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Total Warhammer 2: Settra rear end down you filthy elves.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:03
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Blooming Brilliant posted:The best title. Yeah, it's gotta be this one.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:13
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Grumio posted:Total War Warhammer II: A Reptile dysfunction or Ze Pollack posted:Total Warhammer 2: 410,757,864,530 Dead Elves
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Sep 25, 2017 20:17
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With the release coming up I finally got around to picking up a copy. Not sure why GMG aren't a sega approved partner any more but I managed to pick it up for £32.58 from 2game.com with the code ISTHEREANYDEAL.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:18
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Total War: Warhammer 2: There are no Skaven here, Yes yes. Do not look at the rat behind the curtain, No no. I just want to make some sorta joke about there being no Skaven (even though there are) okay? I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:22
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William Bear posted:One of my favorite quotes from the lore is, "The Skaven care little for the past, and do not keep any recorded history. For a Skaven, there are only two times worth thinking about : right now, when they are not ruling the world, and very soon, when they will be."
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Sep 25, 2017 20:27
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Well, that's 1k hours in TW1. Farewell, you magnificent specimen of a Total War game. Gonna be fun to play Empire and Dwarfs again once Mortal Empires rolls out and kill some rats.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:12
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rockopete posted:Will heroes naturally gain xp by sitting in provinces now? Deploying used to give you a chunk but now that's gone. Well you also earn that passive exp when sitting in armies in both games, so presumably you can get it by just sticking them in the garrison. It was kind of silly in game 1 to have your wizards were too busy overseeing construction and micromanaging taxes to bother throwing some fireballs at the besieging beastmen hordes unless you had a lord nearby to tell them to get off his their lazy rear end and actually fight instead standing around looking pretty while Altdorf burned.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:18
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Heroes in armies are significantly more fun than campaign map heroes (both using them and having the AI use them against you) so it's a good change overall.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:21
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toasterwarrior posted:Well, that's 1k hours in TW1. Farewell, you magnificent specimen of a Total War game. I'm really hoping there ends up being Skaven involvement in Karak Eight Peaks. Maybe the Skaven start out with it but face constant attacks by the Dwarfs and Greenskins.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:22
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Pendent posted:I'm really hoping there ends up being Skaven involvement in Karak Eight Peaks. Maybe the Skaven start out with it but face constant attacks by the Dwarfs and Greenskins. I'm not sure if it will be on the map when Mortal Empires launches but the Skavenblight siege map is already in the game files and can be selected for custom battles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C1O_3dWWoY
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Sep 25, 2017 21:26
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Vorpal Cat posted:Well you also earn that passive exp when sitting in armies in both games, so presumably you can get it by just sticking them in the garrison. This is something I always found really hilarious. You have a dude that is a walking WMD but in much of the WH1 Grand Campaign they spend their days doing tax audits on peasants and busting crooked contractors for graft.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:31
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Pendent posted:I'm really hoping there ends up being Skaven involvement in Karak Eight Peaks. Maybe the Skaven start out with it but face constant attacks by the Dwarfs and Greenskins. I've mentioned upthread a lot of fun ways to make Karak 8 Peaks a 3-way fight, with that being the main goal of the respective clans/factions but even as other factions you'll see the AI tussling over it the whole game. Another thing they could do that would also be interested for hotly contested areas like that is to have K8P under different control depending on the faction you are currently playing as. So like this: Dwarves: K8P controlled by Clan Mors Greenskins: Controlled by Munitious Gits Skaven: Controlled by Dwarves
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Sep 25, 2017 21:36
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ChickenWing posted:Total War: Warhammer II : Rats, Rats, We're The Rats Is the Great Horned Rat the giant rat that makes all of the rules?
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Sep 25, 2017 21:40
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Surprise Giraffe posted:Not hearing good things about dragons As in from the reviews/streams? I have not followed the dragon changes (except they now get breath attack spells) too closely but it seems like in every stream people expect to fly their dragon solo into a huge mob and kill everything (which is very dragon like). But they are just like any other huge monster, if they go into a huge mob by themselves they will get chopped up good because their model is so huge that tons of bad dudes get hits on them.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:51
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I mean, are dragons in the table top game, and if so how do they compare to the TW dragons? Or are people pulling expectations from thin air based on nothing? I am actually struggling to think of a popular fantasy thing where dragons haven't been show to be very vulnerable to certain kinds of basic attacks. Dragons being killable is like fantasy basics.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:56
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I know that there are a few spells that are anti-flyer, but something has me curious: Are there any stock units that are anti-flyer? It would be an interesting specialization (I've seen it in mods in WH:TW1). It would also make a lot of sense to have an air supremacy unit (or variant) that could catch other flyers in melee in midair which prevents them from dive bombing your ground units. A flying unit that was anti-large, anti-flyer would be an interesting counter because as far as I'm aware all flyers count as 'large' so basically this type of unit would be very powerful at engaging other air units in midair and you could send it out as an 'interceptor'. For races that have flyers but little to no ranged units (like Vampire counts) it would also be a really powerful asset as well.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:57
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Stephen9001 posted:Since we like complaining about grogs here, I found this video of Arch Warhammer talking to Sargon of Akkad, and it turns out Sargon is one of those guys who think Medieval 2 is the best. Specifically with the Stainless Steel mod, whatever that is, I'm a guy who got in this series with Warhammer, and I as such know very little about previous games. Oh and he complains about them "chasing the mythical "wider audience"". Things to legitimately miss about Medieval 2 and Shogun 2. 1) A few diplomacy options that were removed like gift settlement/request that an army be removed from your territory. 2) More than 2 people in a multiplayer campaign 3) goofier trait combinations with more traits available. 4) the game being more modifiable. 5) Formations That's really about it. While I'd really like all those things back it is not worth a huge amount of the bullshit that comes with Medieval 2's janky rear end design. So as expected Sargon is a total idiot.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:59
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Most dragons could be killed by a single cannon ball in tabletop (if you got lucky), just like most other monsters. They were very expensive and rarely seen. Although monstrous mounts in general were rarely used in 8th edition tabletop I believe, due to poor balancing. Dragons are very frustrating in TW1. They get stunned by archery and maybe melee hits. They frequently make slow 180° turns to attack one infantry guy behind them, often just before you wanted to click on them to head in the opposite direction. And they have a huge hitbox. You definitely can't use them like griffons, which are far more nimble and responsive (and just better).
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Sep 25, 2017 21:59
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I mean, catbird beats lizard, that's just science.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:00
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In tabletop, the problem with dragons and other similar big monsters/mounts was not their stats but their cost, their cost was so high that they rarely were worth the investment (at least before 8th editon).
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Sep 25, 2017 22:02
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ChickenWing posted:Total War: Warhammer II : Rats, Rats, We're The Rats
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Sep 25, 2017 22:06
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Terrible Opinions posted:Things to legitimately miss about Medieval 2 and Shogun 2. There was a formations mod I had a while back, not sure if it got updated since Norscans came out. But it was pretty fun and demonstrated that with mods you could still have that element to the game. The formations themselves were also unique to factions; more "disciplined" armies got a wider variety of formation options, and the bonuses and physical shapes were based on the faction's own strengths. You know how Empire troops say "Form a ring of steel!" Well there was a 'ring of steel' formation that was literally a box. This meant you could have a spear unit that maintained its charge resist vs large in every direction, or could protect a small, vulnerable unit like a Luminark. Dwarves got formations that made them more tanky, Vampire Counts got a limited number of the Empire's options, and Greenskins got a 'bumrush em' type formation that favored charging. The AI would also be pretty good about using them as well, and it definitely added another level of depth to the campaign.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:08
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An interesting thing is that grognards complain about things like Empire pike infantry being so split from one another and not forming a massive wall but that spacing is actually the most realistic representation of a pike wall that total war has ever done. Even the legions didn't close in the way they do in games because it was so tight you could barely move or fight. Either way, it's important we settle the score before TW2 comes out and vote on this very important poll https://strawpoll.com/95zww67a
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Sep 25, 2017 22:11
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ToastyPotato posted:I mean, are dragons in the table top game, and if so how do they compare to the TW dragons? Or are people pulling expectations from thin air based on nothing? I am actually struggling to think of a popular fantasy thing where dragons haven't been show to be very vulnerable to certain kinds of basic attacks. Dragons being killable is like fantasy basics. the TW dragons are both significantly better looking and significantly more usable, in that they are usable, at all, at any point. fluffwise the only dragons the elves can wake up any more are the weedy-rear end runts of dragonkind and hoo boy did it show on the tabletop. dragons were outperformed both cost-for-cost and hitpoint-for-hitpoint by an equal mass of great eagles. great eagles were not good. and a dragon stuck in melee with any other monstrous creature was a dragon that was dead.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:13
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Mukip posted:Most dragons could be killed by a single cannon ball in tabletop (if you got lucky), just like most other monsters. They were very expensive and rarely seen. Although monstrous mounts in general were rarely used in 8th edition tabletop I believe, due to poor balancing. I expect they'll get buffed and improved over time. I'm not too worried about High Elves being the weakest faction at launch. It's not like they're dwarves where their problem is a fundamental one.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:13
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Mans posted:
I don't know whether this poll is brutally cunning or cunningly brutal 
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Sep 25, 2017 22:16
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Sprechensiesexy posted:I don't know whether this poll is brutally cunning or cunningly brutal It's both! The question is which choice is which.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:29
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ToastyPotato posted:I mean, are dragons in the table top game, and if so how do they compare to the TW dragons? Or are people pulling expectations from thin air based on nothing? I am actually struggling to think of a popular fantasy thing where dragons haven't been show to be very vulnerable to certain kinds of basic attacks. Dragons being killable is like fantasy basics. Generally speaking dragons and other huge mounts were too much of a points investment for too little payoff, since cannons would wreck their day. But high elves had the best dragon, and probably the single strongest monstrous mount for any faction in the Star Dragon. The other thing about dragons was that people often didn't use them correctly: they'd charge them head-on into a massive block of infantry and get bogged down for the rest of the game. The way to use them was to use their flight to flank charge while your main line was engaged, or to outmaneuver and charge small elite units.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:34
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:Generally speaking dragons and other huge mounts were too much of a points investment for too little payoff, since cannons would wreck their day. But high elves had the best dragon, and probably the single strongest monstrous mount for any faction in the Star Dragon. That's what I figured. Having a flying unit with good charge bonus gives you a lot of initiative in a battle. You can pick the best place to come in and are less likely to get stuffed up along the way compared to ground monstrous infantry or cavalry. I figure the most practical way in the Total War game to use such units is to fly over the scrum, wheel around and charge a dangerous enemy unit from behind .
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Sep 25, 2017 22:37
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On the vein of monstrous units, I'm pretty excited for the massively tank dinosaurs just holding a Frontline. Imagine a bastilodon vs non ap infantry. It's immortal.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:41
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is the preload 25.5 gb for y'all too?
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Sep 25, 2017 22:47
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Davincie posted:is the preload 25.5 gb for y'all too? It uncompresses to 38gb. CA has said that the 60gb min specs are supposed to include DLC and such, not just the base game.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:49
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I didn't play 8th edition but did read the occasional discussions about the meta and I remember that Chaos and Vampire Lords specifically rode dragons because it turned them into avatars of unholy slaughter while dragon mounts were lackluster for other factions. I also remember them discussing the difference betweened Dragoned up Chaos Lords and Vampire Lords and it pretty much boiled down to: -The Chaos Lord could kill absolutely anything in close combat but couldn't chew through a tarpit unit -The Vampire Lord could lawnmower his way through any amount of models but had to be careful around larger monsters that could fight big units better than he could
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Sep 25, 2017 22:54
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Terrible Opinions posted:Things to legitimately miss about Medieval 2 and Shogun 2. This hasn't really ever been a thing. In every game where multiplayer campaign was an actual feature (Napoleon onward for head-to-head. Shogun 2 onward for co-op) it was only available for two players. You could fake a multiplayer campaign in Medieval 2 with as many players as you could fit, but it was done hotseat style where each person took turns playing a single save file. There were never actually two people playing at the same time. I agree with the rest of your points. I almost never actually used formations, but it was nice to have the option from time to time. Edit: I'm pretty sure the real reason you didn't see big units all that much in the Tabletop was because you had to spend real-rear end money for everything you wanted to field and they were expensive even by GW pricing standards. New Butt Order fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 22:58
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I lust for 8 goons being able to royal rumble in a massive monster gangbang that results in billions of casualties, FPS destroying furballs, and no winners, only losers 
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Sep 25, 2017 23:01
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Another problem with monsters in TT was that cannon-style artillery was way too accurate. It never deviated "sideways" when fired at a target, you chose a spot for it to land and then rolled to see how many inches further it could land and then how far it bounced. This meant there was some optimal distance to pick (8 inches or so) and about 80% of your shots should be bang on target. Thankfully things are much, much better now and monsters are some of the funnest units to use.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:15
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I never really liked formations since they just seemed like busywork to me. Better make sure to tell my spearmen to brace for the cavalry impact because god knows that they are too dumb to figure it out themselves! I'm personally happy that they decided to remove a lot of activateable stuff on units and instead added more abilities and spells to characters since it feels more meaningful to me.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:15
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Kainser posted:I never really liked formations since they just seemed like busywork to me. Better make sure to tell my spearmen to brace for the cavalry impact because god knows that they are too dumb to figure it out themselves! Yeah, some of them were definitely superfluous and should have happened automatically, like telling your spearmen to brace for a charge (I think in Rome 2 you could actually just set that to auto-cast so what was even the point of making it an option?) but stuff like putting your pikes into a square, cavalry into wedge, or legions into testudo all had a decent mix of advantages and disadvantages that made them legitimate (if rarely used) tactical options. In particular, putting your Eastern Spearmen into square formation and having them block up city streets let them punch way above their weight class during Rome 2 city defenses. Since the TW design philosophy for the past decade or so seems to be centered around simplifying the campaign map as much as possible so it can simply be a vehicle for cool battles, it's a feature worth bringing back to give you more cool battle options. New Butt Order fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 23:31
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LordAbaddon posted:I didn't play 8th edition but did read the occasional discussions about the meta and I remember that Chaos and Vampire Lords specifically rode dragons because it turned them into avatars of unholy slaughter while dragon mounts were lackluster for other factions. Pretty much, yeah. By default, both of them are quite evenly matched, but they have access to different kinds of special abilities and items. In particular, the vampires can get an ability that grants them an additional free instant attack every time they wound an enemy. Now against an enemy lord that's only of middling effectiveness, since each individual attack has only a fairly small chance to cause a wound. But against some poor rank-and-file swordsman each attack is very likely to cause a kill, so if you get a good rolling streak your Vampire Lord will suddenly turn into an outright blender that can easily kill a dozen guys (extending even to fairly elite line units like Greatswords or knights) or more in a single round. By comparison, even a buffed-to-hell Chaos Lord would generally only manage to kill five dudes per round, tops. But in return you could stack a whole bunch of Chaos bullshit to make him the next best thing to invulnerable in melee combat, and able to paste pretty much any one individual enemy you point him at in one round.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:38
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