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Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Cybernetic Crumb

Saint Sputnik posted:

Merged Patches make sure mods that add items to leveled lists don't overwrite each other

AWKCR handles the leveled lists too

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Saint Sputnik
Mar 31, 2007

Tyrannosaurs in P-51 Volkswagens!

Azhais posted:

AWKCR handles the leveled lists too

Are we thinking of the same thing? I'm looking at ArmorKeywords.esm in xEdit and leveled lists are nowhere in here, or mentioned on the mod's page or in its comments thread. What am I missing?

Pound_Coin
Feb 5, 2004




Anyone know how to remove obsolete merged patches from NMM's list? I've got a couple of old ones that I cant seem to remove from the plugins list.

Babe Magnet
Jun 1, 2008


I should probably make a merged patch. Probably why I haven't seen any chainsaws around.

TerminalSaint
Apr 20, 2007

Where must we go...

we who wander this Wasteland in search of our better selves?


College Slice

Having spent some time in art school, where being critiqued by your entire class on an almost daily basis is part of the curriculum, I can never get enough of primadonna modders losing their poo poo over even the most mild criticism.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

Cat Army


The problem with merged patches For the xbox is that there's no way to, well, actually make the dang thing. There's no way for end users to create merged patches themselves, and given the lack of FOMOD support there's no way to provide different installation options that are compatible by default.

Talkie Toaster
Jan 23, 2006
May contain carcinogens

Azhais posted:

Just refuse to use any weapon mod that doesn't use armor and weapon keywords expanded
That's not what keyword mods do.

You can add items to leveled lists via a super simple Papyrus script. Anyone know if someone's made a resource one yet? If not, I'll whip one up when I have time.

Crocoswine
Aug 20, 2010



So, in the case of "stolen" mods (a concept I still find dubious, considering Bethesda 100% owns any mod created for their games, end of story,) that are put up for the xbox, doesn't that mean that the modder could just... put them up themselves? Meaning that the only reason they don't is some childish disdain towards console users and/or bethesda? I mean, if they don't want to properly support an xbox release they could just put it up as is and say that, "hey, I'm not going to fix any issues that might pop up for this version, but here it is."

I feel like even if someone offered to port the mod over and make it properly console friendly, giving full credit to the original modder, they'd still refuse, which is ridiculous.

Dunno-Lars
Apr 7, 2011




The Iron Rose posted:

The problem with merged patches For the xbox is that there's no way to, well, actually make the dang thing. There's no way for end users to create merged patches themselves, and given the lack of FOMOD support there's no way to provide different installation options that are compatible by default.

You would have to get someone on PC to get the exact same mods, same versions and all, get them to make a merged patch and upload it, then download that on the Xbone.

I find it really weird that Bethesda haven't figured out a solution to stuff overwriting before they added console modding. Or is it possible that it is actually working properly there, but they are not telling?

Doorknob Slobber
Sep 10, 2006





The fact that you can ban someone from downloading or even viewing your mod on nexus is the funniest thing. You can't even negatively vote on anything as far as I can tell besides commenting that something is broken.

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Cybernetic Crumb

FlyinPingu posted:

So, in the case of "stolen" mods (a concept I still find dubious, considering Bethesda 100% owns any mod created for their games, end of story,) that are put up for the xbox, doesn't that mean that the modder could just... put them up themselves? Meaning that the only reason they don't is some childish disdain towards console users and/or bethesda? I mean, if they don't want to properly support an xbox release they could just put it up as is and say that, "hey, I'm not going to fix any issues that might pop up for this version, but here it is."

I feel like even if someone offered to port the mod over and make it properly console friendly, giving full credit to the original modder, they'd still refuse, which is ridiculous.

Bethesda is basically disclaiming all ownership with the way they're doing conflict resolution.

In a lot of cases the real mod and the fake mod(s) are both on there.

Deified Data
Nov 3, 2015



Fun Shoe

This isn't meant to sound catty, but I actually want to know: does Bethesda actually benefit from having a system in place in which mod authors can petition to have pirated mods removed? Why should they care?

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Hence, nothing remains except our regrets.

Lipstick Apathy

Deified Data posted:

This isn't meant to sound catty, but I actually want to know: does Bethesda actually benefit from having a system in place in which mod authors can petition to have pirated mods removed? Why should they care?

Because there are many mod authors who are violently angry at them over it and being very loud about it. The ol "Hoard of angry customers" thing.

Zelmel
Sep 17, 2004

O brain new world, that has such ganglia in't!


Deified Data posted:

This isn't meant to sound catty, but I actually want to know: does Bethesda actually benefit from having a system in place in which mod authors can petition to have pirated mods removed? Why should they care?

I doubt they do care, and they certainly shouldn't, as the whole half-baked console mod thing is probably going to collapse just like the paid mod thing did for skyrim.

Richard Bong
Dec 11, 2008


Dunno-Lars posted:

You would have to get someone on PC to get the exact same mods, same versions and all, get them to make a merged patch and upload it, then download that on the Xbone.

This is the only way I could see this working also.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


Dunno-Lars posted:

I find it really weird that Bethesda haven't figured out a solution to stuff overwriting before they added console modding. Or is it possible that it is actually working properly there, but they are not telling?
They didn't bother figuring out such a solution when they introduced Steam Workshop to Skyrim and tried their best to present modding as a one-click-and-you're-done sort of thing.
I sometimes can't help but think that Bethesda doesn't really understand how modding their own games works.

Magmarashi
May 20, 2009

PKWAFFLES


Zelmel posted:

I doubt they do care, and they certainly shouldn't, as the whole half-baked console mod thing is probably going to collapse just like the paid mod thing did for skyrim.

How do you figure that?

Saint Sputnik
Mar 31, 2007

Tyrannosaurs in P-51 Volkswagens!

Finished my perk overhaul and published it, try it out and tell me what you think

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/14997/

Deified Data
Nov 3, 2015



Fun Shoe

I expect console mod support to always be sort of half baked but I doubt it's going anywhere any time soon.

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

Everything I post is dumb and wrong


I have finally managed to get Fallout 4 running, thanks to a low res texture mod. As I was browsing for performance mods I found a wonderful gem Any Mod Any Weapon. I installed it (along with a few other crafting improvements) for my first play through I have to say, this is how the vanilla game should work. I love making these convoluted weapons! Laser Rifer with an automatic receiver? Yes please! I'll take a flamethrower nozzle on there too, thanks.

It's fairly unbalanced, but its too fun

Talkie Toaster
Jan 23, 2006
May contain carcinogens

Deified Data posted:

This isn't meant to sound catty, but I actually want to know: does Bethesda actually benefit from having a system in place in which mod authors can petition to have pirated mods removed? Why should they care?
The fact they've setup at DMCA takedown notice for pirated mods suggests they believe there's a legal aspect to it. Nobody wants a lawsuit kicking off.

Plus pissing off modders is bad for their strategy of 'use mods as a selling point'- people may stop making them. Sure, getting a mod pirated is largely inconsequential, but still, there's plenty of other hobbies you can have where you don't have to deal with these annoyances. Why force yourself to ignore them when you could just do something else for fun?

Dunno-Lars
Apr 7, 2011




Rutibex posted:

I have finally managed to get Fallout 4 running, thanks to a low res texture mod. As I was browsing for performance mods I found a wonderful gem Any Mod Any Weapon. I installed it (along with a few other crafting improvements) for my first play through I have to say, this is how the vanilla game should work. I love making these convoluted weapons! Laser Rifer with an automatic receiver? Yes please! I'll take a flamethrower nozzle on there too, thanks.

It's fairly unbalanced, but its too fun

Do note that EVERYONE will get that benefit. So you might meet raiders with automatic fatman launchers, or whatever crazy combination you can imagine. Turning it on, modding your weapons, then turning it off is recommended.

Crocoswine
Aug 20, 2010



Talkie Toaster posted:

The fact they've setup at DMCA takedown notice for pirated mods suggests they believe there's a legal aspect to it. Nobody wants a lawsuit kicking off.

Plus pissing off modders is bad for their strategy of 'use mods as a selling point'- people may stop making them. Sure, getting a mod pirated is largely inconsequential, but still, there's plenty of other hobbies you can have where you don't have to deal with these annoyances. Why force yourself to ignore them when you could just do something else for fun?

as long as there are nexus users to endlessly fellate them they'll never stop modding. Even the modders who take their mods down in protest against big mean ol' bethesda will throw them back up when they start to miss having praise heaped upon them by mindless internet strangers

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Hence, nothing remains except our regrets.

Lipstick Apathy

FlyinPingu posted:

as long as there are nexus users to endlessly fellate them they'll never stop modding. Even the modders who take their mods down in protest against big mean ol' bethesda will throw them back up when they start to miss having praise heaped upon them by mindless internet strangers

Not many actually do this. I mean, I don't suppose you've ever had to deal with mod users? loving no amount of praise is worth that bullshit if it's why you do it. It's why a lot of modders just lose their poo poo. For every bit of praise, there's like a thousand assholes demanding you cater to them or delivering the world's most useless "bug reports" or criticism that amounts to "I don't like it."

NOT a lot of people just stop to comment "Hey, I like it." They comment if they also have something else to say, like a request or a bug. That poo poo'll drive you to drink if you actually care about comments.

vvvv

Midnight Voyager fucked around with this message at Jun 12, 2016 around 08:05

Talkie Toaster
Jan 23, 2006
May contain carcinogens

FlyinPingu posted:

as long as there are nexus users to endlessly fellate them they'll never stop modding. Even the modders who take their mods down in protest against big mean ol' bethesda will throw them back up when they start to miss having praise heaped upon them by mindless internet strangers
There's definitely a lot of modders who do it for praise, but there's an equally large contingent like me who're self-motivated. I already regularly burn out on modding dealing with the idiots on Nexus, having to deal with bug reports from old & broken copies of my mod uploaded by someone else would just be too much.

Sintax
Aug 2, 2002

Let's drink until our hearts stop.

Weapons mods are up in the first post! Or is it the 5th post? Get your rear end to the first page for the new weapons section!

Plotac 75
Aug 8, 2007
Mysteries of the ancient lizardman sealed by ancient, mysterious lizard magicks lost in the mysterious realm of ancient lizardmen from ages far, far ago.

Okay that's really goddamn cool.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


Good news BOS/Tactics fans! the Fallout Tactics Midwestern BOS power armor is back on the Nexus!

Oh poo poo, now that is how you do a weapons themed OP post. It needs to be a little bit better lit but loving love everything else including the fact you can click on gun, get URL to mod. Great work.

MinorRed
Jul 27, 2011


For those of you looking for the Modern Firearms mod, it's back up on Bethesda.net. Still off nexus, though.

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

Everything I post is dumb and wrong


Dunno-Lars posted:

Do note that EVERYONE will get that benefit. So you might meet raiders with automatic fatman launchers, or whatever crazy combination you can imagine.

This only improves my opinion of the mod.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


Rutibex posted:

This only improves my opinion of the mod.

To be fair, unless you are super high leveled or wearing power armor meeting those guys out of the blue ends up with you being brutally nuked in vanilla so not a big problem either way!

Nevets
Sep 11, 2002

Be they sad or be they well,
I'll make their lives a hell


Magmarashi posted:

How do you figure that?

The Fallout / Eldescrolls PC modding community is so mature at this point, with incredible complex and detailed mods; and there are so many restrictions on what can't be done on consoles (both technically and in regard to content) that to the layman the comparison between the two invites the conclusion that Bethesda/Microsoft/Sony are doing a half-assed job. They see their $300 console running Battlefield or whatever just as well as their neighbor's $1000 PC and expect that it should be able to do all the same things. Bethesda said "mods for consoles" and nobody read between the lines which said: 90% of the cool stuff you see in other mods won't work.

Rationally, some mods on consoles are better than none, but psychologically if you are expecting something great and receive something only OK the disappointment can feel worse than just being told "it's never going to happen". I think the backlash from console users angry about not getting the same mods as on pc will discourage pc modders from adapting their mods to work on consoles. And since there is no way to have console only mod creators, you have two different groups: pc modders being asked to do extra work, and console players that are increasingly being perceived as ignorant and entitled.

Svanja
Sep 19, 2009


Has anyone used the Man's Best Friend mod? I'm so tempted to use it in my survival run. I miss my dog, but I also want the perks from some of the companions (like Codsworth and Piper).

Dr Snofeld
Apr 30, 2009


Svanja posted:

Has anyone used the Man's Best Friend mod? I'm so tempted to use it in my survival run. I miss my dog, but I also want the perks from some of the companions (like Codsworth and Piper).

I haven't had any problems with it so far. There's even a voiced reference to you having a companion and a dog in Vault 81.

KiddieGrinder
Nov 15, 2005

HELP ME

You should be able to choose perks for your companion(s) too.

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

Everything I post is dumb and wrong


Dr Snofeld posted:

I haven't had any problems with it so far. There's even a voiced reference to you having a companion and a dog in Vault 81.

I also have the mod that lets me have my Dog and a companion. They really should rename him to "Mule" instead of Dog though

Saint Sputnik
Mar 31, 2007

Tyrannosaurs in P-51 Volkswagens!

FlyinPingu posted:

as long as there are nexus users to endlessly fellate them they'll never stop modding. Even the modders who take their mods down in protest against big mean ol' bethesda will throw them back up when they start to miss having praise heaped upon them by mindless internet strangers

Reminds me, I noticed that the New Vegas Interiors guy took his stuff down. It's not even the FO4 Nexus site for crissake

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.


Oven Wrangler

Talkie Toaster posted:

The fact they've setup at DMCA takedown notice for pirated mods suggests they believe there's a legal aspect to it. Nobody wants a lawsuit kicking off.

Plus pissing off modders is bad for their strategy of 'use mods as a selling point'- people may stop making them. Sure, getting a mod pirated is largely inconsequential, but still, there's plenty of other hobbies you can have where you don't have to deal with these annoyances. Why force yourself to ignore them when you could just do something else for fun?

(cross posting this from the Skyrim thread)

How DMCAs work is like this:

Someone (anyone regardless of who it is) files a DMCA takedown request. The host forwards it on to you, then response to this is to file a counter-DMCA and then send that to the host. The host then sends that to the person that filed the DMCA takedown and then they have to serve papers to you and take you to court.
DMCAs in the wild start and end with the request portion right at the beginning mostly because most free hosting solutions (file hosts, YouTube) assume all DMCAs are legit and cuts access to whatever is being DCMA'd immediately which then your counter-DMCA will take some amount of days to sit with no response from the person that filed the original DMCA and then the media is accessible once more. If you are paying for your hosting (like you host your own website and it gets DMCA'd) your hosting provider will get DMCA'd and forward it on to you and give you a time limit of some number of days to respond before they kill access to whatever was DMCA'd. Plenty of time to file a counter-DMCA and send that off which your host then sends to the DMCA-er and then dick-all happens because their DMCA takedown request is a copy/paste job from a google search just like your counter-DMCA is a copy/paste job from Google but at least you got rid of most of the 'this is obviously a template' bits unlike the scrublord that filed the DMCA in the first place.

Bascially Bethesda doing it this way is a very standard way of doing things especially because this mod hosting stuff is free. Just because you send off a DMCA takedown notification on a mod on their platform doesn't grant you any ownership beyond the standard stuff you get from just creating a thing in the first place, the proof part comes when you have to serve papers and go to court. Bethesda is doing the very standard Cover Your Own rear end way of doing things in case someone uploads models and textures from another game that is owned by a business that has a legal team and is very keen on protecting their trademarks. I'm also going to assume that since anyone can request a DMCA on anything (because there are zero checks) and Bethesda will simply get a request, go 'welp' and nuke access to the file right away. Protects them just in case the DMCA is real and absolves them of any guilt or responsibility.

That said, the draw of modding Bethesda games is something they've done a good job in building inherently into the system. It will take a generation or two for them to kill modding in their games from a ~emotional~ sort of view and even then I don't think they could stop people from doing it. Something with how Bethesda makes their open world games makes it a wicked sweet platform to mod into (similar to Minecraft). Bethesda doesn't give a hot poo poo about modders themselves, just the content. Today's hot modder will be forgotten immediately as soon as some other modder gets more popular, you don't have to coddle the egos of people like Mr. High-Budget polygon. You can laugh that guy out of the community and he can pout and whine and ban everyone's access to his files and someone else will come along and do a mod better and with less ego than that guy soon enough. Then, nobody will even remember that guy to begin with.

Every modder is replaceable, they aren't some sort of rare and unique resource that needs to be protected, they are just players that wanted to do a thing in their game and decided to do it and as long as you have players and you have the tools there will be mods and modders, you can tell ego-blow hards to get bent its ok.

Kimsemus
Dec 4, 2013

A peaceful land, a quiet people. That has always been my rule.


Toilet Rascal

In the long run, Bethesda is doing the smart thing by being as aloof and indifferent as possible regarding mods being stolen.

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Otacon
Aug 13, 2002



So some new Wastelands Contraption DLC is being mentioned on Reddit, anyone have any news?

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