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Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



If dongsbot will be nice to me I will play.

Will you be nice to me, dongsbot???

e: also if AR will let me since i bailed on his Ramen game. I won't bail this time!

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Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I, too, in the spirit of Max, will attempt to be very positive but analytical in this game~

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Yay for actual d1 content. I think there's some merit to both arguments. On one hand we keep our numbers filled meaning that it extends the number of players scum would have to douse and ignite to win, on the other we get flip information and narrow the suspicion list.

I'll await others to weigh in on it.

Scum post.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

As of right now I don't want to bark up the wrong tree and am stumped as is usual for day 1 play. The mechanics discussion seems a bit heavy handed, but not warrantless. I just don't want the game to devolve into that. I'll be releafed if we get scum today.

AA sure is posting a shitton of nothing, what is this

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



There's no way Adahn is scum. He comes in with a controversial idea and is not only latching on to it to the death he's also considering other points of view and actually engaging with people. This is not a scum mindset, and I don't even see scum coming in and dropping this suggestion. IF they were to do that, I think they would have shrugged and backed off when everyone starts breaking it apart. Adahn did none of this.

I want to give Max the benefit of the doubt but I do not like this post:

Max posted:

You seem to be approaching this as if the person that gets lunched will be a completely random decision. That's not the case. A big part of this game, and this setup in particular, is dissecting what people say. Dongs was rude before, but they had a point. No lunching day 1 and 2 gives scum two free primed targets, or even a free kill, before they ever have to worry about getting lunched.

It's sort of suspicious that you can't see that, but I don't know how new a player you are.

Mafia dad's and then throws some casual shade on to Adahn without committing to it fully.

I also don't like dongs coming in and being mean-pig about things, because that was a scumtell for him before. Let me look at a few things fast.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Adahn1986 posted:

If Ferngully douses incorrectly N1 and N2, yes.

But D3 it puts us in an interesting situation. The arsonists won't want to lynch the people they've primed, even if Ferngully saved them.

Town also has 4 potentially useful lynches, because lynching either arsonist or either primed townie is "good" in that it slows scum.

The 'strategy' makes use of our power role. If we get lucky and she correctly douses a couple townies, the arsonists are boned.

If, however, we play the game with a 'lynch erryday' mentality, we cripple ferngully as we're likely to lynch her, out her, or get her randomly primed.

You guys do make good points though. It's just a question of whether we want to make use of our power role or not.

Like this isn't a scum post at all.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Li Dawny posted:

You're starting to make this less fun with your insistence that your plan is amazing omg guyz how can u not c?

This is odd play from Li. She's spent a few posts attacking Adahn for being condescending and insisting that his plan is sound, but...isn't actually doing anything to say his play is scummy, just that she doesn't like it. But she is throwing hard shade.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Max posted:

But, like . . . that's how mafia is played. Scum gets town to mislynch, town tries to lynch scum. There are PR's that may or may not help.

And I hadn't even thought about what AA said, but it's a good point that lynching now narrows the pool of people that the firefighter would/should protect, increasing the odds of them screwing up scum.

This isn't a good argument that you're making, but I also don't really see scum making this bold of an argument right out of the gate.

Cooling on Max with this.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Why would scum agree that there's any merit to your proposed course of action?

This is an AMAZINGLY STRANGE turnaround question considering AA spent two posts insisting he was contemplating the merits of the idea cause he could see both sides.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Murmur Twin posted:

Regardless of your intent, it comes off as condescending since you're clearly implying that you're considering the game in a more intelligent way than the rest of us.

But I disgress!

##vote Max

This is almost entirely gut but I feel like he's going out of his way to sound like a town player.

Wanna hear more on this from you MMT because I was feeling the same thing but I think I'm wrong. Do you still feel this way?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Adahn, I want you to explain how what you were doing was A. a gambit, and B. How scum would think for a minute that it was a good idea or/at all favorable to them. There seems to be a disconnect in your logic.

I've said it before, you're an intuitive player, but I'm just not following right now.

I don't understand this post.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Yeah, I think AA is scum. Everyone else took a hard line against Adahn from a mafia-theory standpoint and I don't see how AA as an experienced player doesn't make that argument.

Like I'm reading it in retrospect and I'm thinking "Adahn's idea isn't THE WORST THING EVER but it's ignoring the fact that we'd get info from flips, that the firefighter protecting people who don't burn doesn't necessarily confirm anyone when burns happen, etc. etc. etc."

AA doesn't mention any of this, just sits on the fence, admits to sitting on the fence, calls Adahn both town and scum, says he sees merit in the argument, then jumps on this minute point of "wait why would scum come in to agree with you" as if he forgot he soft agreed with him?

The whole thing looks real bad. Combined with a lot of white noise I think he's probably the first scum.

Soft Dongsbot as 2nd scum because of his mean-play scumtell.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I think there's some merit to both arguments. On one hand we keep our numbers filled meaning that it extends the number of players scum would have to douse and ignite to win, on the other we get flip information and narrow the suspicion list.

I'll await others to weigh in on it.

No opinion, waiting for town consensus before chiming in.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I can't rationalize Adahn taking this stance as scum, and hardly hedgy. Just sunmarizing the strat. discussion without all the

Leaf me alone man. I'm just branching out and not letting my self get sapped by all the pseudo mechanics discussion.

Calling Adahn town, excusing yourself from participating in the conversation.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

False, I rode the fence because the two courses suggested both had good points.




Lynching is probably the best course though given stumps being in the game.

Hedging again but falling on the "dunk" side.

THEN SUDDENLY:


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

As of right now I don't want to bark up the wrong tree and am stumped as is usual for day 1 play. The mechanics discussion seems a bit heavy handed, but not warrantless. I just don't want the game to devolve into that. I'll be releafed if we get scum today.

Once again not committing to anything.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

It's a 12.5% chance to douse correctly if we no lynch today, but those odd increase exponentially each lynch. Granted if the firefighter is primed not much can be done long term.

It's not a bad theory, but I think town benefits from lynch with information and narrowing the pool of players to better identify scum and make firefighter more viable.

Hedging again using numbers.

AND THEN:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Why would scum agree that there's any merit to your proposed course of action?

So are you saying here that only town members would come in and agree that there was merit? Can you see how I look at that and say that it's weird that you, the ONLY person who ever outright came down and said there was merit in both sides, would be pushing this line of argumentation?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Also please re-read all of those AA quotes. They literally respond to no one. You can read that as AA fully having a conversation with himself and that's hella weird.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Consider an AA vote here, that would put him at -2 though.

I am going to be gone for a while, don't turbo anyone thanks~

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

This post is riddled with inaccuracies. First, I state I can see both sides of the argument presented by Max and Adahn, but asking why would scum think Adahn's plan was a good idea, in no way contradicts me seeing merit in both presented courses of action.

Second, I definitely take a side and present the odds for a correct dousing to happen if we no lynch and explain how it's more advantageous for us to lynch.

Third, I never call adahn scum. I say I can't possibly rationalize him as scum with his plan because it doesn't seem like something scum would advocate.

That's why I question why he believes they would.

You're being dense and intentionally misconstruing my posts.

I've already responded to most of this in my expansion post with quotes from you. It's odd you ignored that to instead demand I answer these questions which you clearly anchored around the initial post.

I would like to see you do that, because I think I have answered all these questions already.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I'm walking in to therapy then driving home so you gonna be waiting a while

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Only Quid's compelling case is filled with points that don't logically make sense. Like there a several inaccuracies versus what I've actually said and how he interpreted them, and now he's too busy to address them.

I get he's got IRL obligations, but that's lovely to be blatantly wrong and false about something and leave that to stew out there.

At this point, I don't care too much anymore.

Not a good post. Should I not be playing mafia all day because I have something to go do later? This is a bad reason to think I am scummy and you are pushing a narrative that I did this on purpose to avoid your inevitable breaking apart of my points or whatever. Really don't get where you're coming from or why you are so upset I have cased you. Isn't reading as genuine.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



To respond to your points:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

This post is riddled with inaccuracies. First, I state I can see both sides of the argument presented by Max and Adahn, but asking why would scum think Adahn's plan was a good idea, in no way contradicts me seeing merit in both presented courses of action.

quote:

I say I can't possibly rationalize him as scum with his plan because it doesn't seem like something scum would advocate.

I will admit to misunderstanding what you were saying a bit, and perhaps I have a bit of confirmation bias going because if I think you're scum it's automatically scummy for you to be going "Wait why would scum side with you" to excuse yourself from siding with him. But that doesn't mean you FORGOT about it, which was a mis-speak on my part; I think it more likely you are trying to cover your bases now since you, as scum, agreed with him. But you are correct in saying that I was inaccurate in jumping on you for asking this question, I guess? It seems like an odd thing to be basing your entire LOOK AT QUID'S INACCURACIES point around.

quote:

Second, I definitely take a side and present the odds for a correct dousing to happen if we no lynch and explain how it's more advantageous for us to lynch.

From my perspective this is not true and your post history doesn't show this to me. I see you waffling back and forth about what would be the best course of action without committing to anything on it. I don't understand what the point of publicly doing this is instead of just doing it internally and then offering an opinion on it, even one that you offer and ask people for comments on. That's a town mindset. Sitting around going "I dunno, maybe, what do you guys think? Nah I don't know, maybe, don't really want to commit to that. It maybe is scum, but maybe not" etc. is a "must post" scum mindset and I don't like it.

quote:

Third, I never call adahn scum.

If you think he's being disingenuous than you are saying he is acting scummy. Saying "I can't conceive of a town motivation for doing this" is the same as a scum call. And that is what you are pushing for here:

quote:

That's why I question why he believes they would.

So yes, I do think you think Adahn is acting scummy, and I don't see why you are acting like you're not.

quote:

You're being dense and intentionally misconstruing my posts.

Incorrect.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Moatillata posted:

MMT- it looks like you've voted for almost everyone at this point. Town

Uh, what? Why?

quote:

Adahn is town. quidnose makes a compelling case on AA and dongs sure is posting an awful lot. Also, for someone (infin) who's personal crusade is to murder all lurkers there is a good deal of lurking occuring.

In summary: I would vote for AA, dongs, Infinitum or lil d right now.

This is bad too. I agree with people calling this scummy.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Murmur Twin posted:

This case seems suspicious because even though AA wasn't replying to anyone he was clearly engaged in an ongoing conversation about odds/no-lynching. I can't imagine being suspicious of someone simply for not using quotes in their replies.

Quid - are you saying that those AA quotes not being directed at anyone is scummy?

Yes. I don't see a reason for posting all of that without interacting with anyone. He wasn't engaged in a conversation he was sideliney commenting on stuff until maybe he offered the math stuff. He wasn't asking quesitons, he wasn't gauging opinions, he wansn't stirring the pot to see reactions. The entirety of that conversation with himself is incredibly safe and sideliney and that says scum to me.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I am glad you aren't going to be mean to me?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I would like to know why Moat thinks my AA case is a slam dunk beyond a "me too"

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I really love a good cheddar, a good Gouda, and a good blue. There's also a brand called Sonoma Jack that's hella bomb

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Yeah I'd still rather vote AA.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



MMT you know this is like the third game in a row you've had an incorrect scum read on me on D1

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I do that as town or scum. What about my content is saying I am town to you, Max?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



That literally didn't answer my question.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



That answered my question more.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Murmur Twin posted:

How is that you believe that

(a) AA thinks Adahn is acting scummy, and
(b) AA is scum

at the same time? Don't those contradict?

...because people, as scum, will fake opinions on town members in order to get them mis-dunked?

How is this even a question MMT

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



I didn't say you were a slam dunk, in fact I asked whoever it was to explain why THEY were so convinced as to why they thought my case was cut and dry.

What I saw is what I saw and how I interpreted it is based on that. I am not sure about you now AA because I don't think you'd come in hard with THIS IS AN OBVIOUS SETUP as scum, you'd probably just ignore all of this.

MMT's hyper semantics argument seems fake to me. I'm more interested in what she is doing because I do not understand it.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Infinitum can you case Moat?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



##vote Moat

I think Inf's points are solid and I don't like Moat's response. He's not scum hunting, just OMGUSing by saying "that's just your opinion, man, and a scummy one at that" and passing suspicion on to MMT for being absent. Lines up with the pattern Inf thinks he is establishing with him.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Max posted:

I'm happy with Moat or AA today. Kinda feeling AA more, but it's fine.

Why?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Thank you Max. That is what I wanted.

Adahn, why do you think Moat is town?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Adahn1986 posted:

His response to having votes on him was exactly as I'd expect from a tree.

Basically, that if you get lynched, you get tree-stumped and stick around. If it's an act, it's a damned good one.

Can you show me where he did this?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Moatillata posted:



How am I disingenuous? It's like no one is reading my posts. I'm not even super into voting infinitum because tunneling like he is really bad strategy for scum since when I flipped town I don't disappear and I can still contribute.

Also how am I OMGUS?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Oh_My_God_You_Suck

If anything, that's infinitum. I didn't even vote him all I did was call him out.

I understand max wanting to vote me but withholding however quidnose surprises me with his vote. Normally he is more verbose and cases someone. Case in point: AA. However with All the heat he throws on AA he drops it for one post from infinitum? Weird.

Who do you think are scum?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Moatillata posted:

Don't deflect. Why did you drop all your on AA for a single post from infinitum? On someone you haven't even mentioned up until now?

The answer you seek lies in the thread:

Quidnose posted:

I didn't say you were a slam dunk, in fact I asked whoever it was to explain why THEY were so convinced as to why they thought my case was cut and dry.

What I saw is what I saw and how I interpreted it is based on that. I am not sure about you now AA because I don't think you'd come in hard with THIS IS AN OBVIOUS SETUP as scum, you'd probably just ignore all of this.

MMT's hyper semantics argument seems fake to me. I'm more interested in what she is doing because I do not understand it.

I voted you because I liked Inf's case and I didn't like your response, and that's what I said.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Adahn is white knighting Moat pretty hard. He mentions him once before this in passing as town so it's kind of odd he's coming in defending him so far when he admittedly has listed him as "kinda town." He also is not offering an opinion on almost anyone else and it's....kinda weird. Makes me think he might know Moat's alignment.

Also, I'm not sure I buy his "look how cool he is under pressure" argument because personally if that was my actual opinion I would have posted only this:

Moatillata posted:

Max- I know you have the hots for me secretly but I didn't vote anyone.

Lil D - I just wanted to call you out a bit and see your response.

MMT- wanted infinitum and I to weigh in. I did so.

The only thing I am into right now is photosynthesis this is a fact. If lynching me will make you feel better, feel free but all you'll get is a stump.


That's what I found when I went back to look at Moat's history to see what Adahn was even getting at. The rest of that poo poo is hardcore joke phase/joking and I'm not sure why he included it at all - kinda looks like covering of tracks...

##unvote I have to think a bit.

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Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Adahn1986 posted:

It's the emotional aspect that's lacking. He's not emotionally invested in his own lynching (or its prevention).

And I'm not twisting your words, your perception that he is 'defiantly' trying to pursue other lynching possibilities jumps out at me.

Moat is, in all likelihood, a tree. For you to see him as 'defiantly' trying to escape his fate suggests to me that you're emotionally invested in his lynching.

Does a mislynch help you achieve your win condition?

Yyyyyeaaaahhh, I don't like this post very much.

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