|
I've gotta be getting close to the end of SS now. Just finished fire temple. What a loving slog this game is.
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 01:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:24 |
|
|
You know you don't have to play the video game if you don't like it, right?
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 02:08
|
|
|
Waltzing Along posted:I've gotta be getting close to the end of SS now. Just finished fire temple. What a loving slog this game is. Not even close, iirc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
That's the second to last dungeon. You're in the home stretch.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 02:17
|
|
|
Chieves posted:You know you don't have to play the video game if you don't like it, right? I liked every other Zelda game. It's the only one I haven't finished. Also, my complaints don't mean much unless I finish first. Neddy Seagoon posted:Not even close, iirc. Sigh.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 02:17
|
|
|
SS has some great moments and some neat mechanics and visuals, but is pretty sloggy at times.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 18:10
|
|
|
I keep getting the sense that Nintendo said "hey, let's find a way to make people buy a wii motion plus, let's force them to with our big game!" Then they created a bunch of excuses to use it in places where it was totally unnecessary. This is bad game design. Then they didn't have enough QA and left in a bunch of really lovely annoyances. More bad game design. The positives that SS has going for it are far outweighed by the negatives. As such, it is the worst Zelda. By far.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 18:30
|
|
|
You've got it backwards. Once they developed the motion plus, the Zelda team put their work on hold to reincorporate it into their game as much as possible, not to sell the new wiimote but because they wanted the feature. They even included the wiimote with the game which had to really eat into the margins on it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 18:38
|
|
|
I feel like SS controls-hate is basically the Carnival Night Zone barrel for Zelda games. Everyone either got it immediately or hated it forever and neither side gets why the other side even exists.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
Playing through TP for the first time, this is easy to say: Skyward Sword >>> Twilight Princess It's not even close.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 18:59
|
|
|
greatn posted:You've got it backwards. Once they developed the motion plus, the Zelda team put their work on hold to reincorporate it into their game as much as possible, not to sell the new wiimote but because they wanted the feature. They even included the wiimote with the game which had to really eat into the margins on it. That was the $20 more special edition, and not even a Wiimote+ cost $20 to make. Controller margins are huge for companies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 19:02
|
|
|
Huh, i don't remember it costing $20 more. Was that in all regions?
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 19:53
|
|
|
Well yeah, of course the wiimote bundle cost more than the normal version.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
greatn posted:Huh, i don't remember it costing $20 more. Was that in all regions? Pretty sure I paid $60 for the Gold Wii Remote edition in the US. So $10 more than a normal wii game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Ghirahim is the only good thing about Skyward Sword. Does that make it worth the price of entry and myriad other things that bog down the title?  https://zippy.gfycat.com/RapidCorruptDikkops.webm
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 22:48
|
|
Alec Eiffel posted:Playing through TP for the first time, this is easy to say: Agreed.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 22:53
|
|
|
Alec Eiffel posted:Playing through TP for the first time, this is easy to say: It kinda depends on how you define better. The best parts of SS are way better than the best parts of TP, but the worst parts of SS are SO MUCH WORSE than TP.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 22:57
|
|
LanceKing2200 posted:It kinda depends on how you define better. The best parts of SS are way better than the best parts of TP, but the worst parts of SS are SO MUCH WORSE than TP. I think that's also part of it. Worst part of SS are annoying and dumb, but the worst parts of TP are just stretches of dull, which isn't as bad but it's "worse", like a bad dumb movie is better than a decently made but dull movie.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
Emalde posted:Ghirahim is the only good thing about Skyward Sword. Does that make it worth the price of entry and myriad other things that bog down the title? But I still haven't been tempted to replay it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
The Beetle sucked.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 23:05
|
|
|
s.i.r.e. posted:The Beetle sucked. Take that back.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2016 23:07
|
|
|
SS is an insult of a Zelda. TP is just a little aesthetically lacking.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 01:04
|
|
|
s.i.r.e. posted:The Beetle sucked. Takes one to know one
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 01:06
|
|
|
Comrade Fakename posted:SS is an insult of a Zelda. TP is just a little aesthetically lacking. Kakariko Village is a Western movie one horse town
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 01:38
|
|
|
Playing that boss in Skyward Sword 3x sucked. I just finished learning a sumo wrestling mechanic in Twilight Princess and it is poo poo. Jousting that guy on that bridge? Also poo poo mechanics.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 01:40
|
|
|
Hey, I am just making GBS threads on SS. No need to poo poo on TP, as well. Can't we agree that both are inferior Zeldas? TP > SS, of course. This is mainly due to the HD remake, though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 01:43
|
|
|
The Zelda rule is, of course, that as long as I liked it then all of a Zelda's flaws are perfectly fine and justifiable or not really flaws and just people whining. If I dislike it then it's an unforgivably bad game that ruined Zelda forever. See also: "Wind Waker's huge world is awesome because it feels like I'm exploring" vs "Wind Waker's huge empty world is terrible and thank god for the Swift Sail that made it barely tolerable."
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 01:43
|
|
|
WW is the best 3d zelda.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 01:47
|
|
|
Waltzing Along posted:WW is the best 3d zelda. Plenty of people would disagree and in fact enough people complained about large parts of it that the HD remake specifically attempted to fix those parts. Likewise we've had people in the Zelda thread talk about how Link Between Worlds is terrible because there's no fun in exploring dungeons because you get the items beforehand and because every dungeon is locked to a single item there's no clever combination of powers. or people who say Majora's Mask time limit is uncomfortable and sours the entire experience and that it's a cheap rehash of ToOT with a ton of asset reuse. The Majora's Mask time limit thing in particular was significant enough that "this game has a time limit" will continue to draw criticism that compares it to Majora's Mask to this day.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 01:50
|
|
|
i thought that the latest zelda game is always terrible until the next one comes out
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 01:53
|
|
|
Alec Eiffel posted:Kakariko Village is a Western movie one horse town No it isn't. You can't get Epona up the ledge  .
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 01:56
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:The Zelda rule is, of course, that as long as I liked it then all of a Zelda's flaws are perfectly fine and justifiable or not really flaws and just people whining. If I dislike it then it's an unforgivably bad game that ruined Zelda forever. BillmasterCozb posted:i thought that the latest zelda game is always terrible until the next one comes out Yeah this is the actual zelda rule
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 02:01
|
|
|
I think the big question is why Nintendo doesn't do more QA before making these things. Zelda was gold for years. Constantly improving on the initial ones. Then they seem to have hit a wall. It's been approximately 10 years now and only 5 games. 4 of which are plagued with problems and one which is close to the best in the series. The majority of those problems could have been resolved with some simple QA and the developers listening when people said: this isn't fun, it's needless change for the sake of change. It looks like BotW is going to get back on track, but who knows. It's possible that it will be royally hosed up, too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 02:02
|
|
|
Waltzing Along posted:I think the big question is why Nintendo doesn't do more QA before making these things. Zelda was gold for years. Constantly improving on the initial ones. Then they seem to have hit a wall. It's been approximately 10 years now and only 5 games. 4 of which are plagued with problems and one which is close to the best in the series. The majority of those problems could have been resolved with some simple QA and the developers listening when people said: this isn't fun, it's needless change for the sake of change. Because what is bad QA to you isn't inherently bad QA to everyone. Zelda games sell to extremely casual players. An ex-co-worker of mine played SS with his 70 year old mother and they only had time to play every other week and a lot of the problems that plague the hardcore gamer who can't stand being reminded of things is exactly what she was looking for. Zelda games have to design themselves to appeal to both casual players and more hardcore players and finding the right mix of "accessible' and 'not holding your hand' for an audience of literal children to people in their 70s is difficult. You're making the mistake of going "People on the internet said this so it must be a universal opinion' but a major thing, especially with a lot of Nintendo games, is that they're not just going off the internet crowd. It's why something like Carnival Games can sell gangbusters on the Wii despite it being something anyone who posts here would objectively call poo poo. It isn't just Zelda that suffers for this. Mario & Luigi Dream Team for example included an excess of tutorials because they got complaints that the previous game didn't explain enough and was inaccessible because of it. You can argue they overdid it (and Paper Jam tones back the tutorials or makes them optional instead of mandatory) but finding the right mix is hard. We'll see how Breath of the Wild does but I can say just based off what we've seen that it will certainly hold your hand plenty and have a bunch of overly-simplified mechanics that don't work well if you know how to break them. I mean without having played it I will make two predictions: A) The breaking armor/weapon mechanic is too restrictive and a lot of people complain it ruins the game. It makes people afraid to use equipment and items or makes it feel like you have to grind up good gear. B) The breaking armor/weapon mechanic is not restrictive enough and you find ways to trivially circumvent it so it may as well not exist, thus rendering a lot of exploration boring and pointless because you just get more equippable stuff that you never use. A or B will be true with an off chance of A *and* B being true. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Aug 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 02:06
|
|
|
The problem is they didn't do QA. It's obvious they didn't do QA because if they had, they would not have made games harder to play. PH and ST both have worse control schemes than every other handheld Zelda. The funny thing about all those other handheld Zeldas? They used the same controls with additional buttons when they became available. They also didn't suffer from stupid overworld movement decisions. These are obviously bad design decisions that are apparent immediately. As for SS and TP, that's even worse. They are gimmick controls. GC and Wii did not have dual analog sticks so the movement wasn't going to be perfect, of course. But forcing them on the player, rather than having them be an option, was a bad move. That's not my biggest complaint, though. It's the dialog boxes. I am guessing that those add a couple hours of nothing time to a play through. Again, obviously skimped on the QA. My guess is they made sure there were no bugs and that was good enough. They didn't add simple QoL things that would have made the games vastly better.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 02:17
|
|
|
Waltzing Along posted:The problem is they didn't do QA. It's obvious they didn't do QA because if they had, they would not have made games harder to play. Again, you're assuming that "the QA all had the exact same complaints as me and nobody listened." This isn't true of a lot of things. There are plenty of game developers who have talked about QA experiences where the end result is stuff you wouldn't expect or would think is the opposite of 'good design' or what people want. Epic Mickey (to use a bad game as an example) actually toned back a lot of things that people on MBs considered selling points because when they actually tested non-gamers about it they found them genuinely uncomfortable or upsetting. Valve has been pretty open about the fact that a lot of things people consider 'hand-holdy' or 'slow' are necessary so people who are not regular gamers don't get frustrated or lost. Good QA may in fact add things you find annoying like additional tutorials, extra hand-holding or explanations. That doens't mean that some things aren't also forced gimmicks or whatever but the idea that everything is down to "the QA will agree with me that dialogue boxes are bad" is silly. The people who unironically go "Link to the Past has too much talking and dialogue" are not a majority among Zelda players. Finding a correct balance might not mean finding a balance you personally like and for a game which aims at casual players like Zelda will probably mean excessive hand-holding and guidance and a low difficulty level. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Aug 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 02:24
|
|
|
Contrary Opinion but Ghirahim was a lovely villain and a bad character. It's funny to see him dance around and be weird and the first run in with him was excellent but every run in after that dude just flushes himself down the toilet so hard that you just cannot take any scenes with him serious, even when he's trying to be menacing. He does the "Haha I could kill you now but I won't for no reason." thing way too many times. Even when he notices that Link is a Actual Threat he's content to just push Link out of his way harmlessly and assume "hmm this super tenacious warrior of the goddess that's beaten me 3 times in a row will surely give up now that I've pushed him on his back." before leaving. I like Hyrule Warriors because everyone in that game is a loving idiot so superstars Zant and Ghirahim can be as goofy as they want.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 02:36
|
|
|
"Handholding is good for grandma" is a poo poo arguement because a simple toggle to turn off "YOU FOUND A BLUE RUPEE" would be piss simple to add
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 02:49
|
|
Waltzing Along posted:WW is the best 3d zelda. This I can easily agree with.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 02:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:24 |
|
|
ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Contrary Opinion but Ghirahim was a lovely villain and a bad character. this but for groose instead
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 02:55
|
|