Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Looks good. I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of more survival mechanics like setting up camp and cooking but I'm not sold on it yet. That's a mechanic that could be unobtrusive and easy or a complete disaster.

Weapon durability however, is a crime against video games. They better make it like MM where the important stuff stays with you at all times and you only lose the less meaningful stuff. Or, they have it so the weapons stay intact, but you have to craft ammo types and various attachments to enhance the items.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

legitimizing the timeline of Zelda is the worst thing Nintendo has ever done. Who cares when and where it takes place, it looks like a good fun game and that's what matters

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

The Dave posted:

They probably had an intern come up with that timeline and they really don't give a poo poo.

Let's be real, they came up with the timeline as a marketing strategy for Skyward Sword, because then they could market SS as "the first one". Then they threw together the rest of the timeline which ultimately didn't matter because it didn't affect SS's place.

The entire "hero fails" timeline makes no drat sense. Failing isn't a legitimate ending option OoT. If you count the player not finishing the game as "failing" then every single game in the series needs a "failure" timeline split. The entire failure timeline was made as an overcompensating answer to a few games which didn't fit neatly into place.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

HIJK posted:

You "fail" every time you die. The player has the option to come back but Link as a character doesn't. If we're going to have a convoluted time travel mechanic anyway than it makes perfect sense for there to be a "failure" timeline. Just because we don't experience it doesn't mean it didn't happen and it offers an elegant solution to any games that don't immediately fit into the Adult and Child timelines.

Complaining about a third timeline is just as silly as complaining about having an official timeline at all. It's fiction. Roll with it.

If when link dies it creates a timeline, doesn't that still make a failure timeline in every other game? But only OoT has one? There's no logic to it. Because it wasn't thought out, it was thrown together hastily for a marketing push.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Yorkshire Tea posted:

No, if you enjoy the game as it is now you will enjoy it to the end. In my opinion later dungeons get better. The only thing I'd say was disappointing is the final boss.

The final boss was one of that game's better moments. The dungeons are great all around outside the fireshrine which I think is the most forgettable dungeon in the game even though it's fine to play.

It's the overworld sections that suck, outside the desert areas. How many times is the game going to make you scale the loving same mountain the same way

I think 4 times?
First time to earth temple
Hidden realm
Escort quest with the robot
Sneaky version

I hated everything about the stupid mountain section

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Your milage of SS will basically depend on your opinion of the controls. People who loved the game seemed to have no issues, people who didnt seem to hate the controls, there really doesnt seem to be any overlap. The game is so tied into the control scheme its hard to divorce the rest of the experience from it.

But it's worth playing through, even if you dont like the controls, because it's still zelda and it still has those occasional magical moments. The sand sea is still a top 10 zelda area and the dungeons are good.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

I bought Okami and played it for the first time two years ago because I randomly chanced into an old PS2 for free and I found the game for 5 bucks. I'd never played it but always heard it was a Zelda-like game.

Man people complain about the intro to Twilight princess but Okami's beginning is a huge drag and the sidekick is more annoying than FI (though he at least has a personality). However if you can get past the intro and stick with it, that game gets so good by the end. It should be played if you like Zelda. It doesn't have a lot of dungeons but it's really long and satisfying.

Darksiders is a solid Zelda clone, although Darksiders 2 is a little less zelda and a little more diablo

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Yorkshire Tea posted:

Re: Prime chat, the Chozo ghosts get killed in a single super missile, so your annoyance with them varies significantly based on whether you realised that or not.

Yeah but they can still be slighty tough to hit before getting the x-ray visor and they lock the doors which is always stupid. Its a tiny tiny blemish though on probably one of the best games ever made.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

I really hope the world is full of stuff, getting big time empty expanse vibes from the wideshots. Size is only cool to a certain point and then it just feels empty or starts feeling generic with copy/paste points of interest like those reefs in WW.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

mabels big day posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTsgWepH3GY

Grumpy British gamer declares Twilight Princess "not so bad" but still "misses the old Zeldas"

I like what this dude is trying to do but I wish he'd spend more time talking about the dungeons on their own merits instead of obviously just pinning for Zelda 1. Zelda 1 dungeons aren't going to happen again. BotW will have a Zelda 1 overworld but I doubt we'll ever get the mythical puzzle dungeon he's looking for again. He also seems way too in love with "water level/direction" as a dungeon mechanic.

I guess his videos are technically about structure and design but I've always enjoyed dungeons for the other reasons he glosses over. I've always gravitated towards atmosphere and presentation over the puzzles. I don't like it when things are too linear, but I'm far more willing to forgive a more linear dungeon if it's presented well than a super puzzle dungeon that takes me out of it because I have to spend too much time thinking. I actually really like the Water Temple now that i know how to beat it, but the first time through sucked. The best is obviously a good balance.

It's probably why I really like TP's dungeons so much. They aren't hard but they have a great sense of place for me. Snowpeak, Arbiter, City in the Sky, and Temple of Time are all very memorable to me because they had that atmosphere I look for. Snowpeak had the best balance of puzzle/presentation and that's why I think it gets remembered so fondly.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Regy Rusty posted:

While I don't think the lens by which he's analyzing the dungeons is very good, (though I also think the videos have gotten better since the awful Windwaker one) he is explicitly not pining for Zelda 1. Zelda 1's dungeons are so primitive that he didn't even bother doing a video on them. If he's pining for any one game in particular it would be LttP.

Yeah, named the wrong game on instinct since that's the one people are talking about with BoTW. He wants an entire game of LttP dungeons or an entire game of water temples. If they made a Zelda that was actually just 1 gigantic water direction puzzle he'd be in heaven.

That's actually a neat concept thinking about it. Hyrule is in a drought! Ganon, sick of living in the Gerudo desert and hating on those water havers in Hyrule, decides to magically take away the water so that all of hyrule becomes like Gerudo desert. Link has to travel to the source of the water and releases a river, which sends part of the land back into bloom, and he has to heal the entire land by directing water flow via dams & such(Dungeons). The entire map is a puzzle. Then Ganon drowns at the end. Boss Keys BEST GAME EVER

Vv I thought he was lukewarm on LA except for Eagles Tower, which has that ball pillar puzzle going through the whole place and is probably the best example of what he wants

Febreeze fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jan 19, 2017

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

romanowski posted:

before E3 there was a rumor that there would be 4 main dungeons and 100+ smaller dungeons, then E3 happened and they confirmed the 100+ shrines so yeah you right. i think 4 main dungeons and 100 shrines sounds cool and good as long as there's a good variety of shrines

Variety is going to be key. I like the sound of 4 main dungeons and cojaffee is right that there are usually 2 really new, great dungeons per game and others tend to just exist so more time focused on smaller dungeon amounts will probably mean better dungeons

the 100 shrines doesn't ease my mind on the worry that most of the game will be filler though. A map that keeps getting talked about for how massive it is, and there are 4 dungeons? 100 shrines sounds great at first, but how do you make 100+ shrines not feel samey and dull by like shrine 30? How big are these shrines? Like a puzzle room like that one room in TP with the ice blocks? I keep picturing shrines like those random caves you'd find in OoT or MM, little holes in the ground with a single thing of interest, which is cool, but again, 100+?

Im worried most of the game is going to be wandering around looking for something genuinely interesting to do

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Cojawfee posted:

I think Skyward Sword definitely makes better use of items than Twilight Princess even if TP had some more interesting items. Even then, it is rare to use certain items in Skyward Sword. It does do a pretty decent job of reminding the player to use certain items. There was one dungeon where I didn't really know what to do until I got to a room that had dust piles in it. I used the blower thing on them and then realized that it also worked on another type of thing on the ground which helped to open up new areas. While not super realistic, it trains you to look for specific types of things like the hookshot targets, the dust piles, and the whip branches. I also think it's interesting that the bow is the last item you get in the game. The sword and the bow are the two main staples of Zelda games and they end up being first and last in this game.

The items are better utilized in SS but not by much since the game is built around the sword they still feel very underused. I cant tell you how pumped i was to get a whip with those controls, only to barely use it. Same with the bow.

The beetle and the dust buster felt adequately used though. I think the dust buster could be a classic Zelda item with some tweaks to make it easier to use.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

900 Koroks only really becomes a problem if there isn't anything else going on. With 900 of the drat things there is no way they'll be important and there likely won't be a meaningful reward at the end. As long as there are good quests and such, finding koroks along the way might be fun. But there better be good content next to them, otherwise it's worthless filler that they stuck into the game to populate the huge world and give the illusion that the size of the place was worth it.

I want this game to be great but every news story about how "big" it is just makes me feel nervous

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Neddy Seagoon posted:

You're forgetting that this game's been in development since the WiiU released (if not longer), except it's under the supervision of people who actually know what they're doing. It's not like Ubisoft where halfway through someone upstairs might go "hmmm... add THIS! CHANGE THIS! NOW!" and scrawls over half the project brief in crayon.

Also once the basic programming works, a lot of open-world games are just just plug-and-play for pre-existing content (eg; Climbable_Tree_A here, Puzzle_Type_4 trigger there) so cramming in puzzles like that is more busywork than anything once the basic triggers and controls are defined.

A long development time doesn't necessarily equal quality. I mean MM was made in a year and I'd wager MM is probably the most praised game in this thread. We don't know what problems the developers have faced, we don't know how much has changed as the game has gone on (what they've scrapped, how many versions the game has gone through), we don't really know that much to be honest. All we know is that it's YUUUUGE and the things being touted are things that tend to be problematic in other games. Also "cramming in puzzles is more busywork than anything" and "plug and play" isn't exactly inspiring to me, because it sounds exactly like what is making people nervous. Very little careful planning and more "plop here's a camp of dudes, plop here's a korok". It reminds me of WW's ocean which was full of the same poo poo all over the place in slightly different versions. Here's a platform to blow up! Here's TWO platforms! Here's a big octo! Here's another big octo! Here is a reef! Find the other 5 that play the exact same way!

Once you get past a certain size things feel copy/paste because technical limitations and all the time in the world can't fill that space. I loved the poo poo out of Just Cause 2 until about halfway through clearing the game I realized I was blowing up the same radar towers and fuel depos over and over again. I put it down, never picked it back up.

I'm still optimistic and I'll still probably love the game because I'm a sucker, but there is a reason people in here are expressing trepidation about a lot of this. We've been burned before.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Detective No. 27 posted:

Twilight Princess has some pretty good dungeons. Probably cause they were cut from actual good game, Wind Waker.

Did we ever get an idea of which ones got repurposed for TP? The Temple of Time with the statue controlling feels like a really obvious one to me. Maybe the Goron mines because in WW you get the Iron Boots sort of randomly in WW that definitely feels like a cut piece of content was supposed to be there.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

I was worried the overworld would be kind of empty but it looks incredibly dense for how big it is. Game looks incredible. Really does look like a game where you'll spend 90% just wandering around doing random poo poo and have it be fun.

Still worried it will be a little shallow in that that's basically all you do but if they have good characters and some fun sidequests it probably wont matter.

Febreeze fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Feb 26, 2017

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Pharohman777 posted:

I got this for christmas, and the slow realization I had that nintendo turned the Zora into ELVES after Zoras domain was amazing.

Honestly they arent, really. The one thing I always likes about Zelda was that the fantasy races weren't just regular Elves, Dwarves, and orcs, etc. Zelda goes more for races that feel more in tune with the elements. They arent really elves, they are water people. The gorons arent really dwarves, they are rock and earth people. The rito are wind/sky people. Deku are organic plant people. The Gerudo are kind of weird in that they first seemed like just desert hylians but over time now feel more like their own race. There is no real direct analogue between zelda races and typical western fantasy races, just a few similarities.

Which is great because it makes their societies more interesting and sensical by far

Zora's domain was very elvish in design though, more so than before for sure.

Febreeze fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 16, 2018

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

ephex posted:

i've dealt with the elephant titan and now im at moa keet shrine on my way to death mountain /goron city but guardians keep murdering me is there any better way?

Just climb around, you can always climb around. Or do different stuff and get stronger. I think i just climbed up a rock, flew over it, then ran around a corner and it never followed me. The ability to climb poo poo is the best thing this game has.

Or parry them. Once I figured out how to parry them Guardians went from terrifying to fun. How to: Just hold the shield up until the instant you see the blue swirls form around their head before the shot and hit A immediately, should reflect it back. It might take a few blasts to get it right, but once you do, it is extremely satisfying

Febreeze fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jan 21, 2018

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Noctone posted:

One of my favorite things to do is climb up on the lip of a skull and chuck bombs through the eye sockets. I especially love waiting to detonate a bomb until right when one of the Bokoblins winds up to kick it, that poo poo makes me cackle with glee.

This is exactly what I do. Climb up, silently arrow the watchtower guards outside, then just keep dropping bombs in the eyes and laughing as they explode.

I got a bokoblin to go flying out the eyesocket once and it was hilarious but I havent been able to do it again

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Finally went and beat Ganon. Got all the shrines and roughly 300 korok poops. Got all the outfits and mostly upgraded them all. Generally had a great time. At the same time something felt like it was missing, and I kind of went to beat ganon not because I wanted to but more because I felt like I ran out of other stuff to do.

I think it was a step in the right direction but for the next game I want them to MM it, make a smaller hyrule with more in-depth quests and detail to the world. The shrines all felt too short and the divine beasts, while awesome, didnt quite scratch the dungeon itch. This game needed caves to explore.

Enemy variety was bad and I just ignored combat after a certain point. Moldugas ended up being my favorite thing to fight. I wish there were more specialized area foes like that.

The music was really disappointing for a Zelda game. The artistic decison for minimal tunes makes sense but what was there was still lackluster for a series where I normally get extremely into the tunes. The lost woods music was the only track that stood out to me.

It was fun to just wander doing nothing important though, this is the best Zelda for just loving around.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

I played Horizon right before BoTW and I loved it and think it is a good compliment to BoTW. It's the prettiest game world I've ever explored and I found some of the combat more fun than anything in BoTW. The story and lore was also so much better than I expected it to be.

It has it's faults and I don't think I'd buy a console for it but if you do get a PS4 it's a worthy addition to the library.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Man I know people really want to play as Zelda (I would love that too) but the level of hype and discussion about this possibility based on like 30 seconds of cutscene footage is absurd. Most of the cutscenes in BotW were Zelda-centric too. Having a cutscene show more Zelda doesn't mean jack poo poo.

I remember the first BotW cutscene with Link looking more feminine than usual and people went nuts thinking it confirmed a female link, then Nintendo came out like "uh no? We've always seen the genders as a vital part of the story".

Playing as Zelda would rule but I don't see it happening in a mainstream 3d title yet. They might test the waters on a smaller 3ds kinda title or spinoff first and see if it's a selling point.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

The cooking mechanic was a disappointment for me so improving that would be nice. I'd take
-not having to watch the animation everytime, especially if I've already cooked this meal before
-a cookbook to keep track of recipes
-food having more varied effects
-the more elaborate recipes having much more impressive effects
-it would be neat if some meals didn't even need cooking

As it stands in BotW I almost never cooked anything because it took forever and relied on sleeping/mipha to keep me going (plus I just avoided combat after a while since I wasn't a fan of it). Once you learn the Hearty Food trick, you just bake like 20 and then you are set for a long time

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

There’s some really hosed up people out there that skip Hetsu’s dance.

Now this is unacceptable

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Fojar38 posted:

I hope that BotW 2 reworks this game's combat because it is in my opinion by far the game's weakest part.

N64 Zelda had more complex combat tbh

Agreed. I ended up overstocked halfway through with supplies because I never found the combat very engaging outside the weird dumb ways you could mess with enemies (like dropping metal boxes on them)

I just avoided fights altogether after a while

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

The mere idea of regenerating health for enemies in a game where I found most of the enemies boring and tedious already is the main reason I will never even touch Master Mode. I might have considered it otherwise just for a fresh different style of playthrough.

The combat just felt so bland overall. The basic one handed swordplay felt weak but let you use your shield, and I found parrying mildly fun for a while. Two handed weapons took that away and basically just became spin2win machines. Spears were just sorta there. Most of the enemies were a joke in terms of actually being a threat to hit you but once you got to the black variations it felt like they took too many hits to kill and just wasted your time. The combat was absolutely at its best at the start of the game when even the basic enemies are a threat to kill you but they don't have much health.

Almost all the fun I had combat wise in this game was the more gimmicky weapons. Boomerangs, magic rods, bombs, throwing weapons at enemies for the laughs...Actually fighting anything with a sword besides Lynels was dull.

Febreeze fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Jul 17, 2019

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply