The Prisoner: I am not a number, I am a free man!

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Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Hank Morgan posted:

No words could possibly spoil Fall Out.

I was making a joke about Franz Kafka's the Metamorphosis

# ? Oct 9, 2016 23:36

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 23:46

York_M_Chan: Sep 11, 2003

Series Finale - FALL OUT Give it to me, baby!

Let us all remember that McGoohan had to go into hiding because of this episode.
If you are visiting this thread for the first time and have not seen the final episode, do not continue reading!

"He has gloriously vindicated the right of the individual to be individual." - I think this is one of the most important line of the whole series. Being an individual is not just an inalienable right, it is something you have to fight for and earn. There was no Number 1 before this.

Number 48 was "The Kid" in Living In Harmony and the Photographer in The Girl Who Was Death. That seems consequential but not sure why. The trivia seems to suggest it was only because they were pressed for time. But being the kid in another episode and here he is on trial for his youthful spirit seems connected. Kenneth Griffith was also Number 2 in The Girl With Was Death, but seems to be a different character here.

The reveal of Number 1 is so quick and inconsequential. Like McGoohan screaming "That's not the point... but here!"

So, here is my theory. Number 6 built The Village and his guilt over doing so is why he resigned (or perhaps just his guilt over being a spy in general). He arranged to have himself send to the Village as penance for this actions. I think when he awoke in the Village that part of his memory had been erased. The Butler was the only one who knew the truth.

Was the Village destroyed in the end? I feel like a lot of people say it was "blown up" but it seems like only its power was taken away. I need some coffee and contemplation after watching that.

Be seeing you...

# ? Oct 10, 2016 16:05

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Ezekiel 37:1-14

37 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.

5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.

8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

# ? Oct 10, 2016 17:25

remusclaw: Dec 8, 2009

One of the most important things I think can reiterated for a modern watching audience, is that unlike today, where you can pause and rewind to see the face of Number 1, there was no such convenience back then, and the reveal was there and gone in a flash of low quality non HD probably 21 inch or smaller TV.

# ? Oct 10, 2016 18:32

Wa11y: Jul 23, 2002; Did I say "cookies?" I meant, "Fire in your face!"

I remember watching this episode as a kid, or at least the last few minutes while they're dancing around in the back of the trailer after leaving the village. I vaguely remember the "congress" with the white robes and black and white faces, but no details past that. I just knew it was a show called The Prisoner that my mom liked when she was younger.

The one thing I do remember my mom saying was that during the intro, when you have No. 6 ask, "Who is No. 1?" and No. 2 always responds with "You are No. 6," she was of the opinion that they weren't saying "You are No. 6" but that they were saying "You are, No. 6". So they were kind of spoiling it in intro of every episode, but never making a big deal about it. And then in the end, well, they treat that answer as inconsequential.

Still some unanswered questions (What is Rover, and how does it work? Who actually built the village and why (though York_M_Chan's answer that it was built by No. 6, and his guilt over it is why he resigned is as good an answer as any)?), but I have to wonder how much of that is world building we expect with our modern television shows, with Wikias where everything has to be explained, but just wasn't done back in those days. Rover was there to be an enforcer. The why of his existence wasn't really thought out by any of the writers, they just needed some crazy inhuman enforcer for the Village, and that's what they come up. It has no back story, it has no technical manual explaining how it's all supposed to work. It just is, and it just does.

# ? Oct 10, 2016 18:58

York_M_Chan: Sep 11, 2003

Wa11y posted:

The one thing I do remember my mom saying was that during the intro, when you have No. 6 ask, "Who is No. 1?" and No. 2 always responds with "You are No. 6," she was of the opinion that they weren't saying "You are No. 6" but that they were saying "You are, No. 6". So they were kind of spoiling it in intro of every episode, but never making a big deal about it. And then in the end, well, they treat that answer as inconsequential.

I think it is in Many Happy Returns, 6 goes back to his old house and you see that his address is number 1. I think there may be a few other bits as well.

remusclaw posted:

One of the most important things I think can reiterated for a modern watching audience, is that unlike today, where you can pause and rewind to see the face of Number 1, there was no such convenience back then, and the reveal was there and gone in a flash of low quality non HD probably 21 inch or smaller TV.

That is actually a really fascinating point.

York_M_Chan fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Oct 10, 2016

# ? Oct 10, 2016 19:10

Kangra: May 7, 2012

Wa11y posted:

The one thing I do remember my mom saying was that during the intro, when you have No. 6 ask, "Who is No. 1?" and No. 2 always responds with "You are No. 6," she was of the opinion that they weren't saying "You are No. 6" but that they were saying "You are, No. 6". So they were kind of spoiling it in intro of every episode, but never making a big deal about it. And then in the end, well, they treat that answer as inconsequential.

Mary Norris's delivery of the line comes closest to giving it that reading, but it's not obvious.

There is another interesting exchange from Free For All:

quote:

6: "And what would happen if I were to win?"
2: "You'd be the boss."
6: "No. 1 is the boss."

McGoohan talked about the unmasking of No. 1 in the interview linked upthread. He mentioned that it was deliberately a small number of frames. It was more of a way to ensuring that they weren't trying to trick you with what the obvious answer was. It's the sort of thing where if it comes as no surprise, you can see him and be reassured. If you're still wondering who No. 1 might be for some reason, that brief appearance is likely to be missed. It's a reveal that's rarely (if ever) been done as effectively - they avoided belaboring the point but still clarified that there is no mystery about it.

# ? Oct 10, 2016 20:40

Small Strange Bird: Sep 22, 2006; Merci, chaton!

remusclaw posted:

One of the most important things I think can reiterated for a modern watching audience, is that unlike today, where you can pause and rewind to see the face of Number 1, there was no such convenience back then, and the reveal was there and gone in a flash of low quality non HD probably 21 inch or smaller TV.

I first saw The Prisoner on its Channel 4 run in the mid-80s (before we got a VCR), and that was a total "whoa, what the gently caress?" moment that aroused a great deal of discussion at school the next day. "Was that Number 6 laughing under the mask?" "No, I thought it was a monkey!" "The monkey was just another mask under the first mask - I think..."

But that kind of thing happened all the time pre-DVD/VHS. In my Department S writeups, I noted how Jason King's biography is briefly shown on the back of one of his books in an early episode, revealing that he was once married but his wife died in a plane crash (which you'd think would be kind of important to his character), but it was highly unlikely anyone watching at the time would have been able to read it. It's weird to think just how ephemeral television was back then; if you missed it, it was gone. (Literally, in the case of a lot of early Doctor Who and The Avengers, or the Quatermass shows.)

# ? Oct 10, 2016 20:52

And More: Jun 19, 2013; How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?

York_M_Chan posted:

Series Finale - FALL OUT Give it to me, baby!

The reveal of Number 1 is so quick and inconsequential. Like McGoohan screaming "That's not the point... but here!"

So, here is my theory. Number 6 built The Village and his guilt over doing so is why he resigned (or perhaps just his guilt over being a spy in general). He arranged to have himself send to the Village as penance for this actions. I think when he awoke in the Village that part of his memory had been erased. The Butler was the only one who knew the truth.

Was the Village destroyed in the end? I feel like a lot of people say it was "blown up" but it seems like only its power was taken away. I need some coffee and contemplation after watching that.

I have a hard time reading this last episode as literal. The sheer amounts of insanity that occurs indicate to me that there is no literal explanation. The village, the prisoner and the entire show become a metaphor for the individual's struggle for individuality. The reveal, that the prisoner is No. 1, only shows that the greatest threat for the individual is the individual itself. When the butler finally enters his house, and the door closes automatically, it takes the metaphor away from the village entirely. The world is the village.

Here is an interview with Patrick McGoohan in which everyone smokes. They also talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiIUnCMpGbM

edit: I meant the butler.

And More fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Oct 10, 2016

# ? Oct 10, 2016 21:20

York_M_Chan: Sep 11, 2003

Kangra posted:

6: "And what would happen if I were to win?"
2: "You'd be the boss."
6: "No. 1 is the boss."

This works towards my theory that there never was a Number 1 until Number 6 "beat' Number 2.
Perhaps the purpose of The Village is find a Number 1, a leader strong enough to endure all of the tests.

# ? Oct 10, 2016 21:21

Hank Morgan: Jun 17, 2007; Light Along the Inverse Curve.

My pet theory is that the Prisoner never really escaped. The village just became global instead.

# ? Oct 10, 2016 22:47

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Hank Morgan posted:

My pet theory is that the Prisoner never really escaped. The village just became global instead.

I think that it was already implied that the Village had global reach in Many Happy Returns, so why not?

# ? Oct 10, 2016 22:49

PassTheRemote: Mar 15, 2007; Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill wins.

At the end, the cycle begins again. The struggle to be individual is one that never ends.

I need a gif of No. 48 standing up, the camera moving in and him staying "I'm born all over".

I liked the robed society of Frank Gorshin in Star Wars appreciation society.

# ? Oct 11, 2016 02:24

Random Stranger: Nov 27, 2009

Hank Morgan posted:

My pet theory is that the Prisoner never really escaped. The village just became global instead.

That's always been my conclusion as well. He has left the place known as "the Village" but the Village has become the world.

There's so much to unpack in Fall Out that it isn't a shock that it's kept people talking about it for fifty years.

"All You Need is Love" as Number 6 enters a chamber where a council is gathered which apparently has people dedicated to "pacifists" and "activists". The controller's station is "identification", FWIW.
"Welcome" or "Well, come."?
I'd like to think that the council consists of people who succeeded in asserting individuality themselves, but I don't think that actually is the case. Maybe they're the ones who went into degree absolute, failed, and were revived themselves.
I'm pretty sure that was the original Rover's eye on Number 1's chamber.
I think Ezekiel in the Valley of the Dry Bones is the idea that individuality, particularly Number 6's, may be infectious and revive the broken spirits of the Village (or the rest of the world if we read the ending as everywhere is the Village now).
The anarchist is the one who accuses Number 48 of not fitting in. On this topic, I think reusing the Kid wasn't a good idea since his character in Living in Harmony doesn't fit with the archetype they were using here. Better a new character to be a failed individualist than having him turn up again.
Leo McKern looked a lot better with the beard.
"Authority second only to... one." He's looking in the direction both of the Number 1 chamber and Number 6 at that moment.
The offer to lead or depart may have been a more subtle than at first blush. The initial offer was to go home or to go anywhere. So does that mean that by going home Number 6 has chosen to lead the Global Village?
"You are all individuals!" "Yes, we're all individuals!" _{_{_{"I'm not!"}}} There's something fitting that Number 6's only word in his speech on individuality is "I" as he gets drowned out by the crowd.
Is the old Number One still out there? Assuming there ever was a Number One beyond Number Six.
The butler fighting alongside Number 6 was great to see.
Poor Rover.
I really hope that some of those open semi shots (not the close ups, of course) were done on open highways.
Number Two heads off to Parliament, back to the seats of power. That one's obvious to UK viewers, of course, but I thought I'd mention it for anyone not in the UK who didn't spot that. Is he going right back to control?

# ? Oct 11, 2016 02:55

Wa11y: Jul 23, 2002; Did I say "cookies?" I meant, "Fire in your face!"

Thinking about who his performance reminded me of, and now I'm sad that I'll never see Leo McKern and Brian Blessed in a shout off.

# ? Oct 11, 2016 03:45

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

When you view it from Fall Out backwards, one realizes that The Prisoner is a surrealist metaphor and not meant to be a literal, linear story. It makes madness like bizarre Peter Pan exchanges and gibbering prisoners in cocktail glasses more understandable, and after that, the rest kinda-sorta falls into place. Plus, IIRC, a commercial break was meant to go between the iconic opening sequence and the episode title when the Prisoner opens the blinds. It suggests each episode starts anew with the retirement/kidnapping/transport sequence and hints at a complete disregard for linear storytelling.

These days it's (somewhat) easier to process because television's gotten more daring as a medium. But, back in the day and after all that intriguing mystery about No. 1... woof. I can see why McGoohan needed to lay low.

_{(read Shattered Visage)}

Chokes McGee fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Oct 11, 2016

# ? Oct 11, 2016 04:01

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Hank Morgan posted:

My pet theory is that the Prisoner never really escaped. The village just became global instead.

Yep, that's what I thought as well. The door closing by itself in his London flat confirms this, as well as the hearse from the first episode driving by. The Butler didn't "escape with him", the Butler is there to watch him. McKern's Number 2 may have thought he "escaped" and went back to Parliament, where he was apparently a mover and shaker before his capture but he's still under their thumb (he may still be a willing participant). I assume everyone who works for the Village, including all the No. 2's, were pressed into service like Cobb, and this was what they were trying to break 6 to do--to become one of their agents. That's why I think "Who Is Number 1" is unimportant--there may not be a single "Number 1"--just the larger, shadowy organization that sends people to The Village. There may even be many villages. And like McKern's 2 says in his previous appearance, it's probably neither side of the Cold War, but some supraorganization which is taking control behind the scenes.

# ? Oct 11, 2016 04:05

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

Astroman posted:

Yep, that's what I thought as well. The door closing by itself in his London flat confirms this, as well as the hearse from the first episode driving by. The Butler didn't "escape with him", the Butler is there to watch him. McKern's Number 2 may have thought he "escaped" and went back to Parliament, where he was apparently a mover and shaker before his capture but he's still under their thumb (he may still be a willing participant). I assume everyone who works for the Village, including all the No. 2's, were pressed into service like Cobb, and this was what they were trying to break 6 to do--to become one of their agents. That's why I think "Who Is Number 1" is unimportant--there may not be a single "Number 1"--just the larger, shadowy organization that sends people to The Village. There may even be many villages. And like McKern's 2 says in his previous appearance, it's probably neither side of the Cold War, but some supraorganization which is taking control behind the scenes.

When interviewed about whether or not the Prisoner finally got his freedom, McGoohan said he hasn't got it. Whether that meant he was still in the Village or just in a wider one (i.e. the world) wasn't clarified, but I really don't think it needs to be either way. The Prisoner will always be the Prisoner, a cantankerous human being that won't conform to any standard or group. As long as he is who he is, the world is his Village. Just like his face being behind the gorilla mask, he makes his own prison at the same time he fights against it.

e: The original Prisoner video game addressed this in a really good way, too. To win, you have to tell Number Two you know it's a video game, and if you've beat enough "episodes," he gives you the keystrokes to "unplug the computer." After you beat the game, you get a brief paragraph reminding you that the only person who was operating the game was you, and you could've just turned the game off and walked away. It really is an incredible game, but good loving luck deciphering any of it without the ability to read code.

Chokes McGee fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Oct 11, 2016

# ? Oct 11, 2016 04:10

Tiggum: Oct 24, 2007; Your life and your quest end here.

Well, I can certainly see why people were unsatisfied with that ending. I have to say, the series seems more of a historical curiosity than a worthwhile thing to actually watch. The individual episodes are pretty hit and miss and overall its reach far exceeds its grasp.

Random Stranger posted:

The offer to lead or depart may have been a more subtle than at first blush. The initial offer was to go home or to go anywhere. So does that mean that by going home Number 6 has chosen to lead the Global Village?

Well, he didn't actually go home, he just stopped by to get his car. It sort of seemed implied that the butler was going inside to wait for him to come back, but he may not.

Random Stranger posted:

There's something fitting that Number 6's only word in his speech on individuality is "I" as he gets drowned out by the crowd.

Has anyone gone to the effort of trying to figure out what he's actually saying there and transcribed it? You're obviously not supposed to be able to hear it in the episode, but presumably there was a scripted speech he was delivering there.

Hank Morgan posted:

My pet theory is that the Prisoner never really escaped. The village just became global instead.

It was aliens. The village was stage one of the invasion and ending it triggered stage two. Explains all the future tech and why the rovers died when the rocket took off.

# ? Oct 11, 2016 04:38

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Well I loved it, absolutely loved it. After the disappointing previous few episodes, Once Upon a Time and Fall Out were a fantastic 1, 2 punch of surreal madness that fit perfectly with the very best parts of the show for me. I love this show, I especially love that it was made back in 1967, this thing was so far ahead of its time and so different from almost everything else I can think of that was being produced at the time. I very much agree with the reads that ultimately the story is all about individualism/conformity, about the importance of standing up for yourself as a person regardless of your politics, educational, class etc. It's why questions like,"Which side?","Why did he resign?" and even,"Who is Number 1" are ultimately meaningless, because the Prisoner will always be a prisoner regardless of where he is - he doesn't fit in because he asks questions, he refuses to accept things at their face value, he is at best bemused by peoples/groups' attempts to order things and more often than not furious about them. If there IS an answer to the question of why he resigned, I'd say we got it every single episode as we saw his anarchic, chaotic personality clash with every attempt to put him in his place - could a guy like that ever really stick around in one place/occupation for long without feeling smothered and lashing out as a result?

There are so many wonderful little moments in this episode, but I think my favorite is when,"All You Need is Love" is playing over the scene of the Prisoner blasting his machine gun at guards while everybody rushes about in a panic.

Chokes McGee posted:

When you view it from Fall Out backwards, one realizes that The Prisoner is a surrealist metaphor and not meant to be a literal, linear story.

And More posted:

I have a hard time reading this last episode as literal. The sheer amounts of insanity that occurs indicate to me that there is no literal explanation. The village, the prisoner and the entire show become a metaphor for the individual's struggle for individuality. The reveal, that the prisoner is No. 1, only shows that the greatest threat for the individual is the individual itself. When the butler finally enters his house, and the door closes automatically, it takes the metaphor away from the village entirely. The world is the village.

I largely agree with both these.

Thanks York_M_Chan, I had meant to watch this show for years but I'm glad when I finally did I got to do it along with a bunch of other people either watching for the first time or rewatching after a lengthy period. It's far from a perfect show, but even viewed with the benefit of years (decades) worth of - as Chokes McGee says - "more daring television" it still holds up incredibly well and the ending just feels completely appropriate to the series as a whole.

# ? Oct 11, 2016 08:28

Forktoss: Feb 13, 2012; I'm OK, you're so-so

Random Stranger posted:

"You are all individuals!" "Yes, we're all individuals!" _{_{_{"I'm not!"}}} There's something fitting that Number 6's only word in his speech on individuality is "I" as he gets drowned out by the crowd.

I always thought the crowd was shouting "Aye! Aye! Aye!" - they're agreeing with Number 6 so loudly and readily that whatever he is actually trying to say gets drowned out by the crowd's overwhelming will to comply. I think the script does specify that they're just repeating his "I", though, but I like my interpretation better anyway :colbert:

# ? Oct 11, 2016 08:47

PassTheRemote: Mar 15, 2007; Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill wins.

I loved the last shot being the same as the opening. It really hammers home the cyclical nature of the metaphor.

# ? Oct 11, 2016 12:05

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Tiggum posted:

It was aliens. The village was stage one of the invasion and ending it triggered stage two. Explains all the future tech and why the rovers died when the rocket took off.

It was Dark City the whole time!

# ? Oct 11, 2016 13:59

York_M_Chan: Sep 11, 2003

The Vosgian Beast posted:

It was Dark City the whole time!

The Village is Shell Beach!

I don't think the whole series should be seen as a non-narrative metaphor. It is a bit of both and to pin it down as one or the other does it a disservice, much like Lynch's work it functions in its own world.

Do you think Number 6 thinks he is free now? I think he thinks he won and thinks that he is free - perhaps that he is even in charge but that is not the case.

# ? Oct 11, 2016 14:46

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

York_M_Chan posted:

Do you think Number 6 thinks he is free now? I think he thinks he won and thinks that he is free - perhaps that he is even in charge but that is not the case.

I'm inclined to agree with a certain comic I've posted over and over again that they actually broke him by getting him to accept a number, even if it was No. 1. It's bleak as gently caress after all that went on, though.

# ? Oct 11, 2016 17:01

Random Stranger: Nov 27, 2009

York_M_Chan posted:

Do you think Number 6 thinks he is free now? I think he thinks he won and thinks that he is free - perhaps that he is even in charge but that is not the case.

He definitely thinks he's won, even if it's dubious that he actually has. He's back in the world he knows, he's the master (if not actual leader) of the forces behind the Village, and he drives off.

That does raise the question of "what now?" I don't think he's going to go report in like he has other times he thought he broke away from the Village's influence. He feels that there's no need to undo them now, after all. He was about to leave on a vacation but he might have had his fill of sea side resorts. He can't take up a mundane life; put him in an office and it's the Village all over again. So what now?

# ? Oct 11, 2016 19:55

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

Random Stranger posted:

That does raise the question of "what now?" I don't think he's going to go report in like he has other times he thought he broke away from the Village's influence. He feels that there's no need to undo them now, after all. He was about to leave on a vacation but he might have had his fill of sea side resorts. He can't take up a mundane life; put him in an office and it's the Village all over again. So what now?

Same as it ever was: Ride around England as a freelance cranky nonconformist. :getin:

# ? Oct 12, 2016 00:20

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

In the book series of a few years back, he just ends up back in the Village, which has returned to status quo. He's just saltier than ever of course!

# ? Oct 12, 2016 04:26

Small Strange Bird: Sep 22, 2006; Merci, chaton!

Astroman posted:

In the book series of a few years back, he just ends up back in the Village, which has returned to status quo. He's just saltier than ever of course!

That does kind of imply that the events of 'Fall Out' were the ultimate example of the Village loving with him. "You thought you'd beaten us, met Number 1, destroyed the entire Village and escaped back to London? PSYCHE!"

# ? Oct 12, 2016 08:08

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Payndz posted:

That does kind of imply that the events of 'Fall Out' were the ultimate example of the Village loving with him. "You thought you'd beaten us, met Number 1, destroyed the entire Village and escaped back to London? PSYCHE!"

Number 2: So..... have we broken you? :ohdear:

The Prisoner: Nope!

Number 2: God DAMMIT!

# ? Oct 12, 2016 09:02

Jai Guru Dave: Jan 3, 2008; Nothing's gonna change my world

remusclaw posted:

One of the most important things I think can reiterated for a modern watching audience, is that unlike today, where you can pause and rewind to see the face of Number 1, there was no such convenience back then, and the reveal was there and gone in a flash of low quality non HD probably 21 inch or smaller TV.

This was McGoohan's one mistake - he says in the indispensable interview below that he didn't want to spoon-feed the viewer. But it was absolutely possible to see that sequence and not get that it was McGoohan/No. 6 under the mask. Yes, No. 6 and No. 1 had identical expressions - but that was only for a split-second. You got a good look at No. 1's maniacal face as he escapes - but it's not like we saw that expression a heck of a lot in the series.

And More posted:

I have a hard time reading this last episode as literal. The sheer amounts of insanity that occurs indicate to me that there is no literal explanation. The village, the prisoner and the entire show become a metaphor for the individual's struggle for individuality. The reveal, that the prisoner is No. 1, only shows that the greatest threat for the individual is the individual itself. When the butler finally enters his house, and the door closes automatically, it takes the metaphor away from the village entirely. The world is the village.

Here is an interview with Patrick McGoohan in which everyone smokes. They also talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiIUnCMpGbM

edit: I meant the butler.

I can't recommend this enough. Death of the Author notwithstanding, McGoohan directly addressed a lot of questions here, and I enjoy the series more for that perspective. No. 1's identity, for example, was NOT supposed to be ambiguous - I thought until then it was.

Hank Morgan posted:

My pet theory is that the Prisoner never really escaped. The village just became global instead.

I adore this theory. One of my many very favorite parts of the whole series was the end acting credits. Kanner, McKern and Muscat get individual name credits. McGoohan is "Prisoner." Not even "the" prisoner.

There was a snarky series of episode reviews from the BBC linked earlier in the thread, and I think it was useful to read a point of view from someone who clearly hated the series. The series, and ending, may have been self-indulgent, but it was completely sincere. It was not a middle finger to the audience. And while McGoohan may have had a bit of a superiority complex over those who don't agree with his diagnosis of society, I don't believe he thought he was so superior that he "beat" the Village in the series, or the "system" in real life.

The series, the ending, and the message hold up beautifully today. Unfortunately for us.

# ? Oct 12, 2016 16:21

remusclaw: Dec 8, 2009

I get the idea, supported by how other folk talk about it, and aside from any questions of the graphic novel, that even were he to have gained his freedom from the village, the Prisoner, being who he is, will continue to treat the world like one big village regardless of it's actual status as such. If there is any character in fiction likely to wander the world, righting wrongs like Kane from Kung Fu, it's 6/1. Given his interfering nature, you begin to almost sympathize with the Village command, if he were not there, in the Village, loving up their plans, he would be doing it all over the world.

# ? Oct 12, 2016 18:00

Chokes McGee: Aug 7, 2008; This is Urotsuki.

Jerusalem posted:

Number 2: So..... have we broken you?
The Prisoner: Nope!
Number 2: God DAMMIT!

Number 2: "Well, guess I better report my failures to Number 1. *sighs and dials*"
Prisoner: *cell phone rings*
Number 2: "God DAMMIT!"

# ? Oct 12, 2016 18:13

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

remusclaw posted:

I get the idea, supported by how other folk talk about it, and aside from any questions of the graphic novel, that even were he to have gained his freedom from the village, the Prisoner, being who he is, will continue to treat the world like one big village regardless of it's actual status as such. If there is any character in fiction likely to wander the world, righting wrongs like Kane from Kung Fu, it's 6/1. Given his interfering nature, you begin to almost sympathize with the Village command, if he were not there, in the Village, loving up their plans, he would be doing it all over the world.

Unfortunately, by doing that he's probably doing what the Village wants him to. :getin:

# ? Oct 13, 2016 00:20

NarkyBark: Dec 7, 2003; one funky chicken

Wait for it...

http://imgur.com/gallery/zYs4JQ0

# ? Dec 13, 2016 21:55

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 23:46

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

NarkyBark posted:

Wait for it...

http://imgur.com/gallery/zYs4JQ0

Ahaha I knew what it was going to be as soon as I opened the link :allears:

# ? Dec 13, 2016 22:36

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > The Prisoner: I am not a number, I am a free man!

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