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Who was the biggest war criminal of Killzone 2?
Rico
Sev
Visari
Blind Sally
Killzone 1
Crow, update PoP2008
View Results
 
  • Locked thread
Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!


Alarum! The old threads are dead! Thread Killzone the First tis naught but a long distant memory. Tragedy befell Thread Killzone the Liberator, who tried to free us from the tyranny imposed by their predecessor--for no one cared to support their claim to the throne. Be ye thankful for the true ruler, Thread Killzone the Second, who brought about the golden age. It yet remains to be seen what sort of ruler Thread Killzone the Third will be...



Hey team, we're back. Second verse, same as the first. We're playing the Killzone Trilogy and Liberation and we've finally made it dto the final game in this particular series. We're gonna try not to do too much with MLG multiplayer videos or fighting game fever dream hallucinations and stick to a straight up LP of Killzone 3. The operative word here is "try".



The earlier LPs are as follows:
With regards to later games in the Killzone franchise, I stand firmly on my "definitely maybe" stance. Though crow and I both have the means to LP Mercenary and Shadow Fall, I don't want to make any promises.



:siren::siren::siren::siren: S P O I L E R :siren::siren::siren::siren:
:siren::siren::siren::siren: ! P O L I C Y ! :siren::siren::siren::siren:

There isn't one! I don't like spoiler policies--don't believe in'em. Besides, Killzone is the gaming equivalent of Shakespeare, so I expect everyone to be familiar with the story line so we can focus more on the performance. After all everyone's played the Killzone series, right? (Right???)



As mentioned before, the LP style was influenced by a couple of enjoyable Cinema Discusso threads that utilized a running commentary style of reviewing. Specifically, Kyle Hyde's American Psycho thread and Terry van Feleday's Transformers threads. It's in that vein that we've decided to Continue To Needlessly Complicate The Killzone Quadrilogy.

To quote earlier threads:

Blind Sally posted:

At first glance, the Killzone games are nothing more than pretty, shallow sci-fi FPSes meant to act as glorified tech demos. While that's not entirely false, there's a bit more to the games than just that. Much like Spec Ops: The Line, the Killzone games have a deeper, more challenging, story to tell. Although while Spec Ops is akin to someone shouting in your face with a megaphone, Killzone is often more like someone whispering to you while you sleep--with earplugs. The ideas are subtle, but they're there, and while they're often drowned out by the in-your-face allusions to WW2 and facism, there's plenty of fun stuff to pick out between the lines, including:
  • criticism of war fiction in general
  • criticism of testosterone-laden machismo
  • recurring themes regarding the entropy of war and fears of homogeneity
  • deconstruction of modern and traditional action hero tropes
  • colour-theory
  • notions of good and evil

That list isn't exhaustive, but it's what I'll be focussing on. Please, feel free to add more to the conversation as it comes up.



If you've watched all of the previous Killzone LPs up to this point and don't know the answer to this question, then nine-gear crow and I have failed.


















CURRENT TALLY: BLIND SALLY: 35; NINE-GEAR CROW: 52
  • Rick_Hunter - Blind Sally: 420; nine-gear crow: 69
  • CJacobs - Blind Sally: 69; nine-gear crow: 420
  • hlwss - Blind Sally: 42; nine-gear crow: 52
  • White Coke - Blind Sally: 41; nine-gear crow: 51
  • Kinfolk910 - Blind Sally: 40; nine-gear crow: 50
  • chiasaur11 - Blind Sally: 39; nine-gear crow: 50
  • Lotish - Blind Sally: 30; nine-gear crow: 48
  • biosterous - Blind Sally: 23; nine-gear crow: 37
  • HardDisk - Blind Sally: 23; nine-gear crow: 30
  • Lazy Bear - Blind Sally: 23; nine-near crow: 23
  • Aeromanica - Blind Sally: 20; nine-gear crow: 50
  • skullhead tethyis - Blind Sally: 20; nine-gear crow: 36
  • Ben Kasack - Blind Sally: 15; nine-gear crow: 25
  • SIGSEGV - Blind Sally: 14; nine-gear crow: 88
  • FoolyCharged - Blind Sally: 34; nine-gear crow: 10
  • Jobbo Fett - Blind Sally: 7; nine-gear crow: 23
  • JamieTheD - Blind Sally: 6; nine-gear crow: 48
  • CommissarMega - Blind Sally: 3; nine-gear crow: 5

Sally fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Nov 27, 2016

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Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!


Once again, we begin a Killzone LP not with any gameplay but with the opening cinematic video. The music is top notch, with Joris de Man once again in top form. However, the video itself is something of a wet fart. Not a good way to start the LP, I know, but it's true. Compared to the opening cutscenes for the first three games this one feels decidedly phoned in. Don't take my word for it, watch it for yourself.


At this point, Killzone 1's opening cinematic is pretty classic. It looked great on the PS2 and still holds up as a decent cinematic largely in part due to Brian Cox's brilliant VA. I had a lot of good things to say about it in the first LP. Liberation's biggest sin is that its opening cinematic is just kinda of generic and has a total absence of Brian Cox. The less we dwell on THAT sorry fact, the better. Killzone 2 gave us pretty much the best goddamned opening cinematic on the entire goddamned PlayStation 3. I mean, drat. Seriously. What a well-cut cinematic. Again, I had a lot of good things to say about it. For Killzone 3, it's a tough act to follow and it sadly does not live up to expectations. Maybe Guerrilla Games realized they couldn't just keep giving us more of the same. Instead, they change it up a little. Make it a flashback. Throw in some new characters and text narration to--

Wait.

loving text narration?



For shame!

Okay, so full disclosure: Killzone 3, despite being Shakespeare, is more or less a tech demo like all the Killzones before it. Killzone 3's big claim to tech demo fame is that it was one of the first titles to really take advantage of 3D gaming and the PlayStation Move controls. Or something. I never bothered. Anyways, I bring this up because as a result of that this game got bundled in with a lot of Sony 3DTV/PS3 sales packages. Suddenly a whole new audience was introduced to the Killzone universe with Killzone 3 as someone's uncle bought it during a Boxing Day sale at Future Shop. Considering this is the third game in the series, it's important to catch them up on the details. Only I feel the text narration was a misstep. This series has always been about having a rich, deep, and complex lore leading up the each game's events. The opening cinematics in earlier games existed to have Visari info dump all this lore into players' laps. I mean, I dunno, maybe all the funding for Malcom McDowell and Ray Winstone limited how many lines Brian Cox was willing to record. Regardless, here we are. With a text narration.



With the info dump out of the way, the game dumps us literally into Visari's shoes. We get to see the world through this egomanical dictator, if only for a moment. In these brief moments, we are introduced to pretty much his entire inner circle all in rapid succession. (Those that don't appear are already dead at the time of this flashback (i.e., Lente, Metrac, and Cobar)). This guy up front is Admiral Orlock. We're sort of familiar with his handiwork from the previous game. No Helghast civilians appear in Pyrrhus City during the game's events because Orlock had evacuated them all. It's his ships that fly in at the very end basically dooming all of the remaining ISA forces:



The game doesn't stop though. Immediately afterwards, we meet a familiar face and a new character.



That's ol'Radec to the right :rip:

The other man is Malcolm McDowell Jorhan Stahl. Stahl as in Stahl Arms. As in every single Helghast gun we've held in the past three games that had "StA" in its name was built by this man's company.



He's already throwing smug glances our way.



Then we meet the Helghast Senate. More about these creeps and Nazi cosplayers later.



Then we meet Visari's daughter, Hera.



Clearly there is some repulsion between her and her father. This doesn't really go anywhere for now. Hera's significance in Killzone 3 begins and ends in this cutscene.



Ah, and then Visari's favourite character shows up: Helghast Media. Propaganda. It's at this point where he starts to spin his lies once again.



"Speech! Speech! Speech!"



Tragically, the speech here lacks the charm and charisma that Brian Cox brought to the role in the earlier two games. I mean, it's fine. It's serviceable. It's just not brilliant and perhaps that's why it's so disappointing. This flashback only serves to remind the player that Visari is dead. There will be no further opportunities for Brian Cox to chew the scenery outside of flashbacks. Perhaps that's why it feels so hollow? Note who gets to stand with Visari in the propaganda video, though: Hera and Orlock.

Anyways, we're introduced to another new element: the Red Dust nuke. Whether you notice it or not, this was the prime focus of Killzone: Liberation and Killzone 2. To quickly recap, the Red Dust nuke was developed by the ISA to be a high-explosive blast, low-radiation yield bomb. The ISA planned to drop it on their own cities to halt the Helghast invasion of Vekta. The reasoning being that because the radiation would dissipate relatively quickly they could just rebuild their cities on the bones of their invaders. The idea was shot down but not before spies stole the nuke and put it in Visari's hands. Ironically enough, Visari dropped it on his own city to halt the Vektan invasion of Helghan.



So while Hera and Orlock get to be part of the public face of the Helghast leadership, its people like Radec and Stahl who do the dirty work for Visari.



Biggest thing of note here is that ship. It's powered by petrusite. We're going to see more and more weapons using this unstable ore.



Moving on, it's this part of the video where Guerrilla starts to get clever again. Well, I mean, the message is pretty on the nose, but the imagery looks real nice. I feel like Guerrilla Games got tired of Killzone fans missing the point of the game series and whinging about how the Helghast are actually the good guys and the ISA are oppressive space fascists trying to suppress a brilliant and strong culture. Over the course of three games, I'd like to think it's become apparent that, actually, both of them are bad. We're caught in the middle of a war between two lovely governments. However, people love the Helghast. Again, not just as villains, but believe them to be the heroes of this series.



Look at that! So heroic. Those brave Helghast citizens working together with its brave soldiers! It's a monument to their hard word and perseverance as a people.

It's blatant propaganda. We've seen the slums of Helghan in Killzone 2. Your average Helghan citizen lives a lovely, lovely life. Life sucked before Visari and it continued to suck with him--only now there's a military system in place that will silence anyone who opposes them--oh, and they also dragged the whole planet into a war.



It's at this point the nuke goes off. You know, the nuke that Visari stole from the ISA. He dropped it on his own city. As the blast wave rolls over the landscape, it strips away the lies built by Visari and the Helghast. I mean, look at it! If there was ever any doubt that the Helghast might secretly be the good guys of the series then let that be laid to rest. The soldiers hurt the common people.



Once again, a monument to Helghan's workers.



Once again, they're being led by someone, presumably a Helghast officer.



Aaaand once again, the blastwave hits and its twisted into a more accurate hellscape. The Helghast leadership is bad, they hurt the common people.



Looking for someone to blame for this? Well, you can place the blame on the shoulders of Visari. I love what happens to his portrait here. Very on the nose, but I like the transition.



Helghan burns in the background as Visari stands tall, eyes glowing, like some sort of specter or demon from hell. The people in the foreground have turned into screaming skeletons.



Visari=bad.



And he knows it.



Sally note: thanks to crow for doing the Character write-up for this post.

This sequence is very economical in its visual storytelling and world building, and needs to be unpacked a little bit before we move on, as it introduces us in rapid succession to the cast of characters who will be spending the remainder of the Killzone franchise (up to Shadow Fall, at least) fighting over the scraps of Visari’s legacy. They are, in order of their introduction:


Admiral Orlock. Orlock, ostensibly, will be our Visari stand-in for Killzone 3. As of the end of Killzone 2, Orlock is the highest ranking member of the Helghan military still alive after Visari’s military cabinet was essentially bled dry over the course of Killzones 1, Liberation, Mercenary, and 2.

Orlock represents the military faction in the internal battle over Visari’s crown. He believes in the old pre-Visari ways of succession, that Helghan should go, in the words of Alexander the Great, “to the strongest.” …Unfortunately, Metrac and Radec are both dead, and I wouldn’t trust Lente to run a 7/11 let alone a planet if he were still alive, so Orlock’s all we got.

That said, despite him ostensibly being the most powerful person on Helghan in the wake of Visari’s death, he has few real allies, and has landed in control over a largely soldier-centric army that quietly resents now having to answer to a naval branch that has been so far spectacularly ineffective in combat situations. Orlock maybe top dog at the outset of Killzone 3, but he is going to have to fight like mad to say on top.


Jorhan Stalh. We’ve been pre-figuring his introduction since all the way back to the original Killzone, and now he’s finally here in the flesh. Jorhan Stahl, the CEO of the Stahl Arms Corporation, represents the private sector in this tug of war for Visari’s vacant crown. As the head of Helghan’s largest corporation, the primary weapons supplier to the Helghast military, and owner of a vast private army onto itself, Jorhan Stahl is functionally the most powerful man on Helghan, while Orlock is only nominally.

Stahl holds the entire Helghan economy in his hands, so everyone else at the table needs to play nice with him lest he take his ball and go home and hang the empire out to dry. That means indulging his otherwise irascible dickishness and grasps for greater power.

Stahl believes that as a successful businessman he’s better suited to ruling Helghan than any of these incompetent military leaders or politicians. He is of the opinion that Helghan should go back to being under corporate rule, like it was at the time of its founding. He’s opposed in this effort of course by both Orlock and the Senate, and while Orlock is the immovable object to Stahl’s unstoppable force, Stahl does have his share of allies in the Senate that support his views. Although, the semi-canon Killzone 3 novelization reveals that they’re not exactly allies by choice, as Stahl has all sorts of career-ending and life-ruining dirt on several senators, whose support is paid for with his silence.


The Helghan Senate. The deliberative and lawmaking body of Helghan. Prior to Visari’s death, the senate was just rubber stamp giving a veneer of legality to their Autarch’s agenda. In the wake of Visari’s death, the senate has suddenly become the most important and actually powerful body in the grand tug of war for the reigns of Helghan. Only the senate can name an official successor to Visari, something they have been reluctant to do, and with good reason.

The senate sees the chaos of Visari’s death as an opportunity to expand their own power and would like to name a successor on their terms, and an Autarch sympathetic to or even in debt to the Senate would be their prefect candidate. …Good luck with that one guys. Trying to wrangle Orlock and Stahl to heel is like stepping in the middle of a fight between two grizzlies to ask one of them for their autograph.

While they have comparatively minimal dialog compared to Orlock and Stahl, their various reactions to events across the game should give you an inkling as to whom each individual senator favours and who’s on their shitlists.


Hera Visari. Visari’s daughter makes a blink and you’ll miss it cameo in the opening to Killzone 3, but her importance to the franchise is only in its infancy here. Her cameo here is meant to be Marie Antoinette “let them eat cake” moment, contrasting the private opulence of Visari’s household with the ruinous poverty seen across Helghan over the course of Killzones 2 and 3. Yet, Guerrilla was so intrigued by her character that they brought her back for Killzone: Shadow Fall in an expanded role.

Without spoiling who ultimately “wins” control over Helghan in Killzone 3, control over the Helghast eventually falls into Hera’s hands some 30 years down the road from where we are now in the franchise. Chancellor Hera Visari plays a very prominent role in Shadow Fall, but that’s all in the future from our perspective. For now, this will be the last we see of her in Killzone 3, as she’s immediately shepherded off of Helghan before the destruction of Phyrrus City to spend the remainder of the war with the ISA on the Helgast-sympathetic colony of Gyre.




Helghast Strike Fighter

Deployed late in the Second Extrasolar War due to its Arc powered technology being such a recent development. It's large size is meant for it to function in space as well as in a planet's atmosphere. The first use of the Strike Fighter was to drop the Red Dust nuke of Pyrrhus, though it would continue to see use afterwards. The Arc tech ring gives this heavily armoured craft nigh-unlimited hovering capabilities, making it an excellent VTOL craft. They are twice the size of the standard Helghast Overlord Dropship, allowing for a co-pilot and pilot as well as several passengers behind. Thrusters all over the ship allow to maneuver easily in space. Controls have been simplified so that minimal training is required to pilot it.



Trailers for Killzone 3. They're pretty good! Worth checking out for all the cool action.
Heck, nine-gear crow even made a pretty good trailer for this dratéd LP:
Lastly, some concept art. Orlock and Stahl went through a few revisions before Guerrilla settled on their final design, but I'll get to some of prototypes later--once we get to know them a little better. In the mean time, here are a pair of portraits of their final designs:



I also appreciate the effort and detail put into Hera, a character who really isn't a part of this game. The detail on her hair and gown is incredible:




Some earlier concept art of Hera's gown:

Sally fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jun 23, 2016

Klaus88
Jan 23, 2011

Violence has its own economy, therefore be thoughtful and precise in your investment
It begins again. :negative:

And there's Helgan Stalin.

Rasler
Dec 30, 2008

Klaus88 posted:

It begins again. :negative:

And there's Helgan Stalin.


I think he's based on Otto Von Bismarck.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
I'm looking at this poll, and... the CJacobs option. Where is it?

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013
So it begins.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


OP is missing Rico's crimes against all forms of intelligence as of the end of Killzone the Second. Please fix ASAP.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



You know, the Helghast really make Zeon look appealing.

I mean, yes. Technically you're a soldier for an omnicidal dictatorship whose leader takes "You're worse than Hitler!" as a compliment. And okay, you're probably going to get killed by Amuro "THE WHITE DEVIL!" Ray. And if you insist on bringing up awkward details, you might get killed by your own leadership when Gihren fires the solar ray.

But at least with Zeon, there's a few officers like Hardy and Ral who are genuinely decent people trying to play out a poo poo hand as best they can, you don't have to live on a lovely planet where the elites live in opulence while you don't even get air, and after the first Zeon war is over, assuming you survived, you can just move back home to Side 3, tell whoever's recruiting for the latest Neo Zeon to gently caress right off, and get on with your life. And, you know, there's no shame in being killed by Amuro. Happens to a lot of guys.

With the Helghast, you might get killed by Rico.

oscarthewilde
May 16, 2012


I would often go there
To the tiny church there

Klaus88 posted:

It begins again. :negative:

And there's Helgan Stalin.

Helghan Stalin/Bismarck and his bestest of buds Helghan Goebbels-Himmler!

Klaus88
Jan 23, 2011

Violence has its own economy, therefore be thoughtful and precise in your investment

chiasaur11 posted:

You know, the Helghast really make Zeon look appealing.

I mean, yes. Technically you're a soldier for an omnicidal dictatorship whose leader takes "You're worse than Hitler!" as a compliment. And okay, you're probably going to get killed by Amuro "THE WHITE DEVIL!" Ray. And if you insist on bringing up awkward details, you might get killed by your own leadership when Gihren fires the solar ray.

But at least with Zeon, there's a few officers like Hardy and Ral who are genuinely decent people trying to play out a poo poo hand as best they can, you don't have to live on a lovely planet where the elites live in opulence while you don't even get air, and after the first Zeon war is over, assuming you survived, you can just move back home to Side 3, tell whoever's recruiting for the latest Neo Zeon to gently caress right off, and get on with your life. And, you know, there's no shame in being killed by Amuro. Happens to a lot of guys.

With the Helghast, you might get killed by Rico.

Killzone and the Helghast are an excellent depiction of fascism. With everything that entails.

Also, ANIME! :freep:

Space Kablooey
May 6, 2009


Ground floor.


She has some huge lady-balls to wear that in a warzone.

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER

oscarthewilde posted:

Helghan Stalin/Bismarck and his bestest of buds Helghan Goebbels-Himmler!

Wouldn't Stahl have more in common with Speer, though? He is the armaments guy, after all.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Killzone 2 and 3 are the best Killzones, can't wait to see the analysis for this one!

Rick_Hunter
Jan 5, 2004

My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

chiasaur11 posted:

You know, the Helghast really make Zeon look appealing.

I mean, yes. Technically you're a soldier for an omnicidal dictatorship whose leader takes "You're worse than Hitler!" as a compliment. And okay, you're probably going to get killed by Amuro "THE WHITE DEVIL!" Ray. And if you insist on bringing up awkward details, you might get killed by your own leadership when Gihren fires the solar ray.

But at least with Zeon, there's a few officers like Hardy and Ral who are genuinely decent people trying to play out a poo poo hand as best they can, you don't have to live on a lovely planet where the elites live in opulence while you don't even get air, and after the first Zeon war is over, assuming you survived, you can just move back home to Side 3, tell whoever's recruiting for the latest Neo Zeon to gently caress right off, and get on with your life. And, you know, there's no shame in being killed by Amuro. Happens to a lot of guys.

With the Helghast, you might get killed by Rico.

That's where you're wrong because even the Helghast sought to conquer Vekta as opposed to Zeon taking vacant colonies (because they gassed the inhabitants) and dropping them on the loving planet.

When pushed the German stand-ins in this game resort to nuking their own population centers. Zeon? Nukes other population centers from square one.

Rick_Hunter fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jun 18, 2016

oscarthewilde
May 16, 2012


I would often go there
To the tiny church there

CommissarMega posted:

Wouldn't Stahl have more in common with Speer, though? He is the armaments guy, after all.

In terms of overall role in the government that's more or less true (though one could make the argument that Ferdinand Porsche or Krupp would fit his particular role better, considering they were private actors co-operating with the government), but in terms of design he has Goebbels long kinda sharp face and a Himmler-like SS uniform.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013
Also just another little note on the Senate, because it'll be a couple of updates before we see them again. I'd gone back and forth on how to portray them in their character potrait, because with the exception of two specific senators, who's specific deals we'll touch one when they become plot-relevant, the Helghan Senate is primarily meant to be viewed as a singular entity. I kind of struggled on how to portray them without throwing too much focus on any one individual senator, leading to some rather absurdist takes on the whole thing, which I kind of felt was appropriate for an entity as inherently ridiculous as the Helghan Senate:



There was even an animated .gif version that spun them all around like a senate pinwheel, but I seem to have lost it, sadly.

Rick_Hunter
Jan 5, 2004

My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)
I'm picturing an animated gif where you managed to work them into a pentaseklion as they walk around the square frame.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Man, I finished watching the Killzone 2 LP a few weeks ago, so I'm pretty stoked to see this train drive through the orphanage and make it to the school for the blind!

We've just started, so there isn't much to talk about yet, but there's two things I've been wondering about lately. After working my way through the LPs, I'm wondering if the the gameplay and the storytelling of the Killzone series are in conflict. I mean, you guys have pulled out a lot of associations and themes from the art design and the cutscenes...but games 2 and 3 have you in a Call of Duty mode of run-run-run-shoot-shoot-shoot that keeps the player more focused on simply surviving rather than paying attention to the environment and story, and a lot of what you've guys have talked about regarding the backstory of the conflict comes from outside sources. I'm not entirely sure it could be remedied while keeping the gameplay the same; in this sort of game, diary-reading would just kill the tempo. I'm tempted to say something like Killzone's friendly rival Resistance might be a better fit; the player is a lone character behind enemy lines, so there's an excuse not to be in firefights all the time and to search nooks and crannies. (Speaking of which, Resistance: Fall of Man is something that needs a decent LP. There's weird stuff going on with the story in that one.)

The other thing I'm wondering is...why was Natko written out of the story after Killzone 2? As you guys pointed out, he's introduced as an rear end, but when the chips are down he's willing to rise to the occasion. Could they not get the voice actor (though I don't see why that would stop them), or was it something else?

Klaus88 posted:

And there's Helgan Stalin.

It's sort of weird, isn't it? We've got Admiral Orlock with the mustache, and we've got Jorhan Stahl with the name. I wonder if Guerilla is just pilfering the historical library for associations to totalitarianism, or if there's something more is going to be developed.

Finally...is there, like, an Ikea diagram or something to explain how to make hair do that? I know little enough about women's hairstyles, so whatever Hera's rocking is basically witchcraft to me.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Marshal Radisic posted:

After working my way through the LPs, I'm wondering if the the gameplay and the storytelling of the Killzone series are in conflict. I mean, you guys have pulled out a lot of associations and themes from the art design and the cutscenes...but games 2 and 3 have you in a Call of Duty mode of run-run-run-shoot-shoot-shoot that keeps the player more focused on simply surviving rather than paying attention to the environment and story, and a lot of what you've guys have talked about regarding the backstory of the conflict comes from outside sources. I'm not entirely sure it could be remedied while keeping the gameplay the same; in this sort of game, diary-reading would just kill the tempo.

Like we mentioned in the first game, KZ2 and 3's gameplay became a lot more CoD-esque as part of an overcorrection to the complaints leveled against the first Killzone's somewhat turgid pace and stiff gameplay. Killzone: Shadow Fall does a lot better job of inserting lore directly into the game itself via audio log and intel collectables, but I'd hesitate to call the ancillary information "outside" sources, seeing as how it all comes straight from Guerrilla in one way or another.

I do see your point though, and it will be interesting to revisit this if/when we get around to doing Shadow Fall itself.

quote:

I'm tempted to say something like Killzone's friendly rival Resistance might be a better fit; the player is a lone character behind enemy lines, so there's an excuse not to be in firefights all the time and to search nooks and crannies. (Speaking of which, Resistance: Fall of Man is something that needs a decent LP. There's weird stuff going on with the story in that one.)

:ssh:

quote:

The other thing I'm wondering is...why was Natko written out of the story after Killzone 2? As you guys pointed out, he's introduced as an rear end, but when the chips are down he's willing to rise to the occasion. Could they not get the voice actor (though I don't see why that would stop them), or was it something else?

I'm not aware of any official statements on exactly why Natko was excised from single player (he's present in co-op as the Player 2 character, however; relegated to becoming Killzone 3's version of Liberation's Hakha), though I have a personal theory on that. Thematically speaking, Killzone 2 was about Rico's squad, specifically about Rico's squad falling apart under his godawful leadership. Killzone 3, meanwhile, is a more interpersonal game. It's all about direct binary relationships; Sev and Rico, Sev and Narville, Rico and Narville, Narville and Hooper, Rico and Jammer, Stahl and Orlock, etc. Throwing in Natko adds an unneeded third wheel into a lot of those relationships. The first third of the game is mostly focused on Sev and Rico figuring out how the hell they're going to live with one another in the wake of Rico ventilating Visari, and the lingering tension that one moment of frustrated stupidity leaves on their relationship, no matter how much Sev protests he's forgiven Rico.

And honestly, Natko really didn't offer much to the situation beyond unhelpful smartass comments and being an extra gun. He was always an outsider in the group. The strongest relationships were always between Sev and Garza, who were close friends and showed it often over the course of KZ2, and between Sev and Rico, where Sev slowly became the check to Rico's unhinging anger, eventually supplanting him in all but name as squad leader, as seen in the final confrontation with Visari.

So effectively from a narrative standpoint, there's just no room for Natko in this situation anymore.


quote:

It's sort of weird, isn't it? We've got Admiral Orlock with the mustache, and we've got Jorhan Stahl with the name. I wonder if Guerilla is just pilfering the historical library for associations to totalitarianism, or if there's something more is going to be developed.

It's both, but that's all I'll say about it for now. When we get a better look at the Senate in a couple of updates, you'll see the "Guerilla pilfering the historical library of fascist, communist, and totalitarian history" on better display, as several of the senators are modeled after Adolf Hitler, one is a dead ringer for Rudolf Hess, and two more are modeled after Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin.

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jun 19, 2016

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!
What the heck is a "Zeon"?

Gideon020
Apr 23, 2011

Blind Sally posted:

What the heck is a "Zeon"?

An Imperialistic Space Nazi.

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)
So, an Ultramarine?

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

Blind Sally posted:

What the heck is a "Zeon"?

Another space based fascistic group of people capable of memorable speeches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L03K2njcCrM

Rick_Hunter posted:

That's where you're wrong because even the Helghast sought to conquer Vekta as opposed to Zeon taking vacant colonies (because they gassed the inhabitants) and dropping them on the loving planet.

When pushed the German stand-ins in this game resort to nuking their own population centers. Zeon? Nukes other population centers from square one.

And yet people love to tell that both of them were really the good guys after all.
Relevant in this case:

Rick_Hunter
Jan 5, 2004

My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

Cooked Auto posted:

Another space based fascistic group of people capable of memorable speeches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L03K2njcCrM


And yet people love to tell that both of them were really the good guys after all.
Relevant in this case:


My dawg, that is loving beautiful.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Blind Sally posted:

What the heck is a "Zeon"?

Gundam bullshit.

Rick_Hunter
Jan 5, 2004

My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

nine-gear crow posted:

Gundam bullshit.

ANIME bullshit. :pseudo:

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)
Potato, potahto.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

Rick_Hunter posted:

ANIME bullshit. :pseudo:

GUNDAM ANIME bullshit. :spergin:

YOTC
Nov 17, 2005
Damn stupid newbie
Dropping colony's, the solution, and cause, of all space problems.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Cooked Auto posted:

GUNDAM ANIME bullshit. :spergin:

As opposed to the Illuminati (Gundam bullshit, but not anime bullshit), Saiyans (anime bullshit, but not Gundam bullshit) or the Rail Tracer (not actually bullshit at all).

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

HardDisk posted:

Ground floor.


She has some huge lady-balls to wear that in a warzone.

Knowing Helghan, there's probably a military grade shield generator hidden in those frills.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

Cythereal posted:

Knowing Helghan, there's probably a military grade shield generator hidden in those frills.

Well it's not like she can hide it anywhere else really. Unless you manage to hide it in all those dress folds.

VolticSurge
Jul 23, 2013

Just your friendly neighborhood photobomb raptor.




Love the little Ace Combat reference.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!

VolticSurge posted:

Love the little Ace Combat reference.

Wait, what? Where? That's just straight up pulled from the concept artist's website.

skullhead tethyis
Dec 30, 2015
killzone the third: What the gently caress is a Zeon?

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Blind Sally posted:

Wait, what? Where? That's just straight up pulled from the concept artist's website.

It's done up a one-sheet style that a few artists on DeviantArt and the like have used for depictions of planes from Ace Combat and other similar things.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!

nine-gear crow posted:

It's done up a one-sheet style that a few artists on DeviantArt and the like have used for depictions of planes from Ace Combat and other similar things.

:eyepop:

VolticSurge
Jul 23, 2013

Just your friendly neighborhood photobomb raptor.



Blind Sally posted:

Wait, what? Where? That's just straight up pulled from the concept artist's website.


nine-gear crow posted:

It's done up a one-sheet style that a few artists on DeviantArt and the like have used for depictions of planes from Ace Combat and other similar things.

Well,now I want a game about Cormorant Squadron's warcrimes adventures on Planet Notspain or whatever.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

VolticSurge posted:

Well,now I want a game about Cormorant Squadron's warcrimes adventures on Planet Notspain or whatever.

:barf:wedidthatonealready:barf:

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Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!

nine-gear crow posted:




There was even an animated .gif version that spun them all around like a senate pinwheel, but I seem to have lost it, sadly.

I spent the last night looking for this gif and I couldn't find it. It's truly a tragedy.

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