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Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Also not saying it's impossible, but it is highly improbable. What sense would it make in terms of balance to give a scum who is also potentially a PR, a chance at the shine lottery for a third ability?

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Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope


This both against you and for you, in that A. it proves your point, scum can be cops, but B. like I said, I'm a shine cop who is now vanilla and spent a shine clearing FL.

A very different role in the scope of that game and this game.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

This both against you and for you, in that A. it proves your point, scum can be cops, but B. like I said, I'm a shine cop who is now vanilla and spent a shine clearing FL.

A very different role in the scope of that game and this game.

Mafia Edit: This works*

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Also not saying it's impossible, but it is highly improbable. What sense would it make in terms of balance to give a scum who is also potentially a PR, a chance at the shine lottery for a third ability?

KB did the dirty work and proved you objectively wrong, and I'm not going to engage is setup spec about third abilities or whatever.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if you're scum with a shine role. You could be a goon who was allowed to participate in the lottery, I don't know. And ultimately it doesn't matter. We'll know when you flip.

##vote AA I don't feel like your claim is genuine and I am getting serious fake vibes from you and you're "I'm ready to die" posts.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Also not saying it's impossible, but it is highly improbable. What sense would it make in terms of balance to give a scum who is also potentially a PR, a chance at the shine lottery for a third ability?

This is fair btw. My own personal setup speculation would be that if scum were part of the lottery they were goons, not powered.

But Pod really goes out of his way to gently caress with people who try to game the mod, so I really wouldn't put anything past him.

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


Truth Quark posted:

KB did the dirty work and proved you objectively wrong, and I'm not going to engage is setup spec about third abilities or whatever.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if you're scum with a shine role. You could be a goon who was allowed to participate in the lottery, I don't know. And ultimately it doesn't matter. We'll know when you flip.

##vote AA I don't feel like your claim is genuine and I am getting serious fake vibes from you and you're "I'm ready to die" posts.

This second sentence is probably the worst english I've ever written and I am taking it as a sign that I need to go to bed, see you in the morning for better or for worse.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



TQ why does it matter if AA says "yes there can be a roled scum member who is also a shine cop." I don't understand why this is a sticking point.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Nooooo answer my question I am engaged now :C

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

It's well past my bedtime.

If you seriously think Podima would let a PR'd scum get a shine ability then I don't even know what to tell you. Like I said, I welcome my demise and I think TQ is scum

Going to be egg on a lot of people's faces when I flip, and I guarantee there will be scum riding along.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Also you seem to latch onto that first part of my response and nothing else in the post.

I'm fine being lynched this game. Don't have anything to lose and I'm not scum so my death might be useful albeit wasted.

BTW, in my reread just encountered this post.

This post seems to be in fundamental conflict with your claimed role. I know I personally wouldn't be so willing to die if I was a cop. And how would dying as a cop before you got to use it be in any way useful?

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

King Burgundy posted:

BTW, in my reread just encountered this post.

This post seems to be in fundamental conflict with your claimed role. I know I personally wouldn't be so willing to die if I was a cop. And how would dying as a cop before you got to use it be in any way useful?

I did use it or did you miss that too? Flying leatherman is outfit-aligned.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I did use it or did you miss that too? Flying leatherman is outfit-aligned.

When you made that post, you hadn't used it. It was D1.

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:


I'm leaving it at this, because the second sentence in that post got horribly mangled by my tired brain and doesn't really say what I was trying to say at all.

AA is trying very hard to argue that he couldn't possibly be anything other than Vanilla and I find it very strange. Couple it with his interactions with Infinitum yesterday, and the general fake vibe I get from his posting today, and I am concluding that he is scum who participated in the shine lottery and chose alignment cop.

The last part could be confirmation bias on my part, but at this point I genuinely think AA is scum.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Here's my reasoning.

Could be another town cop given lottery format.

Even if there isn't I confirmed at least one town

It would be silly to keep me alive now that I'm outed because I would either need a a brewer and a doctor to follow me for me to be viable by night 3, when there are probably better candidates.


And all that is provided the doctor has shine and there are town brewers left.

so my confirmation by death if it comes to it will help town id scum that are pretty brazenly scum imo.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



King Burgundy posted:

When you made that post, you hadn't used it. It was D1.

That is a very good catch. I am not sure I am buying that you were so convinced on D1 there were other town cops that you were willing to just say "I'm good, guys, nbd."

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Truth Quark posted:

I'm leaving it at this, because the second sentence in that post got horribly mangled by my tired brain and doesn't really say what I was trying to say at all.

AA is trying very hard to argue that he couldn't possibly be anything other than Vanilla and I find it very strange. Couple it with his interactions with Infinitum yesterday, and the general fake vibe I get from his posting today, and I am concluding that he is scum who participated in the shine lottery and chose alignment cop.

The last part could be confirmation bias on my part, but at this point I genuinely think AA is scum.

I think you're trying very hard to appear town so when I flip town, you can go hurrr I thought he was scum and get some sort of pass for your obstinance. Like I said, flip me.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Please just end the day turbo me, I'll even help if only to out these scrubs pushing real hard on an uncountered shine cop.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Please just end the day turbo me, I'll even help if only to out these scrubs pushing real hard on an uncountered shine cop.

Can you explain the frame of mind you were in on D1, before you had used your cop power and were so willing to die and thought it would be useful?

---

Also, I hate having to bring this up in every game, but if you are actually town, voting yourself only helps scum since it lets one less person stay off the vote.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Ok guess not.

I really should crash soon(more like an hour ago), so going to just post my in progress posts/unfinished thoughts from reread so I am free to fall asleep. Oh also, someone should send me shine. If I go another shine game without getting shine even once I'm going to be a super sad dude.

dongsbot 9000 posted:

i snooped absurd, adahn, aa, an, cpig, ccat and got positive result too

So looking at this again. This list would include one person who is either the boss of a 3p group or the boss of a mafia group if Inf's wasn't one or if there are two. And there is nothing stopping people on this list from also being in Inf's group for unrelated reasons. So really seems like a win/win to to go after people in this list as a priority, all else being equal, if we think any of them are scummy.

From that list, I wouldn't vote adahn or an currently, and makes sense to wait and see if we can lurker cuddle cat if she continues to not participate. So that leaves ar and cpig who I'm null on at the moment, and aa who I think is scum. Which feels like another good reason to vote him.

##vote AA

Other people I'm currently willing to vote for: Dawny, Moat(I don't have a strong enough experience with his meta to not vote him if other people are seeing what I was).

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



This also wasn't done, but posting what I had so far:

Ok after my reread feeling the following alignments:

Town:
TMM - Meta
Quid - Honest Visitor
Adahn - Seems like earnest but frequently wrong town based on posting, in general. Was right on Inf at one point though.
FL - If AA is actually telling the truth, FL is town. Wouldn't go after FL unless AA does indeed flip scum.

Not on Inf's team, which could mean town:
Flerp - This one post early on:

flerp posted:

ok so i think we should lynch infi because i dont think hes a town boss i think hes a scum boss that told us his results to try and garner favor while throwing shade on 4 people
TQ - Talked about already, but feels like he's not on the same team as Inf on this reread.

Scum:
AA
Dawny
Moat
Hal?

BTW, I know we were wrong on him, but I still think Glowku comes off scummy on a reread. :) I want to learn from my mistakes, but really I don't know how to read him differently in this game.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Did AA have so much heat on him at the beginning of the day that he needed to hail mary a cop claim?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



AA had a single vote on him and a soft push from AN that he was a person to keep looking at. I don't see him as scum, on the same team as Inf, waltzing in and going "A COP CLAIM WILL SAVE ME NOW" rather than just, you know, playing mafia or ignoring it.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Furthermore:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Infinitum could be scum, but I'm trusting him right now. In my aliens game, he was the most vocal player and scum, but I'm not getting the scummy vibes. I think he is legit.


Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I'm interested in dong's flip, and I think he might actually be scum this game who decided it would be best to come clean about his role instead of wait and try and sell it to town like a miller would sell their role to town.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Why not just vote infinitum over Adahn if we're trusting in Adahn?

idgi

##vote infinitum

He seems a bit too antagonistic, and not in a way that seems town.

I just lost a game with AA as scum who flipped and gave absolutely nothing to us regarding the alignment of his only other remaining scum member. It was Very Good Play. I don't see AA, as scum coming off of that game, suddenly mixing it up and completely ignoring his scum buddy to push a misdunk on a town member who was sure to flip or be copped or any sort of things moving forward. And then he moves on to Inf...and was there even a reason to do this, at the time? Was Inf a viable candidate? He moves off to Glowku and it doesn't look like a midday cred thing. I dunno, doesn't add up.

I am not ruling out Another Scum Alignment for AA in which he is also a cop, but until we have evidence of a third faction like last game I'm not buying that AA is the same alignment as Inf was and I think this is a bad vote.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



KB I don't see how in the same breath you are listing FL in your town list "if AA is telling the truth" and then vote him and call him scum. Not sitting right with me there, because it makes it look like you already know he is...

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



UHHHHHHHHH, also:

King Burgundy posted:

From that list, I wouldn't vote adahn or an currently, and makes sense to wait and see if we can lurker cuddle cat if she continues to not participate. So that leaves ar and cpig who I'm null on at the moment, and aa who I think is scum. Which feels like another good reason to vote him.

##vote AA

Other people I'm currently willing to vote for: Dawny, Moat(I don't have a strong enough experience with his meta to not vote him if other people are seeing what I was).


King Burgundy posted:

Ok after my reread feeling the following alignments:

Town:
TMM - Meta
Quid - Honest Visitor
Adahn - Seems like earnest but frequently wrong town based on posting, in general. Was right on Inf at one point though.
FL - If AA is actually telling the truth, FL is town. Wouldn't go after FL unless AA does indeed flip scum.

Not on Inf's team, which could mean town:
Flerp - This one post early on:

TQ - Talked about already, but feels like he's not on the same team as Inf on this reread.

Scum:
AA
Dawny
Moat
Hal?

AN is suddenly absent from your list when you said you had no interest in voting him. Why do you think AN is town?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Who supported AA N0?

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Quidnose posted:

AA had a single vote on him and a soft push from AN that he was a person to keep looking at. I don't see him as scum, on the same team as Inf, waltzing in and going "A COP CLAIM WILL SAVE ME NOW" rather than just, you know, playing mafia or ignoring it.

This is fair I guess, but he had a decent amount of heat on him D1 and you normally feel far more in trouble then you actually are when you are scum and people suspect you.

Quidnose posted:

Furthermore:

I just lost a game with AA as scum who flipped and gave absolutely nothing to us regarding the alignment of his only other remaining scum member. It was Very Good Play. I don't see AA, as scum coming off of that game, suddenly mixing it up and completely ignoring his scum buddy to push a misdunk on a town member who was sure to flip or be copped or any sort of things moving forward. And then he moves on to Inf...and was there even a reason to do this, at the time? Was Inf a viable candidate? He moves off to Glowku and it doesn't look like a midday cred thing. I dunno, doesn't add up.

I am not ruling out Another Scum Alignment for AA in which he is also a cop, but until we have evidence of a third faction like last game I'm not buying that AA is the same alignment as Inf was and I think this is a bad vote.

These seem like typical scum behavior to me. I don't see anything there that a scum wouldn't do with his teammate. You seem to be biased based on a game with AA I didn't experience, so I can't speak to that.

Quidnose posted:

KB I don't see how in the same breath you are listing FL in your town list "if AA is telling the truth" and then vote him and call him scum. Not sitting right with me there, because it makes it look like you already know he is...

It's a no brainer and simple logic. I don't trust AA, but until I know that I'm right that he's scum, it is irresponsible for me to consider FL as an option.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Quid, I appreciate you are actually trying now. I'm pretty bummed that you are doing it at me when I really need to sleep, but ok.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



KB on Inf:

First mention:

King Burgundy posted:

I'm still not really sure what to think, but inf does come off looking a bit worse for misleading about his ability/role. I'd kinda like to hear more from him on that in light of everything dong has said.

This looks almost identical to the hedge AA dropped as scum in Ferngully.

Then Viva comments way later:

VivaNova posted:

Infin misrepresented his role initially. However, I understand that as a boss he wants others bosses dead, and if he really is town aligned, he might believe that no rival bosses are as well. Currently he has it in his head that adahn is a scum boss, though I feel there's insufficient evidence to back this up on both counts. Most of the points in his case are plainly wrong or super reaching. I would very much like to kill him for poor casing and arguably anti-town play. For mechanics reasons, I'm not sure it's a great idea to kill a boss today though. I'm open to discussing this.

Also a major hedge.

And suddenly:

King Burgundy posted:

Mg isn't in this game.

Agree on inf.

What does KB agree on here? That he's scummy but we shouldn't kill him? Or that he's scummy? This is a non-committal. Looks more like he's cooling on Inf but who knows, because he doesn't say what he means.

And apparently that is what he means because when TQ floats only Glowku, AA, or "voting Adahn to prove Inf is an idiot:"

King Burgundy posted:

Yeah these are the best votes right now.

Seems to be playing into a narrative of moving away from Inf while doing something that benefits him, and also contradicts a previous point:

King Burgundy posted:

I think Adahn is likely what he says he is.

Why float Adahn as viable here? KB's play D1 looking very very unengaged which is surprising because I've rolled into the thread now and he's been 1. active and 2. encouraging me to look at the game. Buddying?

Reading more.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



King Burgundy posted:

I agreed with Viva 100% on that. I thought there was no reason to dive into the boss drama and off one of them yesterday since I figured the night would clear things up some, and it did. If I had to vote one of them, I was on the record that Inf would be the right choice, but I didn't think we should.

Aaaaaaaaaaand this is a lie. :siren: LIE FOUND WRAP IT UP :siren:

##vote KB

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Quidnose posted:

UHHHHHHHHH, also:

AN is suddenly absent from your list when you said you had no interest in voting him. Why do you think AN is town?

You got the part where I said these were unfinished thoughts that I hadn't finished since I hadn't finished my reread, right?

Is there something you aren't understanding about "unfinished"?

To answer your question anyway, AN had made some points that I agreed with, you can see in my post history at least one example of this, probably. But on reread it wasn't as concrete to me, so I hadn't added her to that other post yet and its possible I would have even changed my mind. I don't know yet. Since I hadn't finished my reread.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



King Burgundy posted:

To answer your question anyway, AN had made some points that I agreed with, you can see in my post history at least one example of this, probably. But on reread it wasn't as concrete to me, so I hadn't added her to that other post yet and its possible I would have even changed my mind. I don't know yet. Since I hadn't finished my reread.

:siren: THIS IS A LIE :siren:

You mention AN zero times before today where you say you would not vote for her.

You quote AN three times: twice in jokes phase, and one to agree with her talking about AA:

King Burgundy posted:

Yeah, that chain of AA posts also made me wonder. There was nothing there.

Where did you get such a strong read of her that she is on your "would not vote her from that list of suspicious people" list?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



ALSO:

King Burgundy posted:

It's a no brainer and simple logic. I don't trust AA, but until I know that I'm right that he's scum, it is irresponsible for me to consider FL as an option.

This looks like a fake read to me. Logically, if you don't know AA's alignment, you wouldn't put him on your list because you shouldn't be making connections to unflipped players.

If AA DOES flip scum, then his mentioning FL is a nulltell - he could be doing it to confirm a town member (obvious for wifom), he could be doing it to give a pass to a scum member (ballsy but possible). In that case, he wouldn't be on your town list, right?

The ONLY WAY I am seeing you look at this and going "well FL is probably town because why wouldn't we trust AA" is if you believed AA was the cop - and that not only goes against your entire thread of working up to voting for him, but even if you TRULY TRULY BELIEVED him, as town that's always like 99%, and then you would be saying "I believe AA and I therefore believe FL is town unless AA flips scum."

There's no way you word it the other way; that's weird as hell, contradicts your apparent line of thought, and contradicts basic mafia logic. Sorry buddy.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Sigh.

Sigh. Sometimes you can be insufferable, Quid. No lies here. But watch as I stay up even later and fall asleep during my meetings tomorrow because your sense of timing is horrible and your scumdar is broken.

Quidnose posted:

What does KB agree on here? That he's scummy but we shouldn't kill him? Or that he's scummy? This is a non-committal. Looks more like he's cooling on Inf but who knows, because he doesn't say what he means.

I meant I agreed with everything she said on inf. I mention it later in thread again when MMT tries to go after Viva for that post. I agreed 100% with every word she said on Inf. Summary of which was Inf is scummy, but not sure I want to go after bosses yet.

Quidnose posted:


And apparently that is what he means because when TQ floats only Glowku, AA, or "voting Adahn to prove Inf is an idiot:"


Seems to be playing into a narrative of moving away from Inf while doing something that benefits him, and also contradicts a previous point:

Hmmm, this is a fair point only because I wasn't clear. I was responding to Glowku's two votes, Glowku or AA. Voting Adahn to prove inf is an idiot is nothing I would be on board with. I noticed that on a reread and was one of the only things I saw TQ post that I had a problem with.


Quidnose posted:

Why float Adahn as viable here? KB's play D1 looking very very unengaged which is surprising because I've rolled into the thread now and he's been 1. active and 2. encouraging me to look at the game. Buddying?

Reading more.

Right, and this is why it should be obvious I wasn't encouraging an Adahn vote. I've thought he was very town pretty consistently.

Also, in case you somehow didn't read, I am out of town. I am in meetings all day. My only time to contribute is at night. Most of the posts you are quoting were made mid travlel, at the airport, on my phone, etc. Thus the difference in posting. This is all stuff that is in the thread, which you would have noticed if you had been engaged earlier.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

We'll let people decide in the morning. I think I got you pretty good but I have been wrong before~

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Quidnose posted:

Aaaaaaaaaaand this is a lie. :siren: LIE FOUND WRAP IT UP :siren:

##vote KB

Nope. It's not. You yourself quoted where I was on the record by saying I agreed with Viva.

Juchero
Feb 15, 2008




Wedge Regret

someone case me so i have something to say

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!



King Burgundy posted:

Nope. It's not. You yourself quoted where I was on the record by saying I agreed with Viva.

Except you didn't, because I have no idea what you agreed with there. You do a very good job on D1 of not really committing to Inf at all, then turn around on D2 and act like you were suspicious of him all day. IF that is true, you did not show your work. People can read your D1 post history and see that, easily.

I do not think that is true.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~




##vote aa

That's a good catch that he said he isn't useful to town in any way during day 1 before he did any investigations. I don't buy a cop posting this at all.

Absurd Revolver posted:

someone case me so i have something to say

you smell like poop therefore you're scum

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ADBOT LOVES YOU

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!



Quidnose posted:

:siren: THIS IS A LIE :siren:

You mention AN zero times before today where you say you would not vote for her.

You quote AN three times: twice in jokes phase, and one to agree with her talking about AA:


Where did you get such a strong read of her that she is on your "would not vote her from that list of suspicious people" list?

Also not a lie. You literally, again, quote the post where I mention I agreed with her. Like if anyone is lying here it is you. You are saying I haven't mentioned AN before today, but you actually quote the post where I agree with her. Like, what?

Do you not see how someone stating before I had a chance to, exactly what I was seeing, about someone I think is scum, would make me think they are town? Really? (Also this sentence is horrible but I can't figure out a way to construct it better. You have succeeded in breaking my poor brain. Thanks.)

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