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  • Locked thread
Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

hi, can I play?

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Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Adahn1986 posted:

I was thinking this. If infin is a scum boss, he gets 4 town lynches out of his reveal. That's a huge step ahead for the scum team.


I dont like this, not just because it's naively assuming nothing will change for the next 4 days but also because it is a huge extension from "throwing shade", like flerp said, to "getting 4 town lynches".

So, given that that's not a real benefit, I don't really understand where the scum motivation would be in revealing the boss mechanic.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

dongsbot 9000 posted:

i snooped absurd, adahn, aa, an, cpig, ccat and got positive result too

Adahn, if you're not a boss, who do you think is?

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

If there's an Outfit-aligned boss, seems to me that there'd have to be at least one rival boss that wasn't Outfit-aligned, or there's really not much point to the role. (FWIW, right now I feel like dongs is most likely town - there was no reason to claim so quickly if he wasn't, to my mind. I don't think a scum player would reveal that information as quickly. Similarly, I'd guess that the boss within dongs's results is probably not outfit-aligned, for similar reasons. I'm not sure about Inf yet because I haven't read super closely, but I'm reading through his posts again today.) That said, the talk about "one boss of each faction / bosses are all different factions" seems overly speculative to me. SSV, you specifically have brought that up a few times now. Why are you so confident that that's the way this is set up?

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Adahn1986 posted:

Lol infin and dongs fullclaimed town - aligned boss, which means (I would not presume to tell players how to play their roles) they can find a third boss from dongs list.

Nobody cc'd town boss so at least one of them is telling the truth

Right. That's what I was trying to ask - who do you think from dongs's list is a boss if it's not you?

(Like I said, I'm pretty sure the boss from that list is not outfit aligned, so that's kind of where I'm trying to look right now).

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

I find Adahn's roleclaim completely plausible based on information that I have. I'm beginning to think that this is a town slapfight.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Infinitum posted:

So? My list can potentially find more than 1 boss?

You get positive results if at least one person is a boss.

Right, but since dongs claimed, we can't say definitively one way or the other. Adahn is right that only dongs's list is useful. It's not like your positive result increased the likelihood of the other 3 dudes on your list being bosses

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Truth Quark posted:

I actually am really starting to think this is Infinitum's scum game but I would rather wait before we lynch any bosses.

##vote Flying Leatherman

I've been around most of the morning, friend.

At the moment, I'd rather lynch into the remainder of dongsbot's list (AR, AA, AN, Cpig, Cat); as I stated before, I have a feeling that there's a non-town boss somewhere in that list. Adahn's claim is believable to me based on game information that I have.

Of those, I'd be most interested in AA right now. ANarc made a good point that the "drunk reread" was more of a summary than commentary (I believe that was the phrasing used), and I tend to agree. Cpig reads like Cpig to me, I don't have anything from Cat yet to make a decision, Anarc made some good points (the "assassin" thing does feel like a semantic point especially after this came out), and while AR's been relatively quiet so far there hasn't been anything overtly scummy per se.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Quidnose posted:

I really think we should be scumhunting instead of blindly following lists of people who's alignments we do not know. This post reeks of capitalizing on this distraction and going after a whole bunch of chaindunks without taking any responsibility for doing so. Would vote FL.

Eh. I explained why I think it's a good idea, and I have no reason to believe I'm wrong (three Outfit-aligned bosses, while possible, doesn't seem likely to me - not without a ton of bosses). I've also already explained why I don't think the boss or bosses in dongsbot's list are not outfit aligned.

I'm not advocating chain lynching. I do think that the people not named Adahn in dongsbot's list have been overlooked and think we should be looking carefully at them. I do think AA would be the best candidate of those today.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Oh hey a bunch of lottery posts. That changes things, maybe.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

So the players left on the list that we haven't accounted for are Anarc, Cpig and Cat right? I still have a town read on Anarc and the last page of stuff makes me feel a little bit better about AA. I don't think that everyone in the shine lottery is necessarily town - that would be a really silly way to be able to confirm a ton of people - but I agree with something someone said earlier that probably bosses weren't in it.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

I'd rather ##vote Glowku than AA, at least after all this loved stuff came up. A good part of why I was looking at AA in the first place was the whole dongsbot boss list thing and I don't think it makes sense for a boss to be involved in the shine lottery / loved shenanigans.

L-3, by the way.

dongsbot 9000 posted:

if you had access to nominate a name for a vig, who would you nominate (content question thats also real life for me)

curiousCat, for being absent and for being one of the folks left unaccounted for on your d1 list.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

oop, -2 rather with ANarc's vote

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Just caught up. AA, I will admit to not understanding your target choice; with a choice of all the lurkers in the game, why pick me to investigate? I'm no expert but looking at filters it seems like a weird choice.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

I started looking at Li Dawny after reading MMT's post, and something jumped out at me while I was reading.

Li Dawny posted:

[...]we do have 9 hours, so is voting absolutely necessary right now? It's still so early that most people haven't checked in.

Li Dawny posted:

Okay, we need to all figure out who we are/are not willing to vote today because I'm having genuine concern over if we're going to get a lynch in today.

This happened in the space of slightly over two hours and one page. It feels manufactured, being over that short of a timeframe. I don't see anything in the intervening posts that would make it that much more important to get votes consolidated and get a train rolling.

##vote Li Dawny

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

King Burgundy posted:

Btw this is all you have to offer the conversation?

I was going to say something about Cat earlier, but at this point I'd advocate just getting the free lurker lynch tomorrow if things keep up.

But yeah, certainly worth noting that the few posts that they've made are completely content-free.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Li Dawny posted:

I had assumed people were going to weigh in, which didn't really happen, so I got concerned. Why is that so hard to imagine?

It seems odd to me that in the space of two hours you suddenly discovered a pressing need to get lynch discussion started after being so disconcerted by having votes on the board. Even the initial concern seems weird, because it's not like we were in the middle of a turbo or something.

Li Dawny posted:

I wanted a conversation started, not votes put up

If you're trying to discuss who to lynch, at least in my experience, votes tend to happen as part of that process, so what you're saying here doesn't make sense to me either.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Li Dawny posted:

The votes that were applied before the conversation were weakly supported (at best) and we were getting kinda close to a turbo(not immediately a threat when I posted it, but would have been an easy push had scum tried). You can lynch me for trying to prevent a turbo so that we had time to scum hunt, but that's a pretty dumb reason.

If I'm reading the thread right, at the time, Adahn had 3 votes on him, which was L-10

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Li Dawny posted:

Right, and if we we do even the lightest of set up spec (which I don't usually do but fine) there are around six scum total (on average scum makes up about 1/4 of the player population) which could have put him as far as -4. And if a few scum made decent case posts grabbing an extra four townies as we approach the deadline isn't unreasonable. That's why I believe in conversation before voting, which is what I was trying to get across.

In what universe are all 6 or however many of the scum, especially when they may or may not even be on the same team (speculation), going to make a coordinated jump like that on day one? Also, why would everyone already on Adahn at that time necessarily have to be town?

Preview edit:

tpink posted:

I love this idea of the world's most coordinated and dumbest scum team where ALL OF THEM quickly jump on a -10 vote to bring it to a -4.

Basically, what he said

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Li Dawny posted:

Okay so I was working off of worst case scenario, but I think that's the best way to play Mafia.

the situation described is not one I would describe as "worst case" from a town-aligned perspective

in fact, it's arguably a situation that would only arise if the scum team is composed of robots who have an overriding directive of "lynch dudes not us regardless of consequences"

My point is, I am not seeing logical consistency here

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

W/r/t AA, my two cents are that we should look elsewhere today and resolve it tomorrow if necessary.

Adahn, I don't think - and I think someone else already said this - that we can necessarily assume everyone in the lottery is vanilla town. If a scumbo who participated in the lottery sees other people saying "yeah I'm vanilla and was in the lottery" what are they realistically going to say?

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

I don't really buy the honest visitor claim. Quid started with 3 shine as an honest visitor, and visiting the guy who died N1 is pretty convenient. It doesn't add up to me.

Sorry I wasn't around last game day. Not going to make excuses for myself.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Also, I think the following will be helpful:

I inherited Glowku's role. I can confirm that brewing works exactly as Moat described it, which is why I feel safe confirming this - there's no way for me to replenish my Shine stash, and I was able to give out one Shine (I gave it to Adahn on night 2). I have no Shine remaining, so I'm back to being Vanilla.

Something else that wandered through my brain last night is that I'm not sure that shine backups or brewers are necessarily Outfit-aligned, especially since scum had at least one Shine role (confirmed by the rolecop flip).

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

(I forgot! For some mild hints that I am who I say I am, look at how I said I had information (linked post + the next couple) that made me confident in believing Adahn's roleclaim back on Day 1.)

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Moatillata posted:

Are you throwing shade on quid or anarc with this post? It is ambiguous.

Sorry. I am saying that I don't believe ANarc.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Quidnose posted:

....did I announce how much shine I started with? I didn't think I had.

yes

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Nobody announced voting for ANarc as far as I could find. ANarc did say they voted for Quid.

Still trying to find anyone claiming to vote for AA but nothing yet.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I'm still skeptical of the claim, but perhaps the support you got was shine which would make sense given that I had no support and just had the 1 starting shine.

I still need to answer VN's questions but that won't happen until late tonight.

Counterargument: Adahn claimed that he was loved, but didn't start with any shine. (He claimed to receive one Shine from inheriting a role, which is the same thing that happened to me, and he also got one Shine from my brew action). He was a backup, but I'd think the mechanic would be consistent if votes did equate to starting Shine.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

SirSamVimes posted:

Maybe backups can't start with any shine due to the mechanic of inheriting shine?

"You can get loved if people vote you in the Shine lottery pregame, and you'll get some Shine too, except if you're a backup" seems weird to me. I would expect it to work the same for everybody.

(Also, you don't inherit all the Shine from the previous holder of your role, just one).

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

##vote ANarc

i feel like even day 1 if you really wanted to confirm yourself there would have been better options. there was some amount of ambiguity over what bosses were town, or whether any of them were.

There are just a lot of things that don't add up to me.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Truth Quark posted:

Oh, FL confirmed how Moat's brewer worked and also claims he inherited Glowku's role.

Its technically possible for the scum team to have a universal shine backup but I doubt it.

I actually disagree with this. I think that scum does have a backup. I mean, it's possible that scum was assigned explicit Shine roles, but the rolecop flip shows that at least one of them was involved in the Shine lottery, and to my mind that at least makes it possible if not likely that they also have something for the backup mechanic.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

To be honest, out of the claimed backups, I'm still not sold on LD being town . I know she said she wouldn't be around much but even before then she did have a habit of just coming in whenever someone voted her. I said earlier that I think there's a scum backup and I think she might be the scum backup.

I'm not advocating a switch today - I still think Anarc is the right candidate today - but I think we should look at LD tomorrow.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Was that hammer?

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

oh, hey, deadline's tonight.

People who I'm currently looking at are LD (still) and probably AA. LD because my goodness there's probably less content there than what I've posted in this game which is saying something; AA because as time goes on I'm increasingly suspicious that scum would actually leave a cop alive this long.

I mean, think about it. AA claims cop and out of shine, which means there are a minimum of two nights before another investigation, (a brewer gives him another Shine on the immediate next night and he investigates the following night, best case). I don't believe we've had any blocked scum kills, so they've been targeting other people. Unless they know something I don't about how many brewers were initially in this game, which I doubt, this seems like risky plays. If this was still, like, day 3, I'd be less susp, but at this point it makes me think something hinky's going on.

I don't think MMT is scum. I really don't think a scum points out that breadcrumb. I don't see the motivation anywhere.

I read SSV as inheriting Hal's role.

##vote LD for now, I'm still filtering people though.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Actually, something just popped into my head. LD, we're on day 5. Since backups only get one shine, I'm imagining you've picked up and used a role by now. What did you do / did you get any useful results?

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

JimsonTheBetrayer posted:

Ugh fine. Ill claim

I am a role cop. I got it from the lottery I guess. Idk podog messaged me and was like LOL PICK A ROLE so I said I wanted 2 be a role cop. I got 1 shine for the shine gods.

D1 I investigated Kb so you can imagine why I wouldn't wanna claim it then. And after d2.

Somewhere in here I got shine. Not sure who from... Maybe one of the redirected flerp put on me?

D2 I investigated Mmt and she came up Shine Back up.

I don't buy this at all. ##vote Jimson

W/r/t buddying up: This happened D2, and with the amount of pressure on LD at the time (very little) I'm inclined to think I might have been wrong about LD.

Also, LD's posts recently have read more as honest frustration to me, so there's that too.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

christ, that's -1 already ##unvote

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

I'm believing MMT over Jimson for a couple reasons. First, despite what Jimson's posted I still have an enormous amount of trouble seeing MMT calling out the Hal crumb as anything but town motivated. Second, I just went back and filtered MMT, and she's made cases, explained her reasoning behind votes, and generally seems like she's playing a town game to me.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Truth Quark posted:

SSV and CPig - did you inherit a role and if so when and what?

ssv inherited spymaster based on his post earlier today

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Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.


Fun Shoe

Truth Quark posted:

Still would like to know when and from whom SSV inherited his spymaster though.

Wait, whoa. You're on to something here.

Hal died last night. There have been no other Spymaster deaths. (On that note, Pod, can you update the death post?)

SSV claimed backup. Backups can only inherit flipped roles in the phase immediately following the flip. Therefore SSV couldn't use his role until the night after he got it because inheriting expends his action for that phase. I know this to be true because, hey, I'm a USB too!

So yeah, that's a huge glaring inconsistency.

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