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Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

You're right, that wouldn't be very heroic of me. It's a good thing I never called myself a hero!



The actual twist was that the guy he killed was a shitbag, and his killer wasn't just a murdering dickhole. You're not supposed to be surprised that he was the killer.

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Dog Fat Man Chaser
Jan 13, 2009

maybe being miserable
is not unpredictable
maybe that's
the problem
with me


Kajeesus posted:

The actual twist was that the guy he killed was a shitbag, and his killer wasn't just a murdering dickhole. You're not supposed to be surprised that he was the killer.

See, maybe I'm just too jaded about this stuff, but even that seemed weak to me. I didn't guess that part coming but "oh he was actually a bad guy too!" seems the next obvious step, and though I didn't see it coming, when it was revealed I didn't feel surprised or anything, I thought "oh yeah of course that's where they went with it".

I dunno, the writing just didn't work for me at all.

Orv
May 4, 2011

"To. Ya' know. Stuff."
(Nazi Rank <3)


Orv posted:

Almost every single quest was some flavor of Obvious Bad Guy, Obvious Good Guy, skip ahead, Oh No Good Guy Is Bad!

Nobodies going to convince anybody else here, we should probably just spend the next two years getting mad about Tyranny instead.

Count Uvula
Dec 20, 2011


Darkhold posted:

Personally I thought it was fine with a few major flaws. I wasn't really looking for anything that caught me off guard but I did really enjoy Eldar's 'I guess I'll never find out WTF was up with my brother. Guess I'll just have to live with it' which I don't recall seeing before. I will be really saddened if that's resolved in a sequel or something.

The central theme to Pillars of Eternity is that humans are obsessive, and when you become obsessed the resolution is either lacking compared to the one you imagined or just never comes. Though this applies to every companion (having not played the DLC much) to varying degrees, Eder's my favorite because he was just waiting to die until he lucked in to running in to you. Him getting excited about possibly finding some closure is the only reason he didn't just end up hanged in Gilded Vale.

Parenthesis
Jan 3, 2013


Chadzok posted:

is ropekid involved? will he be popping in here periodically to quell nerdrage?

I don't think so, at least he is not in charge of the project as that is Brian Heins.

SoggyBobcat
Oct 2, 2013


Dog Fat Man Chaser posted:

I remember having a very similar experience, though. As soon as this guy talked about his dead friend I thought "you killed him you're the bad guy" and surprise. They went for a twist and took the easiest option they had, and this kept happening so often that I didn't bother to finish the game as it felt so predictable. Every quest (or at least enough that it felt like it) seemed to have this "whoa shocking twist!!!" moment that you could see coming a mile away because it was the most cliche option.
Huh? What the hell do you expect from your RPG sidequests? Would that quest have been better if it was just taking revenge on the bear and bringing its pelt back to the friend?

Leinadi
Sep 14, 2009


ropekid is with 99.9% certainty working on Pillars of Eternity 2.

I'm not a huge fan of where they appear to be taking Tyranny when it comes to the combat gameplay (though it's easier to see what's going which is certainly welcome) but the game world, premise and choices & consequences focus are promising. I hope they will deliver on those.

ceaselessfuture
Apr 9, 2005

"I'm thirty," I said. "I'm five years too old to lie to myself and call it honor."


SoggyBobcat posted:

Huh? What the hell do you expect from your RPG sidequests? Would that quest have been better if it was just taking revenge on the bear and bringing its pelt back to the friend?

There will always be the idiotic faction of IT AIN'T BALDUR'S GATE diehards

Dog Fat Man Chaser
Jan 13, 2009

maybe being miserable
is not unpredictable
maybe that's
the problem
with me


SoggyBobcat posted:

Huh? What the hell do you expect from your RPG sidequests? Would that quest have been better if it was just taking revenge on the bear and bringing its pelt back to the friend?

Situations I haven't seen before in a bunch of other games. For all its (very numerous and damning) faults, this was the one thing I think Inquisitor did right. The Witcher games are also pretty good about it. To be honest, that quest might just be an archetype you can't do anything new with, so having it happen so early on maybe isn't the best option to make great first impressions. But again, it might have worked really well for some people, I just found it boring.

ceaselessfuture posted:

There will always be the idiotic faction of IT AIN'T BALDUR'S GATE diehards

I don't know where you got the idea I didn't like PoE because it wasn't Baldur's Gate, I never said anything of the sort. I don't even really like BG all that much, to be honest, I've finished them once and thought they were good but not the best thing ever. It's pretty dumb to assume that because someone doesn't like something you do, they must be a crazed fanboy for something else.

Dog Fat Man Chaser fucked around with this message at Jun 24, 2016 around 14:02

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Orv posted:

So do I, it's a cool concept that video games seem extra suited to do weird stuff with.


Oh man, you're right, I don't have eidetic memory for things I didn't enjoy. The main point stands whether I remember the particulars or not, the guy opened his mouth that his partner was killed by a bear and oh surprise you did it, didn't you guy who made it.

No sorry guy you don't get to pull this card when the entire crux of your argument was wrong on almost every detail.

Don't double down like a retard just gracefully move on to a different topic.

Airfoil
Sep 10, 2013

I'm a rocket man


Arzachel posted:

It made a lot of people find out that they don't actually like reading or gameplay in their RPGs.

It had the opposite affect on me.

Compare to Witcher 3 which, while much better written that your average Bioware game, is mostly an exercise in watching cut scenes.

idonotlikepeas
May 29, 2010

This reasoning is possible for forums user idonotlikepeas!


Leinadi posted:

I'm not a huge fan of where they appear to be taking Tyranny when it comes to the combat gameplay (though it's easier to see what's going which is certainly welcome) but the game world, premise and choices & consequences focus are promising. I hope they will deliver on those.

This is pretty much where I am with it. I've grown disenchanted with use-based skill systems in general, I prefer a larger party to a smaller one, etc. But the world sounds really, really interesting, and if they can actually nail the feeling of being a lieutenant in the Army of Evil, it's going to provide a unique experience. I also really like the idea of the world being vastly changed by things that happen in the story, and even during character creation. (One interview mentioned going to a town with two different characters and having it be totally different based on how the war went during character gen.)

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011


I never got engaged enough in PoE to keep playing it after 6 hours or so. Like, i enjoyed the look and to an extent how it played but it really did just feel like everything came down to being able to apply the right status effect for the occasion.

Cautiously optimistic about this though.

basic hitler
Dec 28, 2006

IF YOU SEE ME BITCHING ABOUT BEING POOR ITS PROBABLY BECAUSE IM OUT OF HEROIN AGAIN


Dog Fat Man Chaser posted:

I remember having a very similar experience, though. As soon as this guy talked about his dead friend I thought "you killed him you're the bad guy" and surprise. They went for a twist and took the easiest option they had, and this kept happening so often that I didn't bother to finish the game as it felt so predictable. Every quest (or at least enough that it felt like it) seemed to have this "whoa shocking twist!!!" moment that you could see coming a mile away because it was the most cliche option.

I think the ending reveal is pretty neat, lore-wise i've never read much like it. I HAVE NOT PLAYED MANY OLD PARTY BASED CRPGS ASIDE FROM Fallout 1/2 . Maybe that's why?

For story, a lot of smaller stuff in the dyrwood is really typical stuff, predictable stuff, but the motivations matter less as the gameplay is quite fun. Animancy lore, and the lore around the Gods and such are really cool to find out. I think if you're the kind of guy who likes isometric RPGs, you can't do worse in 2016 in a crowdsourced homage to that bygone era of gaming.

If Tyranny is at least as good as PoE I'm still getting it. If it's better, that's fine, but I like obsidian, they always scratch an itch I didn't know I had.

ceaselessfuture
Apr 9, 2005

"I'm thirty," I said. "I'm five years too old to lie to myself and call it honor."


The number one thing I wanted from PoE was a diverse system where you could make muscle wizards and scholar barbarians and Duelist themed Rogues and shotgun Paladins and a 6 Moon Godlike Chanter Rock Band and they absolutely, completely delivered on that front. If Tyranny has a similarly deep system, I'll probably love it.

I thought PoE's story was generic fantasy fare, but I really appreciated the companions and I felt they made the journey worth it. I realized midway through that I was more interested in helping my team with their stories than my own, but I was honestly fine with it. The fact all their stories tied into the big reveal at the end was well done.

Yes, I even liked Grieving Mother.

goldjas
Feb 22, 2009

I HATE ALL FORMS OF FUN AND ENTERTAINMENT. I HATE BEAUTY. I AM GOLDJAS.

I liked PoE and the reveal at the end, I also liked that even with that reveal, the world still more or less worked the same and it was just an interesting fact, but yet was a big deal.

Not every sidequest was the best thing ever, but even in The Witcher 3 (my other favorite RPG in recent memory) some sidequests weren't super great, so that's to be expected.

I thought the gameplay was pretty solid as well.

So, looking forward to this here video game.

Jack2142
Jul 17, 2014

Shitposting in Seattle


I actually need to finish PoE, considering that really have enjoyed every Obsidian game... even Alpha Protocol which had alot of detractors (Seriously I want to have that dialogue system rather than Biowares derp).

This game sounds promising, fantasy settings where evil already won or the apocalypse happened are a ton of fun. Age of Damnation was awesome, but combat was frustratingly unfun despite the worldbuilding and plot being awesome (if your character is smart enough to figure poo poo out since you don't get handed answers and alot of the game is obtuse as gently caress). So yeah I definitely will buy this also not enough games are set in the Bronze Age, which really fits well for a character RPG since the Bronze Age combat from what I read revolved around a handful of Bronze Armored Champions/Kings/Lords just absolutely wrecking normal soldiers because metal weapons and armor were so rare most soldiers didn't have it.

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008


ceaselessfuture posted:

The number one thing I wanted from PoE was a diverse system where you could make muscle wizards and scholar barbarians and Duelist themed Rogues and shotgun Paladins and a 6 Moon Godlike Chanter Rock Band and they absolutely, completely delivered on that front. If Tyranny has a similarly deep system, I'll probably love it.

Agreed 100% on all counts here. As for the story, I've played a whole bucketload of RPGs, isometric or otherwise, and I thought PoE was good, if a little heavy on the lore dumps, though the theme of 'obsession to the point of madness 'was carried off well. It wasn't just with the antagonist either, everything- from Grieving Mother's personal quest to that quest to recover Wael's property, to the whole of White March- carried those undertones. Also being able to actually roleplay a character (albeit within the confines of a video game) was p. much super-cool too, especially since [dialogue] options sometimes didn't lead to an optimal conclusion.

Accordion Man
Nov 7, 2012


One thing I liked about PoE's writing is how you developed your past life's personality through dialogue like you did the Exile in KOTOR 2 and the game took it into account.

X_Toad
Apr 2, 2011


CommissarMega posted:

Agreed 100% on all counts here. As for the story, I've played a whole bucketload of RPGs, isometric or otherwise, and I thought PoE was good, if a little heavy on the lore dumps, though the theme of 'obsession to the point of madness 'was carried off well. It wasn't just with the antagonist either, everything- from Grieving Mother's personal quest to that quest to recover Wael's property, to the whole of White March- carried those undertones. Also being able to actually roleplay a character (albeit within the confines of a video game) was p. much super-cool too, especially since [dialogue] options sometimes didn't lead to an optimal conclusion.
I think Obsidian has acknowledged all the flaws in the writing and the lore dumps and I hope they will be able to do better next time. I'm not sure right now how I feel about the solution to lore dumps used in Tyranny (highlighted words will open a popup with a small lore exposition) but that shows that they've taken it to heart.

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008


X_Toad posted:

I think Obsidian has acknowledged all the flaws in the writing and the lore dumps and I hope they will be able to do better next time. I'm not sure right now how I feel about the solution to lore dumps used in Tyranny (highlighted words will open a popup with a small lore exposition) but that shows that they've taken it to heart.

Personally, I honestly think it's the best way to present info quickly, without having to write reams of extra dialogue or to hide it in extraneous menus. Where did you hear they were going to be doing this?

X_Toad
Apr 2, 2011


CommissarMega posted:

Personally, I honestly think it's the best way to present info quickly, without having to write reams of extra dialogue or to hide it in extraneous menus. Where did you hear they were going to be doing this?
I can't remember, it was in a few of the many previews we've had this week, but you're in luck, it's mentioned in this one which just appeared today : http://www.entertainmentbuddha.com/...gment-required/

And I can distinctly remember the highlighted words in the video demonstration and me wondering what it meant.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

You're right, that wouldn't be very heroic of me. It's a good thing I never called myself a hero!



Highlighted words is probably the best way to do background exposition once it gets to a certain weight.

Leinadi
Sep 14, 2009


You can see it in one of the videos (well, not the description but the fact that some words in the dialogue are highlighted) and I believe it's mentioned in some previews as well. There have been plenty coming out these last few days though they mostly cover the same things.
I like the idea of the highlighting system but I hope there will be an option to turn it off for replays. And hopefully there'll be a codex type of deal where you can look up stuff like in PoE.

I quite liked the PoE story. There are a few things that unfortunately don't come together as well as they should (the Watcher going mad for example) and I think that hurts it overall. But I really enjoyed it all in all. And while I personally would've wanted a more "unique" world I think they did really well in building it and keeping fantasy tropes yet having them still be interesting. I'm eager to see where the sequel will have in store.

Still, since Tyranny is made by a separate team afaik, whether or not you like the PoE story may not be entirely relevant.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

You're right, that wouldn't be very heroic of me. It's a good thing I never called myself a hero!



My biggest letdown in PoE was that they replaced the RPG standard set of English/French/Spanish/Arabic/Japanese cultures and had poo poo like Inuit dwarves and Hawaiian shark people, but still set the game entirely in Celtic America.

X_Toad
Apr 2, 2011


Leinadi posted:

And hopefully there'll be a codex type of deal where you can look up stuff like in PoE.
The preview for which I gave a link mentions something like that :

quote:

Even the game’s dialogue highlights specific keywords that, when hovered over, will provide a quick summary of a town or group of people that you may have forgotten about. Further in-game information is made available in the game’s menus

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.

What I'd want out of another Pillars game is one more political in scope, yet also at the bottom of the fantasy kitchen sink. Maybe people would have to insure their houses against dragon-fire, or undead wizards go back to college for a masters degree. Okay, that sounds Pratchetty, so something overwhelming in scope where modern-day politics crosses paths with age-old magic wars, like Malazan.

I hope they do continue quest design in the same vein. Skill checks may open new avenues of conversation, but the player is still able to navigate a quest plenty by listening to people, examining items, and exercising their own judgement instead of just passing a 60 Speech check and winning. I liked how you find out to exorcise the Lighthouse banshee by reading a journal, which unlocks the next step, instead of peaceful progress being wholly dependant on a skill check like in the Shadowrun games. It reminds of the last Witcher where a quest is shaped by the speech options you take, the observations you make, the documents you've read, the items you may have at hand, and sometimes the order you complete other quests. And even though this has nothing to do with your stats as all they're combat related, you had more options to resolve quests in the stat-light Witcher than you do in the stat-heavy Fallout 4. You don't need a Strength stat to be an RPG.

edit: poo poo, not the pillars thread, eh, close enough.

Inspector Gesicht fucked around with this message at Jun 25, 2016 around 14:39

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me


Kajeesus posted:

My biggest letdown in PoE was that they replaced the RPG standard set of English/French/Spanish/Arabic/Japanese cultures and had poo poo like Inuit dwarves and Hawaiian shark people, but still set the game entirely in Celtic America.

Yeah, set the next game in someplace like Rauatai because that place sounds cool. Or if that's too crazy, the Valian Republics.

Jastiger
Oct 11, 2008

by FactsAreUseless


Excited for the game itll own, just like pillars did.

But im less excited about the thread tag. Can we have a mod change it to games or something like that?

poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

it's so magical


SoggyBobcat posted:

Huh? What the hell do you expect from your RPG sidequests? Would that quest have been better if it was just taking revenge on the bear and bringing its pelt back to the friend?

I think killing a bear just to obtain its pelt for a grateful hunter counts as a legitimate plot twist nowadays.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Darkhold posted:

Minor Edit: I guess I should say that AP isn't bad so much as very clearly a collection of spy cliches. Bad is a poor way to describe it as it was doing what it was supposed to but I don't feel the writing was actually great on that just passable enough to make the dynamic way it responds carry the game more than the actual story it told.
I'm not even sure what you're ranting about? Which quests had good guy is actually bad resolutions? And calling out a game that was specifically a homage to old games for not turning things on their head is very weird.

I'd be happy to give you the gods reveal at the end fell a bit flat and the fact the danger to the player wasn't communicated well at all but you seem to be complaining about things that weren't notable enough for me to even notice or things the game was specifically trying to do.

It's been awhile so I don't have complaints about specific pieces of writing, but... I played through a little over half of it and could not care less about anything happening in the story or background. Whenever an NPC gave a text dump about the setting it was like reading about someone trying to describe the plot of Kingdom Hearts. The presentation might have been part of the problem, just huge blocks of text with no relation to reality or even anything that was happening in the game.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


The Moon Monster posted:

It's been awhile so I don't have complaints about specific pieces of writing, but... I played through a little over half of it and could not care less about anything happening in the story or background. Whenever an NPC gave a text dump about the setting it was like reading about someone trying to describe the plot of Kingdom Hearts. The presentation might have been part of the problem, just huge blocks of text with no relation to reality or even anything that was happening in the game.

I mean what exactly do you expect from a game that promised making up for no voice acting and low animation fidelity with prose as one of it's main selling points

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Jastiger posted:

But im less excited about the thread tag. Can we have a mod change it to games or something like that?
It's the best tag for representing the game's color scheme that I can see

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


The Moon Monster posted:

It's been awhile so I don't have complaints about specific pieces of writing, but... I played through a little over half of it and could not care less about anything happening in the story or background. Whenever an NPC gave a text dump about the setting it was like reading about someone trying to describe the plot of Kingdom Hearts. The presentation might have been part of the problem, just huge blocks of text with no relation to reality or even anything that was happening in the game.

How familiar with old CRPGs are you, out of curiosity?

Parenthesis
Jan 3, 2013


After viewing this I have some concerns about the presentation of the game.

The portraits of the party members are great, but the screenshots of the characters you are talking to seems to be based on their in-game character model, and look cheap and ugly. I really hope they are either improved dramatically or there is an option to turn them off entirely. I also really dislike that they put [url=https://youtu.be/Dk4L-fqdm3g?t=10m2s]put[url] an action description into a conversation node you can loop back to - it seems really weird to see it repeated after making an optional choice. Hopefully they won't do that often.

I'll get it anyway - a short Obsidian RPG with aspirations of Alpha Protocols choice, consequence, and replayablity? Yes please.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me


Those are probably just placeholders during development, but I hope they can get appropriate portraits in if only because, yeah, those models don't look so hot close up.

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun

Arzachel posted:

I mean what exactly do you expect from a game that promised making up for no voice acting and low animation fidelity with prose as one of it's main selling points

Good writing, which isn't the same as large blocks of words.

multijoe
Oct 15, 2007



Fun Shoe

Lt. Danger posted:

Good writing, which isn't the same as large blocks of words.

Please don't tell that to InExile

drgnvale
Apr 30, 2004

A sword is not cutlery!

Is it too late for Torment to not suck?

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Doorknob Slobber
Sep 10, 2006





drgnvale posted:

Is it too late for Torment to not suck?

far far too late

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