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how the gently caress is antisemitism still a thing arrrgh
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Jun 4, 2020 20:46
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V. Illych L. posted:how the gently caress is antisemitism still a thing arrrgh Southpark introduced it to millennials. That and apathy.
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Jun 4, 2020 20:52
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So, the organizers of the Oslo protest just cancelled it over Corona-concerns, even though the government and even police have been pretty hands off in dissuading the gathering. After being pushed on it they'll now be live streaming a small gathering in front of the parliament and are encouraging people to stay home and sign a loving petition instead. Considering the big interest in these protests this seems really sus; pretty much tailor made to appeal to Norwegian lib sentiment of patting one-selves on the back and saying "at least we tried". I hope others show up in front of the US embassy regardless, the change in venue is significant in its own right.
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Jun 4, 2020 21:01
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V. Illych L. posted:how the gently caress is antisemitism still a thing arrrgh I saw a guy get singled out in an entire auditorium full of students during an inheritance law lecture by the old decrepit-rear end professor for wearing a kippah. Like we were 200 people and that old gently caress felt the need to stop the lecture to loving ask the "are you jewish" question. Antisemitism is absolutely real. It is the loving worst and I don't understand the brain worms you would need to have to internalize that bigotry and not immediately die of shame.
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Jun 4, 2020 21:04
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re solidarity protests: same in bergen, but i suspect that the organisers were pretty new to organising a protest i'm going to hang out awkwardly with my sign for a bit either way
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Jun 4, 2020 21:05
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Don't be. As for the school principal thing, I experienced that from the "culturally Christian" perspective, and it took my quite a while to realize my read on the situation back then was all backwards. Like, here's this totally normal dude who was supposed to start in our class, and pretty much the first thing we're told is that he's Jewish. Completely irrelevant, but it definitely colored my perception to a massive degree. Not because of the Jewishness per se (I basically lumped it in with Christianity), but because it was literally the first time I had met anyone outside a church setting who actively wanted people to know they were religious, so my mind immediately went to the only other expression of affirmative religious belief - the local priest who claimed he met Mary and Joseph on Cyprus. That is strikingly similar to my experience, except I managed to be enough of an over-performer socially and academically that I was eventually accepted (and more) by my classmates and some of the better teachers. That's not a healthy thing to learn either, though, because I'm only now learning how to not over-perform constantly, almost regardless of context. Which meant that I spent more than 20 years of my life unable to relax in most social settings, constantly trying to charm and entertain everyone, and unable to find a sense of security and pride in my accomplishments. This is something I know a lot of my minority friends also suffer from, even as it drove us all to results that look good on paper. And yeah, your story just underscores my point: Kids don't have the perspectives or concepts necessary to understand the dynamics of the situation. If an adult highlights the differences between them, without helping them understand what those differences mean and what they don't mean, then a lot of kids will use it as an explanation for things like "he didn't really fit in". I went from being just a regular kid in my old school, to suddenly being a constant target in my new school, because the adults around me gave everyone the opening. If someone wanted to hurt me, they knew they had perfect ammunition ready and loaded, and that the adults seemed to think it was fine - and sometimes joined in. Thanks for sharing - hearing it from the other side helps my own thinking on it. V. Illych L. posted:how the gently caress is antisemitism still a thing arrrgh Katt posted:Southpark introduced it to millennials. This was before Southpark (luckily for me, I guess?), but yeah, apathy is definitely the thing that allowed it to go on. I've also experienced a lot of otherwise progressive people being antisemitic because they feel safe about it, because they are convinced it is so obviously ironic, given their "self-evident progressive credentials" and some sense of antisemitism being a thing of the past. That conviction doesn't mean it feels great hearing jokes about gas chambers for the thousandth time, however, when one side of your family fled Russian pogroms and was then decimated in the Holocaust. "Hey Azram Legion, do you know why they call them jødekager? Because they cook them in gas ovens!" Azram Legion fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jun 4, 2020 |
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Jun 4, 2020 22:15
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Lmao, the kneeling cop in Sthlm is under internal review. I just... Who are these morons?
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Jun 4, 2020 23:25
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Are jew cakes antisemitic? They have nothing to do with irl jews or Jewish pastry traditions.
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Jun 4, 2020 23:31
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Azram Legion posted:That is strikingly similar to my experience, except I managed to be enough of an over-performer socially and academically that I was eventually accepted (and more) by my classmates and some of the better teachers. That's not a healthy thing to learn either, though, because I'm only now learning how to not over-perform constantly, almost regardless of context. Which meant that I spent more than 20 years of my life unable to relax in most social settings, constantly trying to charm and entertain everyone, and unable to find a sense of security and pride in my accomplishments. This is something I know a lot of my minority friends also suffer from, even as it drove us all to results that look good on paper.  I’ve got similar issues with that as well regarding my body image and if there’s one thing I’d like forcefully eradicated from the earth, it’s kids having to be that harsh on themselves simply to be accepted
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Jun 5, 2020 03:45
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Azram Legion posted:That is strikingly similar to my experience, except I managed to be enough of an over-performer socially and academically that I was eventually accepted (and more) by my classmates and some of the better teachers. That's not a healthy thing to learn either, though, because I'm only now learning how to not over-perform constantly, almost regardless of context. Which meant that I spent more than 20 years of my life unable to relax in most social settings, constantly trying to charm and entertain everyone, and unable to find a sense of security and pride in my accomplishments. This is something I know a lot of my minority friends also suffer from, even as it drove us all to results that look good on paper. Baudolino posted:Are jew cakes antisemitic? They have nothing to do with irl jews or Jewish pastry traditions.
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Jun 5, 2020 06:56
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The level of security in the synagogue in Trondheim is honestly pretty wild. They're a tiny institution, but still have a woman hired as a guard at all opening hours of the museum, and multiple armed police outside when they're holding services. Sadly, they're doing it for a reason.
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Jun 5, 2020 07:33
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Same in Oslo, the police have a guard outside at all times and they're often heavily armed.
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Jun 5, 2020 07:44
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I do really recommend the jewish museum in Trondheim though, it is very interesting.
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Jun 5, 2020 07:56
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The one in Oslo is also good but in fact it's a little hard to find because it's pretty hidden and you have to press a ringer and request entry from the street, I assume as a security measure.
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Jun 5, 2020 07:58
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I lived across the street from the Copenhagen Synagogue for a couple of years and it was under pretty much constant guard since it was attacked. I always had mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, it's on a narrow street, which contains a police blockade, a bar, bike traffic and an impenetrable wall of parked bicycles, which makes it almost permanently congested while also being a direct route to the nearest grocery store. It also gets upgraded to military security whenever someone like Inger Støjberg or Pernille Vermund makes a racist statement in public, which means it's practically always additionally manned by bored teenagers with rifles. On the other, that's all ultimately a minor inconvenience, and I'm sure it confers a lot of peace of mind to anyone who actually visits it. I will never be in a position where armed personnel is required for my security, and that's not a luxury everyone has.
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Jun 5, 2020 08:01
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V. Illych L. posted:how the gently caress is antisemitism still a thing arrrgh Because Israel. Antisemitism is well and alive in the ME and with the immigration from ME countries, it is no longer limited to the nazis. Which is fed by various politicians playing to ethnic politics (see Reepalu and the DC cup protests). So whatever BLM protests in Sweden is more of a general anti-racist demonstration than anything to do with US politics. Which is completely understandable given different cultural contexts, but which also means that for now it will be limited to the usual culprits (ie the left, cause they are the only one demonstrating in this country). Speaking of cultural contexts, the whole debate on Swedens involvement in slave trade, including dating back to the Viking, is stupid and ridiculous unless one believes in original sin. Or to put it like this, there is no leftovers in society from a slave owning class (which have not existed in Sweden) and any form of immigrants to Sweden is a thing from the 70s at earliest.
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Jun 5, 2020 08:25
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Azram Legion posted:Sorry for dumping all this out here - I hope no one feels I'm oversharing. Cardiac posted:Because Israel.
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Jun 5, 2020 09:16
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Another dude with jewish and romani heritage. My first experience of antisemitism was when I was seven and had paving stones thrown at me by local nazis with the explicit reason of being half-jewish. This was back in '94. My grandmother, survivor of WWII who lost her communist jewish father from Poland to the Gestapo, still get death threats sent to her. During the '14 election night her home was sprayed with swastikas and stickers from fascists. This poo poo has never stopped and it's not because of Israel. It's because antisemitism has always been part of Swedish history in varying degrees, just like anti-ziganism.
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Jun 5, 2020 09:28
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The lovely state of Israel gives some anti-Semites cover for their bigotry but they would be anti-Semites and bigots even if Israel was a harmonious paradise. Munin fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 09:34
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Munin posted:The lovely state of Israel gives some anti-Semites cover for their bigotry but they would be anti-Semites and bigots even if Israel was a harmonious paradise. Diss. Isreal being a thing does not make someone less of a racist shitheel if they're being a racist shitheel. You can protest the behavior and even existence of Isreal without being a racist shitheel.
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Jun 5, 2020 09:39
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Cynic Jester posted:Diss. Isreal being a thing does not make someone less of a racist shitheel if they're being a racist shitheel. You can protest the behavior and even existence of Isreal without being a racist shitheel. Many of the same fash and bigots who curse and kick Jews in their country love the state of Israel and the ideal of a religious ethnostate that it represents. A model for the Christian White Homeland they dream to turn their countries into.
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Jun 5, 2020 09:40
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Rutkowski posted:This poo poo has never stopped and it's not because of Israel. It's because antisemitism has always been part of Swedish history in varying degrees, just like anti-ziganism. Yeah that's really it. With Israel and anti-semitism I think it's primarily a phenomenon of some people trying to justify their anti-semitism by referring to Israel and others equating all criticism of Israel to anti-semitism (sometimes to try to draw attention away from their own anti-semitism). I don't really know any Jewish people in Norway, but one impression I did get from the limited interactions I have had is that many have experiences of essentially being asked (or demanded) to personally answer for Israel's actions, which is not that far off from how alot of Muslims experience similar pressures from society at large when it comes to jihadist terror. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 09:40
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Randarkman posted:Yeah that's really it. With Israel and anti-semitism I think it's primarily a phenomenon of somepeople trying to justify their anti-semitism by referring to Israel and others equating all criticism of Israel to anti-semitism (sometimes to try to draw attention away from their own anti-semitism). It doesn't help when the state of Israel itself tries to set itself up as speaking for all Jews, representing all Jews, and being the true home of all Jews. Another thing to hold against Israel especially since it also feeds into toxic and corrosive dual loyalty narratives.
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Jun 5, 2020 09:44
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Munin posted:It doesn't help when the state of Israel itself tries to set itself up as speaking for all Jews, representing all Jews, and being the true home of all Jews. Another thing to hold against Israel especially since it also feeds into toxic and corrosive dual loyalty narratives.
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Jun 5, 2020 09:50
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Munin posted:It doesn't help when the state of Israel itself tries to set itself up as speaking for all Jews, representing all Jews, and being the true home of all Jews. Another thing to hold against Israel especially since it also feeds into toxic and corrosive dual loyalty narratives. Feeds into yes, but Jews have been accused of dual loyalties for long before Israel was a thing*. Israel is really just the latest thing and is perhaps extra effective at this because it can serve as a justifation for anti-semitism (or perhaps more accurately embolden a person's existing anti-semitism) and as a shield against being accused of being anti-semitic (you'll have people using support of Israel to deny allegations of anti-semitism), in addition to this phenomenon being consciously used by Israel to pressure Jews outside of Israel. But this isn't the Israel thread and I'm at least going to let it drop there. *I think part of the reason for the success of Zionism is that it became ever more painfully evident that assimilation into non-Jewish societies, even conversion to Christianity (or otherwise abandoning overt expressions of Jewish identity), in the end offered little protection from anti-semitism and tolerance could easily be repealed and replaced with murder and repression. That is not to say that Zionism was the one and true answer to this problem, but the arguments are very much understandable. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 10:02
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Randarkman posted:I don't really know any Jewish people in Norway, but one impression I did get from the limited interactions I have had is that many have experiences of essentially being asked (or demanded) to personally answer for Israel's actions, which is not that far off from how alot of Muslims experience similar pressures from society at large when it comes to jihadist terror. Oh yeah, that happens. I also once saw a guy go off a weird tangent about how he condemns Israel but will not hold it against the person he had just met and learned was Israeli, which is not much better.
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Jun 5, 2020 10:15
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I know plenty of people critical of Israel, and am myself, but only chuds and zionists tend to draw parallels between it and antisemitism.
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Jun 5, 2020 10:32
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Randarkman posted:Feeds into yes, but Jews have been accused of dual loyalties for long before Israel was a thing*. Israel is really just the latest thing and is perhaps extra effective at this because it can serve as a justifation for anti-semitism (or perhaps more accurately embolden a person's existing anti-semitism) and as a shield against being accused of being anti-semitic (you'll have people using support of Israel to deny allegations of anti-semitism), in addition to this phenomenon being consciously used by Israel to pressure Jews outside of Israel. yup, all totally on point. And the footnote is why stamping out antisemitism is so important.
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Jun 5, 2020 10:48
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thotsky posted:I know plenty of people critical of Israel, and am myself, but only chuds and zionists tend to draw parallels between it and antisemitism. Honestly I think most people in Norway are that to a certain extent and I was not implying that anyone critical of Israel is anti-semitic. If I were to guess the type of person who is anti-semitic and would try to justify it with criticism of Israel I would think they are not the type of people who would like commonly identify as critical of Israel as a political stance*, but more someone who has casually absorbed legitimate criticism of Israel through media and events and where this now exists alongside a casual anti-semitism that was already there. e: Went back on my word in the last post, but I don't believe we're getting out of hand. *e2: Typically being on the left, where there is alot of focus on being aware of racism and prejudice and how pervasive and dangerous it is. But I think that for someone less politically conscious that casual criticism or disapproval of Israel, which typically is very much legitimate and well-founded can exist alongside their anti-semitism and they might not consider that one does not imply the other. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 10:52
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I lived across the street from the Copenhagen Synagogue for a couple of years and it was under pretty much constant guard since it was attacked. All Jewish institutions have special security measures, even the drat nursery home. My mom used to work there. The place went into full lockdown when somebody forgot a suitcase on the pavement outside. Took the cops 45 minutes to show up. Zulily Zoetrope posted:It also gets upgraded to military security whenever someone like Inger Støjberg or Pernille Vermund makes a racist statement in public, which means it's practically always additionally manned by bored teenagers with rifles. Probably preferable to cops who accidentally eject their magazines instead of returning fire when there's an actual threat on their doorstep.
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Jun 5, 2020 10:56
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:On the one hand, it's on a narrow street, which contains a police blockade, a bar, bike traffic and an impenetrable wall of parked bicycles, which makes it almost permanently congested while also being a direct route to the nearest grocery store. It also gets upgraded to military security whenever someone like Inger Støjberg or Pernille Vermund makes a racist statement in public, which means it's practically always additionally manned by bored teenagers with rifles. Pretty sure those "bored teenagers" are mostly drawn from the career soldiers of the Royal Life Guards, who are trained to perform guard duties in close proximity to civilians. If they do draw on the conscripts, I'd expect those to be the same ones guarding the palace and similar locations. They're trained for the specific duty of standing around and being stoic - while tolerating annoying people dancing about of out reaching. The army isn't happy about suddenly being made a permanent part of anti-terror guard duty, btw - and would prefer this to be the responsibility of the police .
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Jun 5, 2020 12:14
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https://twitter.com/cnni/status/1268863816802144258
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Jun 5, 2020 12:21
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In Alta that's a massive improvement honestly
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Jun 5, 2020 12:38
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More seaworthy than the Vasa.
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Jun 5, 2020 13:20
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LAU shitheads did an "anti-antifa" protest and were surprised when legit nazis and PEGIDA racists showed up in support.
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Jun 5, 2020 13:37
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SplitSoul posted:LAU shitheads did an "anti-antifa" protest and were surprised when legit nazis and PEGIDA racists showed up in support. What is LAU? "Anti-antifascist" huh? That sounds like a fascist.
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Jun 5, 2020 13:38
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the double negation dialectically implied by fascism... a hegelian cartoon
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Jun 5, 2020 13:43
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Randarkman posted:What is LAU? "Anti-antifascist" huh? That sounds like a fascist. Liberal Alliance Ungdom. A counterprotester showed up with a sign saying "Anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-antifa".
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Jun 5, 2020 13:46
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Police just shot a (balding, white, overweight, middle-aged) man holding a knife at a Paludan event. He was surrounded by police but refused to drop the knife. Someone decided to take a shot. They did give a warning shot and tell him that they'd shoot if he didn't drop the knife. And after pacifying him they yelled for a tourniquet. There's a bit of rioting in Gellerup now. edit: video has been taken down PederP fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 15:01
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What is Paludan even protesting today? "Please stop trying to be aware that racism exists, this hurts my brand?"
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Jun 5, 2020 15:59
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