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Angepain posted:oh that was totally of my time as well. I didn't watch it that much because I was scared of the scary things, this is the story of my life right here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AXseEnXtsc
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Jul 1, 2016 05:49
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How does it feel Brits, after having mocked us mercilessly for electing Bush and idiocracy that followed, to now have earned your Bush moment with Brexit, eh? Now you'll get a taste of our bitter medicine from last decade, being even with us and all. May neolibs get hosed. 
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Jul 1, 2016 05:51
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Never being scared of The Cowardly Dog's stuff and getting to see the show bravely handle dating abuse made it my favorite kids show before DBZ.
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Jul 1, 2016 05:54
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TomViolence posted:We remain boned and shall continue to be boned. Any far-fetched fantasy we have of weaseling out of article 50 is a pipedream. We are the sick cat vomiting on the rug of europe. Still don't think that's true. Right now there's no way anyone will commit to blocking it, because the people who voted Leave haven't seen any real negative consequences yet, so it would just look like the political elite overturning a result they didn't like and stealing the bright promised future of infinite opportunities But when things to bite and people start to realise this is becoming a serious problem we can't BRITANE our way out of, and none of the promises can be fulfilled anyway without the UK sinking into the sea, there'll be more appetite for a pragmatic decision. If public opinion shifts away from exiting (including the media if their owners start to hurt) I reckon there's a better chance that the government will quit stalling and ditch the whole thing like they want to I mean that's assuming the UK's position in the EU is even remotely tenable anymore
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Jul 1, 2016 05:58
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TomViolence posted:This country's referenda are slowly bringing me around to the idea that democracy is a bad idea. Because it's not like other forms of government ever make bad decisions. Seems to me it's an especially bad time to cast doubt on the value of democracy when we're moving fashwards generally.
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Jul 1, 2016 05:58
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Gove's swift and brutal ratfucking of Boris really drives home how utterly incompetent the Labour plotters are. The reason it worked so well is because it was unexpected and came from one of his closest allies and expected consigliere. By contrast, the Labour plotters had never even tried to make it look as if they were cooperating with Corbyn, instead focusing on leaking everything they possibly could to Laura Kuenssberg or other hacks to the extent that the exact form and timing of this coup appeared in the Telegraph in May. Surely not showing everyone your hand should be basic common sense, especially if you're playing with a 2 and a 7.
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Jul 1, 2016 05:59
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Hahahahahaha rational decision-making. Hahahahahahahahahaha. Good one, fellas. Even before this shite broke off things weren't exactly going swimmingly. We had the likes of Gidiot pursuing austerity year in, year out despite all evidence pointing to it not just being ineffective but counterproductive. We flatout cannot trust our government to act in the national interest and they will gently caress us savagely just to save face. Hope is a lie.
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Jul 1, 2016 06:02
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Grouchio posted:How does it feel Brits, after having mocked us mercilessly for electing Bush and idiocracy that followed, to now have earned your Bush moment with Brexit, eh? Now you'll get a taste of our bitter medicine from last decade, being even with us and all. May neolibs get hosed. Depends, if you guys vote in Trump you've got Top Trumps in lovely decisions once again.
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Jul 1, 2016 06:02
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Pure democracy is a bad idea inasmuch as it allows things like this to happen, as well as being unwieldy and generally prone to tyranny of the majority. This is why every nominally "democratic" country has systems to make sure the will of the people can be subverted when it's necessary to do so. The UK is no different; the major fuckup in this case was allowing the referendum to happen at all, whether or not it's binding. Making it an advisory referendum instead of a binding referendum was a good idea in theory, but in practice it'll cause an issue if the will of the people is seen to be ignored at this point. Democratic systems of government are good not because they always reflect the desires and whims of the population, but because they make the government accountable to the people.
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Jul 1, 2016 06:03
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that redtext tho ^^^^^^^^
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Jul 1, 2016 06:05
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PT6A posted:Pure democracy is a bad idea inasmuch as it allows things like this to happen, as well as being unwieldy and generally prone to tyranny of the majority. Representative democracy allows things like this to happen. Oligarchy and monarchy (etc) allow things like this to happen. There is no system of government that prevents people from ever making bad decisions. Democracy is good because people who have no power get exploited or crushed, not because if you keep people in a dark cellar and feed them poo poo they won't say anything stupid if temporarily given a megaphone.
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Jul 1, 2016 06:18
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Democracy isn't bad, but as a tool it can be used to enshrine really bad things as some kind of moral imperative, just by staging and winning a vote in some form. Just because someone in power posed a carefully framed question about some action, and a plurality of people answered in a certain way for whatever reason, it doesn't automatically justify that action being carried out
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Jul 1, 2016 06:20
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Oh dear clone posted:Democracy is good because people who have no power get exploited or crushed Tyranny of the majority though. Is it democratic for some authority to impose checks and balances on what a majority vote can actually do? Or on what kind of votes can even be held? It's usually pretty important at least
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Jul 1, 2016 06:26
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baka kaba posted:Tyranny of the majority though. Is it democratic for some authority to impose checks and balances on what a majority vote can actually do? Or on what kind of votes can even be held? It's usually pretty important at least Yeah. Guaranteed human rights are, in a sense, anti-democratic. The people of North Carolina support their idiotic prohibition on trans people using public washrooms, so to deny that prohibition is anti-democratic. To allow the prohibition goes against fundamental human rights. It's incredibly important that democracy be limited, just like it's very important that the wonderful Free Market be strongly regulated.
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Jul 1, 2016 06:30
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baka kaba posted:
I'm pretty sure that this will be the strategy of whatever government ends up in place a few months down the line: sit tight, make vague noises about implementing Brexit and wait for the economic consequences of the vote to really start hurting people. After a year or so of recession, job losses, spending cuts and (prepare to clutch your pearls) falls in house prices! , the public will be much more receptive to the message that perhaps this wasn't such a good idea after all.
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Jul 1, 2016 06:31
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You guys get how dangerous "democracy has failed" alongside economic depression and the right-wing populist scapegoating of some Other is right?
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Jul 1, 2016 06:45
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Irony is lost on... Well irony is just lost. Democracy is poo poo, but until the proles get woke and smash the state it's the best we can do. I mean at least with democracy we only kill brown people on the other side of the world, right?
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Jul 1, 2016 06:50
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brawleh posted:You guys get how dangerous "democracy has failed" alongside economic depression and the right-wing populist scapegoating of some Other is right? http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-calling-out-ukips-new-antieu-poster-for-resembling-outright-nazi-propaganda--WkTYUB18EW Yes, without going all  the similarity has been noticed. And pointed out.When we call Farage and UKIP fascists in this thread, it's sadly not as hyperbolic as you'd hope. E: Another bit of evidence folk may have missed - a UKIP Lord in Parliament suggests we hold the stronger hand in EU negotiations, because there are more here than there are UK citizens in the EU (an oversimplification - we're all currently EU citizens, but you get the idea); http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/30/ukip-lord-calls-for-eu-nationals-to-be-used-as-hostages-in-brussels-discussions-5975655/#ixzz4D8Nj8XCV quote:‘When present tensions have calmed down, why would either Brussels or London want to do anything to upset this mutually beneficial situation?’ Laradus fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 06:54
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Millions just voted to leave a democracy because fascists told them it was undemocratic. 
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Jul 1, 2016 07:01
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PT6A posted:Pure democracy is a bad idea inasmuch as it allows things like this to happen, as well as being unwieldy and generally prone to tyranny of the majority. This is why every nominally "democratic" country has systems to make sure the will of the people can be subverted when it's necessary to do so. The UK is no different; the major fuckup in this case was allowing the referendum to happen at all, whether or not it's binding. Making it an advisory referendum instead of a binding referendum was a good idea in theory, but in practice it'll cause an issue if the will of the people is seen to be ignored at this point. PT6A posted:Yeah. Guaranteed human rights are, in a sense, anti-democratic. The people of North Carolina support their idiotic prohibition on trans people using public washrooms, so to deny that prohibition is anti-democratic. To allow the prohibition goes against fundamental human rights. I am agreeing with PT6A here. What has Brexit done to this world.
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Jul 1, 2016 07:08
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Steve2911 posted:Millions just voted to leave a democracy because fascists told them it was undemocratic. hitler got elected democratically you know
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Jul 1, 2016 07:09
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Angela Eagle is supposedly delaying her leadership bid longer to give Corbyn "more time to do the right thing". Also, for what it's worth, the rolling coverage on the BBC website has changed from "Brexit, Tory leadership and Labour leadership latest" to "Brexit and Tory leadership latest".
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Jul 1, 2016 07:21
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Direct democracy could be a great system if had the right supporting institutions. Namely a free and fair press, a robust educational system, a balanced economic system, and a culture of open mindedness and tolerance. Sadly Britain and most other Western countries have none of these things.
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Jul 1, 2016 07:23
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Chomskyan posted:Direct democracy could be a great system if had the right supporting institutions. Namely a free and fair press, a robust educational system, a balanced economic system, and a culture of open mindedness and tolerance. Sadly Britain and most other Western countries have none of these things. People have been saying that direct democracy in Europe will be great once the people are ready for like 200 years at least.
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Jul 1, 2016 07:28
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baka kaba posted:Tyranny of the majority though. Is it democratic for some authority to impose checks and balances on what a majority vote can actually do? Or on what kind of votes can even be held? It's usually pretty important at least It is democratic when those checks and balances are democratically created, yes. Democracy allows everyone an equal say in an organization; it does not prohibit it from setting up rules requiring quorums, due notice, proper information etc. When tyranny beckons, the fewer people who are powerless against it the better.
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Jul 1, 2016 07:52
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"direct democracy would be great if nobody actually had any substantive disagreements on such trivial questions as what might constitute a free and fair press, a robust educational system, a balanced economic system, or a culture of open mindedness and tolerance" I, too, enthusiastically vote on whether the wheelie bins should be emptied twice or thrice a week.
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Jul 1, 2016 07:52
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Referendums on everything except the things I consider important
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Jul 1, 2016 08:01
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I wonder what's going to happen today.
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Jul 1, 2016 08:17
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_referendum,_1933
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Jul 1, 2016 08:26
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Grouchio posted:How does it feel Brits, after having mocked us mercilessly for electing Bush and idiocracy that followed, to now have earned your Bush moment with Brexit, eh? Now you'll get a taste of our bitter medicine from last decade, being even with us and all. May neolibs get hosed. You're about to elect Trump. I don't think we could do worse than that if we voted to give complete control of the country to one of The Queen's corgis.
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Jul 1, 2016 08:32
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it's the eternal Lib Dem angst. Proportional representation forever - except that we'd get swamped by 'kippers, far more of them than overeducated genteel Green Party types. Abolish the Lords - except that it is the remaining bastion of sanity in a sea of institutional dysfunction. Abolish appointed regional offices and render all of them elected - except that either the same entrenched class easily wins election as Dogcatcher of Nowhere and proceeds with even less oversight because of their shiny new democratic mandate, or some populist charlatan sweeps into office and begins wanton schemes of embezzlement that PricewaterhouseCoopers will have to carefully and expensively unpick five years later. and a fixed term parliament, well, the problem of a government with a weak mandate that nevertheless resists removal is currently being demonstrated live
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Jul 1, 2016 08:33
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serious gaylord posted:I wonder what's going to happen today. I'm predicting Eagle decides not to challenge Corbyn
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Jul 1, 2016 08:34
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serious gaylord posted:I wonder what's going to happen today. Corbyn breaths in public area. Did you know you can catch many diseases through airborne transmission? The NHS is already struggling and Corbyn is freely and willingly spreading disease. Corbyn refuses to apologies for this. Ergo we are justified in printing the headline "Corbyn calls for NHS to be dismantled".
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Jul 1, 2016 08:34
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serious gaylord posted:I wonder what's going to happen today. Ken Livingstone launches a Labour leadership bid on a platform of changing the party name to HITLERHITLERHITLERHITLER Someone from the european commission issues a statement in rather technical language whose meaning isn't entirely clear to people without a deep understanding of trade negotiations and diplomacy but loosely translates to "lmao you guys are so screwed" In a private ceremony, Theresa May removes her flesh mask and completes the evisceration of Boris's career in the traditional Tory manner by eating his heart while he still lives according to the ritual of F'yar-lathashk
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Jul 1, 2016 08:37
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also, Alistair Campbell: not all bad, really! (a letter, published in the Sun, sent to Kelvin Mackenzie in response to his "oh dear, maybe this wasn't such a good idea" bit)
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Jul 1, 2016 08:39
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I don't disagree with his sentiment, but Campbell lecturing someone on being part of a propaganda machine and well-sorted is more than a little 
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Jul 1, 2016 08:43
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LemonDrizzle posted:Michael Gove pulls out of Conservative leadership race and launches surprise challenge to Corbyn "Gove pulls out of leader race and May is the anointed frontrunner" is actually a headline I would not be at all surprised to see today. The Tories have turned cloak and dagger politics into performance art.
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Jul 1, 2016 08:45
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Laradus posted:I don't disagree with his sentiment, but Campbell lecturing someone on being part of a propaganda machine and well-sorted is more than a little the Blairites, by any indication, sincerely believed in propaganda as a necessity for Good Policy (however defined) it's why they didn't say anything about immigration. because there was nothing to say that would work naturally any practitioner of this worldview regards someone who's in it to sell copies of The Sun as a dark wizard of the worst order
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Jul 1, 2016 08:47
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in which Liam Fox applies modus tollens:quote:I do not believe there is room for membership of the single market, if it entails free movement of people.
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Jul 1, 2016 08:52
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J_RBG posted:So long as we're in a tweet posting phase
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Jul 1, 2016 08:52
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