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EvilGenius posted:I asked in the June thread what Murdoch got out of this, and I got the feeling it was nothing beyond decades of convenient 'us and them' narrative. Now he's going to have to find another enemy. Well if we come out of this Labour mess with a genuinely left-wing and reinvigorated opposition, he gets to smile and make sure the culture war will only get nastier.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:14
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EvilGenius posted:I do wonder what exactly The Sun and The Express are for now. They could go with the angle of 'pressure on politicians to negotiate Brexit FOR BRITUN' but their readers will have fallen asleep before the end of that sentence, and there's not much milage in it. They have a pretty compelling narrative to replace, and nothing to replace it with. The EU was an ideal villain - people know gently caress all about what it really is, leaving it wide open for tabloid to paint whatever picture they want, safe in the knowledge that politicians would never be dumb enough to... oh poo poo. I, uh, hate to disillusion your optimistic view of humanity, but LIBERAL ELITES (WHO SIDE WITH THOSE PEOPLE) is not exactly a difficult narrative to sell in Murdochtopia his readership lives in unceasing terror in fortified villages with no streetlamps, paved roads, firemen, or schools, because to pay for any of those will involve TAXES and we all know that TAXES won't go to any of those it'll actually go to LIBERAL ELITES who will then give it to THOSE PEOPLE so we must have NO TAXES which, for Murdoch personally, comes down to the last two words and nothing else ronya fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 10:16
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Baron Corbyn posted:Shami Chakrabarti She actually made a very good point on the radio when she was asked why Corbyn didn't speak up during the heckle. She simply pointed out that she was chairing the meeting, and it wouldn't have been very feminist of Corbyn to assume she couldn't handle it herself and do it for her.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:16
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radmonger posted:Plebiscites were actually a favored tool of fascist regimes. For example, in a move with absolutely no parallels with recent events, in 1933 they held one on leaving the League of Nations. What difference would this make? If a new referendum was held in January and Remain won by 52% should we all pretend nothing happened until the next 52% Leave referendum in 2018 or 19 or 20? Is that our lot now, to cyclically go through economic crisis every couple of years when the Brits feel a bit more nostalgic? I don't think you can put this toothpaste back in the tube.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:21
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Quebec eventually got tired of the drama
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Jul 1, 2016 10:22
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ronya posted:which, for Murdoch personally, comes down to the last two words and nothing else
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Jul 1, 2016 10:22
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ronya posted:I, uh, hate to disillusion your optimistic view of humanity, but LIBERAL ELITES (WHO SIDE WITH THOSE PEOPLE) is not exactly a difficult narrative to sell Much as we like to think The Sun pick a narrative and tell their readers that that's what they believe, if they even get a whiff of their readers turning against them, they'll adapt. They switched to Labour for Blair when they realised he was more popular, and that their Tory centric story was getting harder to sell. oval office McKenzie's column was them testing the waters. Is there resentment towards Brexit? Are readers worried or proud? I'm not saying they're going to switch any time soon, but at the end of the day they're interested in selling papers and not a lot more.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:25
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EvilGenius posted:I do wonder what exactly The Sun and The Express are for now. They could go with the angle of 'pressure on politicians to negotiate Brexit FOR BRITUN' but their readers will have fallen asleep before the end of that sentence, and there's not much milage in it. They have a pretty compelling narrative to replace, and nothing to replace it with. The EU was an ideal villain - people know gently caress all about what it really is, and it has virtually no bearing on people's day to day lives, leaving it wide open for tabloid to paint whatever picture they want, safe in the knowledge that politicians would never be dumb enough to... oh poo poo. Lol no, "Europe" will be blamed until the heat death of the universe.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:26
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people know gently caress-all about the EU, it's true, but they also know gently caress-all about their own country's civil service, its parliament, its demographic and economic makeup, its budget, etc LIBERAL ELITES
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Jul 1, 2016 10:26
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EvilGenius posted:oval office McKenzie
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Jul 1, 2016 10:28
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forkboy84 posted:It's not worth anything, but despite being a regular Yougov user, who they will know is a Labour member, they didn't ask me about the Labour leadership. Instead the last survey I got was about internet browsers. God it was so dull. I loving loathe those brand surveys they do. Out of interest, are the points/rewards you get from participating actually worth your while financially? It's always unclear what the actual reward is from the website.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:29
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Aliquid posted:i wonder if tony blair would have been a more principled leftist had we not strongarmed him into baghdad Assuming 'we' means America, you didn't. If anything America wanted lower participation from us than actually happened. He eagerly volunteered for our part in the intervention. He pushed Bush for us to have a bigger part in the whole clusterfuck than we otherwise would have had.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:33
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Prince John posted:Out of interest, are the points/rewards you get from participating actually worth your while financially? It's always unclear what the actual reward is from the website. You get 50 points a survey and once you get 5000 then you can get a cheque for I think £50? I started but the surveys dried up fairly quickly (I think I got invites about once a fortnight). Basically I lost interest way before getting close to money, which is probably not uncommon. Edit: I did make money doing survveys on Toluna but you have to be willing to answer the most tedious questions about things like how the word bouncy makes you feel in relation to shampoo adverts for about 90 minutes a day every day. After about 2 months I decided I would rather pay than answer another question about what quality I thought was most important for cat food. hookerbot 5000 fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 10:35
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Yeah but God told him to. He's not a terrorist he's just mentally ill etc. etc.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:35
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Prince John posted:Out of interest, are the points/rewards you get from participating actually worth your while financially? It's always unclear what the actual reward is from the website. Not unless you actively enjoy taking part in the surveys. It takes a lot to make it up to the cash reward. You can enter yourself into prize draws for significantly less points but there's not much chance of winning of course.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:37
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hookerbot 5000 posted:You get 50 points a survey and once you get 5000 then you can get a cheque for I think £50? I started but the surveys dried up fairly quickly (I think I got invites about once a fortnight). Basically I lost interest way before getting close to money, which is probably not uncommon. Yeah. I reached like 1000 points and then got no more surveys. Maybe I was giving the wrong answers.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:37
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EvilGenius posted:Much as we like to think The Sun pick a narrative and tell their readers that that's what they believe, if they even get a whiff of their readers turning against them, they'll adapt. They switched to Labour for Blair when they realised he was more popular, and that their Tory centric story was getting harder to sell. oval office McKenzie's column was them testing the waters. Is there resentment towards Brexit? Are readers worried or proud? the Tories had spent the past decade dallying with Europeanist fancies, what with the ERM and the purge of the Atlanticist Tory camp in the late Thatcher-Major years, and had to be shown appropriate humility to the press and, well, it's a sign of the times in conceding an incontestable right to sell papers
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Jul 1, 2016 10:39
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http://rachaelwrd.tumblr.com/post/146702311843/letter-of-resignation-from-london-young-labourquote:But in the past few days even this tokenistic regard for democracy vanished when the Chair released a statement calling for the resignation of the leader of the Labour Party ‘signed by the London Young Labour Executive Committee’ without so much as consultation with the Committee, never mind putting it to a vote. Burn my home city down, TIA.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:39
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On a non-Brexit note, anyone in London see the soldiers at stations this morning? If you speak to them they just hand you a card. It's a really powerful tribute, they're like ghosts.   
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Jul 1, 2016 10:40
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EvilGenius posted:You're about to elect Trump. I don't think we could do worse than that if we voted to give complete control of the country to one of The Queen's corgis. "After an inexplicable, miraculous recovery, historians agree that the real fall of the UK began during fierce disagreements on the "Who's A Good Boy" referendum."
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Jul 1, 2016 10:40
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MeLKoR posted:What difference would this make? If a new referendum was held in January and Remain won by 52% should we all pretend nothing happened until the next 52% Leave referendum in 2018 or 19 or 20? Is that our lot now, to cyclically go through economic crisis every couple of years when the Brits feel a bit more nostalgic? I don't think you can put this toothpaste back in the tube. 4% opinion poll shift to get into power on a platform of 'don't poo poo the bed'. Then use that power to make popular changes for the better. Notice how it is a major handicap to one of the Tory leadership contenders that they once opposed gay marriage? That is what democratic political victory looks like. It's not going to be reversed any time soon. Even if we go full fascist, they will be gay-friendly fascists.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:41
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Somehow Labour have managed to avoid keeping the Tories off the front page of the papers today. Astonishing.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:43
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When is the UK due to take the EU presidency again? It was supposed to be in the next year or so right?
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Jul 1, 2016 10:44
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Next century
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Jul 1, 2016 10:45
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radmonger posted:That is what democratic political victory looks like. It's not going to be reversed any time soon. Even if we go full fascist, they will be gay-friendly fascists. you've not met many fash then
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Jul 1, 2016 10:46
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https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/748808618888224768 o Labour left, where is your sense of adventure
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Jul 1, 2016 10:49
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radmonger posted:4% opinion poll shift to get into power on a platform of 'don't poo poo the bed'. Then use that power to make popular changes for the better. Until they get rid of all the Polish people. As was posted in the June thread there's been people singing on the streets about kicking out the gays after they've finished with the Poles. Violence is already happening and it will get worse as they get bored with just singing.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:50
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ronya posted:Quebec eventually got tired of the drama You have to go through with this and settle it once and for all, we all know it's going to happen sooner or later. There is no point in keeping the UK in the EU until you have first hand experience of being out and you chose to rejoin. Maybe in 20 years time with a 2/3 majority vote but to be honest even then I would hesitate. I simply no longer trust the UK not to throw everything to the dogs any time some of you feel that Rule the Waves nostalgia.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:52
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Baron Corbyn posted:Not unless you actively enjoy taking part in the surveys. It takes a lot to make it up to the cash reward. You can enter yourself into prize draws for significantly less points but there's not much chance of winning of course. Thanks all. Think I'll give that a miss then!
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Jul 1, 2016 10:55
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ronya posted:https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/748808618888224768 By adventure do you mean intentionally running the UK economy even further into the ground?
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Jul 1, 2016 10:58
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David Hare has a good piece on this "revolution" and how it will devour itself. Most interesting is his suggestion that this is the death of the conservative party if it can't even stand for free markets.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:59
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Just spent since Monday on the Isle of Arran (lovely btw - gently caress England, Scotland is where it is at) with no phone reception/minimal internet. I get back and see Michael 'Malleus Doctores' Gove might be PM?!? This country is loving insane, I mean.... what?!
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Jul 1, 2016 10:59
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vodkat posted:By adventure do you mean intentionally running the UK economy even further into the ground? He's being sarcastic.
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Jul 1, 2016 11:00
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vodkat posted:By adventure do you mean intentionally running the UK economy even further into the ground? well if you really sincerely believe that the City is value-subtracting, then it's really helping the UK economy to soar to greater heights, right?
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Jul 1, 2016 11:02
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MeLKoR posted:Quebec never passed a Leave referendum and the last one was some 20 years ago. Does anyone think UKIP would go away if they lost a new referendum in January? Deport all kippers to the continent without passports. haakman posted:Just spent since Monday on the Isle of Arran (lovely btw - gently caress England, Scotland is where it is at) with no phone reception/minimal internet. I get back and see Michael 'Malleus Doctores' Gove might be PM?!? Or Theresa "I drink the blood of orphans" May.
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Jul 1, 2016 11:02
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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can anyone explain service tariffs to the economically illiterate (me) and how this would affect 80% of our entire economy? i assume that the cost of doing business abroad would go up (and the cost at home if you depend on a foreign supplier)? what are these tariffs that would apply? is it stuff like local vat?
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Jul 1, 2016 11:04
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radmonger posted:4% opinion poll shift to get into power on a platform of 'don't poo poo the bed'. Then use that power to make popular changes for the better. I'm not saying nothing can be done, just that the world where the UK working class has no motive to go reactionary is not the world we live in at the moment. quote:Notice how it is a major handicap to one of the Tory leadership contenders that they once opposed gay marriage? MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 11:05
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Metrication posted:can anyone explain service tariffs to the economically illiterate (me) and how this would affect 80% of our entire economy? i assume that the cost of doing business abroad would go up (and the cost at home if you depend on a foreign supplier)? what are these tariffs that would apply? is it stuff like local vat? I think the broad strokes is we offer preferential rates on things like moving money around, financing, exports etc etc to nations we share trade agreements with. If you want to sell a sprocket to No Tariffsdonia it costs X+5%, if you want to sell it to France it costs X. We just burned down all our most important trade agreements, so all the businesses in this post globalised world would now be eating a huge loss to stay here. They won't.
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Jul 1, 2016 11:12
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CoolCab posted:I think the broad strokes is we offer preferential rates on things like moving money around, financing, exports etc etc to nations we share trade agreements with. If you want to sell a sprocket to No Tariffsdonia it costs X+5%, if you want to sell it to France it costs X. We just burned down all our most important trade agreements, so all the businesses in this post globalised world would now be eating a huge loss to stay here. They won't. All this can be solved if Britannia colonises Continental Europe, South-East Asia, and the Americas. Once those pesky natives are displaced, there will be enough trading partners for ol' Blighty to become wealthy.
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Jul 1, 2016 11:15
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ronya posted:the Tories had spent the past decade dallying with Europeanist fancies, what with the ERM and the purge of the Atlanticist Tory camp in the late Thatcher-Major years, and had to be shown appropriate humility to the press e: blowfish posted:Deport all kippers to
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