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Josh Lyman posted:I wonder if the show would've done better had it been called "Kublai Khan" or "Mongol" or anything else. A whole lot of people really have some ugly history with the Mongol people, so naming the show after the Mongols or Mongol rulers might turn them away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_History_of_the_Mongols
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Jul 5, 2016 16:50
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Love Crime posted:Yep you're right about the first one, second one though is what I first thought too but upon rewatch it was definitely about her dancing, he sees his niece dancing in the background and calls her over to him and she's wearing her mother's oversized shoes and she says she wants to be a great dancer like her mother and then the next scene is him deciding to do it. His reason for punishing her is because of Mei Lin, but the reason for that specific punishment is because his weird obsessive hatred with prostitutes. The real impetus for the punishment of the child is because Jingim Prince got the best of him in the peace parley - the one he didn't even know about because the dowager empress caused it to happen. He hobbles the child because he can't punish anybody else except his sister - who's basically just his weird torture slave spy. You are definitely mis-remembering the scene with the child in the oversized shoes - literally the entire bulk of the rest of the episode goes by insinuating dancing all over, but the binding is at the very last - and it's more because the Minister threw a temper tantrum at being thwarted, than any actual directed anger.. He's just a sadist. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 17:38
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coyo7e posted:Been re-going through season 1 and I gotta say I disagree. The whole episode (s1 ep4) where this happened had a lot of stuff about dancers, dancing, the child wanting to become a "dancer" like she thinks her mom is, etc.. There's the scene with Mantis Minister watching his sister's old friend dancing while he ignores her and walks off, the Khan has an Opera featuring acrobats dressed up like the minister, etc etc.. Everyone in that entire episode is dancing in circles for the most part - hell the title is "the fourth step" which is both an insinuation of the dancing/foot thing, but also the 4th step in a 12 step program is taking a thorough (and difficult) moral inventory of oneself - which is all the last scenes of the episode in a nutshell. I've just rewatched it and it's pretty clear the reason he decides that specific punishment is because he associates dancing with prostitutes (which is why he has Mei Lin's sister doing private dances later on) and he wants Ling Ling to stop dancing. If you've just rewatched it and had it pointed out to you I cannot think of a reason why you'd think otherwise. Having Ling Ling wear the mother's sandals is just hitting you over the head with it. 20:40 into Episode 3 Sidao sees Ling dancing while he's loving around with his mantis "Sunflower, where is your servant?" "Attending to my breakfast" "Excellent, enjoy" Then literally 18 seconds of him staring at her feet dancing with a creeper face. Love Crime fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 00:10
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Well finished it over the weekend. Pretty good, but season 1 captivated me more strongly. Small spoilers Marco constantly gets poo poo on by Kublai. Ahmed bondage scene had my wife and I cracking up.
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Jul 6, 2016 01:13
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This is goony as hell, but I was bored and wanted a family tree based on what was seen in the show (as opposed to actual history). There might still be mistakes and accidental omissions here, and I'm unsure if the show even mentioned Guyuk Khan. And because I'm only going by the show, there's still plenty of historically significant family members not shown.code:Echo Chamber fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 01:47
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Knyteguy posted:Marco constantly gets poo poo on by Kublai This is something I actually enjoy because you can tell they aren't trying to temper Kublai as a character. He's a massive baby who can't and won't control his temper and all the problems are someone else's fault. Even after all was said and done about killing the boy emperor he still wouldn't take the blame for it, "Ahmad MADE ME kill the boy!" to Chabi. Yeah, you were forced to do it alright. Echo Chamber posted:This is goony as hell, but I was bored and wanted a family tree based on what was seen in the show (as opposed to actual history). There might still be mistakes and accidental omissions here, and I'm unsure if the show even mentioned Guyuk Khan. And because I'm only going by the show, there's still plenty of historically significant family members not shown. That's great, I'll put it in the OP for next season if it gets one. Khutulun ends in Un though. Love Crime fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 05:34
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I still find it laughable that the one minister literally has a painting of himself holding the khan's severed head while sitting on his throne, and nobody ever noticed or thought to bring it up.
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Jul 6, 2016 22:56
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Josh Lyman posted:I wonder if the show would've done better had it been called "Kublai Khan" or "Mongol" or anything else. Mongol is the name of that (pretty cool) movie about the early life of Genghis Khan. You should check it out if you haven't. They should definitely have called the show something like Khan, though. It's Kublai's show, and I guess they could pick up confused Star Trek fans. And fans of Bollywood actor Shahrukh Khan. Does this show do great in some foreign market? Because I love it, but I don't know a soul who watches it in the US. I'm frankly shocked it got a second season. And I hope it gets a third...I'd love to see them get to the attempted invasion of Japan. But if poo poo reviews and not-great-seeming viewership persist, I don't know if that'll happen.
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Jul 7, 2016 09:42
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Xealot posted:Does this show do great in some foreign market? I'm going with no because China/Mongolia can't even watch it, or at least couldn't as of the first season. Also Mongolians seem really pissed off that they aren't even filming in Mongolia (Kazakhstan instead) and the only 'big name' Mongolian actor was Ariq who died in the second episode. http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/12/24/netflixs-marco-polo-is-cross-cultural-clunker/ quote:Another Chinese user wrote on Dec. 14 in a popular comment, “Watching this show, I finally understand how Egyptians must feel when they watch The Mummy.” 
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Jul 7, 2016 09:59
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Love Crime posted:http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/12/24/netflixs-marco-polo-is-cross-cultural-clunker/ That's harsh. I don't want anyone to feel like they're watching Brendan Fraser. Totally off-topic, and being completely pedantic, though: wouldn't it be pretty impossible to cast an ethnically "accurate" Ancient Egypt story? The Egyptian population today reflects thousands of years of interaction with Mediterranean, Arab Middle Eastern, and various Turkic and Central Asian populations...I was under the impression that ancient Egyptians were more likely indigenous to the Nile region.
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Jul 7, 2016 10:49
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Brendan Fraser is a comedic genius. 
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Jul 7, 2016 11:43
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Xealot posted:Totally off-topic, and being completely pedantic, though: wouldn't it be pretty impossible to cast an ethnically "accurate" Ancient Egypt story? The Egyptian population today reflects thousands of years of interaction with Mediterranean, Arab Middle Eastern, and various Turkic and Central Asian populations...I was under the impression that ancient Egyptians were more likely indigenous to the Nile region. "Ancient Egypt" covers over 3000 years so that's still thousands of years of interactions with populations from around the Mediterreanean, western Asia and Nubia. Having actors from Egypt or even other Middle Eastern countries would still be a drat sight better than God of Egypts: Horus is From Denmark and Set's Scottish.
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Jul 7, 2016 17:04
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Rocksicles posted:Brendan Fraser is a comedic genius. This guy knows whats up
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Jul 7, 2016 17:29
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Nuclear War posted:This guy knows whats up
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Jul 7, 2016 17:59
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The typical, ordinary Egyptian wouldn't look too different today than 2500 or 3000 years ago. The ruling class in Egypt, not unlike China, has changed often over the course of history.
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Jul 7, 2016 18:40
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Kassad posted:Having actors from Egypt or even other Middle Eastern countries would still be a drat sight better than God of Egypts: Horus is From Denmark and Set's Scottish. Agreed. Likewise Christian Bale and Joel Edgerton.
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Jul 7, 2016 18:55
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Xealot posted:That's harsh. I don't want anyone to feel like they're watching Brendan Fraser. Brendan Fraser is a better actor than every single person on Marco Polo. And to be clear, legitimately a good actor.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:42
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Let’s dispel with this fiction that Brendan Fraser knows how to act and is good at it. He knows exactly how bad he is.
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Jul 8, 2016 07:51
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Let’s dispel with this fiction that Brendan Fraser knows how to act and is good at it. He knows exactly how bad he is. 
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Jul 8, 2016 08:27
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Tarzan really let himself slide.
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Jul 8, 2016 08:49
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Marco Polo sort of is how to do a period drama/epic wrong in many ways, which is a shame because the actual history is interesting enough that with good acting and writing doesn't need such a derivative plot. Is there a good Korean drama based around the Japanese invading Korea in the 1500s? An interesting portrayal of Admiral Yi would be great. C-SPAN Caller fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jul 8, 2016 |
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Jul 8, 2016 13:54
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Would you seriously want to see a Korean show like that? Marco Polo managed to offend Mongolians and it had good intentions. South Koreans wouldn't even begin with those, it'd end up making Birth of a Nation look like a ballad to multiculturalism.
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Jul 8, 2016 14:26
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Love Crime posted:Would you seriously want to see a Korean show like that? Marco Polo managed to offend Mongolians and it had good intentions. Koreans are pretty good at making shows about Koreans.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:12
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Love Crime posted:This is something I actually enjoy because you can tell they aren't trying to temper Kublai as a character. He's a massive baby who can't and won't control his temper and all the problems are someone else's fault. Even after all was said and done about killing the boy emperor he still wouldn't take the blame for it, "Ahmad MADE ME kill the boy!" to Chabi. The actor who plays Kublai is so insanely good and charismatic. The character does some of the most heinous poo poo and is terrible towards every other likable character on the show, yet the actor plays him so well and brings such a presence to the role that you can't help but still loving him and wanting to see him succeed. Dude is like the Asian Gandolfini.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:39
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savinhill posted:Dude is like the Asian Gandolfini. This is a surprisingly succinct way of putting this.
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Jul 8, 2016 20:57
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If I had one problem with this season regarding Kublai, it just feels like he wasn't given too much agency. Like, he was mostly reacting instead of acting; and was kept in the dark on everything. He's reacting to the threat Kaidu posed. He's tricked into killing the boy emperor. He doesn't pick up on Ahmad's scheming. He has not clue what's going on at the capital. He's not in on Chabi's subplot with securing an heir for his son. He doesn't get to confront Ahmad. And Marco gets to lay the killing blow on Kaidu. From what I can recall, the only "initiatives" he's given this season are lighting the horses on fire and deciding to kill everyone who knows the truth about his grandkids at the end. But Benedict Wong's performance is what saves his character.
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Jul 9, 2016 02:06
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C-SPAN Caller posted:Koreans are pretty good at making shows about Koreans. They're also extremely good at racism towards anyone who isn't South Korean and I'd assume a show about Japan invading would include Japanese characters. quote:People in South Korea who experience racism are often helpless to do anything about it, due to its being legal under South Korean law.[19] quote:A 2009 poll revealed that 47% of South Korean children were uncertain or negative on the subject of whether they could make friends with a biracial child.[10[ quote:Biracial men were banned from serving in the South Korean military until January 2011, being biracial classified as a disability.[3] Love Crime fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jul 9, 2016 |
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Jul 9, 2016 04:20
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Echo Chamber posted:If I had one problem with this season regarding Kublai, it just feels like he wasn't given too much agency. Like, he was mostly reacting instead of acting; and was kept in the dark on everything. He's reacting to the threat Kaidu posed. He's tricked into killing the boy emperor. He doesn't pick up on Ahmad's scheming. He has not clue what's going on at the capital. He's not in on Chabi's subplot with securing an heir for his son. He doesn't get to confront Ahmad. And Marco gets to lay the killing blow on Kaidu.
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Jul 9, 2016 18:43
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Echo Chamber posted:If I had one problem with this season regarding Kublai, it just feels like he wasn't given too much agency. Like, he was mostly reacting instead of acting; and was kept in the dark on everything. He's reacting to the threat Kaidu posed. He's tricked into killing the boy emperor. He doesn't pick up on Ahmad's scheming. He has not clue what's going on at the capital. He's not in on Chabi's subplot with securing an heir for his son. He doesn't get to confront Ahmad. And Marco gets to lay the killing blow on Kaidu. Welcome to Being A Monarch.
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Jul 9, 2016 23:49
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I am highly excited for GHOST ARMY and I hope to see more. Or not because they are ghosts you know what I mean.
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Jul 9, 2016 23:54
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Kublai probably had the worst plan imaginable at the end. Did not bring guards or anything with him. I mean if he was already going to illegally kill his opponent might as well bring some illegal help/weapons. First he gets extremely lucky Khutulun wasn't there. Was his backup plan to take both her and Kaidu out in hand to hand combat by himself? Second, he still gets his rear end beat by lone Kaidu and needs Marco to rescue him. Wish they made it a more cunning plan from him. Christ. Also I didn't not read the historical account in depth, but wasn't the plan to marry Jingim to a Chinese princess all sorts of horrible? Kublai already faces opposition from his chieftains for being too Chinese. So his son if he legitimately has a kid with her, the kid as far as anyone knows, is now 50% Chinese and is supposed to inherit the Khan of Khans title? That's extremely poor planning. He should have been married off to a 100% mongolian bride, preferably daughter of one of the chiefs. Two things that really bothered me about this season but overall it's a fun show. Hope they do season 3. Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 01:33
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The princess wasn't Chinese.
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Jul 10, 2016 02:17
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Rad Russian posted:Also I didn't not read the historical account in depth, but wasn't the plan to marry Jingim to a Chinese princess all sorts of horrible? Kublai already faces opposition from his chieftains for being too Chinese. So his son if he legitimately has a kid with her, the kid as far as anyone knows, is now 50% Chinese and is supposed to inherit the Khan of Khans title? That's extremely poor planning. He should have been married off to a 100% mongolian bride, preferably daughter of one of the chiefs. Kokochin is 100% Mongolian. Princess of a wiped out tribe. Well, that's who she's posing as, you know what I mean.
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Jul 10, 2016 03:33
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AngryBooch posted:Kokochin is 100% Mongolian. Princess of a wiped out tribe. Well, that's who she's posing as, you know what I mean. And she went into how her (actual) family was super traditional Mongol, "Nergui" coming from a blank piece of paper in that naming ritual and whatnot. I kind of liked how the schizo hallucination Kokachin was usually in a beaded Mongol outfit, and Nergui was always styled in a more courtly Chinese way. Paralleling the literal erasure of her identity as Nergui with the thematic erasure of "real Mongolia" by Kublai. (Not that he's necessarily doing this, but that question's obviously central to the plot this season.)
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Jul 10, 2016 08:01
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I enjoyed the show. It wasn't the most mindblowing TV I've ever seen, but it was okay. Benedict Wong is amazing. I really love the character of Kublai because they make no attempt to hide that fact that in order to rule an empire like that, you really must be an awful, monstrous bastard. Does anyone know, did Genghis really do the bird thing? I've heard that story before, but I seem to recall it was done by some badass eastern european lady. I can't imagine it would work as well with horses, those horses were on fire for several minutes before they reached the center of the camp. In the huge battle scene I was annoyed by Macro's dad suddenly being some kind of amazing fighter, everyone else it's at least established they're good fighters, except Marco, I suppose. As for making a historical show that doesn't offend people, loving lol. I'll believe that's possible when I see it.
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Jul 11, 2016 04:57
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counterfeitsaint posted:Does anyone know, did Genghis really do the bird thing? I've heard that story before, but I seem to recall it was done by some badass eastern european lady. I can't imagine it would work as well with horses, those horses were on fire for several minutes before they reached the center of the camp. In the huge battle scene I was annoyed by Macro's dad suddenly being some kind of amazing fighter, everyone else it's at least established they're good fighters, except Marco, I suppose. Genghis really did it and it became a staple of Mongolian armies. At Hsi-Hsia Genghis attacked for weeks but couldn't take the city so he demanded 1,000 cats and 10,000 birds from them and he'd leave, then he used them like it showed. The Mongols continued to use animals like that and the direct comparison with horses is because Timur Khan set camels on fire to defeat an army in India. Indians were using war elephants and Timur's army was about to flee until Timur had the idea to set camels on fire to scare the elephants. Also the speech Kublai gives about the horses going to heaven was taken from Timur. When Mongolians first started using camels to cross the desert they hated them and Timur lost part of his army because they refused to use camels but by the time they set them on fire Timur said the camels were surely going to go to heaven too. I rolled my eyes at Niccolo being a fighter too but like somebody said earlier his whole story seems to have been planned from the beginning (first time Marco sees him he says he has to meet with higher ups in the church), plus he's given command of the crusaders and they deeply respect him so it leads to thinking he'd know how to fight. Love Crime fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 07:06
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Preview of S3: Start of season: "Marco's awesome! Everybody loves Marco!" (Marco does helpful things all season.) Towards end of season: "Boo, Marco actually sucks! Let's kill him!" Finale: (Marco does one more great thing, setting up next season to start with Marco love.)
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Jul 11, 2016 10:26
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So Marco's dad is Prester John, craziness.
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Jul 13, 2016 06:32
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"We're not going down to the city. Netflix didn't give us enough money to build sets for it. We'll just use the tent sets some more."
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Jul 13, 2016 06:36
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Hugging someone to death: also employed in Gladiator. Gladiator is also on Netflix, by the way.
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Jul 14, 2016 08:11
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