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Constant Hamprince posted:"Look guys I know literally every time we've tried this it's failed miserably and often resulted in mass deaths and starvation, but we've done some tweaking and I'm pretty sure I've got the definition of 'democracy' just right this time so how about another go at total power over the people, ay? Centrist pundits circa 1700.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:55
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OWLS! posted:The reason why socialism won't fly in america is because we're just temporarily embarrased millionaires. Actually, it's about ethics in political journalism
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Jul 28, 2016 13:58
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Jul 28, 2016 14:00
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Jul 28, 2016 16:36
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noice
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Jul 28, 2016 17:17
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unironically this tbh
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Jul 28, 2016 17:27
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get the gently caress out of here
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Jul 28, 2016 17:40
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Jul 28, 2016 17:51
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rudatron posted:get the gently caress out of here fight me irl
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Jul 28, 2016 17:52
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dont make me krondstadt your rear end bitch
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Jul 28, 2016 18:01
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dont make me curbstomp you on the corner of FREEDOM if ur teeth are important to u motherfucker goddamn you fucker poo poo: DON'T STEP UP OR YOU GONNA GET KNOCKED DOWN
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Jul 28, 2016 18:05
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ne1 kno of any workers communes i can join? Urban or agrarian, either is fine with me
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Jul 28, 2016 18:07
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ne1? Oh well i guess once you have the capital to set something like that youre bought enough into the system where youd never make the sacrifices necessary to support such a society
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Jul 28, 2016 18:09
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lol if you wanna buy a wokers commune instead of fight the yuppies for it SAD
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Jul 28, 2016 18:12
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The Kingfish posted:Centrist pundits circa 1700. democracy didn't kill 60-80 million people due to failed domestic policies in a 75 year old timespan in 1700 either
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Jul 28, 2016 18:16
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SirJohnnyMcDonald posted:lol if you wanna buy a wokers commune instead of fight the yuppies for it fighting the worlds best armed and equipped police force backed by the worlds best armed and equipped militias backed by the worlds best armed and equiped army sounds, frankly, impossible What if instead i complained a lot on the internet and went to a lot of meetings that were basically just really specific book groups but with more bickering
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Jul 28, 2016 18:20
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no ones done that before not because they didn't think of it, it's just too dangerous man was not meant to know that level of concentrated socially awkward discomfort we, as a species, just aren't ready
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Jul 28, 2016 18:25
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Typo posted:democracy didn't kill 60-80 million people due to failed domestic policies in a 75 year old timespan in 1700 either wow 60 to 80 million, that's incredible variance for a figure based on real data and not pulled squarely out of someone's rear end
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Jul 28, 2016 18:26
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rudatron posted:no ones done that before i lived in a communal house once and was looking to move into one in nyc and would have (they put me on a waiting list but i was locked into a lease by the time my name came up) Its a great way to live tbh but the problem is those kind of situations attract people with boundary issues ranging from "will steal your medications" to "lock your doors at night"
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Jul 28, 2016 18:32
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id probably do so again if i could
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Jul 28, 2016 18:34
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Al! posted:ne1? Oh well i guess once you have the capital to set something like that youre bought enough into the system where youd never make the sacrifices necessary to support such a society isolated communes do not socialism make and if they posed any risk to the system as a whole they'd be crushed. paris commune, friend
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Jul 28, 2016 18:34
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Homework Explainer posted:isolated communes do not socialism make and if they posed any risk to the system as a whole they'd be crushed. paris commune, friend u are my sunshine, a pretty good sunshine U MAKE ME HAPPY, ON FORUMS GREY!
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Jul 28, 2016 18:36
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Too many deaths in the wake of communism. I'll stick to guilt free capitalism thanks
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Jul 28, 2016 18:44
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Homework Explainer posted:isolated communes do not socialism make and if they posed any risk to the system as a whole they'd be crushed. paris commune, friend oh ok, some folks got killed 200 years ago, i guess communitarianism is a dead dream
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Jul 28, 2016 18:51
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Toadvine posted:Too many deaths in the wake of communism. I'll stick to guilt free capitalism thanks
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Jul 28, 2016 18:52
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we're all individuals int he capitalist system, so your death is an individual failure thanks
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Jul 28, 2016 18:54
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Al! posted:oh ok, some folks got killed 200 years ago, i guess communitarianism is a dead dream the other thing is people agitating for socialism aren't demanding a network of little communes, or at least they aren't outside the context of a transfer of state power. you're jamming together two very different things
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Jul 28, 2016 18:54
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a large swathe of uprisings over a vast geographic area would be pretty nice, yeah
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Jul 28, 2016 18:56
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Al! posted:oh ok, some folks got killed 200 years ago, i guess communitarianism is a dead dream hillbro you should probably back off this subject of which you're obviously and profoundly ignorant
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Jul 28, 2016 19:00
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Homework Explainer posted:the other thing is people agitating for socialism aren't demanding a network of little communes, or at least they aren't outside the context of a transfer of state power. you're jamming together two very different things right, im just talking about things that are possible and achievable in today's society not a dead impossible dream. of course, there's always my preferred way
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Jul 28, 2016 19:01
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Homework Explainer posted:wow 60 to 80 million, that's incredible variance for a figure based on real data and not pulled squarely out of someone's rear end https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide
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Jul 28, 2016 20:24
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Al! posted:ne1? Oh well i guess once you have the capital to set something like that youre bought enough into the system where youd never make the sacrifices necessary to support such a society squat some abandoned buildings with me in america's dying urban areas and inner ring suburbs
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Jul 28, 2016 21:35
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Typo posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward two famines — massive fuckups aren't the same thing as deliberate killings — and a country that wasn't even communist. cool.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:40
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Homework Explainer posted:two famines — massive fuckups aren't the same thing as deliberate killings — and a country that wasn't even communist. cool. This is very reassuring as to the future success of communism E: also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_Poland Typo has issued a correction as of 21:48 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 21:44
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Typo posted:This is very reassuring as to the future success of communism again, your point? you won't find me quoting mission to moscow and saying actually, the purges were very good. the best i can do is understand the circumstances where they took place, and of course i wasn't there, but in the cold light of day there's no excuse. that doesn't mean we can't do better. the united states is the most advanced economy on earth and thanks to socialism a backward agrarian nation became its direct competitor for the better part of the 20th century. we can "fail better," to quote samuel beckett.
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Jul 28, 2016 21:54
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Homework Explainer posted:again, your point? you won't find me quoting mission to moscow and saying actually, the purges were very good. the best i can do is understand the circumstances where they took place, and of course i wasn't there, but in the cold light of day there's no excuse. that doesn't mean we can't do better. My point is that the argument that basically goes "nobody thought democracy was going to work in 1700 just like socialism" is a bad argument, because Communism have failed much more structurally and caused a far higher death toll than did democracy. Granted the last time democracy was tried before the 1700 was ancient greece/rome so maybe socialism will be a good idea in another 2000 years or so. quote:the united states is the most advanced economy on earth and thanks to socialism a backward agrarian nation became its direct competitor for the better part of the 20th century. we can "fail better," to quote samuel beckett. And no, I'd rather not try 'fail better' anytime again because frankly I don't want the leadership going "oops, we starved a bunch of people again but we didn't mean it" or being lined up against someone's wall and shot for being the wrong kind of socialist or something
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Jul 28, 2016 22:04
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Typo posted:My point is that the argument that basically goes "nobody thought democracy was going to work in 1700 just like socialism" is a bad argument, because Communism have failed much more structurally and caused a far higher death toll than did democracy. Granted the last time democracy was tried before the 1700 was ancient greece/rome so maybe socialism will be a good idea in another 2000 years or so. You don't know what you are talking about.
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Jul 28, 2016 22:06
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The Kingfish posted:You don't know what you are talking about.
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Jul 28, 2016 22:07
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The Kingfish posted:You don't know what you are talking about. the best thing that could ever happen to Communists is for their dreams of revolution to never, ever take place just ask Bukharin or Liu Shaoqi
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Jul 28, 2016 22:11
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soviet russia and maost china also were authoritarian dictatorships which... imo might have had more to do with their terrible acts. could someone point me to the causality of a socialist economic system->genocide. feels like a distraction to me. but if we want to bring up terrible things done by countries, let's look at capitalist atrocities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Native_American_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki https://yourstory.com/2014/08/bengal-famine-genocide/
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Jul 28, 2016 22:12
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