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Payndz
Sep 22, 2006

I'm Peter Graves, and I was wondering if you could direct me to the natatorium, as I'm attending a Scuderia Ferrari team-building exercise. Thank you. I'm Peter Graves.


I watched 'The Thaw', which I realised I wasn't actually sure if I'd ever seen (pre-Seven Voyager blends together somewhat). Turned out to be a good ep, but the ending would have been so much more powerful if it had been Janeway herself rather than a hologram copy - use some technobabble about her using a neural link to control it or whatever. Having your hero terrify the embodiment of fear itself and end with "I'm afraid..."/"I know" would have been incredibly badass.

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Eimi
Nov 23, 2013





Payndz posted:

I watched 'The Thaw', which I realised I wasn't actually sure if I'd ever seen (pre-Seven Voyager blends together somewhat). Turned out to be a good ep, but the ending would have been so much more powerful if it had been Janeway herself rather than a hologram copy - use some technobabble about her using a neural link to control it or whatever. Having your hero terrify the embodiment of fear itself and end with "I'm afraid..."/"I know" would have been incredibly badass.

I mean I thought it was just a projection of her so essentially it was. And also just more evidence that Janeway is evil.

Angry_Ed
Mar 30, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Eimi posted:

I mean I thought it was just a projection of her so essentially it was. And also just more evidence that Janeway is evil.

She became an Admiral of course she's evil.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013





Angry_Ed posted:

She became an Admiral of course she's evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0lZytCblEE

This is canon in my heart. Because remember, Janeway is not just an admiral, but one of the highest ranking admirals they've shown.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





Angry_Ed posted:

She became an Admiral of course she's evil.

she used time travel to destroy the federation and created the dystopia we saw in picard

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



Eimi posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0lZytCblEE

This is canon in my heart. Because remember, Janeway is not just an admiral, but one of the highest ranking admirals they've shown.

I know this is common practice and all because of maintaining continuity between takes, but I never before noticed that Picard pulls an empty mug from replicator (and then sips from said empty mug). Oh, Nemesis, the depths of your laziness never end.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


Does it ever strike you that Geordi La Forge is a ridiculous name?

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Arglebargle III posted:

Does it ever strike you that Geordi La Forge is a ridiculous name?

"Gene Roddenberry created the character in honor of George La Forge, a quadriplegic fan of the original Star Trek series, who died in 1975."

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Is Burnham a reference to steamed hams???

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"


Nitrousoxide posted:

Is Burnham a reference to steamed hams???

...........................no.

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

Didn't you Say Steamed Clams? I thought we were having Steam Clams.

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

Grimey Drawer

It's a Betazoid expression

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Well I'm from the Fifth House, and I've never heard anyone use the phrase "Steamed Hams."

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


Oh not in the Fifth House no, it's a Sacred Rings expression.

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!

The Nexus?! In this quadrant, on this stardate, in the middle of a starship, localized entirely within your quarters?
Yes!
I must see it!
NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *smash*

Jean-Luc! Time is the fire in which we burn!
No, Soran, it's just an energy ribbon

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005

#JusticeForBreonnaTaylor
#BlackLivesMatter
#StillIRise
#Blessed




Nitrousoxide posted:

Is Burnham a reference to steamed hams???

I’m still waiting for them to somehow link “The Burn” with “Burnham” because the name is similar and it would be the absolute laziest writing I’ve come to expect from Disco

Eighties ZomCom
Sep 10, 2008






They probably thought they were being clever by not linking Burnham to The Burn.

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup


Pillbug

She did loving cause it though.
If she didn't go and save Saru's people in series 2, they would still be enslaved and not star faring.

Burnham is the cause of everything.
She was the one who hosed up the meeting with the first Klingon and caused a massive war.
She was the one who created the red signals and created Control as a by product.
She set it up so the Burn could happen as I said above.

I'm looking forward to how she ends up creating this 5 light year spanning intelligent black hole or whatever the gently caress it is.
And then is hailed a saviour again for fixing it.

blastron
Dec 11, 2007

Don't doodle on it!



happyhippy posted:

She did loving cause it though.
If she didn't go and save Saru's people in series 2, they would still be enslaved and not star faring.

So if I stop someone from getting hit by a car, and then fifty years from now their grandkid murders someone, I'm on the hook for that?

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Isn’t...isn’t that the basis for non interference? That kind of a big part of trek. Even if it is kind of dumb

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001




blastron posted:

So if I stop someone from getting hit by a car, and then fifty years from now their grandkid murders someone, I'm on the hook for that?

"Responsible for" and "caused" are two different things.

Truman's decision not to invade Japan may have caused me to be here, because there's a reasonable chance that my grandfather could have died in Operation Coronet. But, Truman isn't responsible for my actions.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


happyhippy posted:

She did loving cause it though.
If she didn't go and save Saru's people in series 2, they would still be enslaved and not star faring.

I realize that complaining about every single thing Burnham does is a sacred pastime in the various Trek threads, but uh wow this is some take

blastron
Dec 11, 2007

Don't doodle on it!



If you’re defining “Michael caused the Burn” as “Michael took any action at all that was part of the causal chain that led to the Burn”, then literally everyone notable caused the Burn. Saru caused the Burn because he exposed the Ba’ul’s lies and uplifted his people. (That entire episode, incidentally, was driven by Saru, not Michael.) Prime Georgiou caused the Burn by rescuing Saru in the first place, which had nothing to do with Michael at all!

I get that it’s fun to dunk on a show you don’t like but Michael didn’t cause the Burn.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


I mean by Star tracks own logic she definitely caused it. It’s dumb but to be consistent that’s how it works in that universe

Nullsmack
Dec 7, 2001
Digital apocalypse

Timby posted:

I know this is common practice and all because of maintaining continuity between takes, but I never before noticed that Picard pulls an empty mug from replicator (and then sips from said empty mug). Oh, Nemesis, the depths of your laziness never end.

I see this sort of thing all the time when I'm watching TV.

It's really egregious when someone has one of those disposable coffee cups with the lid and when they set it down it makes an audibly empty clunk sound.

jeeves
May 27, 2001

Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire


So now that we know how the future is from DISCO, does anything Star Trek Picard does matter because you fukken know they are going to write another THREAT TO THE GALAXY THAT MUST BE SOLVED and that will be the basis for the entire season that they write backwards from. They somehow went from having Discovery be a lovely prequel to now forcing everything else be a lovely prequel to Discovery.

Edit: I forgot to say which series would write that but it doesn’t matter because both will

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

Welcome to the machine

blastron posted:

If you’re defining “Michael caused the Burn” as “Michael took any action at all that was part of the causal chain that led to the Burn”, then literally everyone notable caused the Burn. Saru caused the Burn because he exposed the Ba’ul’s lies and uplifted his people. (That entire episode, incidentally, was driven by Saru, not Michael.) Prime Georgiou caused the Burn by rescuing Saru in the first place, which had nothing to do with Michael at all!

I get that it’s fun to dunk on a show you don’t like but Michael didn’t cause the Burn.

She didn't cause it yet. Just kidding, they aren't going to go back to a solved plot.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

Only Accused Of STATUTORY Rape

I think the Prime Directive allows interference if a non spacefaring race is actively being interfered with already by another spacefaring race. Like freeing Bajor from the Cardassians

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





John Wick of Dogs posted:

I think the Prime Directive allows interference if a non spacefaring race is actively being interfered with already by another spacefaring race. Like freeing Bajor from the Cardassians
Bajor had warp drive, they were just beat to hell and occupied. Like if Earth had been occupied by the Vulcans or Andorians or something. "Having warp drive or its equivalent" is their threshold but I imagine the Federation would have had a different tack if Bajor had been freed as, say, part of the war settlement with Cardassia and just incidentally was now in Federation territory.

Burning_Monk
Jan 11, 2005
Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to know

John Wick of Dogs posted:

I think the Prime Directive allows interference if a non spacefaring race is actively being interfered with already by another spacefaring race. Like freeing Bajor from the Cardassians

Bajor was space-faring before they were invaded by the Spoonheads.

efb

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

Grimey Drawer

blastron posted:

So if I stop someone from getting hit by a car, and then fifty years from now their grandkid murders someone, I'm on the hook for that?

Listen, Jack, Edith Keeler must die, okay?

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

Only Accused Of STATUTORY Rape

Nessus posted:

Bajor had warp drive, they were just beat to hell and occupied. Like if Earth had been occupied by the Vulcans or Andorians or something. "Having warp drive or its equivalent" is their threshold but I imagine the Federation would have had a different tack if Bajor had been freed as, say, part of the war settlement with Cardassia and just incidentally was now in Federation territory.

I'm sure the Bajorans think they had warp drive before the occupation

Payndz
Sep 22, 2006

I'm Peter Graves, and I was wondering if you could direct me to the natatorium, as I'm attending a Scuderia Ferrari team-building exercise. Thank you. I'm Peter Graves.


CPColin posted:

Listen, Jack, Edith Keeler must die, okay?
Ugh, that just made me wonder if the whole idea behind the Section 31 show was "we'll have Jack Bauer... in space!"

But they'll end up with Wacky Space Hitler.

Rob Rockley
Feb 23, 2009





Burning_Monk posted:

Bajor was space-faring before they were invaded by the Spoonheads.

efb

Since I started on DS9 one of my favorite episodes so far is “Explorers,” where Sisko reconstructs and sails an ancient Bajoran solar sailing ship. At the end thanks to trek space magic Ben and Jake end up at Cardassia, and the Cardassians recognize his achievement by revealing the Cardassians “recently” discovered the wreckage of an ancient Bajoran ship, proving they had interstellar travel and first contact centuries ago. They’re all “Hey what a coinkydink, we found this wreckage on Cardassia that supports what you did literally just now, imagine the timing!” Lol.

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

I think everyone is getting confused. See Micheal Burnham didn't cause anything she just is tangentially related to everything in star trek universe. Like if there is a major thing that is going to occur she will have been related in some way to it cause the writers don't know how to write a compelling character who is super smart. Instead they write someone who just happens to be X and thus has the secret to Y. It was most blatant with the time jump. She immediately meets book who just so happens to be able to get her information about the federation and also set off the conflict with what will become the big bad. Can't just disagree with the Orion alliance ideologically no she has to have physically wronged them so they are noticed.

Burning_Monk
Jan 11, 2005
Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to know

Rob Rockley posted:

Since I started on DS9 one of my favorite episodes so far is “Explorers,” where Sisko reconstructs and sails an ancient Bajoran solar sailing ship. At the end thanks to trek space magic Ben and Jake end up at Cardassia, and the Cardassians recognize his achievement by revealing the Cardassians “recently” discovered the wreckage of an ancient Bajoran ship, proving they had interstellar travel and first contact centuries ago. They’re all “Hey what a coinkydink, we found this wreckage on Cardassia that supports what you did literally just now, imagine the timing!” Lol.

It's a great episode with solid memes, like *Hammock Time* and O'Brien and Bashir singing "Jerusalem". Cardassian's pulling the archeology site out once shown their rear end was a nice touch into their personality.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




The Federation didn't free Bajor from the Cardassians, except incidentally. I don't think it was actually part of the Fed-Card war, was it? It's just that Bajor was getting to be more trouble than it was worth to an occupying force dealing with war on a few fronts and they decided to ditch.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008



CharlestheHammer posted:

I mean by Star tracks own logic she definitely caused it. It’s dumb but to be consistent that’s how it works in that universe

Yeah, Burnham breaks the Temporal and the regular Prime Directive at the same time and the long chain of causality results in the Burn.

Shyrka
Feb 10, 2005

Small Boss likes to spin!

HopperUK posted:

The Federation didn't free Bajor from the Cardassians, except incidentally. I don't think it was actually part of the Fed-Card war, was it? It's just that Bajor was getting to be more trouble than it was worth to an occupying force dealing with war on a few fronts and they decided to ditch.

The Cardassians only left Bajor in 2369, immediately before DS9 begins.

So yeah, the occupation and accompanying holocaust is going on while everyone's yucking it up on TNG.

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Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

More Like Dukat was trying to help the poor savage Bajorans modernize, but they rejected his gift and spat at it!

I mean really the real crime is the lost chance for peaceful integration

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