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Terror Sweat
Mar 15, 2009



Just watched the Quarks bar goes on strike episode and I can't believe Worf crosses the picket line. The worst thing he's ever done, what a piece of poo poo

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FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?





Terror Sweat posted:

Just watched the Quarks bar goes on strike episode and I can't believe Worf crosses the picket line. The worst thing he's ever done, what a piece of poo poo
Are you honestly surprised though?

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it



Grimey Drawer

Terror Sweat posted:

Just watched the Quarks bar goes on strike episode and I can't believe Worf crosses the picket line. The worst thing he's ever done, what a piece of poo poo

Take solace in the fact that Chief O'Brien fights him for being a loving scab during the commercial break, but they both get arrested by the cops for it

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

I'm sure Worf is really worked up about working conditions in Quark's. The man wants his juice!

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Perhaps Klingon has no word for "worker." If they were warriors of labor, now...

Terror Sweat
Mar 15, 2009



Don't give me that Klingon poo poo, he's a larper that was raised in earth in fuckin Russia, he knows about labour movements

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Terror Sweat posted:

Don't give me that Klingon poo poo, he's a larper that was raised in earth in fuckin Russia, he knows about labour movements

A lot can change in a few hundred years. Modern Russia is not very friendly to labour right now.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Terror Sweat posted:

Don't give me that Klingon poo poo, he's a larper that was raised in earth in fuckin Russia, he knows about labour movements

He may have been raised by a good non-com prole, but don't forget that he grew up knowing he was the son of a feudal noble with blood ties to the Imperial family.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Worf was well aware that Nog's efforts were doomed from the start by a focus on trade-unionism instead of setting out to lead a vanguard party of workers through Ferenginar and thus increase the contradictions of the system until such time as everything collapsed, for instance by loving up the weather on a vacation planet on the say-so of some rear end in a top hat.

What I'm saying is: Worf is basically a tankie.

EimiYoshikawa
Sep 12, 2017

Defective, dumb, and self-destructive.
This metaphor is getting a little heavy-handed.




Worf was Belarusian, not Russian.

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!

Minsk.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003






I like some of the 'shhh look we get it' in the blueprints.

Like these rooms are the sickbay set on the show:



And then you zoom out to the, uh... 'full' sickbay that was totally there all the time we never saw it shut up

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

Terror Sweat posted:

Don't give me that Klingon poo poo, he's a larper that was raised in earth in fuckin Russia, he knows about labour movements

In canon Star Trek, 24th century earth has no money, everybody who wants to work can work at a job they enjoy or feel fulfilled at, and the average person can, if they want, live at a level of luxury far beyond our own. What's somebody on 24th century Earth going to know or care about labor movements?

Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Listen to Cylindricule!
https://linktr.ee/Cylindricule


MikeJF posted:

I like some of the 'shhh look we get it' in the blueprints.

Like these rooms are the sickbay set on the show:



And then you zoom out to the, uh... 'full' sickbay that was totally there all the time we never saw it shut up



It reminds me of the hospital shows where everything takes place at the reception area and one redressed room.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Epicurius posted:

In canon Star Trek, 24th century earth has no money, everybody who wants to work can work at a job they enjoy or feel fulfilled at, and the average person can, if they want, live at a level of luxury far beyond our own. What's somebody on 24th century Earth going to know or care about labor movements?

I feel like the school curriculum must have a "Capitalism is really bad," unit somewhere, probably multiple somewheres, and one would assume the Labor Movements and their fight against worker oppression is part of that.

jeeves
May 27, 2001

Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire


Sanguinia posted:

I feel like the school curriculum must have a "Capitalism is really bad," unit somewhere, probably multiple somewheres, and one would assume the Labor Movements and their fight against worker oppression is part of that.

Good thing they have the entire history of the 18th, 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries as examples for that class.

DoggesAndCattes
Aug 2, 2007



On my first watch of TNG and finished watching episode 4. I'm immensely enjoying it compared to my first watch of TOS. Not to be negative towards TOS, but the TV series was difficult for me to watch.

However, I really liked the first 6 movies. At the end of Undiscovered Country, I was tremendously sad this was the last I'd see the whole crew together.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

Sanguinia posted:

I feel like the school curriculum must have a "Capitalism is really bad," unit somewhere, probably multiple somewheres, and one would assume the Labor Movements and their fight against worker oppression is part of that.

I doubt it. I went to school in the 1980s-'90s, and there wasn't a big part of the curriculum devoted to how bad the idea of the divine right of kings was.

Besides, it's not like Earth's economic situation developed as a reaction to capitalism. It had a nuclear war and fell into anarchy, was rescued by the Vulcans and then discovered cheap energy and practical matter/energy conversion leading to the beginnings of a post-scarcity society.

Epicurius fucked around with this message at 16:48 on May 3, 2021

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Epicurius posted:

I doubt it. I went to school in the 1980s-'90s, and there wasn't a big part of the curriculum devoted to how bad the idea of the divine right of kings was.

Besides, it's not like Earth's economic situation developed as a reaction to capitalism. It had a nuclear war and fell into anarchy, was rescued by the Vulcans and then discovered cheap energy and practical matter/energy conversion leading to the beginnings of a post-scarcity society.

You're confusing a leadership system with an economical system. Capitalism can exist under a king, a dictator or a president.

Capitalism has been one of the most significant underlying causes of modern global conflicts, so I think a Social Studies unit on the socio-politic-economic situation right before World War III would be a thing. I mean, I learned about how the economic situation in Germany post-WWI heavily contributed to the rise of Nazism in HS. Heck, there's a sizable group of educators in this country who are frothing at the mouth to teach a unit on how Communism is bad.

jeeves posted:

Good thing they have the entire history of the 18th, 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries as examples for that class.

And? We're talking about if Worf would have learned about labor movements in school on Earth, so yeah, most likely they would use examples from the height of capitalism on Earth

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!



Knowing Worf he probably knows all about the history of class warfare and just didn't give a poo poo.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




"There is no honor in demanding more compensation for a necessary task!"

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





8one6 posted:

Knowing Worf he probably knows all about the history of class warfare and just didn't give a poo poo.

"If you want more compensation from your employer, simply challenge him to a duel for the required sum. Refusing to either work or fight is the deed of a cowardly petaQ!"

Mr. Prokosch
Feb 14, 2012

Behold My Magnificence!


Was Worf home schooled? I think that would explain a lot of things about him.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Like I said, Worf grew up romanticizing and idealizing a government based on some kind of modernized space feudalism in which he was the son of a landed noble with direct blood ties to the Imperial line. Its really not surprising that he's at best disinterested in Labor's plight. On the other hand we also know that he considered Martok to be a great hero of the Empire and considered it dishonorable for a fellow noble to look down on him and deny him even the opportunity to advance himself because of his common birth. I actually kind of wish we'd seen the argument that led to his brawl with O'brien, I bet it would have been really interesting.

Of course, in the plot of the episode Worf says that it wouldn't have come to that if he wasn't stressing out over living on the station in the first place, so maybe he was just zoning out.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



Brawnfire posted:

It reminds me of the hospital shows where everything takes place at the reception area and one redressed room.

At least Scrubs managed to get around this by filming at an actual (decommissioned) hospital.

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

Sanguinia posted:

I feel like the school curriculum must have a "Capitalism is really bad," unit somewhere, probably multiple somewheres, and one would assume the Labor Movements and their fight against worker oppression is part of that.

I teach environment science right here in the early 21st century and I try to work it into my lessons wherever possible.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

Security? Please escort the fan in section 106, row 16, seat 1 out of the building right now and bar him from coming here again!




MikeJF posted:

I like some of the 'shhh look we get it' in the blueprints.

Like these rooms are the sickbay set on the show:



And then you zoom out to the, uh... 'full' sickbay that was totally there all the time we never saw it shut up



they definitely show a much larger back room with surgical equipment and whatnot

Terror Sweat
Mar 15, 2009



Epicurius posted:

I doubt it. I went to school in the 1980s-'90s, and there wasn't a big part of the curriculum devoted to how bad the idea of the divine right of kings was.

Besides, it's not like Earth's economic situation developed as a reaction to capitalism. It had a nuclear war and fell into anarchy, was rescued by the Vulcans and then discovered cheap energy and practical matter/energy conversion leading to the beginnings of a post-scarcity society.

No way, according to Sisko the Bell riots and ghettoes of the early 2020s directly led to an age of understanding and enlightenment, what is that if not a reaction to capitalism. When the Bell riots don't happen Starfleet doesn't either

Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Listen to Cylindricule!
https://linktr.ee/Cylindricule


The Federation was a seed that needed FIRE to germinate

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


When I was in school they definitely taught that kingship was bad. They were never that blunt I guess but history was always presented as democracy as the next (and final really)evolution of politics.

I also live in a conservative state so it must have stung a bit

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





CharlestheHammer posted:

When I was in school they definitely taught that kingship was bad. They were never that blunt I guess but history was always presented as democracy as the next (and final really)evolution of politics.

I also live in a conservative state so it must have stung a bit

The evolution of Enlightenment ideas as a refutation of the divine right of kings and the rise of the concept of the Rule of Law both leading to Representative Government as a replacement for prior forms was certainly a deal in my 8th grade social studies class this year

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

They just don't realize the final form of government is in fact, the best form: Space Republic quickly followed by Horrific Hivemind.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Sanguinia posted:

The evolution of Enlightenment ideas as a refutation of the divine right of kings and the rise of the concept of the Rule of Law both leading to Representative Government as a replacement for prior forms was certainly a deal in my 8th grade social studies class this year

Yeah I think if you just expect them to just say it sucks it might fool you but history has always loved to construct narratives from a long as the practice has been a thing. They just change with the times

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





This does raise an interesting question, which is how they would teach the history of other Federation planets and such. I'm sure children on Earth would be loving stoked, relatively speaking, to learn about ice-skate ninjas on Andoria, especially since it would be concievable to actually go to Andoria and see the ice skate ninja museum. Thus, things like the history of pre-atomic Earth would be covered but might not be deeply emphasized, or seen as important or eye-catching to children getting an Earthican schooling.

That said it would also be simple for O'Brien to teach him that it is Earth culture to never cross a picket line, and getting into a fist-fight with a Klingon is probably the absolute best way to demonstrate that efficiently, so good on Miles.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Nessus posted:

This does raise an interesting question, which is how they would teach the history of other Federation planets and such. I'm sure children on Earth would be loving stoked, relatively speaking, to learn about ice-skate ninjas on Andoria, especially since it would be concievable to actually go to Andoria and see the ice skate ninja museum. Thus, things like the history of pre-atomic Earth would be covered but might not be deeply emphasized, or seen as important or eye-catching to children getting an Earthican schooling.

That said it would also be simple for O'Brien to teach him that it is Earth culture to never cross a picket line, and getting into a fist-fight with a Klingon is probably the absolute best way to demonstrate that efficiently, so good on Miles.

I think there's probably some sort of Federation-standard curriculum, but I think what would end up happening is kids learning stuff themselves - there's just SO MUCH cool stuff like Andorian ice-skate ninjas and Romulan truth-samurais and such, and the fact that holodecks exist to make any lesson interactive, etc.

It must be a really cool time to be a growing child, tbh.

John F Bennett
Jan 30, 2013

I always wear my wedding ring. It's my trademark.



This so-called real life kinda sucks

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001




Terror Sweat posted:

No way, according to Sisko the Bell riots and ghettoes of the early 2020s directly led to an age of understanding and enlightenment, what is that if not a reaction to capitalism. When the Bell riots don't happen Starfleet doesn't either

Anything that happens in the 21st century is such a mess that it doesn't even make sense to try to figure out how the pieces fit together.

I mean, the reason that there's no Starfleet could be because somehow WWIII was prevented and, honestly, that sounds like a pretty solid timeline too.

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

Make a Starfleet with less obviously evil admirals.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


What if, and hear me out, we make them more obviously evil

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Brawnfire
Jul 13, 2004

Listen to Cylindricule!
https://linktr.ee/Cylindricule


Axe-man posted:

Make a Starfleet with less obviously evil admirals.

Less, or fewer?

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