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Trek Youtuber Steve Shives, and your mileage may vary on him, had a pretty good re-write for his own take on an ending for Enterprise that I enjoyed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ZpSkCOrLk
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Aug 16, 2022 20:33
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lol so apparently Spock returning in ST III was supposed to be a secret and it got leaked at the very start of shooting
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Aug 17, 2022 01:28
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Arglebargle III posted:lol so apparently Spock returning in ST III was supposed to be a secret thanks gene 
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Aug 17, 2022 01:38
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Cross-Section posted:thanks gene Gene definitely leaked the destruction of the Enterprise, because the script was traced back to him (just as he leaked Spock's death in WoK). I think what leaked was Bennett's early story outline for the movie and I don't think it was ever conclusively tracked to Gene.
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Aug 17, 2022 01:47
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There's a lot of neat stuff in The Final Frontier, but the movie doesn't dwell on any of it long enough to make a difference (the truce planet that was abandoned and became a hellhole, Vulcan psychic powers having near-messianic potential if they embrace their emotions instead of rejecting them, all these new character discoveries, galactic barrier? Floating head alien?). Which is the opposite problem from The Motion Picture where they spend a whole lot of time on just one or two things so it feels like nothing is happening. And then there's a lot of neat things that never really get touched on again in the franchise.nine-gear crow posted:tl;dr for These Are The Voyages if you really want to know: They save Shran's kid, she's in the same place they went to in the first episode in order to make the show circular. Trip electrocutes himself and dies for... reasons, and then the bring him back in the novel continuations of the show by literally going "that was dumb and pissed everyone off, it didn't happen." And it turns out that the episode is actually happening during the middle of The Pegasus from TNG, and Riker watching Trip kill himself on the holodeck inspires him to stand up to Pressman and reveal the illegal cloaking device to Picard. The final scene is Archer going to sign the Federation Charter, as glimpsed in Azati Prime, though Riker goes "End program" before Archer even signs it. The end. They also make a joke that Riker was Chef. I think in the episode it's implied that Riker kept pausing the program, leaving to do other stuff, and coming back days later. Which is also how it makes sense that in an episode of Lower Decks, Riker comes back right after watching Enterprise in the Holodeck. There was also a long-running thing in Enterprise where throughout the series the characters constantly talked about and referenced the chef, to the point that he actually seemed like more of a character than Travis or Malcolm without ever showing up onscreen. So it's bonkers for Riker to just show up as the chef.
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Aug 17, 2022 02:05
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I mean, the destruction of the Enterprise was in the trailer https://youtu.be/aCgWzlxnqhc
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Aug 17, 2022 02:06
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The random decon gel scenes make a lot more sense when you realize Enterprise is just the plot of a holosuite novel that Riker forgets to turn off.
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Aug 17, 2022 02:17
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bull3964 posted:I mean, the destruction of the Enterprise was in the trailer Yep. Harve Bennett made that call after Roddenberry leaked it. He figured, "Well, the toothpaste is out of the tube, might as well show our big effects scene in our marketing."
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Aug 17, 2022 02:22
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Burning_Monk posted:The random decon gel scenes make a lot more sense when you realize Enterprise is just the plot of a holosuite novel that Riker forgets to turn off. Some crazy fucker with too much time on their hands needs to go back and edit Riker into every episode of Enterprise now. Just have him in the background once an episode, mildly out of focus, but enough so that you just know it's him when you see him.
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Aug 17, 2022 02:26
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nine-gear crow posted:Some crazy fucker with too much time on their hands needs to go back and edit Riker into every episode of Enterprise now. Just have him in the background once an episode, mildly out of focus, but enough so that you just know it's him when you see him. The scene in The Catwalk where you see Chef’s feet, but now with a trombone swinging by them.
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Aug 17, 2022 02:28
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nine-gear crow posted:tl;dr for These Are The Voyages if you really want to know: They save Shran's kid, she's in the same place they went to in the first episode in order to make the show circular. Trip electrocutes himself and dies for... reasons, and then the bring him back in the novel continuations of the show by literally going "that was dumb and pissed everyone off, it didn't happen." And it turns out that the episode is actually happening during the middle of The Pegasus from TNG, and Riker watching Trip kill himself on the holodeck inspires him to stand up to Pressman and reveal the illegal cloaking device to Picard. The final scene is Archer going to sign the Federation Charter, as glimpsed in Azati Prime, though Riker goes "End program" before Archer even signs it. The end. They also make a joke that Riker was Chef. Also Archer is about to make one of the greatest speeches of all time, like the Gettysburg Address of the 22nd century, and they just cut. So great the writers couldn't write it...
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Aug 17, 2022 03:28
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Arglebargle III posted:lol so apparently Spock returning in ST III was supposed to be a secret Well they shouldn't have named it that then
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Aug 17, 2022 15:25
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The best thing about Star Trek 3 besides the
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Aug 17, 2022 15:44
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Astroman posted:Also Archer is about to make one of the greatest speeches of all time, like the Gettysburg Address of the 22nd century, and they just cut.
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Aug 18, 2022 00:04
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Giving my Dad the "only the important/good episodes of DS9" watch and we just finished the Dominion War arc and while he admits the show is better written than it was in the first three seasons (and Sisko, who he really disliked the first three seasons, almost became a new character at season 5). He does still remark that it "feels written for twelve year olds", and I think he's been exposed to "Prestige TV" move from The Sopranos and Breaking Bad onward that shows from the 80s-90s strike him as MCU-style fodder intended for people 15 and under. Shows from 25 years ago are in a very different cultural place than shows today, after all.
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Aug 18, 2022 01:26
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SuperTeeJay posted:As much as I hate the final episode, I'd take that approach over the usual montage of the speaker, audio fragments and an astounded audience that is used to convey 'Dude is real good with words'. they could have just hired some real speechwriters maybe get some of the speechwriters for that up and coming charismatic politician (and trek fan) who just won a senate seat, barack obama
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Aug 18, 2022 01:33
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SuperTeeJay posted:As much as I hate the final episode, I'd take that approach over the usual montage of the speaker, audio fragments and an astounded audience that is used to convey 'Dude is real good with words'. Berman and Braga probably figured they couldn't top the Archer Speech written by Manny Coto for Terra Prime one episode earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yus3e107X3Y Which is a really drat good speech and a nice way to end a series.
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Aug 18, 2022 02:45
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Craptacular! posted:Giving my Dad the "only the important/good episodes of DS9" watch and we just finished the Dominion War arc and while he admits the show is better written than it was in the first three seasons (and Sisko, who he really disliked the first three seasons, almost became a new character at season 5). He does still remark that it "feels written for twelve year olds", and I think he's been exposed to "Prestige TV" move from The Sopranos and Breaking Bad onward that shows from the 80s-90s strike him as MCU-style fodder intended for people 15 and under. Shows from 25 years ago are in a very different cultural place than shows today, after all. Does your dad only watch a finely curated selection of television from the very cream of the crop or something? I dare him to put on CBS for a week and come back with that opinion.
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Aug 18, 2022 03:53
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I need to constantly remind people I watch tv and movies with that things they are seeing are not real, and they don't need to flee the room anytime they see a train or motor car speeding directly towards camera. It's a new medium we need to give time for people to adapt.
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Aug 18, 2022 03:59
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Never realized until now, and maybe I’ll find out differently this watch through, but I don’t recall the Founders/Dominion ever giving a poo poo about the Bajoran Prophets/Wormhole aliens. So I’m on the episode where with the Federation uniform changeover and Sisko getting brain surgery. Was trying to keep a keep eye to see if there’s any tell that Bashir is a changeling in the episodes leading up to it. Nothing that I can tell. It may very well happen right before this episode. A few episodes prior was the episode where Worf and Dax go to Risa and Bashir, Leeta, and Quark tag along. I sure hope that was the real Bashir because otherwise Leeta was raped.  Edit: Did Alexander Siddig and/or the rest of the cast know that Bashir was a changeling, or was it a surprise to them? Detective No. 27 fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 04:37
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Detective No. 27 posted:So I’m on the episode where with the Federation uniform changeover and Sisko getting brain surgery. Was trying to keep a keep eye to see if there’s any tell that Bashir is a changeling in the episodes leading up to it. Nothing that I can tell. It may very well happen right before this episode. A few episodes prior was the episode where Worf and Dax go to Risa and Bashir, Leeta, and Quark tag along. I sure hope that was the real Bashir because otherwise Leeta was raped. The Bashir that performed brain surgery on Sisko was a Changeling. It's unknown when the switch happened but it was absolutely before Rapture. Bashir being a Changeling was an rear end-pull, much like him being genetically enhanced. The real Bashir doesn't return to the station until By Inferno's Light.
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Aug 18, 2022 04:42
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Detective No. 27 posted:Edit: Did Alexander Siddig and/or the rest of the cast know that Bashir was a changeling, or was it a surprise to them? If I recall the story correctly, the writers didn't even come up with the idea of the switch until the episode where it was revealed. Siddig in particular was kind of upset about that, since if he'd known it for the previous few episodes he would have LOVED to tweak his performance and put in just the sort of subtle clues you were hoping to find. Please correct me if I've misremembered.
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Aug 18, 2022 04:57
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Well that's a shame. Also, if we assume that the first thing Kasidy did after she got out of prison was to see Sisko, she got a far longer sentence for smuggling for the Maquis than Garak got for attempting to genocide the Founders and the attempted murder of several Star Fleet officers.
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Aug 18, 2022 05:41
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Detective No. 27 posted:Well that's a shame. Unfortunately, for as much of how DS9 was pre-planned with its broad strokes arcs, individual episodes often flew by the seat of their pants and just made poo poo up on the fly in the service of getting to the endgame. The genesis of all of Ron Moore's bad writing habits when it comes to serialized television, the ones that led to Battlestar Galactica splattering itself like a melon on concrete in its final years, occurs on Deep Space Nine.
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Aug 18, 2022 05:51
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Craptacular! posted:Giving my Dad the "only the important/good episodes of DS9" watch and we just finished the Dominion War arc and while he admits the show is better written than it was in the first three seasons (and Sisko, who he really disliked the first three seasons, almost became a new character at season 5). He does still remark that it "feels written for twelve year olds", and I think he's been exposed to "Prestige TV" move from The Sopranos and Breaking Bad onward that shows from the 80s-90s strike him as MCU-style fodder intended for people 15 and under. Shows from 25 years ago are in a very different cultural place than shows today, after all. I might be alone in thinking this in this thread, but I think your Dad is right. A great deal of Star Trek is little more than simple morality plays in a neat sci-fi setting. It's very similar to The Twilight Zone in that regard. But like The Twilight Zone, it also features some absolutely classic stories that haven't been done nearly as well anywhere else, and that's why Star Trek endures. Deep Space Nine was just a twist on the classic, with slightly better writing (only slightly, though) and a more cohesive, though still, by comparison to today's shows, pretty threadbare overall story arc.
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Aug 18, 2022 06:31
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nine-gear crow posted:Berman and Braga probably figured they couldn't top the Archer Speech written by Manny Coto for Terra Prime one episode earlier: It's a pretty good speech and I want to strangle whoever gave Bakula the direction to rooster strut around the room pausing every two words for overly dramatic effect.
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Aug 18, 2022 07:52
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Penitent posted:It's a pretty good speech and I want to strangle whoever gave Bakula the direction to rooster strut around the room pausing every two words for overly dramatic effect. Coming off like a preening dick orchestra while saying a bunch of things that, on paper, are extremely inspiring and insightful is the Jonathan Archer Special.
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Aug 18, 2022 11:33
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nine-gear crow posted:Unfortunately, for as much of how DS9 was pre-planned with its broad strokes arcs, individual episodes often flew by the seat of their pants and just made poo poo up on the fly in the service of getting to the endgame. The genesis of all of Ron Moore's bad writing habits when it comes to serialized television, the ones that led to Battlestar Galactica splattering itself like a melon on concrete in its final years, occurs on Deep Space Nine. The DS9 documentary shows just how awful and masturbatory Moore's writing process is.
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Aug 18, 2022 13:03
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Mike the TV posted:The DS9 documentary shows just how awful and masturbatory Moore's writing process is. And yet, he was still one of the show's best writers!
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Aug 18, 2022 13:11
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The episode where Odo gets the changeling baby is funnier knowing that Fake Bashir was there to watch a dead baby undo Odo's punishment for treason.
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Aug 18, 2022 13:51
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No Dignity posted:And yet, he was still one of the show's best writers! It's a process that can work great episodically but it's hard to stick a landing.
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Aug 18, 2022 15:43
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Detective No. 27 posted:Never realized until now, and maybe I’ll find out differently this watch through, but I don’t recall the Founders/Dominion ever giving a poo poo about the Bajoran Prophets/Wormhole aliens. The Dominion is never really aware of the wormhole aliens. From their perspective, their only interaction is sending the invasion force into the wormhole, and then it just doesn't come out the other side.
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Aug 18, 2022 16:56
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SlothfulCobra posted:The Dominion is never really aware of the wormhole aliens. From their perspective, their only interaction is sending the invasion force into the wormhole, and then it just doesn't come out the other side. It was a little weird that there was a whole occupation arc and the wormhole aliens and Bajoran religion never really came up much. Particularly given that this is a point where Gul Dukat is moving in the direction of realising they're a real thing.
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Aug 18, 2022 17:05
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"You consider the Founders gods." "That's different." "How?!?" "They ARE gods."
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Aug 18, 2022 17:11
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Well they'd be well aware Starfleet said they came into contact with the beings residing in the wormhole, that's public information. And it was never said onscreen but the writers worked on the assumption that the prophets continued eating any Jem'Hadar ships that tried to traverse the wormhole after they cut their deal with Sisko, and there's no way the Dominion didn't test it out a few times from their end, so they presumably came to the conclusion that the Wormhole Aliens had chosen to block the passage. Actually, that brings up an interesting question: did the dominion force in the Alpha Quadrant have any contact with the Gamma Quadrant Dominion after Sacrifice of Angels and before the finale? Was the female changeling just assuming the Great Link hadn't cured or succumbed to the disease?
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Aug 18, 2022 17:12
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MikeJF posted:Well they'd be well aware Starfleet said they came into contact with the beings residing in the wormhole, that's public information. And it was never said onscreen but the writers worked on the assumption that the prophets continued eating any Jem'Hadar ships that tried to traverse the wormhole after they cut their deal with Sisko, and there's no way the Dominion didn't test it out a few times from their end, so they presumably came to the conclusion that the Wormhole Aliens had chosen to block the passage.
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Aug 18, 2022 17:16
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Qs are gods, right? Kevin Uxbridge - god. Cytherians, also gods. The universe is absolutely swarming with gods and TNG atheists get around that by going "no they're just super aliens". And you know what, some of these gods do need a starship and it's insensitive to bring it up.
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Aug 18, 2022 17:23
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I for one welcome our gods-with-starships overlords.
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Aug 18, 2022 17:26
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Alchenar posted:It was a little weird that there was a whole occupation arc and the wormhole aliens and Bajoran religion never really came up much. Particularly given that this is a point where Gul Dukat is moving in the direction of realising they're a real thing. That's basically because by that point the whole of Bajor is no longer a relevant character on the show.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:46
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Detective No. 27 posted:The episode where Odo gets the changeling baby is funnier knowing that Fake Bashir was there to watch a dead baby undo Odo's punishment for treason. Who do you think gave it to Quark? If anything that episode showed Fake Bashir that Odo is in fact not completely trusting of the solids since he tried so hard to keep it away from Federation science. With him being forgiven for his treason by the founder during the war arc, it fits together well. The stupid part was always how Fake Bashir's endgame would have killed Odo as well, though he is also "more important than the Alpha Quadrant itself". Alchenar posted:It was a little weird that there was a whole occupation arc and the wormhole aliens and Bajoran religion never really came up much. Particularly given that this is a point where Gul Dukat is moving in the direction of realising they're a real thing. The thing about Dukat is he blatantly has a Creepy Old Man Boner for Bajor, and given the length of the occupation and the concubines and hidden daughter and whatnot, it's understandable he'd be more savvy to their culture. Even if he wasn't knee-deep in Bajor, simply dealing with Sisko would have taught him that there's more to Bajoran gods than he thought. The Founders made themselves known to Bajor to set up a religion whose purpose is to relay messages to The Emissary since they have no precise ability to influence linear time. It's unlikely the Dominion sees the wormhole as anything but a space anomaly. The funny thing is as much as Dukat in the first half of the show is the guy who is So Proud Of Cardassia but obviously stooged and kept in the dark by the truly powerful in the high command, but in the second half he is defined as the guy who likely has an "I'd Go Whorin' For A Bajoran" bumper sticker in his garage and it's that trait which is most costly. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 18:53
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