Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«466 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




Spalec posted:

Is there any reason to watch TNG/DS9/VOY in air order rather then just watch each series and then move on to the next? Were there much in the way of crossovers?

I know Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel had a few where you had to bounce back and forth between the shows to get the most out of the story, anything like that on Star Trek?

When DS9 starts, there's a quick crossover episode for each. On TNG they go to DS9 and do whatever. On DS9, Picard shows up and Sisko is all "You killed my wife." A thing happens for Voyager too I think. Each is self contained and you don't need to do simultaneous watches or anything.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

King Possum III
Feb 15, 2016



Spalec posted:

Is there any reason to watch TNG/DS9/VOY in air order rather then just watch each series and then move on to the next? Were there much in the way of crossovers?

I know Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel had a few where you had to bounce back and forth between the shows to get the most out of the story, anything like that on Star Trek?

Deep Space Nine has a definite timeline regarding plot. Seasons 1 and 2 have a lot of stand-alone episodes, but if you want to get the most out of the last few seasons, you need to have an understanding what's happened before.

This is especially true of the last season, which is by far the most engrossing, with lots of edge-of-your-seat drama.

WickedHate
Jul 31, 2013

by Lowtax


Deep Space Nine was really, really ahead of it's time.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

You know, I think I liked Polaski better than Crusher.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002


Fister Roboto posted:

You know, I think I liked Polaski better than Crusher.
Pulaski was a space racist and an unsubtle attempt to recapture the magic of Deforest Kelley. And the Spock/Bones dynamic.

Unfortunately, taunting an Android is about as sympathetic as making fun of an autistic kid who loves trains, so she comes off as a dick most of the time.

Der Luftwaffle
Dec 29, 2008


She eventually got over her prejudice and came to accept him properly, which was more character progression than most of the other leads got over 7 seasons. I saw TNG before TOS and while the Bones similarities were obvious, she played it sincerely and well and never deserved the hate.

King Possum III
Feb 15, 2016



Fister Roboto posted:

You know, I think I liked Polaski better than Crusher.

Diana Muldaur, the actress who played Dr. Katherine Pulaski, didn't get along very well with the rest of the cast of TNG.

The producers felt that she didn't play off against the other actors very well, and that this was noticeable in the episodes she appeared in. She was not popular with her fellow actors, and was either let go, or else her contract was not renewed.

I read a lengthy article about this but I can't remember all the details.

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013


Pulaski is a TNG character that I usually forget even existed until she is mentioned somewhere.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Coach Bloodshot
Default Status: SHOUTING


They cover a bit of it in Chaos on the Bridge.

Blade_of_tyshalle
Jul 12, 2009

If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.



Dr. Selar

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

DAMMIT WESLEY!!!


The only big crossover is Worf joining the DS9 regular cast in season 4. Otherwise it's an episode here and there that really doesn't require you to know the other series.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

You wildly underestimated my liver's ability to metabolize toxins.

FlamingLiberal posted:

The only big crossover is Worf joining the DS9 regular cast in season 4. Otherwise it's an episode here and there that really doesn't require you to know the other series.

The chief needs to talk to you.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Thom12255 posted:

Pulaski is a TNG character that I usually forget even existed until she is mentioned somewhere.

She's only good to let you know you're watching a season two episode.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

The icequake is a cover-up





Mister Kingdom posted:

She's only good to let you know you're watching a season two episode.

She's generally a more interesting character than Beverly. That's not to say better or more likable necessarily. If Dr Crusher has more good episodes it's only by virtue of being in six times as many, and I'm not even really sure she does.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000



future scoopin'...


I liked Pulaski in the Moriarty episode. She had a semi-legitimate point for once in questioning if Data was capable of true deduction in the style of Holmes, since it requires a level of intuition and understanding of the Human Condition an artificial mind might not be capable of, and the way she played off Moriarty himself as his prisoner was quite entertaining.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009


On the other hand, doesn't she just not appear in The Measure Of A Man, probably because they realised that she'd be the villain in that story?

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

The icequake is a cover-up





Gaz-L posted:

On the other hand, doesn't she just not appear in The Measure Of A Man, probably because they realised that she'd be the villain in that story?

Not the villian, I think. Her physiological expertise was irrelevant, though, pretty much.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


Pulaski is a much better character than Crusher and its because they pretty much directly imported her from TOS, a show where characters (all three of them) were allowed to get on each other's nerves and have sharply contrasting attitudes and beliefs. She is pretty much one-note and a bit of a bitch, but that still puts her way ahead of Crusher, who doesn't appear to have any attitudes or beliefs at all beyond a general desire to do doctorly poo poo. I would much rather have had six seasons of Pulaski.

King Possum III posted:

Diana Muldaur, the actress who played Dr. Katherine Pulaski, didn't get along very well with the rest of the cast of TNG.

The producers felt that she didn't play off against the other actors very well, and that this was noticeable in the episodes she appeared in. She was not popular with her fellow actors, and was either let go, or else her contract was not renewed.

I read a lengthy article about this but I can't remember all the details.

The whole reason Muldaur was on the show to begin with was that McFadden apparently got molested by some producer or other (Roddenberry's sleazy lawyer, possibly) and said "gently caress this". Patrick Stewart among others was pretty mad about this and campaigned hard to bring her back. This is part of why I think Pulaski's character works, she feels like a really strong-minded individual who just doesn't want to play along with the rest of the crew and there's nothing forced about that feeling.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




As a doctor, wouldn't she have been an expert on what is alive? They had that robot guy testifying, I'd figure they'd have some kind of doctor as well.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

The icequake is a cover-up





Cojawfee posted:

As a doctor, wouldn't she have been an expert on what is alive? They had that robot guy testifying, I'd figure they'd have some kind of doctor as well.

That is a question of philosophy, or perhaps psychology (since Data's sapience was more important than his merely being alive) not physiology. The "not alive" side could have had an MD on as a stunt witness pretty much, but it was a given that he wasn't an evolved biological life form so what more would she say?

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

DAMMIT WESLEY!!!


Pulaski is the worst because she clashes with the rest of the cast. They clearly wanted a female Dr. McCoy and it doesn't work. I thought Crusher always worked better with Picard especially since they have the backstory of her husband being Picard's first officer and his tragic death and everything. Plus the on/off romance stuff.

Zesty
Jan 17, 2012



Tortured By Flan




Same actress as Worf's Mate, Lady Q, and the bad Andorian Woman.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




Trent posted:

That is a question of philosophy, or perhaps psychology (since Data's sapience was more important than his merely being alive) not physiology. The "not alive" side could have had an MD on as a stunt witness pretty much, but it was a given that he wasn't an evolved biological life form so what more would she say?

I guess that's more of a question for the Lal episode.

WickedHate
Jul 31, 2013

by Lowtax


Pulaski could have made Measure of the Man even more interesting if they made it her big heel realization.

Kazy
Oct 23, 2006



Dinosaur Gum

WickedHate posted:

Pulaski could have made Measure of the Man even more interesting if they made it her big heel realization.

Isn't something like that in the extended version of the episode on the blurays?

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

I'll fight... I will!


I like Pulaski more than Crusher but that's more a condemnation of Crusher for being extremely boring. The only good episode I can think of focused on her is the one with the warp bubble

Baka-nin
Jan 25, 2015



Spalec posted:

Is there any reason to watch TNG/DS9/VOY in air order rather then just watch each series and then move on to the next? Were there much in the way of crossovers?

I know Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel had a few where you had to bounce back and forth between the shows to get the most out of the story, anything like that on Star Trek?

In addition to the other comments there's also a two parter in late TNG called the Birthright that starts at DS9, I lack of knowledge of DS9 shouldn't be very confusing but it does mean the first five or ten minutes are kinda of padding before the A and B plots kick in.

Oh and like the Maquis a bunch of Cardassian episode in TNG help flesh them out for DS9 and a few minor Cardassian characters show up in both series while they were both running. But its not important to know them before hand.

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007



And there's also a major plot point in late DS9 that effects some of the Voyager crew when they find out. The Maquis being obliterated. Overall, there isn't much you'd lose by not watching them by airdate, but there is some minor cross-show worldbuilding that would likely be most effective when viewed by airdate.

Apollodorus
Feb 13, 2010

TEST YOUR MIGHT


Baka-nin posted:

In addition to the other comments there's also a two parter in late TNG called the Birthright that starts at DS9, I lack of knowledge of DS9 shouldn't be very confusing but it does mean the first five or ten minutes are kinda of padding before the A and B plots kick in.

Oh and like the Maquis a bunch of Cardassian episode in TNG help flesh them out for DS9 and a few minor Cardassian characters show up in both series while they were both running. But its not important to know them before hand.

Doctor Bashir actually figures prominently into Birthright Part I. He helps Data test out his dream subroutines, and then promises to give him co-author credit when he publishes an academic paper on it.

WickedHate
Jul 31, 2013

by Lowtax


Apollodorus posted:

Doctor Bashir actually figures prominently into Birthright Part I. He helps Data test out his dream subroutines, and then promises to give him co-author credit when he publishes an academic paper on it.

Wouldn't that be more suited to an engineer?

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

Apollodorus posted:

Doctor Bashir actually figures prominently into Birthright Part I. He helps Data test out his dream subroutines, and then promises to give him co-author credit when he publishes an academic paper on it.

Fun fact: as originally scripted, that was supposed to be Jadzia Dax doing all that. But the filming of Move Along Home was running long and the actress was busy with that, so the show runners did a big search-and-replace on her name in the script and sent Bashir over as a last-second replacement.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

The icequake is a cover-up





cheetah7071 posted:

I like Pulaski more than Crusher but that's more a condemnation of Crusher for being extremely boring. The only good episode I can think of focused on her is the one with the warp bubble

Yeah, that's one of the only really good Beverly episodes. The one where she's mindlinked to Picard is also good. She gets to remember metaphasic shielding from her Ferengi friend, and goes on a cool ninja adventure with Worf and Picard for extremely contrived reasons. These are nearly canceled out by mirror-corridor yoga and sex candles, however.

Her character bio is mostly "Dr. Mom" and it's pretty bland.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002


Der Luftwaffle posted:

She eventually got over her prejudice and came to accept him properly, which was more character progression than most of the other leads got over 7 seasons.
She always felt like that person that gets shifted into your worksite and just spends most of their time complaining about how much better her old place was/how you're lacking this/bitching about doing more work. Then they take long absences because they're unhappy and at the end of the year are either surprised that everyone thinks working with them is a pain or leaves suddenly and makes everyone else cover their assignment.

Anyway, Pulaski only changes her tune after Data cures her of old person disease.

Baka-nin
Jan 25, 2015



Apollodorus posted:

Doctor Bashir actually figures prominently into Birthright Part I. He helps Data test out his dream subroutines, and then promises to give him co-author credit when he publishes an academic paper on it.

That's true but the episode shows him as just some nerd from the station messing around with the ships medical equipment and some weird energy cannon. Knowing him from the other show doesn't really add anything to it.


Powered Descent posted:

Fun fact: as originally scripted, that was supposed to be Jadzia Dax doing all that. But the filming of Move Along Home was running long and the actress was busy with that, so the show runners did a big search-and-replace on her name in the script and sent Bashir over as a last-second replacement.

Yeah and if I remember right Terry Farrell was not pleased with this change.

"I cried. I thought I should have fallen off the rock so I could have gone over there instead of Sid disappearing, because when we were filming "Move Along Home" his character disappeared, and I was acting throughout the rest of it with Nana and Avery, and we got caught up together"

DrNutt
Apr 12, 2007

So I guess my dad died.


cheetah7071 posted:

I like Pulaski more than Crusher but that's more a condemnation of Crusher for being extremely boring. The only good episode I can think of focused on her is the one with the warp bubble

I used to like this episode a lot, but it's one of those episodes where knowing the twist makes the episode weaker and less fun to watch on repeated viewings.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Boo boo kitty?


Crusher is boring and has zero personality. Try to describe her without using the words "Doctor", "Picard's friend", or "Wesley's mom". You can't. The only time they ever did anything with the potentially interesting "works under the command of the man responsible for her husband's death and also possible love interest" was in the last season. And even then, it's one episode and a couple scenes in the finale and it's mostly the writer's room going "hmm, we should really try to wrap up the Picard & Crusher stuff".

Pulaski isn't a good fit for TNG, but at least she's more entertaining than Crusher.

Instant Sunrise
Apr 12, 2007


Keep the skies clear for me.




Grimey Drawer

Maybe there's something wrong with the universe.

Gammatron 64
Nov 28, 2007

Die-cast construction.
It's a lost art.


So I was talking to my roommate about Star Trek and the logistics of it all and I stumbled upon the most confounding mystery of Star Trek. To us, at least.

So, the Federation is a post-scarcity, money free economy. Nobody really has to work and people go into starfleet and build spaceships and stuff because if they didn't, they'd get really bored or just gently caress holograms all day. Food, clothing and the like can be made with replicators, so money isn't needed. Okay, I can buy that. They have almost unlimited energy and resources.

But... then there's Sisko's dad. His dad has this Cajun restaurant in New Orleans. And this got me thinking. What about real estate? Sure, people colonize other planets, but who determines where you get to live on Earth? Sisko's dad has this restaurant with cooks and waiters who work for free. Did the Federation just give him the land to have a restaurant? How do they determine who gets to set up a restaurant in this location or a house somewhere else? You can replicate food and clothes, but you can't replicate land. Likewise, I was watching an episode of Voyager and Barclay has this big, swanky apartment on earth.

So basically we decided that the greatest mystery of Star Trek is how real estate works in an economy with no money.

Met posted:



Same actress as Worf's Mate, Lady Q, and the bad Andorian Woman.

Wish she showed up in more episodes. They were actually thinking of doing a romance between her and Worf which would have been... different.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

The best avatar on Something Awful!


Sisko's dad's restaurant pokes so many goddamn holes in the Star Trek economy. Who the gently caress would be a busboy for no pay? Those clams Sisko is cleaning don't look replicated, they're fresh. Otherwise he wouldn't need to clean them. Who's catching these clams?

There's a million questions that arise due to it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

I'll fight... I will!


The best explanation I've heard is that while basic needs and sufficient luxuries are freely available, if you want to satisfy intangibles like ambition or obtaining the respect of your peers, or something limited, like real estate, you better go get a job

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«466 »