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Blade_of_tyshalle
Jul 12, 2009

If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.



Or hide near the core, where it's crowded and your ship is probably hard to detect. Galaxy is a big place, after all, and Voyager comes from the future and knows a lot about history.

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Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?

Baronjutter posted:

Once you start to think the slightest bit about the economy or manufacturing abilities of a world like star trek everything unravels. They should have been pumping out 100 defiants a day in a massive self-replicating constantly expanding automated shipyard crewed by holograms.

Star Trek's economy makes significantly more sense if you assume that the Federation is only really post-scarcity at a relatively low level. Everything the average Federation citizen might ever want or need can be produced so cheaply that it's effectively free, but starships still require materials and expertise that are in extremely limited supply. It's a world where the value of everything is either a fraction of a fraction of a penny or millions of dollars with no space in between.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003



TheCenturion posted:

Well, as apocryphal as it is, I recall several of the old Pocket Books novels mentioning that they avoided hitting .25c in impulse because time distortion becomes annoying.




wusses

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Tell him about the Twinkie.

CubanMissile posted:

Any chance Discovery brings about a renewed interest is DS9, and with the the possibility of an HD remaster? Or am I living in a fool's paradise?

A DS9 HD remaster is almost certainly never going to happen. TNG is the most popular and high-profile modern-era Trek by far (outside of the reboot movies), and the Blu-rays after the first and second season sold about as well as a wet fart in church. They were prohibitively expensive to make (because beyond re-doing / re-compositing the effects, they literally manually re-cut every single episode) and barely moved any units.

DS9, comparatively, is the red-headed stepchild of Trek and has had its CGI source files, with a few scant exceptions here and there (which will be seen in that upcoming DS9 documentary that Adam Nimoy just backed out from) lost to the sands of time--and beyond that, they were rendered at 720x480 NTSC resolution.

Enterprise was easily put out on Blu-ray because it was produced in HD from day one.

So, no. We're not seeing DS9 anytime soon. Or ever.

Al Borland Corp.
Mar 4, 2017

I don't think so Tim

Wait I've got it, Voyager can put people in cryosleep and then hide out in the Delta quadrant, that's unexplored.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

The icequake is a cover-up







Timby posted:


So, no. We're not seeing DS9 anytime soon. Or ever.

Eh in ten years or whatever arbitrary time you want there will be a fan edit with better renders than the original done on somebody's watch.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I just *LOVE* spoonheads

Eh, the Department of Temporal Investigations would probably step in at that point.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

one stripe on the sleeve means lieutenant moose to you, asshole

The Bloop posted:

Eh in ten years or whatever arbitrary time you want there will be a fan edit with better renders than the original done on somebody's watch.

But I don't want HD for the slick exteriors, I want it for clean and vibrant film footage.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

I would love for them to at least say they are scanning the film elements because once they're gone, they're gone. The chances of them losing something keeps increasing as time goes on.

Cingulate
Oct 23, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


bull3964 posted:

I would love for them to at least say they are scanning the film elements because once they're gone, they're gone. The chances of them losing something keeps increasing as time goes on.
How expensive would that be?

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Tell him about the Twinkie.

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

But I don't want HD for the slick exteriors, I want it for clean and vibrant film footage.

God, yes. That little bit of the Promenade we saw in TNG HD was gorgeous.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

Cingulate posted:

How expensive would that be?

It's likely a low cost compared to getting a final edited episode out there. But if they have no plans to eventually monetize it, they probably won't do it.

Cingulate
Oct 23, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


bull3964 posted:

It's likely a low cost compared to getting a final edited episode out there. But if they have no plans to eventually monetize it, they probably won't do it.
Maybe it's easily within kickstarter range.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Tell him about the Twinkie.

Cingulate posted:

Maybe it's easily within kickstarter range.

CBS is not handing over its film reels to a fan project, and there are about three zillion legal reasons why they couldn't take fan money.

Cingulate
Oct 23, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Timby posted:

CBS is not handing over its film reels to a fan project, and there are about three zillion legal reasons why they couldn't take fan money.
I forgot to tell you about the part of the plan where CBS execs are infected by a targeted genetic disease until they agree to

ashpanash
Apr 9, 2008

I can see when you are lying.


Grand Fromage posted:

You do gain mass as you accelerate though, which increases energy costs.

No, you don't. Your mass stays constant. If anything, it decreases as you use fuel. The energy costs increase because your speed relative to some other frame is only increasing by a lorentz factor, not linearly.

The total energy in your system as measured by an outside observer is always increasing, but the concept of 'relativistic mass' is one that's been abandoned, precisely because it causes this sort of confusion.

Al Borland Corp.
Mar 4, 2017

I don't think so Tim

No I definitely remember Wally said it was a Flash fact and then punched an alien to the moon

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



I wonder if you can think of it as being harder to accelerate because meters are getting shorter but time is constant, from the ship perspective.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

The icequake is a cover-up







Arglebargle III posted:

I wonder if you can think of it as being harder to accelerate because meters are getting shorter but time is constant, from the ship perspective.

That sounds like it would make it easier to accelerate.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.

Paradoxish posted:

Star Trek's economy makes significantly more sense if you assume that the Federation is only really post-scarcity at a relatively low level. Everything the average Federation citizen might ever want or need can be produced so cheaply that it's effectively free, but starships still require materials and expertise that are in extremely limited supply. It's a world where the value of everything is either a fraction of a fraction of a penny or millions of dollars with no space in between.
Yeah, this seems to make sense. It's also probably slightly unfair to judge the show for not being "the Culture novels, exactly" when I believe the Culture novels were all written after TNG was on the air, and seem, based on the repeated comparisons, to be significantly informed by Trek. It would be like complaining the Lensmen didn't have lightsabers.

They do sort of address this in the tech manual, mostly by saying "well you could probably replicate the carpets but those technologies don't scale as well as you might hope." They even had a guy they quoted as pointing out that if Starfleet COULD push a button to mass-replicate Enterprises... would they need to?

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I just *LOVE* spoonheads

Nessus posted:

Yeah, this seems to make sense. It's also probably slightly unfair to judge the show for not being "the Culture novels, exactly" when I believe the Culture novels were all written after TNG was on the air, and seem, based on the repeated comparisons, to be significantly informed by Trek. It would be like complaining the Lensmen didn't have lightsabers.

They do sort of address this in the tech manual, mostly by saying "well you could probably replicate the carpets but those technologies don't scale as well as you might hope." They even had a guy they quoted as pointing out that if Starfleet COULD push a button to mass-replicate Enterprises... would they need to?

It's mentioned that there are industrial replicators that do manufacture starship parts, but can't outright replicate the entire ship and it's implied that it takes years to learn how to use an industrial replicator probably.

I think the greatest limiting resource for the Federation is simply trained personnel. They might be post-scarcity in terms of material resources, but the bottleneck is always going to be the time and hard work it takes to train people to operate their advanced technology.

Blade_of_tyshalle
Jul 12, 2009

If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.



Eh, just plug em into that penal colony thing O'Brien was in, they can get a three-year education in five minutes.

Al Borland Corp.
Mar 4, 2017

I don't think so Tim

Cythereal posted:

It's mentioned that there are industrial replicators that do manufacture starship parts, but can't outright replicate the entire ship and it's implied that it takes years to learn how to use an industrial replicator probably.

I think the greatest limiting resource for the Federation is simply trained personnel. They might be post-scarcity in terms of material resources, but the bottleneck is always going to be the time and hard work it takes to train people to operate their advanced technology.

That sounds like a job for the Robert Picardo brigade

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


Cythereal posted:

I think the greatest limiting resource for the Federation is simply trained personnel. They might be post-scarcity in terms of material resources, but the bottleneck is always going to be the time and hard work it takes to train people to operate their advanced technology.

In the novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as canon as that is, it talks about how the big bottleneck is actually finding people to join Starfleet. Humanity has become so comfortable and jaded living lives of luxury that they've lost any sense of adventure or curiosity, and Starfleet are made of psychological throwbacks...people who actually can face the unknown without mentally shutting down.

Blade_of_tyshalle
Jul 12, 2009

If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.



So, Starfleet is full of morons and degenerates. Makes sense.

dont even fink about it
Oct 9, 2005

The right reading for this is the one I'm giving.

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

So, Starfleet is full of morons and degenerates. Makes sense.

Everyone in Starfleet loves baseball, an incredibly boring game that went extinct hundreds of years ago, and is so absurd that even advanced alien intelligences don't understand it. So, yeah.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Tell him about the Twinkie.

Epicurius posted:

In the novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as canon as that is

Roddenberry considered it canon, since he wrote it.

But no one should ever care about what Gene thought.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

So, Starfleet is full of morons and degenerates. Makes sense.

Exactly. It's odd. There's this bit about how most people now are part of the "New Human movement", which is this super-intelligent telepathic group mind, but that when they tried to send them into space, the crews would mutiny and ships would disappear, because, according to the Vulcans, the New Humans were "seduced by the alien life forms, higher philosophies, aspirations and consciousness levels being encountered." So, Kirk's graduating class at the academy was the first picked "on the basis of somewhat more limited intellectual agility."

SpeakSlow
May 17, 2004


Well, standard ship complement anyways. It's why I like Disco. Mad future science that don't give a gently caress.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003



Nessus posted:

Yeah, this seems to make sense. It's also probably slightly unfair to judge the show for not being "the Culture novels, exactly" when I believe the Culture novels were all written after TNG was on the air, and seem, based on the repeated comparisons, to be significantly informed by Trek. It would be like complaining the Lensmen didn't have lightsabers.

Actually, the first few predate TNG.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.

MikeJF posted:

Actually, the first few predate TNG.
Huh, guess my timing was wrong! I'd hardly ever heard them referred to before, oh, 2007 or so.

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup


Pillbug

Al Borland Corp. posted:

That sounds like a job for the Robert Picardo brigade

"What is the nature of the engineering emer...oh its you. I mean me."
"Did you complete the laser sealing of the Kendle Sprockets in the right nacelle?"
"I thought that was YOUR job!?!"
"NO, it wasn't. I specifically told you to do..."
"NO YOU DIDNT! Why you..."
*Andy Dick Foreman appears*
"Quit it you two. Get back to work."

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


happyhippy posted:

"What is the nature of the engineering emer...oh its you. I mean me."
"Did you complete the laser sealing of the Kendle Sprockets in the right nacelle?"
"I thought that was YOUR job!?!"
"NO, it wasn't. I specifically told you to do..."
"NO YOU DIDNT! Why you..."
*Andy Dick Foreman appears*
"Quit it you two. Get back to work."

I see a glimmer of something brilliant here: Star Trek, except it's the Three Stooges, except they're all Robert Picardo.

mycomancy
Oct 16, 2016


Roadie posted:

I see a glimmer of something brilliant here: Star Trek, except it's the Three Stooges, except they're all Robert Picardo.

A "well HE roped ME into this!" scene would be awesome.

turn left hillary!! noo
Feb 12, 2002

Don't want the usual merchandise
recycled in a new disguise


Roadie posted:

I see a glimmer of something brilliant here: Star Trek, except it's the Three Stooges, except they're all Robert Picardo.

Picardo as Moe, Armin Shimerman as Curly, and Colm Meaney as Larry

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Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

MENTALLY
DEFEATED


turn left hillary!! noo posted:

Picardo as Moe, Armin Shimerman as Curly, and Colm Meaney as Larry

Somebody get this man a producer credit

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