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a retard
Jan 7, 2013

by Lowtax


threeagainstfour posted:

You gotta use img tags my dude.

And yeah, Frankie is pretty bad/stupid for going all in on the Bahrain stuff, I agree with you.

That doesn't mean that Conor's El Chapo stuff was any less ignorant.

https://twitter.com/thenotoriousmma...998711502589952

I know actually caring about things is a cardinal sin among goons, but I'm Mexican American and I just found the whole thing really ignorant and distasteful. It's not like he dressed up as Scarface or some fictional character. He dressed up as a guy whose organization is responsible for the deaths of literally thousands of innocent people and has destroyed lives and destabilized areas of Mexico to an extreme degree.

If there were a living, Irish equivalent to El Chapo I don't think you would have seen Conor up there proudly declaring himself the Irish mass murdering gangster drug lord of the UFC.

Anyway, sorry for the derail guys.

I can see how it can be offensive but it's not like rappers haven't been comparing themselves to Capone and Escobar for decades now.

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vainman
Nov 2, 2012

I find your lack of faith... disturbing

Doesn't the Bahrain guy sponsor conor too? I don't really care but I am amazed the typically strict ufc contracts allow fighters to hang out with Chechen warlords and what not. It's like the Miami heat playing an exhibition game in Iran

Hardbody Jones
Dec 14, 2002



More shameful than any of that was last year when Weidman, Mir, Werdum and maybe some others went to Chechnya to hang out with literal war criminal Ramzan Kadyrov

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



Like fd has said time and time again if you seperate fighters in the cage from who they are as people you'll like the sport a lot more.

vainman
Nov 2, 2012

I find your lack of faith... disturbing

BlindSite posted:

Like fd has said time and time again if you seperate fighters in the cage from who they are as people you'll like the sport a lot more.

I like making value judgements on someone's lifestyle or haircut or whatever and then watching them win or lose. It's the best way to add drama without making a bet

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

I don't promote fights, I pick fights. I'm better than Jon Jones. I'm better than Sean Combs. I am even better than John Holmes.



BlindSite posted:

Like fd has said time and time again if you seperate fighters in the cage from who they are as people you'll like the sport a lot more.

I think if you are a sperg who is going to hate everyone based on very little (MATT BROWN A REPUBLICAN gently caress HIM!) then sure this applies. But I'm an adult that enjoys the athletes as dynamic people. If you rep Bahrain, gently caress off.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



Do what makes ya happy. All im getting at is probably not the wisest thing ever to expect people who get facepunched for a living to know about geopolitics etc.

vainman
Nov 2, 2012

I find your lack of faith... disturbing

They probably know but they just don't care/it's good money/sometimes they get to take really fun pictures in gold bathtubs with gold assault rifles


Xtanstic
Nov 22, 2007



Hey I follow casually the UFC and lurk the monthly threads. I was wondering if someone can post a breakdown of the various gyms and training camps? Off the top of my casual head:

AKA - everyone gets hurt all the time? (cainlegextension.mpeg) Notable fighters: DC, Cain, ????
Tristar - GSP and Firas camp. Rory trains here. That Scottish chick that fought Val Letourneau had a camp there. I'm guessing all the Canadian up and comers like Oliver Aubin Mercier and Elias Theodoru. Arguably one of the best camps alongside Jackson-Wink?
Jackson-Wink - AZ based. Jon Jones, Holly Holm, a bunch of other ones. They fight smart but boring?
Duane Ludwig in Denver - TJ and uh????
Nova Uniao - Aldo, Gadelha, Barao. Have a notorious rep for full out sparring in the chute boxe vein of thinking?
Edmond gym in AZ - a bad coach and a bad camp?
TAM - uhhh chinbutt and shirtless dudes? PvZ?

Am I forgetting any major ones? Is there like a consensus "tier list" of better vs not as good gyms? I'm also curious if there are fighters who have switched camps and have showed significant improvement in their new camps? Or the opposite? Off the top off the head, I think I remember Rashad leaving Jackson-Wink when he fought Jones and he hasn't been the same since?

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009

"Don't over-mythologize it, kid. Knock his ass out."


SBG in Ireland, of course. Kings MMA, which is where Werdum and Dos Anjos train and home to Rafael Cordeiro, and where Jake Ellenberger recently fled to from Glendale Fighting Club (Edmond's house of horrors) and TKO'd Matt Brown in the first round.

Jackson-Winklejohn's shine has come off a little bit of late, but they're still probably the best/one of the best in the business.

Dan Didio fucked around with this message at Aug 5, 2016 around 03:33

Xtanstic
Nov 22, 2007



Oh right Rafael Cordeiro. He's supposed to be a brilliant striking coach right?

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009

"Don't over-mythologize it, kid. Knock his ass out."


Xtanstic posted:

Oh right Rafael Cordeiro. He's supposed to be a brilliant striking coach right?

He is very good, but both of his most impressive/notable fighters just lost their belts via first round stoppages due to strikes.

Xtanstic
Nov 22, 2007



RDA and...?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014



Xtanstic posted:

RDA and...?

werdum

manyak
Jan 26, 2006


Xtanstic posted:

Hey I follow casually the UFC and lurk the monthly threads. I was wondering if someone can post a breakdown of the various gyms and training camps? Off the top of my casual head:

AKA - everyone gets hurt all the time? (cainlegextension.mpeg) Notable fighters: DC, Cain, ????
Tristar - GSP and Firas camp. Rory trains here. That Scottish chick that fought Val Letourneau had a camp there. I'm guessing all the Canadian up and comers like Oliver Aubin Mercier and Elias Theodoru. Arguably one of the best camps alongside Jackson-Wink?
Jackson-Wink - AZ based. Jon Jones, Holly Holm, a bunch of other ones. They fight smart but boring?
Duane Ludwig in Denver - TJ and uh????
Nova Uniao - Aldo, Gadelha, Barao. Have a notorious rep for full out sparring in the chute boxe vein of thinking?
Edmond gym in AZ - a bad coach and a bad camp?
TAM - uhhh chinbutt and shirtless dudes? PvZ?

Am I forgetting any major ones? Is there like a consensus "tier list" of better vs not as good gyms? I'm also curious if there are fighters who have switched camps and have showed significant improvement in their new camps? Or the opposite? Off the top off the head, I think I remember Rashad leaving Jackson-Wink when he fought Jones and he hasn't been the same since?

Its hard to make a tier list really because there are tons of places with good coaches but peoples perceptions of the gyms is overly results-oriented and colored by how different camps advertise themselves (lots of gyms actually make their money more from hobbyists and amateurs who hear about the hype and go to train somewhere, rather than the pros)

For instance AMC Pankration in washington might be one of the best gyms, but Matt Hume likes to focus on a couple guys at a time and doesnt put as much time into promoting his brand so its not considered a powerhouse. But he coaches Mighty Mouse who might be the best coached fighter of all time

TheUltimateDoofus
May 21, 2016


Xtanstic posted:

Am I forgetting any major ones? Is there like a consensus "tier list" of better vs not as good gyms?

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008



Also Frankie eddy and edson Barboza train with Mark Henry and Ricardo almeida which are two different entities entirely but constitute their camp.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

by Lowtax


manyak posted:

Its hard to make a tier list really because there are tons of places with good coaches but peoples perceptions of the gyms is overly results-oriented and colored by how different camps advertise themselves (lots of gyms actually make their money more from hobbyists and amateurs who hear about the hype and go to train somewhere, rather than the pros)

For instance AMC Pankration in washington might be one of the best gyms, but Matt Hume likes to focus on a couple guys at a time and doesnt put as much time into promoting his brand so its not considered a powerhouse. But he coaches Mighty Mouse who might be the best coached fighter of all time

Hume also has this weird thing where Rich Franklin was never more successful than when he was doing camps there, but decided to stay in Ohio and train with Jorge Gurgel, and Tim Boetsch was tons more successful when training with Hume, but decided to stay in Maine and train with Marcus Davis, and Leben had a resurgence at Hume's, and then left to go train in Hawaii.

I dunno whether it's really expensive to live near where AMC is or what; Hume's such a soft-spoken guy I have a hard time picturing him getting into personality conflicts, but it does seem to be a thing that happens.


Also as far as gyms go Almeida's has Frankie, Alvarez and Barboza as well as some midcard dudes, and AKA has a Thailand branch run by Mike Swick that some dudes do camps at or are listed as fighting out of, although nowhere super notable. Alliance MMA where Cruz fights out of has Gustafsson and Davis and a couple other name guys as well. Evolve MMA has a pretty high level instructor team/camp infrastructure, but almost nobody fighting out of there is in the UFC for various reasons. And of course ATT has a million Florida locations and has Lawler and Woodley and Romero and Texeira and Poirier and Brooks and a ton of mid-range guys I'm probably forgetting

vainman
Nov 2, 2012

I find your lack of faith... disturbing

Xtanstic posted:

Hey I follow casually the UFC and lurk the monthly threads. I was wondering if someone can post a breakdown of the various gyms and training camps? Off the top of my casual head:

AKA - everyone gets hurt all the time? (cainlegextension.mpeg) Notable fighters: DC, Cain, ????
Tristar - GSP and Firas camp. Rory trains here. That Scottish chick that fought Val Letourneau had a camp there. I'm guessing all the Canadian up and comers like Oliver Aubin Mercier and Elias Theodoru. Arguably one of the best camps alongside Jackson-Wink?
Jackson-Wink - AZ based. Jon Jones, Holly Holm, a bunch of other ones. They fight smart but boring?
Duane Ludwig in Denver - TJ and uh????
Nova Uniao - Aldo, Gadelha, Barao. Have a notorious rep for full out sparring in the chute boxe vein of thinking?
Edmond gym in AZ - a bad coach and a bad camp?
TAM - uhhh chinbutt and shirtless dudes? PvZ?

Am I forgetting any major ones? Is there like a consensus "tier list" of better vs not as good gyms? I'm also curious if there are fighters who have switched camps and have showed significant improvement in their new camps? Or the opposite? Off the top off the head, I think I remember Rashad leaving Jackson-Wink when he fought Jones and he hasn't been the same since?

Like Manyak said, people get really focused on who has the most belts and forget that all of these camps are great. Nova Uniao does spar hard, but it's not nearly at the level of AKA and their negative reputation is mostly for encouraging crazyy weight cuts maybe (definitely) not worrying about their amateurs as much as they should.

Tristar and Jackson-wink figured out early on that developing gameplans and giving fighters bunks so they could train full time would pay dividends (although this advantage has been overblown, imo. GSP was just that good and could have won the belt without Jackson telling him about nodes). Tristar is run by Firas, who is an exceptionally decorated muay thai coach who posts a lot of great videos on youtube. I would recommend them to anyone learning about the sport.

Edmond is not nearly as bad as he gets painted as. He's a gambling addict and a bit of a fuckup, but he was a legit WBC champ and his pad work seems fine. Ronda has been great at catching people with hooks and drawing them into clinches, and that gets forgotten because a lot of his stars have been losing recently. I think he's a bad coach for a long, often tired man like Travis Browne but that's a different story.

TAM is a great camp that has had a lot of coaching changes lately and so they are in a bit of a swirl, but young guys like Cody Garbrandt have looked great and most negative things you read on the internet about them are probably overblown.

Another camp I'd say you should look at is Evolve MMA, which is run by one of the most crazy good backstories in the sport, Chatri Sityodtong. This is the short version, but fire off a question if you want to know more about a specific camp

vvv: yeah longo owns bones

vainman fucked around with this message at Aug 5, 2016 around 04:43

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008



Also none of us mentioned serra/longo, the real best camp.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014



Marching Powder posted:

Also none of us mentioned serra/longo, the real best camp.

Serra-Longo is less a fight camp and more a five-star fight resort.

a guy who looks disturbingly like an old lesbian but who sounds like Doctor Girlfriend, and a fuckin' veal parm

evobatman
Jul 30, 2006

it means nothing, but says everything!

Blackzilians?

Southpaugh
May 26, 2007

myup, miom... myup, miom... myup, miom... myup, miom...

threeagainstfour posted:

If there were a living, Irish equivalent to El Chapo I don't think you would have seen Conor up there proudly declaring himself the Irish mass murdering gangster drug lord of the UFC.

Anyway, sorry for the derail guys.

Eh, all the living Irish equivalents of El Chapo are in parliament these days. Speaking as a mick though Mexico is an obscure subject in the national press so its no surprise he'd latch onto something dumb via social media. Though, rating UFC guys on social/politic awareness is probably pointless.

threeagainstfour
Jun 27, 2005

"First lesson. Stick 'em with the pointy end."


southpaugh posted:

Eh, all the living Irish equivalents of El Chapo are in parliament these days. Speaking as a mick though Mexico is an obscure subject in the national press so its no surprise he'd latch onto something dumb via social media. Though, rating UFC guys on social/politic awareness is probably pointless.

For sure, I'm still going to watch his fights and enjoy them cause he's a great fighter/entertainer. I just thought this one thing was aggressively stupid.

Shadow225
Jan 2, 2007

Your bones don't break, mine do. But for some reason, you and I react the exact same way to sacks. We hit too fast, we choke. We get some in our head, we drown. However unreal it may seem, we are connected, you and I. We're on the same curve, just on opposite ends. They called me
Mr. Glass.


Also missing ATT, home of Robbie Lawler these days. Don't know their stereotype though

tumor looking batty
Nov 11, 2013



What are the good GSP fights? I'm reading about him and he seems cool

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

He expended too much energy and got tired

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS


tumor looking batty posted:

What are the good GSP fights? I'm reading about him and he seems cool

all 3 hughes fights
Both serra fights
Both bj penn fights
Vs. Jon fitch
Vs. Carlos Condit

Those are the best imo

Note that a lot of gsp fights are absolute blowouts. Still love watching them though because you get to see a real master at work.

Dangersim fucked around with this message at Aug 6, 2016 around 00:09

tumor looking batty
Nov 11, 2013



Dangersim posted:

all 3 hughes fights
Both serra fights
Both bj penn fights
Vs. Jon fitch
Vs. Carlos Condit

Those are the best imo

Note that a lot of gsp fights are absolute blowouts. Still love watching them though because you get to see a real master at work.

Cool ty. Why was he so successful?

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008



tumor looking batty posted:

Cool ty. Why was he so successful?

he developed a devastating jab when only like 6 people in the ufc used one. also after his first loss to huges he decided that he should be the best wrestler in mma and then did that.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

by Lowtax


tumor looking batty posted:

Cool ty. Why was he so successful?

  • Best wrestler in his division
  • If not the best wrestler, at the very least the best at setting up takedowns with strikes and vice versa
  • Plowed the vast majority of his earnings back into his training for years, constantly travelling to train with the best coaches available and hiring world-class athletes in their individual disciplines for training camps
  • Serious OCD resulted in obsessive preparation for every single fight
  • 'ad riddum

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009

"Don't over-mythologize it, kid. Knock his ass out."


tumor looking batty posted:

Cool ty. Why was he so successful?

Only three things excite him; a woman, of course, dinosaurs and the violence of the octagon.

manyak
Jan 26, 2006


fatherdog posted:

  • Best wrestler in his division
  • If not the best wrestler, at the very least the best at setting up takedowns with strikes and vice versa
  • Plowed the vast majority of his earnings back into his training for years, constantly travelling to train with the best coaches available and hiring world-class athletes in their individual disciplines for training camps
  • Serious OCD resulted in obsessive preparation for every single fight
  • 'ad riddum

Even more impressive because 170 has always been so deep with really good wrestlers like Hughes, Sherk, through to koscheck and Fitch, Shields, Hendricks, and despite being Canadian and not having a base in wrestling GSP somehow became the best at neutralizing wrestlers and beating them at their own game. He was just tailor made to beat that style of fighter and it should say a lot that he is the betting favorite over Woodley despite being retired

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008



Dan Didio posted:

Only three things excite him; a woman, of course, dinosaurs and the violence of the octagon.

That is good.

Xtanstic
Nov 22, 2007



tumor looking batty posted:

What are the good GSP fights? I'm reading about him and he seems cool

Watching his entire MMA career in chronological order blew my mind and is how I got hooked on the UFC. It's amazing to see him go from a showy fighter in some random Canadian league to him exerting his will on the division during the later stages of his career.

LobsterMobster
Oct 29, 2009

"I was being quiet and trying to be a good boy but he dialed the right combination to open the throw-down vault and it was on."

"Walter Foxx is ten times brighter than your bulb at the bottom of the tree merry xmas"


Xtanstic posted:

Watching his entire MMA career in chronological order blew my mind and is how I got hooked on the UFC. It's amazing to see him go from a showy fighter in some random Canadian league to him exerting his will on the division during the later stages of his career.

Sadly there doesn't exist any video of the most important moments in his career: all his childhood bullying and throwing that brick in the loving river

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009

"Don't over-mythologize it, kid. Knock his ass out."


LobsterMobster posted:

Sadly there doesn't exist any video of the most important moments in his career: all his childhood bullying and throwing that brick in the loving river

lol, that brick story is amazing because GSP was completely earnest about it.

I also love Rashad Evans impression of GSP before a fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCU5Vq5-dGc

It's insane that arguably the greatest mixed martial artist of all time was basically just a kid that got bullied, was scared all the time, and decided to become the best fighter in the world to compensate for it.

His first fight in the UFC where Joe Rogan slowly slides from constantly talking up Karo Parisyan to just going, "Goerges St. Pierre is a strooooooong man".

Foul Fowl
Sep 12, 2008

Gonzaga Karate is back!




that's josh koscheck, probably the best wrestler at welterweight during that era, getting gsp fully off the floor and still ending up on his back. he was a complete freak of nature.

Foul Fowl
Sep 12, 2008

Gonzaga Karate is back!


the rematch happened about three years later and koscheck did get gsp down, but gsp popped right back up and proceeded to destroy koscheck's career by hitting him with so many lefts that he was visibly uncomfortable taking punches in every fight after.

CarlCX
Dec 14, 2003

this is a job for the Punk

Foul Fowl posted:

the rematch happened about three years later and koscheck did get gsp down, but gsp popped right back up and proceeded to destroy koscheck's career by hitting him with so many lefts that he was visibly uncomfortable taking punches in every fight after.

GSP jabbed Koscheck's eye into such a state of injury that doctors refused to let him fly and the UFC had to charter a car service to take him and Bob Cook from Montreal to Boston for surgery.

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Bundt Cake
Aug 16, 2003
;(

koschecks shot was amazing.

koscheck was exactly the kind of wrestler that made mma insanely boring by being so good at winning via takedowns.

someone should make a highlight vid of koscheck taking guys down because there was some smooth, beautiful stuff there

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