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Echophonic
Sep 16, 2005

ha;lp


Hell Gem

I am very much starting to be convinced that flips doesn't work for some of these translations or that I'm doing something non-obviously wrong. Half the stuff I patch seems to not work, but pre-patched ROMs are just fine.

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Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009

diggle zone


Fuzz posted:

Guys... I... I think I might not like Secret of Mana.


Hear me out on this... the underlying premise and whatnot is all fine, it's just... so grindy. And repetitive. You wander around grinding out levels and weapons/magic skills, then rush through some dungeon, get to a boss, figure out what type of magic it's weak to, and then promptly shove that magic repeatedly up its rear end. Magic never misses, and dodging attacks is quite rudimentary. Spamming is basically the way to win, and it's more about just surviving long enough to poo poo out the spell damage needed for the boss to explode. Oh, and gently caress your magic, it doesn't replenish on level up, just your health. Also there's only one magic restoring item, and you can only carry 4. Also it's a pain to restock and never drops. gently caress you, player, you're gonna run back and forth to towns a lot while grinding for hours.

Story isn't all that special, really... it's interesting though cliche, but you don't really give that much of a poo poo about the 3 main characters, really. Ultimately it's a sidenote to grinding out magic and weapon skills on random mook enemies in a given region, followed by buying the best armor you can find, then repeating that process over and over on a new tileset.


Really debating just skipping finishing it and just going to SD3 and Sword of Mana on GBA, both of which I've heard are kinda more fun to play and have better characters and plotlines to them (I'm one of those STORIES IN VIDYA GAEMS philistines).

Am I a stupid idiot loser and I should stick with it, or is there no big loss to bowing it and moving on to the other games in the series with arguably better storylines and gameplay?

Yeah, the secret is that SoM is not a very good game

Multiplayer is its saving grace; it's decent enough to gently caress around with a friend in. That's about the only thing that makes it tolerable.

titty fat pizza
Jan 1, 2013


Fuzz posted:

Guys... I... I think I might not like Secret of Mana.


Am I a stupid idiot loser and I should stick with it, or is there no big loss to bowing it and moving on to the other games in the series with arguably better storylines and gameplay?



Is this your first time playing Secret of Mana? I can see how it comes off as repetitive and minimal content wise today but I think it is definitely worth a play through.

Back when it first came out I had never seen anything like it and I loved every second of it. I ended up maxing out all weapons with all three characters plus each magic. Iíve done replays over the years on emulators and the Wii but Iím happy as hell to do it all over again with a Super Nintendo controller in my hand.

Spiffster
Oct 6, 2009

I'm good... I Haven't slept for a solid 83 hours, but yeah... I'm good...

Cocked the trigger and downloaded hackchi and loaded up the roms I had. If Iím just using snes games I donít need Hackchi Correct? .smc and .SFC make no difference on it?

Edit: drat just caught that I meant we donít need retroarch

Spiffster fucked around with this message at Oct 21, 2017 around 18:58

Echophonic
Sep 16, 2005

ha;lp


Hell Gem

Spiffster posted:

Cocked the trigger and downloaded hackchi and loaded up the roms I had. If Iím just using snes games I donít need Hackchi Correct? .smc and .SFC make no difference on it?

I think hackchi does conversions for roms, if you're not doing anything that doesn't run well in the stock emulator, you can just sync them.

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the
TG Sanity fund


titty fat pizza posted:

Is this your first time playing Secret of Mana? I can see how it comes off as repetitive and minimal content wise today but I think it is definitely worth a play through.

Back when it first came out I had never seen anything like it and I loved every second of it. I ended up maxing out all weapons with all three characters plus each magic. I’ve done replays over the years on emulators and the Wii but I’m happy as hell to do it all over again with a Super Nintendo controller in my hand.

I played it once for 10 minutes with 2 friends with a multitap, but they were in the desert already and the sand pits and scorpions were annoying so I got bored with no context.

I dunno... watching stuff about SD3, I can already tell I will lose a LOT of hours to it, playing it and then replaying it with a different combo and a different main quest.

Think I'm just gonna switch over and miss out on whatever references three are between the games.

Dejawesp
Jan 7, 2017


Fuzz posted:

Guys... I... I think I might not like Secret of Mana.


Hear me out on this... the underlying premise and whatnot is all fine, it's just... so grindy. And repetitive. You wander around grinding out levels and weapons/magic skills, then rush through some dungeon, get to a boss, figure out what type of magic it's weak to, and then promptly shove that magic repeatedly up its rear end. Magic never misses, and dodging attacks is quite rudimentary. Spamming is basically the way to win, and it's more about just surviving long enough to poo poo out the spell damage needed for the boss to explode. Oh, and gently caress your magic, it doesn't replenish on level up, just your health. Also there's only one magic restoring item, and you can only carry 4. Also it's a pain to restock and never drops. gently caress you, player, you're gonna run back and forth to towns a lot while grinding for hours.

Story isn't all that special, really... it's interesting though cliche, but you don't really give that much of a poo poo about the 3 main characters, really. Ultimately it's a sidenote to grinding out magic and weapon skills on random mook enemies in a given region, followed by buying the best armor you can find, then repeating that process over and over on a new tileset.


Really debating just skipping finishing it and just going to SD3 and Sword of Mana on GBA, both of which I've heard are kinda more fun to play and have better characters and plotlines to them (I'm one of those STORIES IN VIDYA GAEMS philistines).

Am I a stupid idiot loser and I should stick with it, or is there no big loss to bowing it and moving on to the other games in the series with arguably better storylines and gameplay?

You make a lot of good points. I had the same experience with bosses. Spam hostile magic until it dies. I could never defeat a boss through skilled regular fighting because most boss special attacks are spells that can't be dodged.

Republicans
Oct 14, 2003

- More money for us

- Fuck you


Dejawesp posted:

You make a lot of good points. I had the same experience with bosses. Spam hostile magic until it dies. I could never defeat a boss through skilled regular fighting because most boss special attacks are spells that can't be dodged.

I feel like the gigas-type bosses are generally the only ones with magic dangerous enough to just nuke down. Otherwise i prefer using weapons.

Axetrain
Sep 14, 2007

Surprise Motherfucker

Christ the stupid heart tank or whatever its called on the Spark Mandrill stage is hard to get in Megaman X. At least with just the leg upgrade, I was at it for like 10 minutes before I gave up in frustration. Guy's I think I'm bad at Megaman .

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012


We've got this thing licked!



Axetrain posted:

Christ the stupid heart tank or whatever its called on the Spark Mandrill stage is hard to get in Megaman X. At least with just the leg upgrade, I was at it for like 10 minutes before I gave up in frustration. Guy's I think I'm bad at Megaman .

You can use the Boomerang Cutter .

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007



I've never played Megaman X before, so getting that exact wall charge jump right really was a chore. Got it after like 15 minutes, felt like a loving wizard.

Dejawesp
Jan 7, 2017


barbecue at the folks posted:

I've never played Megaman X before, so getting that exact wall charge jump right really was a chore. Got it after like 15 minutes, felt like a loving wizard.

When X came out it felt practically revolutionary when coming from games like Megaman 1 and 2

I never liked the follow up X games though because they seemed to have thrown the megaman formula out the window. No boss power was any clear counter to any other boss (not apparent to me anyway)

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste?
YUMMY!


Soiled Meat

Dejawesp posted:

When X came out it felt practically revolutionary when coming from games like Megaman 1 and 2

I never liked the follow up X games though because they seemed to have thrown the megaman formula out the window. No boss power was any clear counter to any other boss (not apparent to me anyway)

I don't have a whole lot of experience with any X game other than the first, but that one has a super clear weakness order

Chill Penguin -> Spark Mandrill -> Armored Armadillo -> Launch Octopus -> Boomer Kuwanger -> Sting Chameleon -> Storm Eagle -> Flame Mammoth -> Chill Penguin

And the majority of those have a big animation or effect attached to them. Mandrill gets straight up frozen in place, completely wrecking his pattern, Armadillo loses his armor, Chameleon gets cut down from the ceiling, Penguin is engulfed in flames, the homing torpedos follow Kuwanger even when he teleports

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the
TG Sanity fund


Dejawesp posted:

You make a lot of good points. I had the same experience with bosses. Spam hostile magic until it dies. I could never defeat a boss through skilled regular fighting because most boss special attacks are spells that can't be dodged.

Yeah, I gave up and settled for watching an LP off and on.

I started SD3 with Hawk main + Kevin and Lise, and holy poo poo how does anyone think that SoM is the best in the series? Like, you seriously need to get your nostalgia glasses checked, because the prescription is wrong.

Combat is fast and strategic, you have way more control of your party AI, the tech attacks are awesome, and in the first 10 minutes I already gave more of a poo poo about Hawk alone than all of the characters in SoM after playing through, from what I can tell, almost half the game.

The day/night stuff is really cool, particularly how it plays into some of the puzzles and such, and honestly I'm getting some hardcore Daggerfall/Morrowind style vibes from it.


Guys... Seiken Densetsu 3 is really loving good. Like already feasibly competing for top 5 RPGs on the system. Goddamn.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


Fuzz posted:

The day/night stuff is really cool, particularly how it plays into some of the puzzles and such, and honestly I'm getting some hardcore Daggerfall/Morrowind style vibes from it.

Welp, I'm loving sold.

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the
TG Sanity fund


Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Welp, I'm loving sold.

To clarify, you won't be wandering the countryside with a cart, looting entire towns and dungeons and crap, but it has that very open world vibe with lots of towns and politics and different races, and lots of nuance and tension going on.

It could just be that with Hawk's story you basically start by ending up in jail and escaping, like every TES game ever. Not gonna lie, that may be a big part of it, come to think of it...

Dejawesp
Jan 7, 2017


jivjov posted:

I don't have a whole lot of experience with any X game other than the first, but that one has a super clear weakness order

Chill Penguin -> Spark Mandrill -> Armored Armadillo -> Launch Octopus -> Boomer Kuwanger -> Sting Chameleon -> Storm Eagle -> Flame Mammoth -> Chill Penguin

And the majority of those have a big animation or effect attached to them. Mandrill gets straight up frozen in place, completely wrecking his pattern, Armadillo loses his armor, Chameleon gets cut down from the ceiling, Penguin is engulfed in flames, the homing torpedos follow Kuwanger even when he teleports

Yes it's all good. I mean X2 and so on. The powers are just sort of useful and the fights are in reality about learning attack patterns and how to avoid those.

I think with X I started with Flame Mammoth.

For the first Megaman game I went

Fire > Bomb > Guts > Scissors > Lightning > Ice

because if you went to the fire boss with full health you could just face tank him and shot at him and he would die first. I heard some people started with iceman but I thought he was pretty hard without lightning.

Megaman 2 had this odd thing where the saw blades boss was stupid easy and saw blades countered something like 3-4 bosses.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

The real problem with further x games is they never again included the stage changes that x1 had. Beating storm eagle first made his ship crash into spark mandrill's stage, launch octopus first flooded sting chameleon's stage, chill penguin froze flame mammoth's stage, etc

It ruled and it sucks they never did it again

Tengames
Oct 29, 2008



Republicans posted:

I feel like the gigas-type bosses are generally the only ones with magic dangerous enough to just nuke down. Otherwise i prefer using weapons.

yeah seriously i don't know why everyone defaults to spamming magic, I never give a single gently caress about leveling any spell the entire game, weapon charge attacks are sufficient enough. The sole exception being the wall boss, where them being paused by the spell's attack animation helps buy some time iirc.


SD3 is still better however.

Dejawesp
Jan 7, 2017


Is the girls support magic any good in SOM?

I only really use the healing spell. She has damage improving and damage reduction spells but they cost a lot of mana and I wonder if I get that back in a fight. Her mana being pretty much the time limit on any given boss fight,

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011




Snuffman posted:

The Gamegrumps just did a playthrough and apparently there's a part on stage 3 where you can farm enemies for a bunch of lives?

They never got to stage 3.

I remember that, just put a rubber band over the fire button and do something else for 20mins.

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the
TG Sanity fund


Also for those jumping into SD3, this page has a good summary of the basics:

https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Seike..._The_Mana_Fairy

Don't actually use the rest, though, because what the gently caress, figure that poo poo out yourself.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012



Dejawesp posted:

Is the girls support magic any good in SOM?

I only really use the healing spell. She has damage improving and damage reduction spells but they cost a lot of mana and I wonder if I get that back in a fight. Her mana being pretty much the time limit on any given boss fight,

The buff spell that Luna has is straight up broken and using it all the time is a good way to get its so your attacks just do the damage limit with no charge towards the end of the game.

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

Time
 to die.




Wasn't there some command line to disable a thing in the built emulator to enable transparency? My gf loves Kirby and playing Dream Land 3 the forest levels are almost impossible since the trees aren't transparent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxL-878TFfM#t=382s

wizard on a water slide
Aug 20, 2005

That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives.


Dejawesp posted:

Is the girls support magic any good in SOM?

I only really use the healing spell. She has damage improving and damage reduction spells but they cost a lot of mana and I wonder if I get that back in a fight. Her mana being pretty much the time limit on any given boss fight,

Moon Energy (Luna, makes your attacks crit) is really good, as are some of the Saber spells; Stone Saber will make your regular attacks instakill normal enemies like half the time, Flame Saber will engulf them which both does bonus damage and stuns them, and Moon Saber makes all your attacks drain HP. All the Sabers will make you do more damage to enemies weak to that element, which is handy on bosses. Lucid Barrier (Lumina) basically makes you invincible to physical attacks briefly which is what most of the damage in the game is. To make buffs last long enough, single-cast them on the boy (or whoever you're controlling) instead of multi-casting them.

The problem with the girl's buff spells - and Lucent Beam, her one good attack spell - isn't that they aren't useful, which they are, it's that every 2 MP you spend on one of them costs you a Cure.

Dejawesp
Jan 7, 2017


wizard on a water slide posted:

Moon Energy (Luna, makes your attacks crit) is really good, as are some of the Saber spells; Stone Saber will make your regular attacks instakill normal enemies like half the time, Flame Saber will engulf them which both does bonus damage and stuns them, and Moon Saber makes all your attacks drain HP. All the Sabers will make you do more damage to enemies weak to that element, which is handy on bosses. Lucid Barrier (Lumina) basically makes you invincible to physical attacks briefly which is what most of the damage in the game is. To make buffs last long enough, single-cast them on the boy (or whoever you're controlling) instead of multi-casting them.

The problem with the girl's buff spells - and Lucent Beam, her one good attack spell - isn't that they aren't useful, which they are, it's that every 2 MP you spend on one of them costs you a Cure.

Good advice. I was going to ask if saber spells made you do more damage against bosses weak to that element.

Yes the big issue is the mana cost. 2 mana is basically 75% of full hp for the whole team so if a buff reduces all damage taken by 10% for 20 seconds at the same cost then I don't feel like it's worth it

SeANMcBAY
Jun 28, 2006

Look on the bright side.

https://twitter.com/clydemandelin/s...787359066169345
Never heard of this game but it sounds interesting.

Echophonic
Sep 16, 2005

ha;lp


Hell Gem

Looks like it requires bsnes, unless Retroarch supports some sort of xml addition it needs.

On the subject of fan translations, I started up Treasure of the Rudras. T=he default names for the various arcs are Sion, Riza, and some bullshit wizard name. I started with Sion and the characters I have met so far are Huey, Foxy, and Doug. Sion and loving Doug, friends forever.

Sand Dan
May 15, 2017


Straight White Shark posted:

Yeah, the secret is that SoM is not a very good game

Multiplayer is its saving grace; it's decent enough to gently caress around with a friend in. That's about the only thing that makes it tolerable.

The saving grace is the super melancholy music when there really wasn't much like it at the time, but yeah otherwise I agree.

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Veib
Dec 10, 2007



SeANMcBAY posted:

https://twitter.com/clydemandelin/s...787359066169345
Never heard of this game but it sounds interesting.

Holy poo poo. I first heard about the game when DeJap were starting their since abandoned translation project in 2001. I'm genuinely excited to finally play it!

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