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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011



I got to say a poster admitting they hated a character for being a women is refreshingly honest.

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Blind Melon
Jan 3, 2006
I like fire, you can have some too.

I don't think you read gud.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011



A true you did say it was only a third, which is progress.

Blind Melon
Jan 3, 2006
I like fire, you can have some too.

Yup, you don't read good.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



Blind Melon posted:

This right here is a third of the reason I dislike Skyler.

The other two thirds are half heatedly embracing her dark side when it is convenient and beneficial for her, and being a poorly written antagonist with no real role to play. Walt did what evil he did for selfish reasons just like Skyler did what evil she did for her.


Going after Jesse instead of having a conversation with Walt about his marijuana use is simultaneously controlling and pathetic.

Wasn't the marijuana thing in one of the first 3 episodes? I was considering that her last truly lovely moment.

Also I get you didn't actually mean a third of the reason you hated Skyler is for misogynistic reasons but honestly that is exactly how that first sentence reads. You might wanna elaborate instead of just being insulting.

SHOAH NUFF
Nov 14, 2005

Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling


I'm rewatching the show for the first time, and man, I realized that I missed about 3 episodes in the middle of Season 3 the first time through.

random thoughts:

- I totally had forgotten that the Aztec steamrolling the drug dealers and the Gale killing were in back to back episodes. I thought going into the end of S3 that the final episode was the Aztec scene, and that S4 ended with Gale dying, there was a whole season in between. Nope!

- the first punch Hank hits Jesse with sends him flying like 2 feet back, gently caress

- It was kinda nice for the cousins to leave their Mercedes to the farmer family

- Gus seems a lot more chill and decent on a rewatch

Blind Melon
Jan 3, 2006
I like fire, you can have some too.

Escobarbarian posted:

Wasn't the marijuana thing in one of the first 3 episodes? I was considering that her last truly lovely moment.

Scamming Bogden out of the car wash. Not taking the advice of her lawyer. Pushing Walt to kill Jesse. Siding with Walt against Hank and Marie because she thought he was going to win and she was going to get to keep the blood money.

quote:

Also I get you didn't actually mean a third of the reason you hated Skyler is for misogynistic reasons but honestly that is exactly how that first sentence reads. You might wanna elaborate instead of just being insulting.

For the benefit of the condescending and deliberately obtuse?

COMPAGNIE TOMMY
Jan 24, 2016

If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which grain will grow and which will not...


Skyler isn't bad because she's a woman

Skyler is bad because she's a bitch

E: tell me you want to be married to this character. Mhm.

Strawman
Feb 9, 2008

Tortuga means turtle, and that's me. I take my time but I always win.


Harold Stassen posted:

Skyler isn't bad because she's a woman

Skyler is bad because she's a bitch

E: tell me you want to be married to this character. Mhm.

Why, did she surprise sex her husband?

COMPAGNIE TOMMY
Jan 24, 2016

If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which grain will grow and which will not...


Strawman posted:

Why, did she surprise sex her husband?

Awesome post/username combo

COMPAGNIE TOMMY
Jan 24, 2016

If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which grain will grow and which will not...


And do you take this woman whom you know every bad thing they will do to be your paranoid hateful controller in an obviously loveless marriage?

(brain falls out) I do!

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



Blind Melon posted:

Scamming Bogden out of the car wash. Not taking the advice of her lawyer. Pushing Walt to kill Jesse. Siding with Walt against Hank and Marie because she thought he was going to win and she was going to get to keep the blood money.


For the benefit of the condescending and deliberately obtuse?

I meant like typical "naggy lovely female character" bad. I don't think you quite understand what people mean when they're talking about Skyler hate. Nobody's saying she was a totally morally right character.

And I mean....dude, you know it is entirely possible for you to phrase something badly, right? I seriously have no idea what you could possibly have meant, reading the actual words you wrote, other than "a third of my hatred for Skyler is based on misogyny". That's literally, objectively what you wrote.

Is this a troll? Am I being trolled?

Death Bot
Mar 4, 2007

Binary killing machines, turning 1 into 0 since 0011000100111001 0011011100110110

Welcome back thread

COMPAGNIE TOMMY
Jan 24, 2016

If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which grain will grow and which will not...


I'd much rather fixate on the bullshit of idiots than this awesome TV show

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



gently caress it this is why I never read the main threads in the first place

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011



I was being condescending but not obtuse you just write really poorly. Also it turns your post from interesting into a bog standard breaking bad post. Which is sad.

COMPAGNIE TOMMY
Jan 24, 2016

If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which grain will grow and which will not...


Why explore character development and dramatic nuance when I can just tell people LEARN TO POST in 500 words or more

Blind Melon
Jan 3, 2006
I like fire, you can have some too.

Escobarbarian posted:

And I mean....dude, you know it is entirely possible for you to phrase something badly, right? I seriously have no idea what you could possibly have meant, reading the actual words you wrote, other than "a third of my hatred for Skyler is based on misogyny". That's literally, objectively what you wrote.

It's the argument that any dislike of Skyler comes from misogyny. I literally don't understand how you could not have even considered that interpretation.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



Because.....you said why *I* dislike Skyler. As in, why you personally dislike her. Not why she is widely disliked. And then the rest of your post is about why you personally dislike her too. Have you gone back and read your original post since you made it?

Blind Melon
Jan 3, 2006
I like fire, you can have some too.

As irrational as it is, part of the reason I dislike Skyler is because of that stupid argument. Hence quoting it and saying this is part of the reason I dislike Skyler.

Yes, I could have been much more clear, but I legitimately find it very hard to believe that this isn't something you could have realized on your own.

Blind Melon fucked around with this message at Jul 30, 2016 around 04:44

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011



Its weird to hate a character because a lot of people irrationally hate her. I don't think I have ever seen that. It's usually the opposite.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



Yeah I didn't consider that because it doesn't make any sense whatsoever

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun

Blind Melon posted:

As irrational as it is, part of the reason I dislike Skyler is because of that stupid argument. Hence quoting it and saying this is part of the reason I dislike Skyler.

Yes, I could have been much more clear, but I legitimately find it very hard to believe that this isn't something you could have realized on your own.

You'd've been better off just saying you hate Skyler because you're a misogynist. At least that makes sense. Jesus

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!

I disliked Skyler because most of the time she was on screen in the first season or two, I wanted to punch her in the face.

She has an Etsy store, she fancies herself a short story author, she displays zero intrigue as she uses "writing research" as an excuse to get information out of Marie, she autistically and loudly embarrasses Walt, Jr. in public, in front of peers, over the fit of the crotch in pants she's forcing him to buy, cooks turkey bacon for a man's birthday, "the Mastercard is the one we DON'T use!" WALTER IS SMOKING POT!!!!, and the list goes on with examples of her being generally controlling and thoughtless and entitled.

So, yeah, sorry, I call people who pull that poo poo cunts, sometimes.

On the flip side, of course, that gives her character a lot of room to grow, and over the course of the series that happens. She's clueless because she doesn't have to be awake or aware of anything, but as soon as poo poo gets real, she's there. I like the evolution of her character. She was just painful as gently caress for the first half or so.

Annabel Pee
Dec 29, 2008


Having an Etsy store, what a stinkyhole!

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



And wanting to be a writer? Fuckin unforgivable. I would make fun of the turkey bacon one but I assume that's a joke

Blind Melon
Jan 3, 2006
I like fire, you can have some too.

Escobarbarian posted:

Yeah I didn't consider that because it doesn't make any sense whatsoever

CharlestheHammer posted:

Its weird to hate a character because a lot of people irrationally hate her. I don't think I have ever seen that. It's usually the opposite.

You can understand how people irrationally hating Skyler would make someone like her more, but you can't understand that irrationally defending her might make someone like her less?

Death Bot
Mar 4, 2007

Binary killing machines, turning 1 into 0 since 0011000100111001 0011011100110110

you did a bad unclear post and your response to a bunch of people being confused is to claim the high ground.

very goon of you.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012



Propaganda Machine posted:

"the Mastercard is the one we DON'T use!"

This is not the first time I've heard this as fuel for hating her, and I still don't get it.

They are poor people and either their other card gets better rewards or the Mastercard is for emergencies only or something. Walt was being an idiot.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011



Blind Melon posted:

You can understand how people irrationally hating Skyler would make someone like her more, but you can't understand that irrationally defending her might make someone like her less?

Legit criticism are so few and far between I don't think it could really.

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!

oh jay posted:

This is not the first time I've heard this as fuel for hating her, and I still don't get it.

They are poor people and either their other card gets better rewards or the Mastercard is for emergencies only or something. Walt was being an idiot.

You're right, as are the posters above you, but again, the point of all of it is to allow her character to grow from naggy housewife to Mrs. Scarface. Even if those annoyances don't make her a terrible person worthy of being called a stinkyhole, we're getting Walt's perspective of going from a star chemist to a milquetoast high school teacher who goes home to more being yelled at. In the beginning, it justifies his conscious heel-turn.

She annoyed me because she's meant to seem annoying.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011



I thought the point was to show how they were struggling financially to really drive home the need money angle. Because Breaking bad ain't subtle.

She didn't come out annoying at all in that instance.

King of Foolians
Mar 16, 2006
Long live the King!

Propaganda Machine posted:

You're right, as are the posters above you, but again, the point of all of it is to allow her character to grow from naggy housewife to Mrs. Scarface. Even if those annoyances don't make her a terrible person worthy of being called a stinkyhole, we're getting Walt's perspective of going from a star chemist to a milquetoast high school teacher who goes home to more being yelled at. In the beginning, it justifies his conscious heel-turn.

She annoyed me because she's meant to seem annoying.

I think you are correct. The whole point of the first part of the show is demonstrating that Walt is unsuccessful/unfulfilled with his life. She is definitely not meant to be portrayed as a perfect June Cleaver housewife. I think a lot of the ire that the character of Skylar receives also has to do with the "resting bitch face" that people claim Anna Gunn has.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



Nobody's saying she's meant to be a perfect housewife, though?

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

As much as I'd hate this thread to turn into the "I hate Skyler" show, I have to admit that I disliked her a lot on my first watch but on the second viewing she seemed a lot more sympathetic to me. She's as morally ambiguous and as much of a victim as anyone other character so I'm not sure why she gets singled out for so much hatred.

Ted, Hank, Marie, Gus, Jessie, Skyler, Mike, Walt...they're all likable in some ways and dislikable in others. Walt Jr. seems like the moral center/compass of the show to me. The one true innocent.

Just about every character is painted in shades of grey for the most part and I think that was more or less the point of the show: "How low will you go and where do you draw the line?" Where is the line drawn between practicality, survival and morality? How much is enough? What's the difference between need and greed?

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011



I do like how much hate she gets for early characterization when Hank was a 100% worse.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



BiggerBoat posted:

She's as morally ambiguous and as much of a victim as anyone other character so I'm not sure why she gets singled out for so much hatred.

Because she's the main character's 'nagging wife', and many people aren't used to the idea that the lead character in a show might not be the protagonist, so they root for Walt up until he literally poisons a child and get mad at that stupid bitch standing in his way.

syscall girl
Nov 6, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


Fun Shoe

Escobarbarian posted:

Because she's the main character's 'nagging wife', and many people aren't used to the idea that the lead character in a show might not be the protagonist, so they root for Walt up until he literally poisons a child and get mad at that stupid bitch standing in his way.

Yeah it's this.

The old threads were so toxic.

It's good that we've moved on.

Spellman
May 31, 2011



The early episodes just kind of show her as a controlling/wearing-the-pants in the family wife and it's presumably been going on for the entirety of the marriage. Some people like that in a partner. Walt will contently eat veggie bacon on his 50th birthday.

Some people can live with someone else calling all the shots. The talking pillow scene was the biggest exposition of how complacent he's been about it. The whole scene wasn't meant as a polite dialog between Skyler and Walt's opinions on what to do, it was Skyler getting the family together to make Walt choose cancer treatment against his judgement. And then Walt eventually gets the chance to talk and he basically spells out for you how his life had been up to that point. It likely wasn't the first time that a decision was made for Walt under the guise of giving him a choice. It doesn't feel honest.

Most people don't really get that dynamic in a relationship. Those characteristics of Skyler aren't exactly what everyone is clamoring for in a person, and many people would find those qualities annoying if they witnessed them happening in someone else's relationship. They're not inherently bad, but they're really annoying if you're not compatible with that lifestyle.

She'll quietly go return a tiara she receives as a gift and when she's reprimanded for it being stolen, she'll put on an act that she's going in to labor, and now she has to confront her situation andů she puts herself in a lot of uncomfortable confrontations that if she had some chill, would've never happened. That she ended up exposing someone else's lie in the end doesn't really change that the situation would've caused no strain in their family had she not attempted to confront it.

Walt lies in spite of his family for himself, but his actions aren't supposed to be at direct odds with them. Walt gets a pass with viewers because people like that more, not because it's right or wrong.

Skyler was consistently written well, and played it well, but she wasn't written to be likable. If you can relate to her or sympathize with her motivations, that's cool, she was written like a real person. But I think not understanding why people dislike Skyler is a huge misunderstanding of what this show was going for. The Q was always going to be how long can you dislike Skyler in spite of Walt's criminal and immoral activity.

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Blind Melon
Jan 3, 2006
I like fire, you can have some too.

BiggerBoat posted:

Ted, Hank, Marie, Gus, Jessie, Skyler, Mike, Walt...they're all likable in some ways and dislikable in others. Walt Jr. seems like the moral center/compass of the show to me. The one true innocent.

After Marie's klepto spree she never really does anything unlikable. Hank is a pretty terrible person, but at least he has the benefit of being a credible antagonist to Walt. You know from the beginning that when Hank finds out Walt is cooking meth the poo poo is going to hit the fan, and it absolutely does.

Walt Jr is the best. Him and maybe Gomie, who dies unceremoniously offscreen.

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