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Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get, the more I feel like laughing.

Fallen Rib

Pron on VHS posted:

- Gus seems a lot more chill and decent on a rewatch

Gus always seemed extremely chill and reasonable, if brutal and pragmatic about his drug empire. I can't remember though, did Gus have a family? IIRC, when he invited Walt to dinner there were other people in Gus's house (or maybe when Walt stopped by once).

Also 90% of Skyler criticism is lowkey misogyny. Yeah, she's controlling and slightly irrational in the first two seasons, but she's dealing with a horrible situation. How can you rationalize all the horrible, selfish poo poo Walt does as understandable, but Skyler is a bitch or a stinkyhole for attempting to protect and preserve her family? C'mon man.

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Mameluke
Aug 2, 2013
some dirty-sneaker-inbred-out of the woods-Pabst beer pussy methhead-junkie running all around town telling EVERYONE EVERYTHING ABOUT ELON MUSK


There were photos of what looked like a family for Gus when Walt went over for dinner, but they were never brought up in dialogue. That was also before we learned Gus was partly motivated by the cartel's murder of his Jesse/lover.

ElectricSheep
Jan 14, 2006

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


Mameluke posted:

There were photos of what looked like a family for Gus when Walt went over for dinner, but they were never brought up in dialogue. That was also before we learned Gus was partly motivated by the cartel's murder of his Jesse/lover.

In hindsight, I think that Gus was trying to appeal to Walt by presenting himself as a family man with the photos and toys strewn about in a haphazard-yet-orderly manner, which only led me to believe even more than Gus invented them for the sake of connecting with Walt. Not only was his "family" never brought up in dialogue, they were never mentioned by any third party like the media or law enforcement, and Gus had a lot of clout with them as a local philanthropist; you'd think if they existed, we'd have heard about them even if they had no narrative significance.

That's a fairly interesting dichotomy presented in that scene, then: Gus, the collected and calm drug lord who seems to put tremendous care into creating an imaginary family environment, breaking bread (haha) with Walt, a chaotic egotist increasingly given to impulsive and dangerous behavior who puts his family in harm's way.

A deal with the devil is taking place in that scene, but the audience makes a mistake as to who the devil is the first time around.

yeah I eat ass
Mar 14, 2005

only people who enjoy my posting can replace this avatar

ElectricSheep posted:

Not only was his "family" never brought up

It kind of was - when he describes the stew he's making he mentions he can never make it because the kids won't eat it.

SHOAH NUFF
Nov 14, 2005

Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling


I thought it was funny how Gus cooked the exact same meal for both Walt and Jesse when he invited each to his place. Ive been cooking the same meal for years for the first cooking for ya girl date

Boywhiz88
Sep 11, 2005

floating 26" off da ground. BURR!

One of the things I'll never get over is how well shot the entire series is. No weird inconsistencies like the wipe-zoom in The Sopranos or the slow motion shot in The Wire. Especially being relatively low budget and some of the shots they got.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

Boywhiz88 posted:

One of the things I'll never get over is how well shot the entire series is. No weird inconsistencies like the wipe-zoom in The Sopranos or the slow motion shot in The Wire. Especially being relatively low budget and some of the shots they got.

That's a pretty great point. Overall the level of professionalism, from the scripts to the acting to the direction, are at a really high level for just a regular cable TV show.

I finished Better Call Saul Season 1. Is S2 up anywhere? It's not on Netflix and I don't have cable.

On the topic of sympathetic characters and such, Better Call Saul does a remarkable job making a guy who we all know winds up as a complete scumbag remarkably relatable. I think the common theme with both of these shows is moral ambiguity; examining the specific point that people stop being victims and start being creeps. It's almost like as soon as a regular guy )or gal) starts pushing back and asserting themselves, they almost HAVE to compromise their ideals and their standards.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



Yo, the last page was kind of terrible with shitposts and bickering. Shape up.


BiggerBoat posted:

That's a pretty great point. Overall the level of professionalism, from the scripts to the acting to the direction, are at a really high level for just a regular cable TV show.

I finished Better Call Saul Season 1. Is S2 up anywhere? It's not on Netflix and I don't have cable.

On the topic of sympathetic characters and such, Better Call Saul does a remarkable job making a guy who we all know winds up as a complete scumbag remarkably relatable. I think the common theme with both of these shows is moral ambiguity; examining the specific point that people stop being victims and start being creeps. It's almost like as soon as a regular guy )or gal) starts pushing back and asserting themselves, they almost HAVE to compromise their ideals and their standards.


Season 2 of BCS for some reason isn't going up until around when season 3 is scheduled to start. As a whole BCS is interesting because pretty much every move Jimmy makes seems reasonable on it's own (with a couple of BIG exceptions in S2) but other people's actions are what lead him toward becoming Saul. While on BB Walt is pretty much the sole architect of his fall. He had multiple chances to stop and just walk away but his control freak nature pushes him to further and further extremes.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

muscles like this? posted:

Yo, the last page was kind of terrible with shitposts and bickering. Shape up.



Season 2 of BCS for some reason isn't going up until around when season 3 is scheduled to start. As a whole BCS is interesting because pretty much every move Jimmy makes seems reasonable on it's own (with a couple of BIG exceptions in S2) but other people's actions are what lead him toward becoming Saul. While on BB Walt is pretty much the sole architect of his fall. He had multiple chances to stop and just walk away but his control freak nature pushes him to further and further extremes.

With both Walt and Saul, it seems like a case of escalation born of desperation. They both seem to get in over their heads and then convince themselves to do "just this ONE more morally questionable act" and then everything will be OK. In Walt's case, he's just completely in over his head aside from the science and for every act he takes two more problems arise.

With Saul, you can see he's pretty much just been blackballed (primarily by his brother it turns out) and no one thinks he's a "real" lawyer anyway because of where he got his degree, but he never seemed "in over his head" with law. Season one actually shows he's pretty competent.

Yestermoment
Jul 27, 2007



BiggerBoat posted:

With both Walt and Saul, it seems like a case of escalation born of desperation. They both seem to get in over their heads and then convince themselves to do "just this ONE more morally questionable act" and then everything will be OK. In Walt's case, he's just completely in over his head aside from the science and for every act he takes two more problems arise.

With Saul, you can see he's pretty much just been blackballed (primarily by his brother it turns out) and no one thinks he's a "real" lawyer anyway because of where he got his degree, but he never seemed "in over his head" with law. Season one actually shows he's pretty competent.

I could understand the Skylar hate briefly, but Chuck is a character I outright hate. Which is a shame, because I love Adrian Van Voorhees.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax


BiggerBoat posted:

With both Walt and Saul, it seems like a case of escalation born of desperation. They both seem to get in over their heads and then convince themselves to do "just this ONE more morally questionable act" and then everything will be OK. In Walt's case, he's just completely in over his head aside from the science and for every act he takes two more problems arise.

With Saul, you can see he's pretty much just been blackballed (primarily by his brother it turns out) and no one thinks he's a "real" lawyer anyway because of where he got his degree, but he never seemed "in over his head" with law. Season one actually shows he's pretty competent.

The pacing of BCS is super weird because the ending of season one feels like a completely organic point for Jimmy to leave his old life and start his downward slide into Saul...and then the first thing they do in season two is retcon the ending the season one so he can eventually go back to his old life and rehash the lessons he learned in season 1. The ending of season 2 was actually a regression because he still hasn't reached the point where he was at the end of season 1 where he had accepted who he was and was leaving everyone behind to do his own thing. And the show itself seems to be aware of it somewhat since Mike got almost as much screentime as Saul this season even when their two stories had nothing to do with each other and weren't overlapping.

It's still a really good and entertaining show but it feels like it's becoming a victim of its own success where since they don't have to worry about getting renewed they don't feel any pressure to keep things moving.

PoizenJam
Dec 2, 2006

Poi, Zen, Jam


I disagree that the writers are being lazy/feeling no pressure to keep things moving. The pacing is perfectly suited to a House of Cards style release cycle, as it's a much slower burn than Breaking Bad. I think their approach to the show just changed when it became apparent the show would last more than a season; but you're right in that they handled the retcon rather clumsily.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

What do you think are some of the best examples of the great acting in this show?

It's hard to pick one with Bryan Cranston, but for Aaron Paul the scene that stands out the most to me is the one where he's beaten up in the hospital and Walt comes to see him for an offer, and Jesse just flips his poo poo and tells him off.

Strawman
Feb 9, 2008

Tortuga means turtle, and that's me. I take my time but I always win.


sticklefifer posted:

What do you think are some of the best examples of the great acting in this show?

It's hard to pick one with Bryan Cranston, but for Aaron Paul the scene that stands out the most to me is the one where he's beaten up in the hospital and Walt comes to see him for an offer, and Jesse just flips his poo poo and tells him off.

I think the scene where Walt plants the ricin in the roomba and Jesse just breaks down is Aaron Paul's best.

Yestermoment
Jul 27, 2007



sticklefifer posted:

What do you think are some of the best examples of the great acting in this show?

It's hard to pick one with Bryan Cranston, but for Aaron Paul the scene that stands out the most to me is the one where he's beaten up in the hospital and Walt comes to see him for an offer, and Jesse just flips his poo poo and tells him off.

It might not be the BEST, but their last interaction was honestly my favorite and belongs up there. I remember that being so incredibly tense on the first watch.

Spellman
May 31, 2011



Walt and Jesse high-fiving in the RV when they cook a half-a-million worth of meth each, and the proceeding downfall when the RV refuses to start. The exhaustion between the two of them and the relief when both of them are getting home alive is one of my favorites.

Secular Humanist
Mar 1, 2016

by Smythe


Jesse's "Know why I'm here? To sell ya meth!" scene at the rehab group meeting was amazingly good.

I can say the only bad acting I remember from BB was the prostitute lady Wendy. Makeup team did a great job but her acting was so stiff.

Also the absolutely cartoonish treatment of generic "drug addicts" gets kind of eyerolly sometimes. Like that guy who Jesse "tricks" into digging a hole in his front yard was.... I dunno, anyone know any actual meth heads? Does it actually make people that insane?

syscall girl
Nov 6, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


Fun Shoe

Secular Humanist posted:

Jesse's "Know why I'm here? To sell ya meth!" scene at the rehab group meeting was amazingly good.

I can say the only bad acting I remember from BB was the prostitute lady Wendy. Makeup team did a great job but her acting was so stiff.

Also the absolutely cartoonish treatment of generic "drug addicts" gets kind of eyerolly sometimes. Like that guy who Jesse "tricks" into digging a hole in his front yard was.... I dunno, anyone know any actual meth heads? Does it actually make people that insane?

The sleep deprivation alone can cause psychosis. The way it fucks with your dopamine system doesn't help either.

Also if e person experiencing the psychosis is young and/or dumb they may not know to expect hallucinations, paranoia etc.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

sticklefifer posted:

What do you think are some of the best examples of the great acting in this show?

Hank, Saul, Gus, Skyler, Marie, Jessie, Mike, Walt Jr., Gale, Hank's partner (Steve?)...

I think they're all great. I have a pet peeve about bad actors and when I see it, it tends to take me right out of the movie/show I'm watching. I don't think that ever happened once on BB. I can't recall one time where I left a scene because some actor sucked.

scuba school sucks
Aug 30, 2012

The brilliance of my posting illuminates the forums like a jar of shining gold when all around is dark

Secular Humanist posted:

Also the absolutely cartoonish treatment of generic "drug addicts" gets kind of eyerolly sometimes. Like that guy who Jesse "tricks" into digging a hole in his front yard was.... I dunno, anyone know any actual meth heads? Does it actually make people that insane?

That's a GREAT scene. When I saw that scene for the first time, I thought, this isn't just a good story, it's a true story. That bit and the scene in Spooge and Skank's house, man, that stuff is true even if it's fictional.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

Secular Humanist posted:

I can say the only bad acting I remember from BB was the prostitute lady Wendy. Makeup team did a great job but her acting was so stiff.

Also the absolutely cartoonish treatment of generic "drug addicts" gets kind of eyerolly sometimes. Like that guy who Jesse "tricks" into digging a hole in his front yard was.... I dunno, anyone know any actual meth heads? Does it actually make people that insane?

No, that's about right. As a recovering drug addict myself those scenes rang absolutely true.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax


sticklefifer posted:

What do you think are some of the best examples of the great acting in this show?





Secular Humanist posted:

I can say the only bad acting I remember from BB was the prostitute lady Wendy. Makeup team did a great job but her acting was so stiff.

Per the Breaking Bad Insider podcast she isn't actually an actor, she's a local marathon runner they hired because she was so naturally skinny that she looked the part.

Secular Humanist
Mar 1, 2016

by Smythe


Guy Mann posted:

Per the Breaking Bad Insider podcast she isn't actually an actor, she's a local marathon runner they hired because she was so naturally skinny that she looked the part.

Ah ok that explains a lot about her delivery of lines. And it's honestly not that bad it's just very noticeable amidst all the otherwise amazing acting.

Man I have to say that as good of an actor as Cranston is, it's really hard for me to watch him in anything post-BB. His roles prior to BB I can still get into because he physically looked quite a bit younger on Malcolm and Seinfeld but I saw that Trumbo movie, and I don't know what it was but something about him in that irked the poo poo out of me, and I think it's just because I'm now just wired to see him as Walt. Kind of a testament to the show really, it's so good it was able to typecast an already well established actor. He's just Walt now.

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007


Secular Humanist posted:

Man I have to say that as good of an actor as Cranston is, it's really hard for me to watch him in anything post-BB. His roles prior to BB I can still get into because he physically looked quite a bit younger on Malcolm and Seinfeld but I saw that Trumbo movie, and I don't know what it was but something about him in that irked the poo poo out of me, and I think it's just because I'm now just wired to see him as Walt. Kind of a testament to the show really, it's so good it was able to typecast an already well established actor. He's just Walt now.

If you have HBO, you should check out All The Way. He disappears into the role of LBJ.

COMPAGNIE TOMMY
Jan 24, 2016

If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which grain will grow and which will not...


When I talk about the show I always call Walt Hal

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax


Bryan Cranston is going to be playing Zordon in the Power Rangers movie.

torgo
Aug 12, 2003




Fun Shoe

Harold Stassen posted:

When I talk about the show I always call Walt Hal

I know one of the late night shows did the Malcolm in the Middle ending for Breaking Bad(which isn't up on youtube in any decent quality anymore), but I always wanted the showrunners to invite Jane Kaczmarek to secretly show up in some random scene and start screaming at "Hal". Bryan Cranston's reaction would be great, be it an ad-libbed Hal explanation of why he's cooking meth or just ten minutes of him cracking up laughing.

syscall girl
Nov 6, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


Fun Shoe

Walt, Hal and LBJ have something in common. They let it all hang out.

rydiafan
Mar 17, 2009

EEEEEENT
OOOOORT
EEEEEENT
OOOOORT


Guy Mann posted:

Bryan Cranston is going to be playing Zordon in the Power Rangers movie.

Is anyone else from the original television show coming back, or just him?

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


I'll chop off my left nut if Jason David Frank doesn't make a cameo. Dude loves Power Rangers almost as much as Jesus and MMA.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

BiggerBoat posted:

Hank, Saul, Gus, Skyler, Marie, Jessie, Mike, Walt Jr., Gale, Hank's partner (Steve?)...

I think they're all great. I have a pet peeve about bad actors and when I see it, it tends to take me right out of the movie/show I'm watching. I don't think that ever happened once on BB. I can't recall one time where I left a scene because some actor sucked.

I was looking for specific examples, which is why I posted one in the same post you quoted.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Secular Humanist posted:

Ah ok that explains a lot about her delivery of lines. And it's honestly not that bad it's just very noticeable amidst all the otherwise amazing acting.

Man I have to say that as good of an actor as Cranston is, it's really hard for me to watch him in anything post-BB. His roles prior to BB I can still get into because he physically looked quite a bit younger on Malcolm and Seinfeld but I saw that Trumbo movie, and I don't know what it was but something about him in that irked the poo poo out of me, and I think it's just because I'm now just wired to see him as Walt. Kind of a testament to the show really, it's so good it was able to typecast an already well established actor. He's just Walt now.

It's weird because when Breaking Bad first started I didn't think I'd ever be able to see him as anything other than Hal (a character I loving loved) and he quickly changed my mind there. I think the dude is just an incredible actor and if he plays a character for any length of time you're going to end up fully embracing/accepting him in that role instead of being focused on his prior ones.

Spellman
May 31, 2011



Whenever Walt acts goofy, I always think of him as Hal. Like when he stands up to the police officer, or when he's trying to cover up the gasoline spill in his house, I can just imagine him acting like that on Malcolm in the Middle. Walt just looks really funny when he has to run around.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

sticklefifer posted:

I was looking for specific examples, which is why I posted one in the same post you quoted.

Oh, my bad. I misunderstood you.

There's actually, to my mind, too many individually well acted scenes to even pick from but the one's I always think of are the ones between Walt and Skyler. The "I AM the one who knocks" scene stands out, along with a lot of the scenes of Walter trying to bullshit Skyler with his latest lie, especially the ones where we know she's no longer buying it and has resigned herself to the situation.

I pointed it out before, but I think the guy who plays Hank (Dean Norris) really stands out, especially in season 4 when you can tell he's smelling a rat and can't get the scent out of his nose. The way he plays the scenes with Cranston when you can tell that he intuitively knows that Walt is being dishonest are some really great exchanges. Norris uses space and silence like a musician, letting the scene breathe and making it very believable as result. The way he emotes - not saying anything and just using his face - throughout the series is really great acting.

RJ Mitte as Walt Jr. is very underrated too. It's a testament to his talent that what could have been a stereotypical "one dimensional retarded kid" is played with a lot of nuance. The way the writers treat his handicap as just one facet of his personality instead of his entire identity is delivered really well by Mitte.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.


Mark Margolis really hits it out of the park playing a guy who can't talk or move other than facial expressions and a bell. Despite all of that he remains one of the most unique and memorable characters of the show. I'd say that's a pretty great example of the kind of amazing performances in the show.

I'd also say that the guy playing Victor was better than you'd expect considering how much more I hated seeing Tyrus in scenes.

8-Bit Scholar
Jan 23, 2016

by FactsAreUseless


For what it's worth, Skylar wasn't a well-liked character because she's boring for the first season and a half because the writers gave her nothing to do. It's exactly that simple--once she got stuff to do, she stopped being an insufferable nag (and just became an rear end in a top hat).

It's stupid to call all criticism of Skylar misogyny just as much as it is stupid to call Skylar nothing but a miserable nagging stinkyhole. It's exactly that simple also.


BiggerBoat posted:

RJ Mitte as Walt Jr. is very underrated too. It's a testament to his talent that what could have been a stereotypical "one dimensional retarded kid" is played with a lot of nuance. The way the writers treat his handicap as just one facet of his personality instead of his entire identity is delivered really well by Mitte.

Mitte actually suffers the condition that Walt Jr. suffers in the show, but to a much more reduced degree. He actually forwent sleep to make his symptoms worse and threw himself intensely into the role. He particularly wanted to bring awareness to his condition and be a sort of role models to others in his position. It's incredibly laudable that he was cast because another popular show at the time, Glee, featured a wheelchair-bound character whose actor I do believe is not handicapped--in fact, I think he even has a dance number in one of the movies, though I am basing this on second hand knowledge.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.


8-Bit Scholar posted:

For what it's worth, Skylar wasn't a well-liked character because she's boring for the first season and a half because the writers gave her nothing to do. It's exactly that simple--once she got stuff to do, she stopped being an insufferable nag (and just became an rear end in a top hat).

It's stupid to call all criticism of Skylar misogyny just as much as it is stupid to call Skylar nothing but a miserable nagging stinkyhole. It's exactly that simple also.


The non-Walt characters are written and directed in the first season to be annoying and emasculating of Walt. The premise of the show is to have you sympathize with this unremarkable, kinda pathetic 50 year old man in the beginning as you watch him break bad, and gradually up until the end you see him transform from a well meaning Mr. Rogers in to a horrible monster of a Scarface.

If someone is saying Skyler is a 'bitch' past season 3, and even in to season 2 then I think it's a definite red flag. When Walt's actions are written on paper there is no way someone can really take his side over hers. He lied to his family and put them all in immense danger and twisted her arm in to staying in a broken marriage with a man she is terrified of.

She's not the most likeable character in the show but the show ends with her terrifying husband killing her brother in law, widowing her sister, putting the family in danger (including having a bunch of neo-nazis come in to her infant daughter's bedroom to threaten her), and stealing her infant daughter while leaving her destitute and bound for prison.

piratepilates fucked around with this message at Aug 9, 2016 around 00:38

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011



8-Bit Scholar posted:

For what it's worth, Skylar wasn't a well-liked character because she's boring for the first season and a half because the writers gave her nothing to do. It's exactly that simple--once she got stuff to do, she stopped being an insufferable nag (and just became an rear end in a top hat).

It's stupid to call all criticism of Skylar misogyny just as much as it is stupid to call Skylar nothing but a miserable nagging stinkyhole. It's exactly that simple also.


Mitte actually suffers the condition that Walt Jr. suffers in the show, but to a much more reduced degree. He actually forwent sleep to make his symptoms worse and threw himself intensely into the role. He particularly wanted to bring awareness to his condition and be a sort of role models to others in his position. It's incredibly laudable that he was cast because another popular show at the time, Glee, featured a wheelchair-bound character whose actor I do believe is not handicapped--in fact, I think he even has a dance number in one of the movies, though I am basing this on second hand knowledge.

That is not why she was disliked, people don't dislike boring characters they forget they exist.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



piratepilates posted:

I believe threatening to kill the daughter? (did this happen? I read it somewhere but I don't remember watching it).

No.

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8-Bit Scholar
Jan 23, 2016

by FactsAreUseless


CharlestheHammer posted:

That is not why she was disliked, people don't dislike boring characters they forget they exist.

Not if that character is given a lot of focus. You're thinking of Marie--a boring character who suffers from being inconsequential to the main plot. Skylar is not only boring, she's literally only utilized to nag at Walt, to play at "finding him out" at points where it's pretty obvious she's not going to. She's a fine actress, it's clear why Anna Gunn got as much screen time as she did, but she doesn't move the plot nor advance any of the intrigues. It's not really anyone's fault by the writers as far as I see it. And after Season 3, you've enough to go on to make a choice of liking or disliking Skylar based upon her actions. She behaves foolishly, I think, but believably so.

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