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8-Bit Scholar posted:Not if that character is given a lot of focus. You're thinking of Marie--a boring character who suffers from being inconsequential to the main plot. Skylar is not only boring, she's literally only utilized to nag at Walt, to play at "finding him out" at points where it's pretty obvious she's not going to. She's a fine actress, it's clear why Anna Gunn got as much screen time as she did, but she doesn't move the plot nor advance any of the intrigues. It's not really anyone's fault by the writers as far as I see it. And after Season 3, you've enough to go on to make a choice of liking or disliking Skylar based upon her actions. She behaves foolishly, I think, but believably so. It doesn't help anyone's case when they can't spell a character's name right, even when they "hate" that character so much. I've always been curious, is that misspelling on purpose or not?
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Aug 9, 2016 01:38
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Marie isn't boring she was the focus of several weird, pointless subplots.
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Aug 9, 2016 05:23
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CharlestheHammer posted:Marie isn't boring she was the focus of several weird, pointless subplots. At least Hank got a good ol' HJ out of it though.
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Aug 9, 2016 05:39
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piratepilates posted:She's not the most likeable character in the show but the show ends with her terrifying husband killing her brother in law, widowing her sister, putting the family in danger (including having a bunch of neo-nazis come in to her infant daughter's bedroom to threaten her), and stealing her infant daughter while leaving her destitute and bound for prison. Having bad things happen to her, especially when she has been offered an out several times by the plot and chosen the status quo, does not maker her likable or interesting. At least not to me. 8-Bit Scholar posted:but she doesn't move the plot nor advance any of the intrigues. This, a thousand times this. Every time she has a chance to continue moving the plot along she decides to stagnate it instead. Four corners is a prime example of this. She could abandon Walt and cause something interesting to happen, but instead she turns around and go home. Later she could side with Hank and Marie and turn Walt into a wanted fugitive, but instead she decides to side with him ("for her family" shades of Walt anyone?) and delay that development. There is a scene in season 5 (I think) that encapsulates the problem plot wise with Skyler. The kids have been living with Hank and Marie, Walt has gotten out of the game. Family life has resumed some semblance of normalcy. And then cut to Skyler and Marie sitting in a living room and instantly it is obvious that it is time for the kids to come back home. It felt like the writers checking a box off on a list of things that need to happen. CharlestheHammer posted:That is not why she was disliked, people don't dislike boring characters they forget they exist. She starts unlikable, and proceeds to be boring. It's not... good.
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Aug 9, 2016 05:55
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Last Chance posted:It doesn't help anyone's case when they can't spell a character's name right, even when they "hate" that character so much. I've always been curious, is that misspelling on purpose or not? Skyler/Skylar: not a great name to start with and who the gently caress cares how you spell it My name is Meghan not Megan ugh Jesus you are so loving misogynist that MUST be intentional
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Aug 10, 2016 16:47
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Last Chance posted:It doesn't help anyone's case when they can't spell a character's name right, even when they "hate" that character so much. I've always been curious, is that misspelling on purpose or not? I know, right? Because they spell her name all the time on the show. I accidentally referred to Christopher Reeve as Christopher Reeves in a comic book movie thread and it totally invalidated my opinion. Good lord. Seriously, is this why the old thread went to poo poo? Skylar/Skyler hate? One thing that stood out to me on the rewatch was the need to have what seemed like an entire all new cast of villains introduced into the story. They handled it pretty well for the most part, and I knew right away that Todd was going to be a problem, but it was a little jarring on binge watch to suddenly have Lydia and the nazi guys so abruptly thrust into the protagonist role. Felt like it moved a little fast. Having Hank learn about Walt eased the transition somewhat though and kept an air of familiarity and consistency to the overall arc.
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Aug 10, 2016 17:30
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One thing I don't fully get: In S4 how did Walt know that the Tyrus dude or whatever his name was would happen to be watching the DEA that one afternoon when Hector showed up to the DEA to "inform"? Obviously Walt was counting on Tyrus seeing him there and reporting back to Gus that Hector was talking to the DEA, but what if Tyrus just happened to not notice or be there monitoring them when Hector showed up? Also I think I might be the only BB viewer in history who didn't have any problem with Skyler at any point in the series. She pretty much acted how I would expect any self-respecting mother to act in the situations she was put through. Plus Ana Gunn is an excellent actress, she sold the poo poo out of that character. I don't think I'll ever understand why everyone hated her. Secular Humanist fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Aug 10, 2016 |
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Aug 10, 2016 17:49
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Secular Humanist posted:One thing I don't fully get: In S4 how did Walt know that the Tyrus dude or whatever his name was would happen to be watching the DEA that one afternoon when Hector showed up to the DEA to "inform"? Obviously Walt was counting on Tyrus seeing him there and reporting back to Gus that Hector was talking to the DEA, but what if Tyrus just happened to not notice or be there monitoring them when Hector showed up? Walt knows that Gus is hyper competent and obsessed with Hector, seems pretty simple to me. Also, Walt has seen what Gus does to his henchmen who fail him.
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Aug 10, 2016 17:59
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WampaLord posted:Walt knows that Gus is hyper competent and obsessed with Hector, seems pretty simple to me. So he just kind of assumed Gus would have eyes on Hector at all times and would know for sure that Hector checked out of the old people home to go talk to the DEA? I guess that makes sense, I just couldn't tell if I missed something or it was written as I remember it.
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Aug 10, 2016 18:02
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Secular Humanist posted:One thing I don't fully get: In S4 how did Walt know that the Tyrus dude or whatever his name was would happen to be watching the DEA that one afternoon when Hector showed up to the DEA to "inform"? Obviously Walt was counting on Tyrus seeing him there and reporting back to Gus that Hector was talking to the DEA, but what if Tyrus just happened to not notice or be there monitoring them when Hector showed up? IIRC, Gus had close tabs on Hector AND Hank because it was clear Hank was on their trail. I assumed it was part of Walt/Hector's plan that Hector would *only* talk to Hank in order to draw him out of hiding, which would almost certainly catch Gus's attention if Hector going to the DEA offices wasn't enough.
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Aug 10, 2016 18:03
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Last Chance posted:IIRC, Gus had close tabs on Hector AND Hank because it was clear Hank was on their trail. I assumed it was part of Walt/Hector's plan that Hector would *only* talk to Hank in order to draw him out of hiding, which would almost certainly catch Gus's attention if Hector going to the DEA offices wasn't enough. Ohhh right, I forgot Gus was keeping tabs on Hank too... derp.
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Aug 10, 2016 18:06
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BiggerBoat posted:One thing that stood out to me on the rewatch was the need to have what seemed like an entire all new cast of villains introduced into the story. They handled it pretty well for the most part, and I knew right away that Todd was going to be a problem, but it was a little jarring on binge watch to suddenly have Lydia and the nazi guys so abruptly thrust into the protagonist role. Felt like it moved a little fast. Two of my all-time favorite shows (BB and Banshee) ended their amazing series with the final bad guys being nameless Nazis that were suddenly introduced in the final few episodes. Weird lapse in writing for otherwise really solid shows
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Aug 10, 2016 18:10
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Skylaer hate did not kill the old thread Skylaer love did
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Aug 10, 2016 19:08
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Yeah weirdly hating women in TVIV isn't new.
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Aug 11, 2016 01:02
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I love that people will white knight a repulsive fictional character as if it's a real person because rational criticism is grounded in misogyny and not a natural mental stimulus response to an unlikably written character Wait, no I don't, it makes for a loving unreadable thread Your husband is dying of cancer and you're going controlling psycho over him and his acquaintances smoking pot uh yeah what's not to like, obviously you're a confirmed woman hater if you're not gung ho for that Harold Stassen fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 19:10
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Harold Stassen posted:Your husband is dying of cancer and you're going controlling psycho over him and his acquaintances smoking pot uh yeah what's not to like, obviously you're a confirmed woman hater if you're not gung ho for that The pot thing was a lie to cover up for the fact that he was cooking meth. It also happened before he told Skyler that he had cancer. e: You don't have to be gung ho about it. There's a middle ground where a character's actions can be understandable but still recognized as the wrong thing to do. Pepe Silvia Browne fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 19:16
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I can't imagine why the wife of a school teacher would be concerned that her husband was buying pot from a former student. No way he could get in trouble at work for that.
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Aug 11, 2016 19:19
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Also, I understand that Skyler comes off as controlling, but do you ever stop to ask why she's controlling? How she came to be in the position where she's telling her adult husband which credit cards he can and can't use? Walt is shown to be pretty bored with his normal life. He's basically on auto-pilot up through the scene where he gets the news about his cancer. Hence, "I am awake" afterwards. Walt has been putting himself in the backseat of his own life because he's resigned to the fact that he blew it. He had potential and he squandered it because he couldn't swallow his own pride (this isn't explicitly shown, but it's heavily implied in the scenes with Gretchen), and now he's just this regular dude with a boring life. He cares about his kids, and he cares about his wife, but he's detached. So Skyler is the one who has to be more engaged and pay attention to poo poo like knowing which credit card is the one we just keep for emergencies.
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Aug 11, 2016 19:29
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WampaLord posted:I can't imagine why the wife of a school teacher would be concerned that her husband was buying pot from a former student. That being said, Sky is definitely a very controlling wife as depicted in season 1; she's not doing so in any malicious way, but the way their life has gone, Walt is thoroughly henpecked and you can see clearly that he's had a lot of his agency around the household supplanted by his wife's wishes. It's one of the factors that contributes to him falling in love with the thrill of his criminal lifestyle. When she starts losing control, she reacts negatively, leading to Ted and then to her own criminal dealings. She goes from anger to guilt to fear and has her own journey in the later half of the show, but early on she's just kind of a mother hen who is starting to notice that the rooster's gone from the house a lot.
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Aug 11, 2016 19:40
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Harold Stassen posted:Your husband is dying of cancer and you're going controlling psycho over him and his acquaintances smoking pot uh yeah what's not to like, obviously you're a confirmed woman hater if you're not gung ho for that Don't forget that she herself was secretly smoking while pregnant, just to really drive that hypocrisy home. THA TITTY THRILLER posted:Also, I understand that Skyler comes off as controlling, but do you ever stop to ask why she's controlling? How she came to be in the position where she's telling her adult husband which credit cards he can and can't use? It's because she's staying at home all day  writing a novel so she has endless free time to micromanage everything he does. Walt is too busy working multiple jobs from dawn til dusk to support his willfully unemployed wife and special needs son and the unexpected child they have on the way to pore over every credit card statement.
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Aug 11, 2016 19:58
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Someone posted an interview with Michael Chiklis talking about The Shield recently. It made me ponder what would have happened if it had been the strike team after Walter. Albuquerque would probably have just ended up as a giant smoking crater. I'd love a scene with Vic and Heisenberg.
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Aug 12, 2016 16:55
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WampaLord posted:I can't imagine why the wife of a school teacher would be concerned that her husband was buying pot from a former student. Yeah I have a hard time finding any real critical look of her that isn't just taking a rational response she has and twisting it around to desperately find a way to paint her as comically evil.
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Aug 12, 2016 19:00
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WampaLord posted:I can't imagine why the wife of a school teacher would be concerned that her husband was buying pot from a former student. It's not that she was concerned, its what she did with that concern. Confronting Jesse instead of talking to Walt was controlling and manipulative. It's like saying you can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with Skyler being upset that those Jocks were making fun of her son without acknowledging that her going to confront them would only make the situation worse, and was explicitly against Walt Jr's wishes for good reason.
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Aug 13, 2016 01:04
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Did Gus order Tomas murder? Gus seems appalled at the suggestion, but Walt appears to call his bluff, 'I would never ask you that.' It's not really confirmed one way or the other- but the body being left in the open makes it seem like a blatant attempt to provoke Jessie into getting himself killed.
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Aug 13, 2016 17:31
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JVNO posted:Did Gus order Tomas murder? Gus seems appalled at the suggestion, but Walt appears to call his bluff, 'I would never ask you that.' It's not really confirmed one way or the other- but the body being left in the open makes it seem like a blatant attempt to provoke Jessie into getting himself killed. I always wondered this too, because it really could have been Gus that did it. I forget, when Walt actually poisons a kid does Gus noticeably recognize the use of children as a move to draw him out? Because if not, hurting kids might not be on his radar as something he'd expect to be an action of an enemy.
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Aug 13, 2016 17:39
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BiggerBoat posted:Seriously, is this why the old thread went to poo poo? Skylar/Skyler hate? I'M TELLING YOU, IT'S SKYLER SOZE! 
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Aug 13, 2016 17:52
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Last Chance posted:I always wondered this too, because it really could have been Gus that did it. I forget, when Walt actually poisons a kid does Gus noticeably recognize the use of children as a move to draw him out? Because if not, hurting kids might not be on his radar as something he'd expect to be an action of an enemy. I always assumed he did, because it's not long after Gus pulls this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9cwsKHjTEk
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Aug 13, 2016 18:32
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It strikes me as odd that Mike would stand by him following that scene. I know he's pragmatic, but he seems to have a particularly large chip on his shoulder for abusing the defenceless. It does work in the favour of the 'Gus ordered Tomas murder' theory though.
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Aug 13, 2016 18:52
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JVNO posted:It strikes me as odd that Mike would stand by him following that scene. I know he's pragmatic, but he seems to have a particularly large chip on his shoulder for abusing the defenceless. Mike is no stranger to threats and intimidation, however. I'm guessing if they ever had to make a threat like to one of their misbehaving subordinates they would expect to never have to act upon it. In this case Gus underestimated (or perhaps in some respects, overestimated) Walt.
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Aug 13, 2016 21:26
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8-Bit Scholar posted:That being said, Sky is definitely a very controlling wife as depicted in season 1; she's not doing so in any malicious way, but the way their life has gone, Walt is thoroughly henpecked and you can see clearly that he's had a lot of his agency around the household supplanted by his wife's wishes. It's one of the factors that contributes to him falling in love with the thrill of his criminal lifestyle. When she starts losing control, she reacts negatively, leading to Ted and then to her own criminal dealings. She goes from anger to guilt to fear and has her own journey in the later half of the show, but early on she's just kind of a mother hen who is starting to notice that the rooster's gone from the house a lot. Another messed up thing Skyler does is leave a pizza to rot on her rooftop. Sure it was wrong of Walt to throw it up there in the first place, but leaving it up there sets the wrong example for Flynn/Walt Jr.
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Aug 25, 2016 21:06
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hahahah just caught up with the last 48 posts in this thread and holy hell literally every criticism of Skyler given in that period can be boiled down to "she's a bitch! what a bitch!"
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Aug 25, 2016 22:28
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I never disliked Skylar as a character but I was super bored with any of her side plots that were just her on her own. Like the bit where she was working at the dealership was mad dull.
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Aug 25, 2016 23:25
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muscles like this? posted:I never disliked Skylar as a character but I was super bored with any of her side plots that were just her on her own. Like the bit where she was working at the dealership was mad dull. What dealership?
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Aug 25, 2016 23:28
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To talk about Better Call Saul a bit: it's a great show. Its biggest weakness is that everyone expected it to be a Breaking Bad lite, or a Saul sitcom, and it takes a few episodes to prove to you it's NOT that. It's its own thing, a really slowburning character study, and it excels at that. For example, without spoiling anything, there are many times the show builds up some problem or tense situation and you know it's about to boil over in an intense classic Breaking Bad moment. Instead, there's a compelling conversation between two characters or a big emotional reveal, the plot kind of meanders in a different direction, and it feels just as powerful as any of the action packed plot event twists in Breaking Bad. The biggest reveal in the show thus far is basically a character explaining his state of mind, and it WORKED as a big moment. It's a really smart and really well written show, and Bob Odenkirk flashes some dramatic chops that I don't think anyone knew he had. The Season 2 reset is lame but I'll forgive them because it's clear they wanted to make sure the show told a complete story in the (very possible) event it only got one season. I'm also not sure how I feel about the "Mike Begins" stuff, since it's so disconnected from Jimmy at this point. It's entertaining but feels very patched on and definitely feels like the "breaking bad lite" that I think the many, many people who don't watch this show assume it to be. BiggerBoat posted:With both Walt and Saul, it seems like a case of escalation born of desperation. They both seem to get in over their heads and then convince themselves to do "just this ONE more morally questionable act" and then everything will be OK. In Walt's case, he's just completely in over his head aside from the science and for every act he takes two more problems arise. Yeah, Jimmy's an interesting contrast to Walt. Both guys have the instinct to "break bad" in their core. Walter gets so many outs but keeps turning back to the bad stuff because it's what he ultimately wants to be. Jimmy is a guy who really wants to make it as a legitimate lawyer, but everything around him (both people, circumstances and fate) sabotages that and pushes him back to the illegitimate stuff. He really is a good guy and so much of the show is made incredibly sad by knowing the scuzzy guy he turns out to be. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 16:14
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Tender Bender posted:I'm also not sure how I feel about the "Mike Begins" stuff, since it's so disconnected from Jimmy at this point. It's entertaining but feels very patched on and definitely feels like the "breaking bad lite" that I think the many, many people who don't watch this show assume it to be. Also I know that it's something that can't be helped but Jonathan Banks is almost 70 years old and with him getting more screen time and being a lot more hands-on than he was in Breaking Bad it's definitely starting to make his constant supercop antics a little hard to swallow. I mean, he's a great actor and he can look intimidating for miles and hold a gun like nobody's business but when they start having him delivering beatdowns on thugs half his age and disarming a dude holding a gun to his head in an instant it really pushes the illusion to its breaking point even with the best TV magic at work. I really hope he lives for a good long time because another thing about his increased involvement is that if he bites it anytime soon they're either going to have to end the show or pull off something really awkward like when Tony's mom died in The Sopranos.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:01
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Guy Mann posted:Also I know that it's something that can't be helped but Jonathan Banks is almost 70 years old and with him getting more screen time and being a lot more hands-on than he was in Breaking Bad it's definitely starting to make his constant supercop antics a little hard to swallow. I mean, he's a great actor and he can look intimidating for miles and hold a gun like nobody's business but when they start having him delivering beatdowns on thugs half his age and disarming a dude holding a gun to his head in an instant it really pushes the illusion to its breaking point even with the best TV magic at work. I read this thing that suggests that men get stronger as they age, like chimp strong. They just completely lack endurance so if they can finish a dude with one hit they win. If they miss, they'll be wheezing and getting beat down. Not sure how much truth there is to this but I wouldn't pull some poo poo on an angry old dude who'd been scrapping his whole life.
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Aug 27, 2016 23:32
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BCS has some interesting characters, but it feels like the story is running on a treadmill. And episodes seem boring, and quiet. I miss the amazing songs they picked for Breaking Bad. It has the production quality of endgame Breaking Bad. But it is dryyyyyyyyy.
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Aug 28, 2016 01:27
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I like it. Not every show has to move its plot along at a breakneck pace. It's nice when you let stuff simmer a bit sometimes.
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Aug 28, 2016 01:40
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Spellman posted:BCS has some interesting characters, but it feels like the story is running on a treadmill. And episodes seem boring, and quiet. I miss the amazing songs they picked for Breaking Bad. The legal stuff moves super slowly. But the show isn't really about that, it's about the characters who happen to be involved in the legal stuff, and every episode is CRAMMED with rich character moments. Like, as the first season built to its climax I was sure the retirement home thing was gonna come to a head in a big dramatic event. Instead it's just a backdrop to the actual important stuff, the relationships between all these people. It's a lot like the Sopranos in that respect, another show that got frequent complaints about being too slow. It definitely isn't Breaking Bad Too. Again, I almost feel like it would be more successful if it didn't have Breaking Bad's shadow looming over it. The first few episodes also made it seem more like it was gonna be about wacky capers which didn't help. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Aug 28, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 03:32
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Tender Bender posted:The legal stuff moves super slowly. But the show isn't really about that, it's about the characters who happen to be involved in the legal stuff, and every episode is CRAMMED with rich character moments. Like, as the first season built to its climax I was sure the retirement home thing was gonna come to a head in a big dramatic event. Instead it's just a backdrop to the actual important stuff, the relationships between all these people. It's a lot like the Sopranos in that respect, another show that got frequent complaints about being too slow. I know what it's trying to do, I just don't think it's working. It just seems like every time a horrific or nefarious thing happens between Jimmy and Chuck, everything just goes back to the way it was the next episode. Even their relationship, soured by the revelation that Chuck has been, for years, sabotaging his opportunities at Hamlin & McGill, Jimmy is back to caring about Chuck every other episode. Or Chuck brains himself in the print shop, has a traumatic experience in the ward (amazing scene by the way), and then he's just back home, being crazy as usual. There was this interview Vince had regarding the first episode of Breaking Bad, and how the first cut of the pilot had a ton of music, and was scaled back in future episodes. But music was a prominent part of almost every episode, regardless. I can still remember montages of the meth cooks, looking for Walt when he was missing, Jesse's heroin trip, and some of the original Dave Porter music that played during the action segments. In Saul we get a nearly 6 minute scene of Mike breaking into the Kettleman's house to some forgettable track. [BCS rationale for the less reliance on music] Like I say, the show is pretty, but, while I don't think going into it with Breaking Bad-level expectations on the action front is a good idea, it should at least be entertaining. Long, drawn out scenes, many of which have long spats of silence get frustrating. There's not enough fun to cushion out those dramatic beats. And I actually think the reverse is happening; the show receiving much undue praise because it spun off from Breaking Bad. But it's not the actors, or the cinematography that's bugging me. It's the seeming lack of forward-motion that's really slowing the whole thing down. Great individual character moments I agree, but, taxing when they're back to back to back. Back end of Season 2 has improved though. Mike & Nacho's relationship, and their tension with the cartel has introduced some engaging problems. I just hope it doesn't fizzle out. Not trying to turn anyone off of watching though. It's a good AMC show. Just not great. Spellman fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Sep 1, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 05:57
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