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Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy
sorry if this article is dumb, i just found it to be the most hilarious unselfaware thing i have read in days (and i read the reddit relationships thread!). i image that every objection that the doctors have could just as easily apply to the complaints box at McDonalds (or anywhere else really)
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/866202

quote:

Patient complaints against physicians and the ensuing complaint review process seriously affect physicians' long-term psychological well-being and can lead to their practicing defensive medicine, results of a large qualitative survey show.

Led by Tom Bourne, MD, PhD, from the Department of Surgery and Cancer, Imperial College London, United Kingdom, the study is an analysis of responses to qualitative questions as part of a larger anonymous survey completed by almost 8000 physicians.

As previously reported by Medscape Medical News, the quantitative results of the survey, released in early 2015, showed that 16.9% of physicians who were the subject of complaints experienced moderate to severe depression, compared with 9.5% of their peers who did not receive complaints. Moderate or severe anxiety was reported by 15% and 7.3% of physicians, respectively.

The current analysis revealed that physicians who are subjected to complaints often feel powerless and emotionally distressed. Almost half (45%) report negative feelings toward those managing the complaints and the complainants themselves.
Dr Tom Bourne

The study was published online July 4 in BMJ Open.

Need for Significant Change

The results also showed that the most stressful part of the complaint was its prolonged duration and unpredictability. Some physicians believed that the process was biased in favor of complainants. As a result, it had an impact on physicians' careers, with many changing the way they practiced medicine.

The majority of respondents believe the complaints process should be more transparent and better managed and that the amount of time devoted to processing a complaint should be limited. They also believe the process should include an open dialogue with complainants.

"Currently it is not unreasonable to argue that there is a risk that rather than providing feedback and an opportunity to improve, complaints cause psychological damage to doctors and lead to worse patient care," the investigators write.

"Based on this study and our previous quantitative research we would suggest that significant changes must be made in a system that the evidence suggests is both unnecessarily confrontational and damaging to all parties."

To determine how the complaints process affects the feelings, experiences, and professional behavior of physicians, the team analyzed responses to three quantitative items that were included among the quantitative questions that were sent to 95,636 members of the British Medical Association. The items were as follows:

Try to summarize as best you can your experience of the complaints process and how it made you feel.

What were the most stressful aspects of the complaint?

What would you improve in the complaints system?

A total of 10,930 responses to the overall survey were received. Of these, 6146 cited a previous, recent, or current complaint. Of the respondents in this group, 3417 (31.3%) resonded to items 1 and 2. Item 3 was answered by 93 respondents.

Randomly selecting 1000 respondents who responded to items 1 and 2, the responses to each item were read and coded into themes. After 80 responses, no new codes emerged, and a further 20 sets of responses were examined to test the validity of the code set.

From these 100 sets of responses, four negative themes about the experience of a complaint were identified. These included negative feelings toward the complainant or those managing the complaint (48 physicians), feelings of impotence, powerlessness and helplessness (45 physicians), emotional distress (42 physicians), and negative feelings toward the self (22 physicians).

In addition, the theme of "positive feelings" about some aspects of the complaint were experienced by 23 physicians.

The most stressful aspects of the complaints centered on procedural issues (60 physicians), fear of the consequences of the complaint (20 physicians), impairment of self-image and confidence (14 physicians), and feeling intimated or embarrassed about having to justify oneself to senior colleagues (13 physicians).

Other stressful themes identified by the researchers, which were experienced by fewer than 10 physicians, included awareness that the complaint was justified, feeling the complaint was unfair, and dealing with the complainant.

Twenty-six physicians reported that the complaint led to changes in their professional and/or personal life. Ten said that it had an impact on their career, and 13 admitting that they subsequently practiced defensively or practiced poorer medicine as a result.

Among the 93 respondents to item 3, 41 called for greater transparency, neutrality, and more efficient use of time in complaints procedures; 23 asked for improved open dialogue with patients and supervising bodies; and 11 said an open, less formal approach was required.

Fourteen respondents felt that there should be more support for physicians during the process, and 27 said there should be a policy for dealing with vexatious and baseless complaints.

Taken together, the results of "both this and our previous study show complaints are associated with very significant psychological morbidity among doctors, while leading to them changing their practice in ways that are likely to damage patient care and incur unnecessary costs to health services," the investigators write.

Noting that many physicians express "little confidence" in the complaints system, the researchers note: "It is axiomatic given a doctor's perception that his or her entire livelihood might be at stake, it is essential they believe that a complaint will be handled fairly, competently and without bias."

Feeling Powerless

Commenting on the findings for Medscape Medical News, Michael F. Myers, MD, professor of clinical psychiatry at SUNY Downstate Medical Center in New York City, noted that the results showed that some participants found the complaints procedure to be a positive experience.

This jibes with his own clinical practice, inasmuch as some of his physician patients have told him that they were supported through the complaints process and that they received updates and feedback whenever possible.

Consequently, Dr Myers believes that it is possible to design a complaints system that addresses the need to resolve complaints and acknowledge patients' feelings while supporting clinicians and reducing stress levels during the process.

It "may sound a bit Pollyanna-ish," but this is reflected in some of the recommendations made by the authors of the report, he said.

"One of the frustrating statements that I’ve heard from my physician patients who are not having a good experience is they feel they've never had an opportunity to tell their side of the story, either verbally or even in writing ― not necessarily to the complainant, but even to the person who is investigating this ― and I think that contributes to a sense of powerlessness," said Dr Myers.

For Dr Myers, this means that the complaints process works better when it is less adversarial
. He noted that there have been examples in which hospital administrators have not "shut the doors" in the face of a complaint but have instead reached out to the family. "Yes, there may still be lawyers, attorneys, etc, but there's a sense of, 'We need to talk about this, we need to express our horror, our sadness, and our guilt. We need to see if there is any way we can move through this, we can learn from this, we can change.' "

Dr Myers said that not all complainants plan to sue. "Sometimes they say, 'I just wanted the doctor's behavior to change. I don't want him or her treating other patients like he or she treated me.' "

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Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003

by Hand Knit
TL;DR, but Dr. Who is really bad and I hate it

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy
thats fair, the BBC isnt for everyone

Muscadine Wine
Feb 13, 2009
Dr Who? more like Mary Sue

Hector Beerlioz
Jun 16, 2010

aw, hec
Not all heroes wear capes

social vegan
Nov 7, 2014



cancer is a fallacy of modern medicine and ur aches and pains can be cured w acai or dick pills yw

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


Only difference is when those fuckers self diagnose 'moderately severe depression' it's probably just as unfounded but it counts in statistics

rakovsky maybe
Nov 4, 2008
They have cause and effect backwards. Moderately to severely depressed docs are shittier and thus receive more complaints.

Ride The Gravitron
May 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
A sense of powerlessness? Wtf? If you became a doctor to experience a sense of power and authority then you became a doctor for the wrong reasons.

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
idk if I had to sit in a clinic and look at an endless march of fat fucks only to tell them 'you need to lose weight or you'll continue being short of breath and probably stroke out in 5 years' and then have them screech in your face about body acceptance I'd be pretty depressed too

GolfHole
Feb 26, 2004

being a doctor is a really lovely job unless youre a lovely doctor and barely do your job

god bless, namaste

Uncle Wemus
Mar 4, 2004

Now imagine how people working even less respected jobs feel

Helical Nightmares
Apr 30, 2009

FuhrerHat posted:

being a doctor is a really lovely job unless youre a lovely doctor and barely do your job

god bless, namaste

ItBurns
Jul 24, 2007

Uncle Wemus posted:

Now imagine how people working even less respected jobs feel

maybe they should have been doctors?

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!
Lipstick Apathy

FuhrerHat posted:

being a doctor is a really lovely job unless youre a lovely doctor and barely do your job

god bless, namaste

Yeah, but the money.

GolfHole
Feb 26, 2004

notZaar posted:

Yeah, but the money.

in socialist paradises your pay is capped annually and you also have to do mandatory public clinic/emergency room work

only be a doctor if you care about life
if you care about money be a dentist

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

FuhrerHat posted:

and you also have to do mandatory public clinic/emergency room work

according to House MD this is already true though???

that House trying to avoid clinic duty haha what a rascal

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!
Lipstick Apathy

FuhrerHat posted:

in socialist paradises your pay is capped annually and you also have to do mandatory public clinic/emergency room work

only be a doctor if you care about life
if you care about money be a dentist

Just move to America we always let accredited docs in as long as they're white.

GolfHole
Feb 26, 2004

notZaar posted:

Just move to America we always let accredited docs in as long as they're white.

thats where all our doctors go so all we have left are ones disposed from other regimes

that being said we need more good doctors
who wants to come to canada and be overworked and underpaid and also i need you to do a really good job, please

jBrereton
May 30, 2013
Grimey Drawer
Please don't ineptitude shame.

Dial-a-Dog
May 22, 2001
Maybe the doctors getting more complaints are bad at doctoring and they're depressed because of how lovely they are at it

Linux Pirate
Apr 21, 2012


Hector Beerlioz posted:

Not all heroes wear capes

some of them wear street diapers

Not Nipsy Russell
Oct 6, 2004

Failure is always an option.
I know nothing about the UK, but here in the US, many of the large health care systems are using that patient feedback in doctors' salary reviews. I have a good friend who is an emergency MD, and in his case, a patient's opinion about the way their intubation felt counted almost as much as whether it was effective.

GolfHole
Feb 26, 2004

Not Nipsy Russell posted:

I know nothing about the UK, but here in the US, many of the large health care systems are using that patient feedback in doctors' salary reviews. I have a good friend who is an emergency MD, and in his case, a patient's opinion about the way their intubation felt counted almost as much as whether it was effective.

i demand the best ear nose and throat plumber available

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
to be sure, every doctor is a thin-skinned bitch who needs a boot up they rear end, and i would never nuh uh no way hang out with any of them outside the workplace, but i'm guessing the thrust of that research is the apparent affinity of sadbrains docs towards defensive medicine (ie, cover my rear end first, then i guess help the pt).

like, i've done menial labor before and getting told i suck made me sad (because its true), but nobody gets hurt if i practice defensive housepainting, you know?

a hole-y ghost
May 10, 2010

Heh, I've never complained about my doctor, I'm letting him get all powerful and leveled up

raton
Jul 28, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
Any doctor in the US who doesn't make 100% of his decisions based on "When I get sued what gives them the smallest chance of winning?" will get sued out of doctordom before you ever get to see them. Patient satisfaction numbers are just an excuse not to give full raises from the hospital. Doctors are also mostly poo poo with a turd grade stem education (most never take anything harder than calculus or biochem) and when you look at a doctor you should see a plumber of bodies, not a learned man.

Basically if you get sick just kill yourself because everything about getting better is 60% misery and 40% con.

spud
Aug 27, 2003

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
Once Brexit happened I marched to my doctors, called him a little bitch and told him to get the gently caress out of our country. When he said he was born in the UK I rammed that ear-light thing up his rear end and he started crying.

Beef Turret
Jul 9, 2009

by Lowtax

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
out of how many medical procedures though?

Cubone
May 26, 2011

Because it never leaves its bedroom, no one has ever seen this poster's real face.

Hector Beerlioz posted:

Not all heroes wear capes

i would posit that no heroes wear capes.

if you see somebody in a cape it's probably a nerd or an older european gentleman

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!
Lipstick Apathy

Wow even more than cops, truly deadly.

raton
Jul 28, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
The medical errors that kill people usually involve some disease collecting octogenarian that should have been dead fifteen years ago and is on 20 some medications and has a procedure done every few months. There's only so much disaster one can court.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

You know when you stop and think it's a miracle any of us are alive at all

raton
Jul 28, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
It would be a miracle if we were all dead

ghlbtsk
Apr 19, 2005

these bath mats
are
GORGEOUS
*is required to arrive at appointment exactly on time*
*arrives on time and spends 90 minutes sitting in the waiting room*

ghlbtsk
Apr 19, 2005

these bath mats
are
GORGEOUS

Sheep-Goats posted:

It would be a miracle if we were all dead

the time is nigh for Reverse Jesus (kills all of mankind to absolve him of his sins)

reallivedinosaur
Jun 13, 2012

Ogdober subrise! XDDD
ya how dumb to care about the quality of your health care overall and to look for ways to improve it

you nailed it, OP

its just like your job at McDonalds

e: apparently people complain about you a lot at mcdonalds and you feel bad? want to elaborate?

reallivedinosaur
Jun 13, 2012

Ogdober subrise! XDDD
:argh: i have a perception that doctors make more money than me that makes me irrationally angry at them as a whole :argh:

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a mysterious cloak
Apr 5, 2003

Leave me alone, dad, I'm with my friends!


You guys should hear some of the bullshit complaints docs get, though. "He told me losing weight would help my blood pressure/diabetes! How rude!" "The sidewalk leading to the doctor's office had an empty plastic grocery bag on it, disgusting!" "This doctor charges too much, my copay should be $0!"

Patients can be loving stupid as poo poo.

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