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Disney Princesses & Upcoming Film "Moana" This thread is to discuss the Disney Princess films and merchandise line, as well as other films* which are applicable to this phenomenon (to an extent). This is a little separate from the Animation thread, as it's only partially about animation; I'd like the thread to also be considering the role of the "Disney Princess" concept in modern culture, and the ways it has changed over time. Are Disney Princesses an obsolete notion? What makes a Disney Princess film a "princess" film, aside from a female protagonist? What is the logic behind why some characters are Princesses and others are not? What are the effects of this marketing juggernaut on children, male and female? Who is your favorite Disney princess and is that reflective of your personal values or the values of your community? Has Disney co-opted a rich tradition of oral fairytales, essentially forcing out alternative interpretations, to the point that even more "faithful" adaptations are considered intrinsically second-rate? Why do certain princesses have male villains and others have female villains, and what point is being made by that decision in that film? Ultimately, what are Disney Princess films communicating to us? *e.g. The Swan Princess, Anastasia, Shrek First things first, here they are:  These are the official Princesses. Yes, it's very much an official title. Here we see, in order: Jasmine (Aladdin), Rapunzel (Tangled), Snow White (Snow White & The Seven Dwarves), Mulan (Mulan), Aurora (Sleeping Beauty), Cinderella (Cinderella), Pocahontas (Pocahontas), Tiana (Princess & The Frog), Belle (Beauty and the Beast) Ariel (The Little Mermaid), and Merida (Brave) Esmeralda used to be included, but was removed in 2005. Tinker Bell was an original member of the line-up but was phased out. Alice was also seen on some earlier merchandise, but was removed. Currently, only Mulan is not either royal or married to a royal (or royal equivalent, e.g. sultan's daughter), so they've really clamped down on that qualification. Despite actually being princesses, Kida (from Atlantis), Eilonwy (The Black Cauldron), and Nala (Lion King) have never been included, and the official daughters of princesses (themselves princesses) have never been included (e.g. Melody, Ariel's daughter). Giselle, from Enchanted, was also excluded despite fitting the Disney Princess model to a T. Sofia the First and associated princess Elana will probably stay in the TV-verse and never join the franchise as such. As far as I can tell, Megara and Maid Marian were never included. Moana is speculated to join once her film is released. Although... Perhaps most amazingly, Anna and Elsa, from Frozen, have not been made part of the official line-up yet. They'll probably do a promotion when they add them; at present, Frozen merchandise is still moving in its own right. Here is some general info/patterns about the princesses (where, unless stated otherwise, I am going for the official princesses plus Anna and Elsa, under the speculation that they'll join when cynical marketing forces allow it): Release order: Snow White (1937), Cinderella (1950), Sleeping Beauty (1959), The Little Mermaid (1989), Beauty and the Beast (1991), Aladdin (1992), Pocahontas (1995), Mulan (1998), Princess and the Frog (2009), Tangled (2011), Brave (2012), Frozen (2013), Moana (2016) *Sleeping Beauty almost bankrupted the studio, and you can see afterwards there was a hug gap before they released any more princess-oriented films (unless you count The Black Cauldron, and even then)
Male Villains: Jasmine (Jafar), Mulan (Shan Yu), Pocahontas (Ratcliffe), Tiana (Facilier), Merida (evil bear sort of), Anna & Elsa (Hans), Belle (Gaston) Ostensible ethnicity/presumed-locality by release date:
Cinderella: White/Unclear (usually argued between England and France) Sleeping Beauty: White/Unclear (usually argued between England, "Germany", and France) The Little Mermaid: White/Unclear (usually argued to be Denmark) Beauty and the Beast: White/France ("After all miss, this is France!") Aladdin: Middle-eastern/Deliberately Not A Real Place (but heavily inspired by Iran/Iraq) Pocahontas: Native American/Future Virginia Mulan: Chinese/China Princess and the Frog: African-American/New Orleans Brave: White/Scotland Frozen: White/Scandinavia Moana: Pacific Islander/Pacific Islands The excluded princesses, just for fun:
The Lion King: Lion/Africa (not Asiatic lions!) Atlantis: Atlantean/Atlantis The Hunchback of Notre Dame: Roma/France Alice in Wonderland: White/British Hercules: Greek/Greece Sofia: Hispanic/don't know enough to tell you Elana: Hispanic/don't know Enchanted: White/Deliberately Generic Fantasyland slash new york city Peter Pan: White/"Neverland" but only seems to contact London also she's a huge jerk in this film Anyway, let's name their associated princes, just for fun:
Cinderella: Prince Charming Sleeping Beauty: Prince Phillip The Little Mermaid: Prince Eric Beauty & The Beast: Prince Adam (but not stated in-film, though stated in crappy sequels) Aladdin: Aladdin Mulan: General Sheng Princess and the Frog: Prince Naveen Tangled: Eugene Fitzherbert Brave: n/a Frozen: Kristoff Moana: ostensibly Maui, but we don't really know this You can see that they used to all be princes, but now it's more likely that the male romantic lead will not actually be the princess' meal ticket. Aladdin, Eugene, and Kristoff in particular are of substantially lower social status than the princesses that they marry. More and more, it seems that the nature of the male romantic interest is thematically important, in some cases more important than the villain. For example, the conflict between Mulan and Sheng is far more nuanced and given more gravity than that between Mulan and Shan Yu. Certainly in Frozen, the entire notion of the prince as a villain was significant (though that was somewhat laid down with Beauty and the Beast, where Gaston fit many of the parameters of the traditional Prince, e.g. being the man of highest prestige and influence in the town).
Blonde: Rapunzel*, Aurora, Cinderella, Elsa Redhead: Ariel, Merida, Anna Black: Jasmine, Snow White, Mulan, Pocahontas, Tiana, Moana Brown: Belle
Ready to feel gross? Princess ages!  *Anna is 18, and Elsa is 21. Elsa is therefore the first Disney Princess (to be) who is over 20. Disney musicals, where Disney princess films are often musicals, usually try to include what's called an "I WANT" song, where the protagonist literally sings the thing that they want, so we know what that thing is. Here are the I WANT songs of the Disney Princess films. Snow White: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0niwn2pOEno "Someday My Prince Will Come": Snow White wants a prince to come and marry her. Cinderella: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjIssqHQJ6o "A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes": Someday Cinderella's dream (of not being treated like poo poo) will come true. Sleeping Beauty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXbHShUnwxY "Once Upon a Dream": She'll be reunited with the man she has fallen in love with and they'll be together. The Little Mermaid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BZp2dxpwF8 "Part of Your World": She'll be reunited with the man she has fallen in love with  on land! and they'll be together.Beauty & The Beast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK8Sk-xd7vw "Belle (Reprise)": Belle responds to the villagers singing about her, essentially answering their "why is she such as weirdo?" question with "because gently caress you guys". In a way, this is the first I WANT song which both is and isn't fulfilled. She does get adventure, in that she meets Beast. And yeah I'm generally going to call him Beast.  ... however, is that the kind of "adventure" she meant? It's more like meeting a guy (a cool guy, I don't think it's a Stockholm Syndrome movie, I think the romance is fine, but she does marry him and settle down there and all) and then having another guy you knew getting sooooooo mad about it and then they break down a door, people get scalded, it's a whole thing. Aladdin: I'd argue she doesn't really get one, A Whole New World is more similar to the songs that usually come after the I WANT song. And it's really not her movie, it's his. Mulan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_BtlAw4trg "Reflections": Mulan wants to be acknowledged as the person she truly is and not the person she feels society expects her to be. Princess & The Frog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljdAYTH5QSY "Almost There": She wants the GOD DAMNED restaurant she's been working for, and she wants it to be loving great. A later song in this film chastises her for being single-minded about it, but it's unfair considering the circumstances. Tangled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je4nDvNJXsg "When Will My Life Begin": Even though she doesn't recognize the role her "mother" has in keeping her captive yet, Rapunzel yearns for her freedom from the tower and to engage in the outside world. This is thematically represented by her journey to see the lanterns, but it's bigger than that. Brave: n/a Frozen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgMN0Cfh-aQ "For the First Time in Forever": Other songs also qualify as I WANT songs, to an extent, but I'd say this is the key one. Anna wants a chance to escape the confines of the complex, to have her own life, to meet her destiny, etc. And Elsa wants--at this point--to survive her short exposure to the outside world. Obviously this film plays around quite a bit with the stated desires and intentions of its protagonists. Moana: Unknown (Side note: The Hunchback of Notre Dame is rare in that it definitely has two separate and discrete I WANT songs from its protagonist, "Out There" and "Heaven's Light". The first is Quasimodo asking to be present/accepted in the outside world, even for a short time. The latter is him hoping for a relationship. He gets the former and not the latter, losing out to Phoebus, who doesn't even have a song. Interestingly, Esmeralda's I WANT song is explicitly "I want help for others in need, and do not need anything myself", which hasn't been echoed in any of the other I WANT songs.) Oh, also this is a thing that gets mentioned vis a vis animated character families. Let's find out who's an orphan! Or who is just missing, like, one parent or whatever.
Mother Alive, Father Dead: Tiana Father Alive, Mother Dead: Ariel, Pocahontas, Jasmine, Belle Two Entire Parents: Aurora, Merida, Rapunzel, Mulan No Siblings: Snow White, Tiana, Pocahontas, Jasmine, Belle, Rapunzel, Mulan, Aurora Brothers: Merida Sisters: Ariel, Anna & Elsa, Cinderella (stepsisters) Even in the context of crappy sequels, only Ariel ever had children, that being Melody from "Return to the Sea" which I haven't seen since I was very young and I still recall being terrible and weird. Merchandise-Preferred Appearance:
Rapunzel: Default outfit, "original" hair. Snow White: Default Mulan: Default feminine outfit from early/late in the film, with long hair Aurora: Pink-phase birthday dress (sometimes blue phase, usually pink to balance out Cinderella, who she usually stands next to near the front) with tiara in hair Cinderella: Blue ball gown Tiana: Wedding dress Belle: Ball gown Ariel: On-land dress provided by Eric Merida: Default+ * Anna: Default sister-finding outfit from mid-film onward Elsa: Ice Queen outfit [more content to follow as I feel like it, including a rundown of the films that got Princesses and the films that didn't, thank you for joining me on my lunch break while I worry about things that no one really cares about  ]I have Very Mixed Feelings about Disney princesses, but I think it's certainly interesting what we're doing with them and why they seem to have cultural leverage. Pick fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 20:46
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Parking spot for more info about sparkle women as necessary.
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Jul 19, 2016 20:48
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Oh yeah! This is the point of having included Moana in that title. I'm also going to make this my Moana Predictions thread. At present, we only really have a quick and not super informative trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA57P4D_M6g From this, we know that at least one early prediction of mine is false. I thought Maui would not really be a god. In retrospect, that's a little too close to "Flynn Rider"="Eugene Fitzherbert". We can't have the guy being an identity-stealing shyster every single time. Oh, and we know Maui is at least a magical guy, not only because his tattoos move, but because he can turn into a bird. So he's definitely got some bona fide divine/magical powers. I do think it's very possible that Maui will actually be and stay her love interest. The reasons are: Disney's gotten a little "cynical" about its lead romances in the last few films. I figure that they think they've built up sufficient goodwill that the main couple can be straightforward in this instance. (A repeat of the whole Prince Hans angle would be a little odd coming on the heels of the still-popular Frozen.) Also, in the concept art for Tangled, Brave, and Frozen, it's clear that they've wanted to do an unusually-bodied man for the male romantic lead for a while. (For a while, Merida did express interest in the huge blonde guy, if I recall.) Ew, gross, not the princess though, she's still a model or whatever, but the guy, yeah sure that'd be rad.  Early Flynn Rider. So I figure that Maui is going to be the guy to do it. (And no, Weird Brows, aka Prince Adam, does not count here.) I do not think that they will get married during the course of the film. (I think they've moved away from that, because it's an awkward closing and can't really be the climax any more.) My suspicion is this is going to be the first "moving socially downward" film in this particular catalogue, that is, that Maui will end up having to sacrifice or renounce his powers to join Moana as a normal human. Of course, this would be a bit of a repeat of Hercules, but that's been a while and it's not one of Disney's most memorable films. (I am personally fond of it, but it's not considered one of their classics.) I suppose it's also similar to Princess and the Frog, except Naveen's been cut off since before the film begins--Tiana has nothing to do with it--and him showing his new can-do attitude to his parents is probably going to endear him, and may have redeemed him in their eyes. I also think that the creators might find the stepping-down approach a good idea, coming after Tangled (where both are WDAS, we'll ignore Pixar's Brave there). In Tangled, it's Rapunzel who loses her powers; in Moana, it could be Maui. I think that Moana will have one parent, and it will be her father. They've done some rotation through the whole parent situation, so I don't think they want to go orphan again right away, but they may not feel the need to animate two whole parents. That said, when one parent is dead, it seems to usually be the mother. We'll see how it turns out. My villain prediction is: a more powerful god, someone who makes Maui look like a scrub. Probably someone Maui couldn't beat with his god-powers, who Moana will defeat using whatever skills the film has been highlighting up to that point (almost certainly including smarts and something relating to sailing). Maui's reckoning will be admitting that he wasn't strong enough to defeat this villain. He may even try to prevent Moana from challenging this villain. The villain will be voiced by someone talented who I personally feel Disney has been replying upon too much lately, e.g. Idris Elba. If the villain is male, then there will be some other substantive female character to ensure that Moana is not the only plot-significant woman in the movie. If there is no "villain" per se, then it will be Moana discovering that Maui did something bad for reasons which are either humiliating or well-intentioned but wrong, and she will explain to him the theme of the movie, which will be a rebuttal to whatever the thing was he did. He may be traveling with her to prevent her from uncovering whatever thing it was he did, and she will retrospectively realize he has been sabotaging her efforts along the way. It is also possible that there is a villain, and the villain is more of a minor figure who just happens to point out what Maui did and generally provide exposition as opposed to forwarding any particularly convincing villainy. We will not encounter any non-Pacific-Islander humans. There will be at least one cameo that pertains to Lilo & Stitch.
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Jul 20, 2016 02:02
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I think as Moana is a hot babe, she should have a hot dude, and not someone who looks like they work in animation for a living.
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Jul 20, 2016 02:13
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I'm still mad that they took Alice out of the lineup because she's always been my favorite she's the coolest dammit
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Jul 20, 2016 02:36
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I'm still mad that they took Alice out of the lineup because she's always been my favorite she's the coolest dammit I do think it's a little odd to claim she wasn't popular enough, since the princess line exists to promote all the princess films simultaneously. It's been a way to bolster public opinion of the ones many people had stopped watching (eg Snow White, which honestly doesn't fit modern media sensibilities).
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Jul 20, 2016 02:56
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Whatever happened to Bianca anyway? Is Disney quietly ignoring her existence?
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Jul 20, 2016 03:31
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Is Sleeping Beauty still one? She's my favorite to ask people about because people can never remember what her story was/immediately go to the Snow White story.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:35
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Hat Thoughts posted:Is Sleeping Beauty still one? She's my favorite to ask people about because people can never remember what her story was/immediately go to the Snow White story. What? Of course she is. Her movie's a classic. She's pretty much a non-entity in it but Prince Phillip is cute and badass, Maleficent is an awesome villian and man that dragon fight! Is Prince Phillip the only prince who actively kills the villain? I guess Prince Eric too... Also how come Jane isn't in the lineup? Tarzan's a Lord!
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Jul 20, 2016 03:54
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Samuel Clemens posted:Whatever happened to Bianca anyway? Is Disney quietly ignoring her existence? The animals don't become official Disney Princesses. Nala isn't one either, or Marian. It's a visual thing I suspect. Jane probably isn't because her movie didn't inspire much nostalgia, and she's stylistically a bit out there, like Captain Amelia.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:57
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Is there another example of a "we got a new princess y'all " promotion like you say they'll do with Anna/Elsa? Straight-up popularity aside, I don't quite understand the logic of excluding them when you have, say, Rapunzel there or how making them Unofficial Princesses monetizes them more.
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Jul 20, 2016 05:12
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I'm still mad that they took Alice out of the lineup because she's always been my favorite she's the coolest dammit Is this why Alice was made a Princess of Heart in Kingdom Hearts? Knowing she used to be a Disney PrincessTM makes that make a little more sense. Also does this mean there isn't a "Disney Prince" line up? I mean I don't exactly see the princes being marketed to boys so I figured this would be a Barbie and Ken kinda deal. I also say that because my sister had Aladdin and Jasmine Barbie-line dolls when we were growing up, and while it didn't have her slave outfit it did have her cool evening outfit or whatever that you see for 5 seconds at the end of the film 
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Jul 20, 2016 06:10
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Correct, "Disney Prince" is not an official designation or line the same way "Disney Princess" is (as distinguished from Disney princess, which is any princess in a Disney production, which technically excludes at least Mulan who is a Disney Princess but not a princess of Disney).
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Jul 20, 2016 06:36
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Honestly I never really considered Alice a princess and more or less just a rich familys daughter who went on silly adventures. I'm surprised Jane from Tarzan wasn't temporarily part of the line, then again her go to yellow dress makes her look to much like Belle 
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Jul 20, 2016 07:26
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How come Hawkeye isn't a Disney princess?
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Jul 20, 2016 08:03
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Disney ought to take notes from DC and Marvel and start putting out some sick cross-overs.
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Jul 20, 2016 09:03
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I would like to note that in the Captain Jake line, there is a Pirate Princess whose name eludes me. Source: my son basically watches nothing but the Disney channel and YouTube videos. Thus he is a fan of princesses, dinosaurs, and the xenomorph.
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Jul 20, 2016 09:17
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I remember when Disney bought Starwars, and people were making a fuss about Princess Leia becoming a Disney Princess. Guess that did not happen then?
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Jul 20, 2016 12:43
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Pick posted:I do think it's a little odd to claim she wasn't popular enough, since the princess line exists to promote all the princess films simultaneously. It's been a way to bolster public opinion of the ones many people had stopped watching (eg Snow White, which honestly doesn't fit modern media sensibilities). Could it be because she has a very strong link to a creator (Lewis Carroll)? Most of the other princess are basically fairy tale stories, or are so far removed from their creator that they seem like fairy tales (i.e. Ariel and Hans Christian Anderson)
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Jul 20, 2016 12:54
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eats-almonds posted:Disney ought to take notes from DC and Marvel and start putting out some sick cross-overs. Didn't they already do something like this with Frozen and Tangled? Also, there's that weird live action TV Show. I want to say it stars the children of all the princesses/heroes of disney movies? Disney practically invented this shared universe marketing push, anyway. They just push it through the marketing instead of the stories. Like if Marvel only did solo movies, but made drat sure that all the associated merch was "compatible".
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Jul 20, 2016 13:01
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Also, Marvel is Disney.
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Jul 20, 2016 13:04
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eats-almonds posted:Disney ought to take notes from DC and Marvel and start putting out some sick cross-overs. 
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Jul 20, 2016 17:02
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Why does the Hydra look so much worse than anything else in that picture?
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Jul 20, 2016 17:13
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Isn't Moana meant to be a child? Her VA is about 15 years old and Maui is voiced by the Rock, who's 44. Maui comes across as a lot older than her too, regardless of his VA's age - he's a mythological dude who's done a ton of stuff, he's built like a grown man. Moana is built like a small teenager. I really don't think there's gonna be a romance between them.
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Jul 20, 2016 17:42
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eats-almonds posted:Disney ought to take notes from DC and Marvel and start putting out some sick cross-overs. They're way ahead of you: 
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Jul 20, 2016 19:03
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I don't see Maui as a love interest at all. I think Moana is going to remain single. Also interesting to note that every recent Disney Princess is at least 18 (Tiana, Rapunzel, Anna, Elsa), probably because we recognise people as adults at a later age and a greater awareness of pedophilia. I'm certain that if say, The Little Mermaid was released today, Ariel would be at least 18 as well and there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints about her disobeying her father. Qindarka fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 19:18
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Oracle posted:Is Prince Phillip the only prince who actively kills the villain? I guess Prince Eric too...
Goethel: Dissolves into dust when spell is broken (therefore directly killed by Eugene, but by proxy and without his awareness that this was a potential effect--but as certain a weapon as if Rapunzel's hair were a gun) Snow White: Dead by lightning (confirmed in contemporary novelization to be dead) Shan Yu: Killed by Mulan Maleficent: Killed by the prince, Phillip Lady Tremaine: Alive and fine Governor Ratcliffe: Alive, and a blue-blood sent back to England to face justice for crimes against Native Americans (i.e. alive and fine) Facilier: Dragged to Hell due to inability to pay loans Gaston: Dead from fall (confirmed by skulls in pupils as he falls) Ursula: Killed by Prince Eric Evil Bear: Killed by Merida's mother Prince Hans: Alive, and a blue-blood sent back to his home country to face justice for crimes against white people (i.e. alive but in trouble) So Phillip and Eric for sure, although only Eric does it "legitimately" in my book; Phillip's sword is directed by the stupid fairies because he cannot do loving anything himself. You could make the argument that Prince Adam does kill Gaston, but it's the result of a reflex action. Eugene does kill Goethel, but that wasn't his intention by that action, and he had no way of knowing that would be a consequence of his action. flashy_mcflash posted:Is there another example of a "we got a new princess y'all " promotion like you say they'll do with Anna/Elsa? Straight-up popularity aside, I don't quite understand the logic of excluding them when you have, say, Rapunzel there or how making them Unofficial Princesses monetizes them more. They're currently moving merchandise independently of the Disney Princess franchise, so there's no need for them to be "teamed" with the other Princesses yet. They will probably make an event of adding them to the DP line proper, and that will give merchandise in the DP line a Frozen-related boost. Disney is patient about this stuff and loves to make "events" as gimmicks to sucker money out of people. Pixeltendo posted:Honestly I never really considered Alice a princess and more or less just a rich familys daughter who went on silly adventures. I think that the similarity of Jane's outfit to Belle's ball gown was a legitimate factor. In fact, if Merida's dress weren't green, I don't think she'd be present. It adds visual variation cheaply. I wouldn't be surprised if she were eventually removed; her movie was not particularly well-received either, and I don't think it will manage "Classic" status. This isn't always a dealbreaker (e.g. Pocahontas), but it paints a target. C. Everett Koop posted:How come Hawkeye isn't a Disney princess? Because Marvel movies are garbage except for Captain America 1 and maybe 2. Also if Captain America were real I would kiss him on the mouth and other places, he is gentle and charming and tries to do the right thing. Don't smarm him up! He is a treasure eats-almonds posted:Disney ought to take notes from DC and Marvel and start putting out some sick cross-overs. They have! And not just Kingdom Hearts. In fact, the entire show Sofia the First is cynically designed to get very, very young girls into the Disney Princess line before the actual Disney Princess movies might even be appropriate (or enjoyable) for them. The Disney Princesses make cameos all the time, showing how nice they are to girls younger than them and how relatable they are. Hey, have you seen their movies? Have you seen them? The movie this princess on your show is from? You should ask your mom for that movie. It's out on DVD now. You should buy it. Get the Diamond edition. Ha ha, just kidding. Get the Ultimate edition, there are more Features. Hodgepodge posted:I would like to note that in the Captain Jake line, there is a Pirate Princess whose name eludes me. There's also a Pirate Fairy in the Disney Fairies (Tinkerbell) series, which I've written about in the past. I actually think very highly of that series, for what it is, and may talk about it as my preferred alternative to the approach they've taken with the Disney Princesses (who are largely without flaws and rather inhuman) as opposed to the fairies (credible characterization, as with Tinkerbell herself, Fawn, and Vidia). Eararaldor posted:I remember when Disney bought Starwars, and people were making a fuss about Princess Leia becoming a Disney Princess. Mixed franchises. It's actually even weird that Merida is there, since she's not WDAS like the others. I would not be surprised if she were eventually removed. Davros1 posted:Could it be because she has a very strong link to a creator (Lewis Carroll)? Most of the other princess are basically fairy tale stories, or are so far removed from their creator that they seem like fairy tales (i.e. Ariel and Hans Christian Anderson) I think it's mostly a function of her age. Sure, Snow White is only 14, but 1. they can't really remove her and 2. she doesn't really act like a 14-year-old (and she's not really presented as such). Alice behaves far more like a child, and her film sets her up that way. She also doesn't have a love interest, or have some other characteristics which would make her a fitting member of the line (e.g. a ball gown alternate form).
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Jul 20, 2016 19:42
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Shanty posted:Didn't they already do something like this with Frozen and Tangled? Also, there's that weird live action TV Show. I want to say it stars the children of all the princesses/heroes of disney movies? You're thinking of two distinct properties. There is the show Once Upon a Time, which features Disney Princesses in some weird soap opera garbage thing that I don't watch. (And yes, it's the DPs proper, they've got their Anna and their Elsa and their trolls and the whole bit.) The other, which features the children of villains, is The Descendants which is some other weird garbage I don't watch either. Prior to that, there was also the House of Mouse (animated), which was a way to re-package older cartoons and have characters interact outside their respective universes. Red Bones posted:Isn't Moana meant to be a child? Her VA is about 15 years old and Maui is voiced by the Rock, who's 44. Maui comes across as a lot older than her too, regardless of his VA's age - he's a mythological dude who's done a ton of stuff, he's built like a grown man. Moana is built like a small teenager. I really don't think there's gonna be a romance between them. I'd like to think that this actually matters but I am not convinced that's the case. Qindarka posted:Also interesting to note that every recent Disney Princess is at least 18 (Tiana, Rapunzel, Anna, Elsa), probably because we recognise people as adults at a later age and a greater awareness of pedophilia. I'm certain that if say, The Little Mermaid was released today, Ariel would be at least 18 as well and there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints about her disobeying her father. I think another aspect is the greater acknowledgement of sexuality, just generally. That makes Aladdin the most uncomfortable in this respect, in my opinion, because Jasmine is hugely sexualized (example, her "slave" outfit) despite being 15. Fifteen! In some other films, even where the participants are older, such as Frozen (Anna being 18), it's suggested as the age they start dating. That's not so weird. In Tangled, they even make it explicit that Rapunzel and Eugene don't get married until years after (though it is the focus of the short film about them that followed). That said, creepy as the Jasmine situation is, Ariel does actually get married in the course of her film despite being 16. I actually have a terrible memory for this, weirdly enough, so someone correct me if I'm wrong:
Cinderella: Ends with her wedding Sleeping Beauty: Not married in the course of the film The Little Mermaid: Ends with her married Beauty and the Beast: Not married in the course of the film (not wearing wedding ring at the end) Aladdin: Not married in the course of the film, married in DTV sequels ("They're finally gettin' married!" the big promo line for the film) Mulan: Not married in the course of the film, married in DTV sequel (as do all of Mulan's battle companions) Pocahontas: Not married, and without immediate prospects Princess and the Frog: Married at end of film Tangled: Not married, but we are informed she eventually does Brave: Not married, and without immediate prospects Frozen: Anna is not married, Elsa is not married and has no immediate prospects So the wedded Princesses are Cinderella, Ariel, and Tiana. (Counting only non-sequels, if we include those then Jasmine, Mulan, and Rapunzel are also married.) Of these, Ariel is 16, Cinderella is 19, and Tiana is 19. So it's weird that by far the youngest married Disney princess was from the "return" to Princess films in the late 1980s. Pick fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 19:53
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Pick posted:(e.g. a ball gown alternate form). Alice screams to the heavens, flexes her muscles, and, after a blinding white flash, is resplendent in a magnificent ball gown
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Jul 20, 2016 19:59
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I'm a massive tomboy so the princesses never really interested me much, but that said when I was a very little girl I thought Ariel and Odette were the tits. Odette counts right?! I absolutely loved Swan Princess because she called prince Derek out on liking her only for her looks, and this wasn't lost on 'lil me. Also I predict Maui as a surrogate father rather than love interest.
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Jul 20, 2016 20:03
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dog days are over posted:Also I predict Maui as a surrogate father rather than love interest. This is exactly what the teaser I saw made it seem like.
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Jul 20, 2016 20:14
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ALFbrot posted:Alice, blinking red: Ha.. you think you've beaten me? This isn't even my final form! That's what the mushrooms were for .dog days are over posted:I'm a massive tomboy so the princesses never really interested me much, but that said when I was a very little girl I thought Ariel and Odette were the tits. Odette counts right?! I absolutely loved Swan Princess because she called prince Derek out on liking her only for her looks, and this wasn't lost on 'lil me. I was also a massive tomboy! I wouldn't say I tended to like the Princess films better overall, there were ones I liked and ones I didn't. I didn't see the Swan Princess until I was a little older (directed by the man who went on to direct furry-bait wolfstravaganza Alpha and Omega) but Odette's not bad. I was really hot for that corn princess though, wowza! quote:Also I predict Maui as a surrogate father rather than love interest. That would be my preference, but again, I'm not totally convinced that they've moved that far from having a lead romance (especially when so many films, period, still do--if anything, a Disney film is going to show a more nuanced outcome than your average action flick). Then again, Tangled was pretty recent and that romance was pretty straightforward and also essentially really, really magnificently done.
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Jul 20, 2016 20:18
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Pick's Favorite Onion Stories about Disney: People who know me well know I love The Onion, so I'm re-posting some of my favorite Onion stories involving Disney Princesses. http://www.theonion.com/article/disney-unveils-first-virgin-princess-50774 quote:LOS ANGELES—In an effort to better reflect the diverse backgrounds and experiences of their audience, Disney officials this week introduced Lily of Hazelberry, the company’s first virgin princess. “While our fans have long been enchanted by Belle, Ariel, and Elsa, we wanted to create a relatable princess for girls everywhere who are still virgins,” said Disney executive vice president Zenia Mucha, describing the only Disney princess who has never had sexual intercourse as a quirky, confident, and pure 14-year-old ascendant to the throne of the magical kingdom of Hazelberry. “All Disney princesses have extraordinary stories and inner qualities that make them wonderful and unique, but we’ve always lacked a heroine who hasn’t yet slept with her boyfriend or another male character. We are proud that Lily will finally provide a princess to look up to for the large demographic of young girls who, due to age, choice, or unavailability of sexual partners, have not yet experienced intercourse.” Disney representatives added that sexually active girls would also love Lily’s best friend, Princess Misty, who lives in a neighboring enchanted realm and just moved in with her slightly older boyfriend, Clint. Disney Introduces First Hispanic Princess Disney CEO Figures They’ve Built Up Enough Goodwill To Do A Real Sexist One  quote:BURBANK, CA—Citing a groundswell of praise for such stereotype-bucking princess films as Frozen, Brave, and Tangled, Walt Disney Company CEO Bob Iger said Thursday his company has probably accumulated enough goodwill to make its next animated feature a real sexist one. And Clickhole favorite, Five Disney Princesses Reimagined as Caucasian.
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Jul 20, 2016 20:32
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Pick posted:That would be my preference, but again, I'm not totally convinced that they've moved that far from having a lead romance (especially when so many films, period, still do--if anything, a Disney film is going to show a more nuanced outcome than your average action flick). Then again, Tangled was pretty recent and that romance was pretty straightforward and also essentially really, really magnificently done. It is a little hard to grasp Moana's age when there's no other characters aside from Maui to compare her to design-wise, but considering she's voiced by a fifteen year old and the marketing material refers to her as a "young girl" I'd give Disney the benefit of the doubt on them not pushing a creepy underage marriage on the audience. They've been comfortable releasing films with a younger protagonist and no lead romance before: Alice in Wonderland, Lilo and Stitch, Brave (which explicitly rejects the concept), uh, Chicken Little? And Bolt, I guess, but I'm kind of grasping at straws now.
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Jul 20, 2016 20:50
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How many Disney movies (Princess or otherwise, narrow it down as much as you like) are significantly about their relationship with their parents? I would count Cinderella (step-parents are still parents) and possibly The Princess and the Frog even though her father's dead. In Aladdin Jasmine and the Sultan have an arc even if it isn't given much time to speak of. Belle comes back to town to save her father in Beauty and the Beast. What else?
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Jul 20, 2016 20:57
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Red Bones posted:It is a little hard to grasp Moana's age when there's no other characters aside from Maui to compare her to design-wise, but considering she's voiced by a fifteen year old and the marketing material refers to her as a "young girl" I'd give Disney the benefit of the doubt on them not pushing a creepy underage marriage on the audience. They've been comfortable releasing films with a younger protagonist and no lead romance before: Alice in Wonderland, Lilo and Stitch, Brave (which explicitly rejects the concept), uh, Chicken Little? And Bolt, I guess, but I'm kind of grasping at straws now. To be fair, I've been avoiding most of the advance-talk of Moana, aside from the trailers, so if they're explicitly referring to her as a "young girl" then I think it would be super weird to give her a love interest, at least to any strong extent. (That is, it wouldn't be that weird to give her one like Terrence in Tinker Bell, where she never dated him per se, but it was pretty clear that a "thing" was likely to develop. Not necessarily with Maui, but someone.) Also, Lilo & Stitch did have Nani and her boyfriend David.
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Jul 20, 2016 20:58
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:How many Disney movies (Princess or otherwise, narrow it down as much as you like) are significantly about their relationship with their parents? I would recommend the live-action Cinderella for this (and generally), as it's a much more interesting rendition than the animated one. It's the only live-action version I think it superior to the animated original, though it has its flaws. I don't think the relationship with Jasmine and the Sultan is very well-realized, and it gets resolved too cleanly (much like the matter of Aladdin lying to her). Belle and her father don't seem to have any real conflict internal to their relationship; it's only assaulted from the outside by figures such as D'Arque. Princess and the Frog would probably be the strongest example, and it's made significant to her conflict with Facilier. Pocahontas qualifies also. Oh, ha ha, actually--Mulan! That's mostly what Mulan is about. Good movie, Mulan. E: little mermaiddddd Pick fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 21:15
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you forgot to list Pocahontas's default merch appearance in the OP
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Jul 20, 2016 21:16
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Pick posted:I would recommend the live-action Cinderella for this (and generally), as it's a much more interesting rendition than the animated one. It's the only live-action version I think it superior to the animated original, though it has its flaws. Isn't this pretty must just what Brave is entirely about
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Jul 20, 2016 21:25
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 14:28 |
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Yeah it's hard to keep track of my list on my phone 
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Jul 20, 2016 21:38
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