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Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.


VJeff posted:

Takeover already ran away to Friday to get away from G1 Supercard, so.

I know, it's great Wasn't it announced soon after they lost the battle to keep them out of MSG too

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Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


Yeah, I'm sure HHH was sitting alone in his house crying into his cheerio's asking himself how he it would ever be possible to have an NXT TakeOver in New York City compete with G1 Supercard

VJeff
Jun 2, 2011

#HEKNOWS
#SCOOPS
#IGNOREMYPOSTS


Angry Grimace posted:

Yeah, I'm sure HHH was sitting alone in his house crying into his cheerio's asking himself how he it would ever be possible to have an NXT TakeOver in New York City compete with G1 Supercard

Levesque Fears Meij

But yeah on the length issue, Wrestle Kingdom 13 had so much poo poo on the card they they had to get rid of the Rumble, and leave a bunch of important people off the card (Goto and Suzuki coming to mind quickest) and a bunch of matches were STILL obviously running up against time constraints, leaving the middle of the event feeling poorly paced and overly carried by its opener and its main events. I dunno if that's exactly why NJPW went to two days, but it made the most sense. WWE should've been doing this for like three years already at this point. i dunno why they don't, it's an excuse to lie about the attendance two nights in a row instead of one!

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.


However New Japan came to the right decision for 2020, it's the right decision and I'm glad they came to it

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


VJeff posted:

Levesque Fears Meij

But yeah on the length issue, Wrestle Kingdom 13 had so much poo poo on the card they they had to get rid of the Rumble, and leave a bunch of important people off the card (Goto and Suzuki coming to mind quickest) and a bunch of matches were STILL obviously running up against time constraints, leaving the middle of the event feeling poorly paced and overly carried by its opener and its main events. I dunno if that's exactly why NJPW went to two days, but it made the most sense. WWE should've been doing this for like three years already at this point. i dunno why they don't, it's an excuse to lie about the attendance two nights in a row instead of one!
Because WrestleMania is like the only "casual" event that exists and going to two days is a clear concession against that. Like, they CAN just make it shorter - WrestleMania 30 had 7 matches on the main card, one of which was the Shield in a 90 second squash. Daniel Bryan was on screen for literally over a 1/3 of the run time of the entire event because 2 out of the 3 longest matches on the card were Bryan matches and even then, the odd-match out there was Lesnar/Undertaker which was dramatically longer than it needed to be - most people don't actually remember the match, just the ending. It's sort of the same problem that led to the elimination of brand-specific PPVs, which were way, way better than what they do now.

And I'm sure HHH no longer gets any sleep when he wonders how the main roster can compete with the insane star power of Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, a comedy tag team, 50 year old Jericho and a metric ton of people neither WWE or NJPW considered good enough to sign during the last two years of signing virtually everyone with even a glimmer of hope to get on television.

Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2019 around 18:24

VJeff
Jun 2, 2011

#HEKNOWS
#SCOOPS
#IGNOREMYPOSTS


Angry Grimace posted:

Because WrestleMania is like the only "casual" event that exists and going to two days is a clear concession against that. Like, they CAN just make it shorter - WrestleMania 30 had 7 matches on the main card, one of which was the Shield in a 90 second squash. Daniel Bryan was on screen for literally over a 1/3 of the run time of the entire event because 2 out of the 3 longest matches on the card were Bryan matches and even then, the odd-match out there was Lesnar/Undertaker which was dramatically longer than it needed to be - most people don't actually remember the match, just the ending.

I mean obviously they could make it a shorter, more tightly paced event but at no point in the last three years have they shown any interest in that. They stress "time spent watching the network" as a metric they care about. They're trying to produce as much loving content as possible, they might as well go all out and just have two long-ish events on back-to-back days instead of one horrifying gauntlet where you're wishing for death by the end of the night.

Angry Grimace posted:

And I'm sure HHH no longer gets any sleep when he wonders how the main roster can compete with the insane star power of Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, a comedy tag team, 50 year old Jericho and a metric ton of people neither WWE or NJPW considered good enough to sign during the last two years of signing virtually everyone with even a glimmer of hope to get on television.

We're talking about NJPW, here, not the Elite, please direct your righteous WWEfan indignation at the right source.

Draxion
Jun 9, 2013




Angry Grimace posted:

And I'm sure HHH no longer gets any sleep when he wonders how the main roster can compete with the insane star power of Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, a comedy tag team, 50 year old Jericho and a metric ton of people neither WWE or NJPW considered good enough to sign during the last two years of signing virtually everyone with even a glimmer of hope to get on television.

who are you responding to, nobody's talking about AEW

here's my spoiler for the spoiler thread: Mania is going to be bad this year, for very similar reasons as it being bad last year

bradzilla
Oct 15, 2004

WARP SPEED


Fan of Britches

Angry Grimace posted:

And I'm sure HHH no longer gets any sleep when he wonders how the main roster can compete with the insane star power of Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, a comedy tag team, 50 year old Jericho and a metric ton of people neither WWE or NJPW considered good enough to sign during the last two years of signing virtually everyone with even a glimmer of hope to get on television.

I'm also sure they're desperately trying to retain any talent with contracts coming up in the near future by offering deals way larger than they normally would. Definitely not shook.

VJeff
Jun 2, 2011

#HEKNOWS
#SCOOPS
#IGNOREMYPOSTS


bradzilla posted:

I'm also sure they're desperately trying to retain any talent with contracts coming up in the near future by offering deals way larger than they normally would. Definitely not shook.

Big big fan of the new av.

Daunte Vicknabb
Feb 22, 2005

You are already dead

Imagine being ill-informed enough to classify the young bucks, probably the best team in the last 20ish years at putting together a dramatic tag match, as just a comedy team. Also lmao at thinking that the WWE has a tag team with half the star power of the Lucha Brothers.

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


in fairness AEW has put on two press conferences that were better pro wrestling than the last two wrestlemanias

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real

If “time spent watching the network” is a valid metric.... are they trying to tell us that people actually watch these entire shows? Over the past year I just tune in late and fast forward over anything I have no interest in.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.


Super No Vacancy posted:

in fairness AEW has put on two press conferences that were better pro wrestling than the last two wrestlemanias

I popped harder for Best Friends coming out for a press conference in Scott Hall vests than for anything WWE, TNA or ROH have contributed in the last 7 years combined

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Draxion posted:

who are you responding to, nobody's talking about AEW

here's my spoiler for the spoiler thread: Mania is going to be bad this year, for very similar reasons as it being bad last year

The bar for WWE shows are so low, that if there's one good match on it, people will consider that card a success.

Daunte Vicknabb
Feb 22, 2005

You are already dead

It seems quite likely that Mania will be worse than Fast Lane was, and Fast Lane had some real bad poo poo on it.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


VJeff posted:

I mean obviously they could make it a shorter, more tightly paced event but at no point in the last three years have they shown any interest in that. They stress "time spent watching the network" as a metric they care about. They're trying to produce as much loving content as possible, they might as well go all out and just have two long-ish events on back-to-back days instead of one horrifying gauntlet where you're wishing for death by the end of the night.


We're talking about NJPW, here, not the Elite, please direct your righteous WWEfan indignation at the right source.

It's not "righteous indignation" to have a differing viewpoint that isn't even offensive. Relax. I have no interest in AEW failing because I'm a fan of wrestling and unironically enjoy it in general; I would love for it to be a huge success, really. I just see things that look a bit dicey given their stated goals.

I'll give you that it's not exactly the correct thread for that discussion.

Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2019 around 19:29

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


Draxion posted:

who are you responding to, nobody's talking about AEW

here's my spoiler for the spoiler thread: Mania is going to be bad this year, for very similar reasons as it being bad last year

It's going to be bad because it's going to be 8 hours long which isn't the main reason why WM34 was bad, WM34 was bad because the entirety of the similarly long show was matches nobody gave a flying gently caress about. A match with Stephanie McMahon in it was literally the best match on the show and was in the first hour of the show. I would be highly surprised if WM35 was actually somehow worse with Rollins/Lesnar, Bryan/Kofi, Becky/Charlotte/Ronda as the three featured matches.

Tomahawk
Aug 12, 2003

HE KNOWS


Angry Grimace posted:

And I'm sure HHH no longer gets any sleep when he wonders how the main roster can compete with the insane star power of Cody Rhodes, Kenny Omega, a comedy tag team, 50 year old Jericho and a metric ton of people neither WWE or NJPW considered good enough to sign during the last two years of signing virtually everyone with even a glimmer of hope to get on television.

m8 are you back on the sauce

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


Tomahawk posted:

m8 are you back on the sauce

Using an alcoholic-in-recovery’s addiction issues as a pithy insult to win an online wrestling discussion seems cool and not at all an actual rear end in a top hat move.

What actually happened was I confused the AEW guy with the NJPW guy.

Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at Mar 18, 2019 around 22:07

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



Please don’t double post, it makes me accidentally read one when I try to skip them.

Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008

We All Live In Kawalimus' House


what are ya, barney gumble? From the Simpsons.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Go back to posting spoilers and stop making me have to read this thread - talk about general AEW things in the AEW thread, general WWE things in the WWE thread etc.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009



Sami got a lot taller and more jacked in his time off. Really let his beard grow out too.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.



i'm sorry friend

Drew McIntyre
Oct 24, 2001

i'll always take care of you


Muldoon


looks like the boy whose skin fell off is wrong again

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

rovert
Jun 10, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


Drew McIntyre posted:

looks like the boy whose skin fell off is wrong again

Whose that?

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000



future scoopin'...


Grimey Drawer

I wish Mania WAS limited to an 8-10 match card because then the endless chatter on commentary about how EVERYONE PULLS OUT THE STOPS FOR MANIA SEASON SO THEY CAN IMPRESS PEOPLE might be able to mean something. Like, they spout that line for the No Way Jose vs Elias feud.

One thing that I've kind of liked about Ronda's filler feuds the last couple of months is this notion of "derailing destiny." Everyone wants this huge historic moment where Becky and Ronda (and Charlotte) will be the first women to Main Event a Wrestlemania and prove which one of them is actually the best after being denied the confrontation so many times, but at the same time there was something compelling, at least to me, about the notion of these upstart black sheep like Ruby Riott or Dana Brooke wanting to seize that moment for themselves, or at least spoil it for a person they can't stand.

If the Mania card had some true exclusivity, like say if all the Champ v Champ or Brand v Brand bouts at Survivor Series were determinant in which titles got on the show and then like a 2 v 4 split in which brand get the special attraction/undercard slots, that creates a lot of story potential. If the IC Champ is the only secondary title to be defended at Mania, that could put big targets on the backs of the IC Champ or his #1 Contender, or even both and force them to work together to preserve their match even though they hate each other's guts. If the Raw Tag Champs know months in advance that they're not going to be on Mania, you could do stories about their plan to work together to win the ARMBAR, or friction between them as one of them focuses on trying to get on the Mania card in singles while the other is worried about keeping their title at Fastlane. The ARMBAR in generally can suddenly become more important, people competing for the chance to be in it are people fighting to be on Mania when they have no other route to the show, and you can actually do substantive stories for multiple entrants to fill up a LOT of TV time during the Mania build. If the Universal Champ lost at SurSer, maybe he enters the Rumble and wins and says he wants to pick a challenger instead of picking a champ to challenge. That's an entire new type of Royal Rumble story.

I would also make the fact that there's two PPV's between RR and Mania a hell of a lot less ridiculous. The titles who didn't make it on to Mania can take center stage, giving the stories coming out of the Rumble that set up Mania get a little time to breath and slow-burn since they don't have to attempt to carry like 8 weeks of TV. You can spread critical #1 Contendership feuds across two PPVs instead of having to shoe-horn complete filler garbage. You can play up the notion that anyone fighting for a Mania title on those shows will have huge repercussions for their career and the most important fight card of the year, just like they have been with Ronda, giving those otherwise generally disposable shows gigantic stakes.

I mean, the limitations and exclusivity of the slots at hand certainly drive a lot of attention to what would be otherwise un-noteworthy college basketball games in the last weeks before March Madness, there's no good reason it couldn't do the same for WWE.

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real

Sanguinia posted:

If the Mania card had some true exclusivity, like say if all the Champ v Champ or Brand v Brand bouts at Survivor Series were determinant in which titles got on the show and then like a 2 v 4 split in which brand get the special attraction/undercard slots,

But then you have stuff like Brock beating Bryan at Survivor Series, and now Kofi got hot, but the WWE Title is relegated to the Pre Wrestlemania PPV Show

Big Coffin Hunter
Aug 13, 2005



Astro7x posted:

But then you have stuff like Brock beating Bryan at Survivor Series, and now Kofi got hot, but the WWE Title is relegated to the Pre Wrestlemania PPV Show

The WWE title match going on within the first two hours of the show is a good thing because it'll be before the death slog truly kicks in, so people will actually be into that match and pay attention.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


Big Coffin Hunter posted:

The WWE title match going on within the first two hours of the show is a good thing because it'll be before the death slog truly kicks in, so people will actually be into that match and pay attention.
https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/...066400084488192

Per Dave, card position isn't finalized until the week of the show, but I would be surprised if the WWE Championship match isn't basically where Bryan's match last year was - sort of the second half of the show but not right up against the billed main events. I have doubts that Kofi Kingston is going to take higher billing on the card order than Roman Reigns is. I have absolutely no evidence in support of that, it just seems like how they'd do it, particularly if Roman is going to lose (which he should, Raw needs a true main event heel and they can explain it away by saying Roman wasn't at full strength, and also Drew McIntyre kicks rear end) and the three big babyfaces are going to win.

Seems clear to me that the Triple Threat is closing the show to the point I would consider it absolute insanity if they didn't. Everything they're doing looks like a setup to put over Becky as the coolest person in the entire universe, Ronda's playing an unbeatable asskicker who hates the medium wrestling and its fans, and it's been the main story of both brands. That is like the definition of a main event. Have Becky's reactions cooled down? Sure. I don't think it's because she's actually less popular than she was before though, I think it's more a predictable consequence of not having her do awesome poo poo every single week. Regardless of what people think of the pre-Fastlane build to the match, I'm pretty confident the match will be extremely hot if it's put in the main event slot.

Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at Mar 19, 2019 around 22:20

Big Coffin Hunter
Aug 13, 2005



To be fair, only one of the big three matches should go on last, and we know it isn't going to be Daniel Bryan/Kofi Kingston because of how WWE works. And with how much emphasis they've put on Becky/Rhonda(/Charlotte, I guess she's there too) being THE MAIN EVENT they shouldn't bait and switch it with Brock/Rollins unless Rollins is going over and even that is a maybe. The match has cooled off a little but Becky winning will still be hot

Still kind of funny how most of the story beats they were originally going to go for in the Becky angle got moved to the Kofi build and...

I just talked myself into it Rollins/Lesnar is last because Vince is bored of Becky and Kofi is black and Bryan is short

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


Big Coffin Hunter posted:

To be fair, only one of the big three matches should go on last, and we know it isn't going to be Daniel Bryan/Kofi Kingston because of how WWE works. And with how much emphasis they've put on Becky/Rhonda(/Charlotte, I guess she's there too) being THE MAIN EVENT they shouldn't bait and switch it with Brock/Rollins unless Rollins is going over and even that is a maybe. The match has cooled off a little but Becky winning will still be hot

Still kind of funny how most of the story beats they were originally going to go for in the Becky angle got moved to the Kofi build and...

I just talked myself into it Rollins/Lesnar is last because Vince is bored of Becky and Kofi is black and Bryan is short
I'm not sure the match has cooled off per se, it's more that people are restless and want Becky to get put over a bunch right now even though it seems clear the whole point is putting her over huge at WM. I think there's just general fatigue that it isn't happening yet. It's going to be really hot in the building if it's the main event because that is a special attraction and that's when people will figure out how ridiculous of a push it is to beat Rousey and Flair in the main event of WrestleMania.

I don't think it matters at all whether Rollins is going over or not. It simply isn't the "main event." Unlike Reigns, Rollins has never received particularly nonsensical booking to push him as the top star and he frankly isn't the top star. Rollins/Lesnar doesn't gain anything from being last. The point of main eventing is to put over a match as the biggest match in the company and make the people in it look like massive stars. Rollins has a 0% chance of ever doing anything as cool as cashing in at WM31 and Lesnar main evented like 3 times and still doesn't show up.

KungFu Grip
Jun 18, 2008

HUSS
HUSS
HUSS


where da spoilers at

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007



Grimey Drawer

The women's triple threat should go on last because Becky vs. Ronda vs. Charlotte is the hottest thing in the company. Kofi/Bryan has been gaining but seriously folks it's not hard.

Jiro
Jan 12, 2004



SamuraiFoochs posted:

The women's triple threat should go on last because Becky vs. Ronda vs. Charlotte is the hottest thing in the company. Kofi/Bryan has been gaining but seriously folks it's not hard.

You're exactly right! Which is why Kofi/Bryan will happen somewhere in the middle of the show, and Becky wins as the opener, and Brock loses to finish because the fruit rollup belt is supreme!

CopywrightMMXI
Jun 1, 2011

One time a guy stole some downhill skis out of my jeep and I was so mad I punched a mailbox. I'm against crime, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.


Jiro posted:

You're exactly right! Which is why Kofi/Bryan will happen somewhere in the middle of the show, and Becky wins as the opener, and Brock loses to finish because the fruit rollup belt is supreme!

Brock is winning but will lose it to Roman the next night on Raw.

Source: none

BOOTY-ADE
Aug 30, 2006

BIG KOOL TELLIN' YA'LL TO KEEP IT TIGHT


Fun Shoe

VJeff posted:

All this discussion is telling me is that we need to get our own money mark and start Goon Elite Wrestling.

FYAD would ruin it in like 5 minutes with the Idiot King championship

Jiro
Jan 12, 2004



BOOTY-ADE posted:

FYAD would ruin it in like 5 minutes with the Idiot King championship

At least Ember's husband would have a way to offload all those "King of the Black Women" shirts if there was a FYAD offshoot.

Quid
Jul 19, 2006


CopywrightMMXI posted:

Brock is winning but will lose it to Roman the next night on Raw.

Source: none
Why wait until Raw when you can create a moment by redoing the end of WrestleMania IX?

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Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009


Quid posted:

Why wait until Raw when you can create a moment by redoing the end of WrestleMania IX?

Gotta make sure it's kosher salt, though.

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