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Isnt the obvious answer to why people thought slavery started in america because education in america is americacentric?
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Jul 28, 2016 09:52
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"White Culture" is apparently a pair of words that can reach deep into the sore-riddled rear end in a top hat of GBS and pull out some of the worst posters on this godforsaken website.
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Jul 28, 2016 10:53
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Isn't 'white culture' just the dominant culture in the US/West but we don't see it because we're trained to not notice it and assume it's natural? I've always thought people who say 'whites have no culture' are missing the point. Also I don't think anybody is claiming that only whites practice slavery, apart from that one troll, but wasn't transactlantic slavery unique simply for its epic scale and brutality? It was the biggest forced migration in human history after all.
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Jul 28, 2016 11:59
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Pantsuit posted:Isn't 'white culture' just the dominant culture in the US/West but we don't see it because we're trained to not notice it and assume it's natural? I've always thought people who say 'whites have no culture' are missing the point. The purpose of arguments like "liberal RoboCop revisionism is ruining our schools" is twofold; to render American chattel slavery not that bad, and to foster the belief that everyone is bad so there's no need for any kind of justice. Straightforward arguments based on historical evidence are about as useful as telling antisemites Jews didn't really poison wells with the Black Death. Would that it were not so.
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Jul 28, 2016 12:30
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Brainiac Five posted:The purpose of arguments like "liberal RoboCop revisionism is ruining our schools" is twofold; to render American chattel slavery not that bad, and to foster the belief that everyone is bad so there's no need for any kind of justice. Straightforward arguments based on historical evidence are about as useful as telling antisemites Jews didn't really poison wells with the Black Death. Would that it were not so. Yeah I get you. I see them bringing up the Arab slave trade/Barbary pirates enslaving 3 million Europeans (and honestly i wonder how much truth their are to these claims) in order to downplay it as well. I normally bring up the fact that white Europeans aren't suffering oppression from Barbary pirates as a consequence of slavery, whereas black people are still suffering oppression under whites as a consequence of their enslavement. I think they don't really give a poo poo, though.
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Jul 28, 2016 12:42
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attempting to ascribe a singular common culture to a group as large and nebulous as "white people" is a fool's errand. without at least some vestige of specificity, white culture is quite literally nothing but a dogwhistle. far be it from me to cut honkey any slack, but i feel that slavery is too common a societal institution throughout the ages to be attributed to them specifically. in my opinion, you should celebrate your culture. there's gotta be something good in there, right? such naked self-loathing is unbecoming and self-serving.
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Jul 28, 2016 12:53
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Brainiac Five posted:The purpose of arguments like "liberal RoboCop revisionism is ruining our schools" is twofold; to render American chattel slavery not that bad, and to foster the belief that everyone is bad so there's no need for any kind of justice. Straightforward arguments based on historical evidence are about as useful as telling antisemites Jews didn't really poison wells with the Black Death. Would that it were not so. No, it's to put it into correct historical context and help people realize that yes, American slavery was a terrible institution that never should have started, and went on way too long, but was not historically unprecedented, nor a whole cloth invention of "whites" as was claimed multiple times in this very thread. Also, and I'm not sure myself as I've read a number of different sources all of whom disagree with eachother, but the forced migrations of post WW2 add up to significant numbers, possibly more than the transatlantic slave trade. Here's an article about it, http://chronicle.com/article/The-European-Atrocity-You/132123 It's different, of course, than the transatlantic slave trade, but when you open up the category of 'forced migration' there's a lot of other episodes in history that qualify and have huge numbers as well. As an anecdote, I had a great uncle who was a german jew that somehow ended up in the far reaches of Siberia following WW2, and, as family legend has it, walked to European Russia and later ended up in the US.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:00
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gobbagool posted:No, it's to put it into correct historical context and help people realize that yes, American slavery was a terrible institution that never should have started, and went on way too long, but was not historically unprecedented, nor a whole cloth invention of "whites" as was claimed multiple times in this very thread.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:08
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But at least we can agree that Italian immigrants who came to America in 1910 are complicit in Atlantic slave trade.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:26
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Seriously, what is culture? Some people believe god exists, and it doesn't. Are we sure culture exists? OP, you should get your person to prove culture exists, then prove white culture exists. Once you have that, maybe you can actually measure if it's threatened or not. Or if people should care. Or not care. Whatever.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:33
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Pantsuit posted:Yeah I get you. I see them bringing up the Arab slave trade/Barbary pirates enslaving 3 million Europeans (and honestly i wonder how much truth their are to these claims) in order to downplay it as well. I normally bring up the fact that white Europeans aren't suffering oppression from Barbary pirates as a consequence of slavery, whereas black people are still suffering oppression under whites as a consequence of their enslavement. I think they don't really give a poo poo, though.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:41
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The people making the arguments are normally American though, and are doing it to deflect the oppression and injustice they have brought onto other groups.
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Jul 28, 2016 14:01
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Pantsuit posted:Isn't 'white culture' just the dominant culture in the US/West but we don't see it because we're trained to not notice it and assume it's natural? I've always thought people who say 'whites have no culture' are missing the point. Whatever "white culture" is, it surely is not found anywhere in a mongrel melting pot nation like the US, nor on the swarthy sun-beaten shores of the Mediterranean.
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Jul 28, 2016 14:06
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White culture is institutions that actually work.
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Jul 28, 2016 14:31
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Socialism
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Jul 28, 2016 14:39
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wateroverfire posted:White culture is institutions that actually work. Name them
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Jul 28, 2016 15:01
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steinrokkan posted:But at least we can agree that Italian immigrants who came to America in 1910 are complicit in Atlantic slave trade. Very bohemian of you.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:12
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Nevvy Z posted:Name them Steam. Battlenet. Crunchyroll. Netflix.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:14
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OP, when Americans say "white culture" they mean the culture of whichever subset of working- or middle-class white Americans with which they are most familiar. This allows your small-town, middle-of-nowhere small-christian-sect racist to claim that "white culture" is under threat from those filthy big-city liberals, while, simultaneously, the culture of those same big-city liberals can be the "white culture" that some bleeding-heart relativist is decrying "the West*" trying to force onto the rest of the world. (*The USA, probably the UK, maybe France or Germany on a good day)
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Jul 28, 2016 15:48
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Post-modernism
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Jul 28, 2016 16:10
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Nevvy Z posted:Name them OK edgelord, so we can all make sure we're playing the game by your ruleset, let's you start with naming working institutions from *any* culture that work, because I have a feeling your input to others' suggestions will be simply to tersely dismiss whatever they say. So, Nevvy, let's have it, do you believe that there are any institutions in any culture that work?
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Jul 28, 2016 16:45
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gobbagool posted:OK edgelord, so we can all make sure we're playing the game by your ruleset, let's you start with naming working institutions from *any* culture that work, because I have a feeling your input to others' suggestions will be simply to tersely dismiss whatever they say. So, Nevvy, let's have it, do you believe that there are any institutions in any culture that work? I'm sure many warlords would say patrimonialism and clientelism work out great for them.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:08
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God's chosen people turn out to be whites instead of Hebrews in a stunning upset.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:12
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Nevvy Z posted:Name them Virtually any public or private bureaucracy for starters. Compare to same in latin america and prepare to ROFL.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:35
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wateroverfire posted:Virtually any public or private bureaucracy for starters. Compare to same in latin america and prepare to ROFL. This raises an interesting question: is latin america part of the "white culture"? Being that it was colonized by white people and, to this day, in most places the government and institutions are mostly ruled by white people
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Jul 28, 2016 17:40
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Spain and Portugal are not white, haven't you been paying attention.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:48
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Elias_Maluco posted:This raises an interesting question: is latin america part of the "white culture"? Being that it was colonized by white people and, to this day, in most places the government and institutions are mostly ruled by white people the answer to this one tends to correlate almost perfectly with your answer to the question "was Pinochet just misunderstood"
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Jul 28, 2016 17:52
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Elias_Maluco posted:This raises an interesting question: is latin america part of the "white culture"? Being that it was colonized by white people and, to this day, in most places the government and institutions are mostly ruled by white people Latin American cultures are very different from anything you could call white culture. If they were included the term would have no meaning.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:56
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wateroverfire posted:Latin American cultures are very different from anything you could call white culture. If they were included the term would have no meaning. as opposed to the definitely cohesive and meaningful term that encompasses South Africa, Spain, Germany, and Serbia.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:58
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Is this really such a hard question? In this era of "self identifying" as whatever the hell you want we cant accept someone choosing to belong to a white culture, just because they choose to? Its as if you're saying: BLM: "Stop police murdering black people!" DnD smuglord: "You know, race is a social idea and doesnt really exist. Youre not a black person, so you're safe". Personally, im on the side of the racist patriarchy, whatever we choose to call that. MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 17:59
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Ze Pollack posted:as opposed to the definitely cohesive and meaningful term that encompasses South Africa, Spain, Germany, and Serbia. It wasn't my term? For content: Caring about productivity is white culture.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:04
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wateroverfire posted:It wasn't my term? Yeah everybody else is on CP time huh. e: poo poo I don't even know why I try to bait racists any more. Your orange god is here, everything is out in the open, you'll all be shunned and treated as a strange footnote to history. May your children bury you in a pauper's grave.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:04
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Dazzling Addar posted:in my opinion, you should celebrate your culture. there's gotta be something good in there, right? such naked self-loathing is unbecoming and self-serving. Entirely unironically I'm not sure there's anything I particularly like that we didn't nick off someone else.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:07
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SedanChair posted:Yeah everybody else is on CP time huh. lol. How is being black in spirit working for you?
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Jul 28, 2016 18:08
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wateroverfire posted:It wasn't my term? Nobody cared about crop yields before the White Man descended from Heaven (Europe) and wowed them all so hard a full fifth of the earth's population died.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:08
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wateroverfire posted:Latin American cultures are very different from anything you could call white culture. If they were included the term would have no meaning. The elites here in Brazil would disagree, they consider themselves pretty white and western
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Jul 28, 2016 18:09
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Elias_Maluco posted:The elites here in Brazil would disagree, they consider themselves pretty white and western Here in Chile, too. But in reality they have very little in common with the northern european cultures they look up to.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:13
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OwlFancier posted:Entirely unironically I'm not sure there's anything I particularly like that we didn't nick off someone else. Or alternately, nothing is original. See also, how can something which doesn't exist be constituted of something stolen, unless the stealing didn't happen either. If it did, then it must exist. But seriously, culture doesn't exist.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:13
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Wateroverfire admits his cultural inferiority yet dares to post...
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Jul 28, 2016 18:13
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Pantsuit posted:Also I don't think anybody is claiming that only whites practice slavery, apart from that one troll, but wasn't transactlantic slavery unique simply for its epic scale and brutality? It was the biggest forced migration in human history after all. aside from the scale and brutality ,the biggest problem with early modern transatlantic chattel slavery is that it dehumanized slaves to a never before seen degree and reduced them to the status of livestock / a commodity rather than "a person who i can tell to do things but still a person with (some) rights and feelings and stuff" and was based largely along racial lines rather than class lines. the majority of african slaves of this era were bought and worked to death like disposable, replacable parts on caribbean/south american sugar plantations. comparatively north america got a much smaller proportion of slaves and there wasn't an economic incentive to work them literally until they dropped dead in the cane fields. you have to go back to rome to find another example of the death of slaves being one of the terms of their enslavement
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Jul 28, 2016 18:14
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