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Rorac
Aug 19, 2011



Kind of repeating the video commentators on Sonic Mania, but that is absolutely, extremely my poo poo. Every 2d sonic game after S3&K has just felt wrong physically/mechanically. The friction on speeding up/slowing down was off, the jumping never felt quite right, the degree of speed gained from spin dashing, Sonic 1-3 had IMO basically ideal platforming controls for me where the movement was exactly slippery enough for the speeds you could get, and every game since then has missed the mark some way or another. If the physics actually are Genesis Sonic physics, then gently caress. This is the game I've been waiting 20 goddamn years for.



Hilariously, I've told a few friends about the less than stellar sonic games over the past decade or so, and said that if Sega just made a proper HD Sonic 1-3 without loving with the physics or the core mechanics, they have people sucking dick to get their hands on it. Based on what I've heard, I feel very vindicated.

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Robotnik Nudes
Jul 8, 2013

do you want to touch
my pingas


Rorac posted:

Kind of repeating the video commentators on Sonic Mania, but that is absolutely, extremely my poo poo. Every 2d sonic game after S3&K has just felt wrong physically/mechanically. The friction on speeding up/slowing down was off, the jumping never felt quite right, the degree of speed gained from spin dashing, Sonic 1-3 had IMO basically ideal platforming controls for me where the movement was exactly slippery enough for the speeds you could get, and every game since then has missed the mark some way or another. If the physics actually are Genesis Sonic physics, then gently caress. This is the game I've been waiting 20 goddamn years for.



Hilariously, I've told a few friends about the less than stellar sonic games over the past decade or so, and said that if Sega just made a proper HD Sonic 1-3 without loving with the physics or the core mechanics, they have people sucking dick to get their hands on it. Based on what I've heard, I feel very vindicated.

Sonic 3's controls are tight as hell. As a homeschooled kid with not many games I mastered it.

I stopped playing Sonkc or really any games for years. A friend was over at my house and noticed my Sega Genesis in the closet and asked to borrow it. I couldn't find my Sonic 3 cart so he was stuck with just Sonic and Knuckles. A couple weeks later I swung by his house late one night and fucker was stuck on act 1 of Flying Battery Zone. I hadn't even touched the game for years but asked if I could give it a whirl. For old times sake.

Less than an hour later I was at the Death Egg Zone with like 20 lives and most of the emeralds without dying once.

Sonic 3 and Knuckles is part of my muscle memory and if you put a controller in my hand and played the music ( for timing) I could probably visualize it in my head well enough to do the button presses to beat it. Part of that was youthful isolation with few games, but even more, that game is just so tight and well built. It's my favorite game ever. The satisfaction of the twitch response and fast gaming still gets to me.

Also it's weird to see critics who are bad at Sonic talking poo poo about speed and trying to
Play up that it's REALLY precise platforming with bursts of speed. Mother fucker, if you are playing Sonic RIGHT then you're going fast WHILE doing precise platforming. I realize that's hard at first, but 2D Sonic is from an era where there were just less games and replay ability was more
Important, especially when save states were a new fancy feature. Sonic has more in common in ways with Dark Souls and the reliance on trial and error and memorization to become a blue idiot wind deity than with Mario.

I loving love Sonic 3.

Sonic CD too. Really all the classics.

Also Sonic Adventure is piss garbage but Sonic Adventure 2 is hella respectable. Sonic Adventure doesn't have anything on City Escape or White Jungle.

Sonic Colors good. Generations good. My last ex had a Wii U and Lost Worlds and I kept trying to get into it but there's something inherently anti-Sonic about it I can't quite
Put by finger on but that just kept repelling me from it. I can't say it's a bad game, but I didn't think it was a good SONIC game.

But I'ma bust a nut over Sonic Mania. poo poo so dank.

LOCUST FART HELL
Mar 8, 2007



Grimey Drawer

#7 Keys to the Ruin Modern - Marvin Valentin ft. Joshua Taipale
Sonic Adventure 2 - Pyramid Cave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya4H6FXz4Ec

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook

Robotnik Nudes posted:

Also it's weird to see critics who are bad at Sonic talking poo poo about speed and trying to
Play up that it's REALLY precise platforming with bursts of speed. Mother fucker, if you are playing Sonic RIGHT then you're going fast WHILE doing precise platforming. I realize that's hard at first, but 2D Sonic is from an era where there were just less games and replay ability was more
Important, especially when save states were a new fancy feature. Sonic has more in common in ways with Dark Souls and the reliance on trial and error and memorization to become a blue idiot wind deity than with Mario.

1. That's not usually meant as a criticism (of the old games, when used as a criticism it's usually more of like Adventure).
2. The argument is actually that Sonic uses speed as a reward, which is still true. If you know when to jump and spin dash the game rewards you with sections where you can go extremely quickly, and even if you don't know where, the game will often reward you after difficult sections with some loops and straightaways (at least until you mess up a little later), Chemical Plant is a good example of this, you can pretty much always hit that section where you outrun the screen scroll. Green Hill in Generations is actually a pretty good example of the former, you can trash that level with only a handful of extremely, extremely precise button presses and you go extremely quickly as if the level were a straightaway.

The contrast is more to say that older Sonic games had two modes, one where you're doing well and moving quickly (95% of the time), and one where you ended up on a lower path and have to do precision platforming. This is supposed to contrast with the later games where you're mostly either moving quickly, dead, or occasionally in some forced slow section you can't easily bypass. The thing that's usually pointed out is that Sonic and Mario kind of switched level designs in 2D and 3D, Sonic had very few death pits, but you were "punished" by being put on a lower path with more forced platforming and waiting, while Mario was largely straight levels with obstacles and death pits. 3D Sonics are largely straightaways with obstacles and death pits, while 3D Marios are more exploratory and it's easier to hamper yourself than it is to die (until 3D Land/World at least which took a more 2D Mario philosophy).

Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at Jul 30, 2016 around 12:42

URL grey tea
Jun 1, 2004

IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!


Agent Escalus posted:

The Mania trailer gave me a Freedom Planet vibe - and anyone who's played it knows it is EXACTLY what the Saturn needed but never got. (Sure, Astal looked great, but...) Sega's total dropping of the ball with the X-treme project is a big wave in an ocean of boneheaded moves they made from '95 onward. Seriously, go download the FP demo; it might have originally started off as a fan-made Sonic game but it really did take off and become something so much better in its own right,

That reminds me, I have a Freedom Planet WiiU key from Humble Bundle since I already owned it.

B0L7KQ9D2VS843HT

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003



My ideal next game after Mania would basically be to take the same engine and bring it up to high-res sprites a la Rayman Origins.

The slightly abstract design style of sonic makes it ideal for vectorised art, really.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at Jul 30, 2016 around 13:07

Rorac
Aug 19, 2011



Robotnik Nudes posted:

Sonic 3's controls are tight as hell. As a homeschooled kid with not many games I mastered it.

I stopped playing Sonkc or really any games for years. A friend was over at my house and noticed my Sega Genesis in the closet and asked to borrow it. I couldn't find my Sonic 3 cart so he was stuck with just Sonic and Knuckles. A couple weeks later I swung by his house late one night and fucker was stuck on act 1 of Flying Battery Zone. I hadn't even touched the game for years but asked if I could give it a whirl. For old times sake.

Less than an hour later I was at the Death Egg Zone with like 20 lives and most of the emeralds without dying once.

Sonic 3 and Knuckles is part of my muscle memory and if you put a controller in my hand and played the music ( for timing) I could probably visualize it in my head well enough to do the button presses to beat it. Part of that was youthful isolation with few games, but even more, that game is just so tight and well built. It's my favorite game ever. The satisfaction of the twitch response and fast gaming still gets to me.

Also it's weird to see critics who are bad at Sonic talking poo poo about speed and trying to
Play up that it's REALLY precise platforming with bursts of speed. Mother fucker, if you are playing Sonic RIGHT then you're going fast WHILE doing precise platforming. I realize that's hard at first, but 2D Sonic is from an era where there were just less games and replay ability was more
Important, especially when save states were a new fancy feature. Sonic has more in common in ways with Dark Souls and the reliance on trial and error and memorization to become a blue idiot wind deity than with Mario.

I agree with everything (and outside of homeschooling, am in the same boat. Sonic 3 was my first game ever, and by god that's probably still my #1 game by play time), and while I use the term 'slippery' to refer to his screeching stops*, I do agree that the controls are perfectly tight as they should be. I mean, he takes time to slow down but it's a very reasonable amount of time considering how fast you can go, and the controls and physics of the game allows you to perform tricks to help you out. For example, jumping at the right time on a loop will give you a quick speed burst in S3 and I think in S2, or using well placed enemies or monitors to get extra height or jump distance.


gently caress, I think I'm gonna go play S3&K again for some nostalgia.




*compare to say, Classic Megaman. You've got perfect friction on the ground, but you never really move fast enough for stopping to take more time than 'instantly'. Classic Sonic is comparatively slippery, but it's that sweet spot where he doesn't stop on a dime nor slide excessively.

YoshiOfYellow
Aug 21, 2015

Humanity is ~beautiful~


These childhood stories are nice to see.

My first was actually Sonic 2 and while I'm probably rusty as all hell at it I remember being a pro at that game. For some reason Hill Top Zone was always my favorite. Metropolis Zone was Actual Hell. loving mantises.

beep by grandpa
May 5, 2004



One of my fav things about S3&K is how it all just flows together from act to act. I really feel like I'm progressing and the entire thing feels like a big giant adventure, I always feel super pumped when the "story" kicks in about halfway through Lava Reef Zone.

Sonic 2, which I've always felt isn't nearly as good as S3&K feels to me like "okay you beat this level, now play this level". To this day I can never remember what order Oil Ocean, Mystic Cave and Hill Top Zones come in at.

YoshiOfYellow
Aug 21, 2015

Humanity is ~beautiful~


beep by grandpa posted:

One of my fav things about S3&K is how it all just flows together from act to act. I really feel like I'm progressing and the entire thing feels like a big giant adventure, I always feel super pumped when the "story" kicks in about halfway through Lava Reef Zone.

Sonic 2, which I've always felt isn't nearly as good as S3&K feels to me like "okay you beat this level, now play this level". To this day I can never remember what order Oil Ocean, Mystic Cave and Hill Top Zones come in at.

Hill Top -> Mystic Cave -> Oil Ocean -> Metropolis

Rorac
Aug 19, 2011



beep by grandpa posted:

One of my fav things about S3&K is how it all just flows together from act to act. I really feel like I'm progressing and the entire thing feels like a big giant adventure, I always feel super pumped when the "story" kicks in about halfway through Lava Reef Zone.

Sonic 2, which I've always felt isn't nearly as good as S3&K feels to me like "okay you beat this level, now play this level". To this day I can never remember what order Oil Ocean, Mystic Cave and Hill Top Zones come in at.


For me, I felt like S2 was a pretty alright game, but held back by Oil Ocean and Hill Top. Oil Ocean, for where it appeared, always seemed like just a weak-ish stage in general; impossible to die due to drowning or bottomless pit(well, ok, not impossible but you have to let it happen on purpose), but had a comparatively high amount of careful play required due to tons of hazards and fewer really fast area (as well as autoplaying sections), while Hill Top was a bunch of hurry up and wait areas. Chemical Plant always felt like a better done Oil Ocean zone, and Mystic Cave a better Hill Top.


Also Oil Ocean had those seahorse looking fucks.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012



SONIC

MANIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014



Robotnik Nudes posted:

Sonic 3's controls are tight as hell. As a homeschooled kid with not many games I mastered it.

I stopped playing Sonkc or really any games for years. A friend was over at my house and noticed my Sega Genesis in the closet and asked to borrow it. I couldn't find my Sonic 3 cart so he was stuck with just Sonic and Knuckles. A couple weeks later I swung by his house late one night and fucker was stuck on act 1 of Flying Battery Zone. I hadn't even touched the game for years but asked if I could give it a whirl. For old times sake.

Less than an hour later I was at the Death Egg Zone with like 20 lives and most of the emeralds without dying once.

Sonic 3 and Knuckles is part of my muscle memory and if you put a controller in my hand and played the music ( for timing) I could probably visualize it in my head well enough to do the button presses to beat it. Part of that was youthful isolation with few games, but even more, that game is just so tight and well built. It's my favorite game ever. The satisfaction of the twitch response and fast gaming still gets to me.

lol that reminds me i went over a friend's house and he had all sorts of old consoles hooked up including a genesis. he popped in sonic 2 for me (hadn't played it in literally twenty years) and i beat it with like 20 continues and 30 something lives.

i had never actually beat it on the genesis before.

MikeJF posted:

My ideal next game after Mania would basically be to take the same engine and bring it up to high-res sprites a la Rayman Origins.

The slightly abstract design style of sonic makes it ideal for vectorised art, really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zILpjFqlOak

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008



Gravy Boat 2k

Hill Top Zone kicks rear end cause it has a theme that falls in rhythm with the little descending lifts you take over the zone. Honestly, the song remains one of my all time favorites.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010

You see this post?

It's the Gosh Darn APOCALYPSE, baby!

WOO!

Macaluso posted:

I had to look that poster up and make sure the man in the suit at the top wasn't a Photoshop. Who is that guy

I can't tell if that's an intentional parody or just someone's deviantart.


I remember seeing somewhere on SA that there was a character called something like Eclipise the Death but that might have been a fever dream.

Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at Jul 30, 2016 around 21:15

Stink Terios
Oct 17, 2012


Anatharon posted:

I can't tell if that's an intentional parody or just someone's deviantart.


I remember seeing somewhere on SA that there was a character called something like Eclipise the Death but that might have been a fever dream.

Neither.
It's an entirely serious product by a comic industry veteran.

Also Eclipse the Darkling is post-reboot so he's a good character.

VikingofRock
Aug 24, 2008


Slippery Tilde

Okay I just watched the Sonic Mania trailer and gameplay video and this looks awesome. The controls look tight, the weird floatiness from later games seems gone, and the awkward homing double jump is gone too! This is pretty much everything I want in a new Sonic game.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013



Robotnik Nudes posted:

Also Sonic Adventure is piss garbage but Sonic Adventure 2 is hella respectable. Sonic Adventure doesn't have anything on City Escape or White Jungle.

True, but Radical Highway has nothing on Speed Highway.

While Adventure 2 is a better put together game, I just hate the way Sonic and Shadow move. They feel janky and stilted. In Adventure 1, Sonic has a smooth, bouncy gait and no 3D game before or since has captured that feeling for Sonic. Heroes is slidy as poo poo, '06 has no sense of acceleration or inertia, the Unleashed era is a whole different kettle of fish.

beep by grandpa
May 5, 2004



I'm just thinking about my favorite shot from that george weidman video I linked earlier



And how much it reminded me of this bullshit (but in our case it's the complete opposite)

Augus
Mar 9, 2015






Robotnik Nudes posted:

Also Sonic Adventure is piss garbage but Sonic Adventure 2 is hella respectable
It's actually the other way around. Search your heart, you know it to be true.

YoshiOfYellow
Aug 21, 2015

Humanity is ~beautiful~


Augus posted:

It's actually the other way around. Search your heart, you know it to be true.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015







I see absolutely nothing wrong with this picture.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014



fellas fellas....they're BOTH bad.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003

Unleash the Elements.


Robotnik Nudes posted:

I do too. I got it from banging an Amy Rose cosplayer at a Con. Flares up every so often but it goes away fast.

I can't let this post go without some appreciation

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



Sonic CD USA soundtrack is honestly so loving amazing

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Was that a scumslip?!


Grimey Drawer

Both sonic adventures are pretty terrible BUT the chaos save those titles so it makes up for it

Dehry
Aug 21, 2009


Grimey Drawer

Chibs posted:

So y'all know about Sonic X-Treme, but did you forget about Sonic EXTREME?

https://twitter.com/sebmal/status/758730280693698561

Lovin that soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRgcy3FZb00

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?li...otimrlI6_56BQQF

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014



The REAL Goobusters posted:

Sonic CD USA soundtrack is honestly so loving amazing

i'm the YEAH!s in the good future of palmtree panic.

F. Lobot
Jul 6, 2010

I'm not Sanji.
I'm my original character,
YONJI.

Another year, another headscratching remix of Silver's theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3_rG36F7X8

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook

URL grey tea posted:

That reminds me, I have a Freedom Planet WiiU key from Humble Bundle since I already owned it.

B0L7KQ9D2VS843HT

Speaking of Freedom Planet, weren't they going to add two new playable characters as DLC? Whatever happened to that?

Augus
Mar 9, 2015






The REAL Goobusters posted:

Sonic CD USA soundtrack is honestly so loving amazing

I honestly can't get into it, the JP soundtrack just seems better in every way.

Robotnik Nudes
Jul 8, 2013

do you want to touch
my pingas


Augus posted:

I honestly can't get into it, the JP soundtrack just seems better in every way.

I've been replaying it on my phone and switching between soundtracks. I like the JP one maybe a little better but they're both really excellent. Toot Toot Sanic Warrior is a better intro but Sonic boom is a better end movie song. Tidal Tempest present is amazing in both but I think the US one has a slight advantage. But Palmtree Panic is JP all the way.

Nice thing about playing Sonic CD nowadays is you don't have to limit yourself and can enjoy the excellent music in both versions and switch between them at will.

LOCUST FART HELL
Mar 8, 2007



Grimey Drawer

#8 Empyrean Station - General Offensive
Sonic & Knuckles - Flying Battery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P7Ae-0bfd4

Frankston
Jul 27, 2010



LOCUST FART HELL posted:

#8 Empyrean Station - General Offensive
Sonic & Knuckles - Flying Battery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P7Ae-0bfd4

This sucks, it's far too slow for a Flying Battery song.

You know what doesn't suck? Sonic Mania. Gimme that poo poo already.

beep by grandpa
May 5, 2004



Robotnik Nudes posted:

Sonic boom is a better end movie song.

Agreed, this moment here with the 2011 taxman release was one of the coolest moments ever playing a sonic game cause I didn't expect this. Haha I actually shushed someone I had over and was talking to at the time I first beat this when that guitar wound up cause I was just like what the fuckkkk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=susEZK6kc7Y#t=190s

El Mido
Feb 22, 2011


It really sucks that they could only get the karaoke version of Cosmic Eternity for the 2011 port. Spencer Nielsen's Sega CD buttrock is no substitute for TELEPORTATION YEAH

beep by grandpa
May 5, 2004



Jfc if Sonic CD US's smooth, chill as hell sonic boom mix that's just a bunch of ladies singing to some sick bass lines is considered BUTTROCK now because there's an electric guitar in it then it's time for that stupid, stupid term to die

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

Someone call the Chancellery Guard. Commander Maxil's out of uniform. AGAIN.

The ending version of Sonic Boom is loving spectacular.

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook

Sonic Boom's central thesis is that only Tails is strong, because he can fly.

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Overbite
Jan 24, 2004



TOOT TOOT SONIC WARRIOR

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