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elf help book
Aug 5, 2004

Though the battle might be endless, I will never give up
A "Generations 2" should include a Generations 1 level

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MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




Augus posted:

nintendo 64 is a cartridge-based system and emulation for it is nowhere near as good as GCN or Wii
it's just that some consoles are weirder and more complicated than others, nothing to do with cartridges vs discs

Yeah. A few factors in play: one, the gamecube/wii being RISC PowerPC, a very well understood and documented thing, while the N64 was a custom chip. But I think even more important was that N64 had a whole buttload of different emulators developed by different people, whereas the GCN/Wii scene was extremely focused on a single open-source project that everyone poured their effort into from very early on and just refined and refined. And of course, for the Wii, it being essentially an uprated version of the Gamecube architecture gave them a huge head start and also allowed them to consolidate development efforts even further, since at this point they're basically able to develop two generations of emulator in one.

Really, Dolphin's an amazing and incredibly refined program - the Ubershader solution is mindblowing from a programming point of view.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




ArfJason posted:

that looks surprisingly decent

The guy did the same thing to Sonic heroes. All textures auto-upscaled with gigapixel, just a bit of manual tweaking on the playable character cubemaps, and toss a few custom dolphin postprocessing shaders on top (SSAO and DoF):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9fD5OrwVgI

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Sep 16, 2020

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
Welcome back cybersh- I mean beep by grandpa.

PlasticAutomaton
Nov 12, 2016

Artoria Pendonut


...Not quite sure why you would want to go through all that trouble just to play Sonic Heroes again. Heroes is by far the worst of the Gamecube Era Sonics, and I'm including Shadow in that. At least Shadow is an entertaining train wreck. Heroes might be one of the most painfully drawn out and flat out dull games in the entire franchise, and god help you if you play as Team Chaotix or Dark, in which every stage takes 15+ minutes. I would actually call it the worst "main game" in the franchise if the legend that is Sonic 06 didn't exist.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

That's unfair, playing sonic 2006 is actually a ton of fun if you're a little intoxicated and with friends

Heroes is unsalvageable

Skeletome
Feb 4, 2011

Tell them about the tournament!

I think heroes could have been salvageable, when you get into a groove switching between characters it almost becomes fun

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




Skeletome posted:

I think heroes could have been salvageable, when you get into a groove switching between characters it almost becomes fun

The eternal curse of basically every 3D sonic game is that if they spent a few more months polishing the basic movement and controls and interactions they could be an order of magnitude better.

I mentioned before that with Mario 64 Miyamoto literally spent months doing nothing but chasing a rabbit around a maze to hone the controls to precision. Another anecdote just surfaced about how when he first played Breath of the Wild the team were expecting him to explore but the very first thing he did was spend hours literally within a a few metres of the start of the game just climbing trees and rocks and jumping off and running in circles, because he knows the most important basic element is movement and he wanted to know that climbing a tree was fun.

Sonic, it seems to me like they just timebox getting the engine done and the basic game mechanics done and then move on, instead of realising that you have to get that right more than anything else and iterating over and over.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Sep 16, 2020

Homora Gaykemi
Apr 30, 2020

by Fluffdaddy

ninjewtsu posted:

Heroes is unsalvageable

Putting the game aside and just listening to the Vocal Traxx™ salvages it

Skeletome posted:

I think heroes could have been salvageable, when you get into a groove switching between characters it almost becomes fun

I think the team concept could've been a fun modernisation of the classic series idea of the characters having different abilities that open up different routes through the stages if it had been in a better game

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
I guess for better or worse, Advance 3 does a kinda similar thing.

Skeletome
Feb 4, 2011

Tell them about the tournament!

MikeJF posted:

The eternal curse of basically every 3D sonic game is that if they spent a few more months polishing the basic movement and controls and interactions they could be an order of magnitude better.

I mentioned before that with Mario 64 Miyamoto literally spent months doing nothing but chasing a rabbit around a maze to hone the controls to precision. Another anecdote just surfaced about how when he first played Breath of the Wild the team were expecting him to explore but the very first thing he did was spend hours literally within a a few metres of the start of the game just climbing trees and rocks and jumping off and running in circles, because he knows the most important basic element is movement and he wanted to know that climbing a tree was fun.

Sonic, it seems to me like they just timebox getting the engine done and the basic game mechanics done and then move on, instead of realising that you have to get that right more than anything else and iterating over and over.

Completely spot on. I have a soft spot for the 3d games but I don't think the movement (even in sa1/2) is fun on its own

Project Hero fills that itch- even in that bland sandbox you can have a blast moving around

Stink Terios
Oct 17, 2012


Since we're talking about Heroes's movement, isn't the deal with it that it's the same as SA2, but with acceleration doubled? Like, the ONLY change?

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010

Fully open-world versions of South Island, the Floating Island, Little Planet, the Egg Carrier and the Space Colony ARK. Made by literally anyone but Sonic Team.

beep by grandpa
May 5, 2004

For years i've thought the biggest thing they could they do ever do to improve Heroes is eliminate the character switch "Wheel" and make it so you are always sonic/speed by default an power/flight would be "utility" buttons so hold L trigger or something would switch to knuckles/power only while you were holding the button down, then back to sonic whenever you let it go, same with Tails/flight with the R trigger (or a toggle so pressing L would switch to power, then pressing L again would switch back to Sonic).

The reasoning being to me it's a sonic/speed game at heart and you're only the other chars for their utility for a few seconds at a time and idk about you guys but since the "char switch" buttons were STUPIDLY rotations and not static (worst decision in the entire game imo) I would just be spin the sonic wheel round n round til I landed on who I wanted, breaking the flow constantly since I never memorized them. The char switch was *never* fun and them being held-buttons/static switch buttons would significantly improve things for me

beep by grandpa
May 5, 2004

Another improvement to sonic heroes I have even considered commissioning a modder to do for me is editing Vector's animation during team chaotix's level clear screen so that after Espio knocks him over, he lay motionless on the ground and never gets up lol

Timestamp 8:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3-pWI5cF30&t=515s

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


They fixed the character switching ability in just that way for Forces, and it was one of the few things in that game that really worked.

I would love for the next game to develop the idea properly, with levels being entirely composed of team-up levels with a variety of characters to mix and match and corresponding character actions, and I guess Sonic would be mandatory to keep his abilities constant throughout levels. A Heroes sequel that keeps a fixed team of three but no manual switching and a single control scheme would also be cool.

e: If anyone had the Heroes source code then it should be a relatively do-able fix, to free up X/Y from switching and remove Sonic's useless moving spindash... thing, and simply put the other character abilities on fixed buttons, then basically snap them to Sonic's location when pressed. I don't think that's possible without the source code though.

Doctor_Fruitbat fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Sep 16, 2020

Evil Eagle
Nov 5, 2009

Character swapping works fine and giving every move in the game its own button sounds extremely convoluted

Putting the other characters on the shoulder buttons would be fine I guess but at the end of the day you're just holding a button rather than pressing it. Is it really that hard to remember which button swaps to which character? I mean they all shout stuff like "leave it to me" every time you swap

At the end of the day it's Sonic Heroes so who cares but the controls aren't really the issue with that game

Procrastine
Mar 30, 2011


Without character switching the fast team blast glitch wouldn't exist and I'd have to fight the helmet robots properly and gently caress That

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
If I ever really need to sleep I just try to watch a full Super Hard Mode runthrough. Knocks me right out. The game is fifteen minutes of content spread across infinity, punctuated by five voicelines repeated forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLZfD-OvB0w

Skeletome
Feb 4, 2011

Tell them about the tournament!

poo poo


rock



unh

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008
Just wanted to give a shout out to cybershell and his return. Loving all the videos out so far

Heran Bago
Aug 18, 2006



Hey Cybershell, are you Acid Police?

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
https://www.siliconera.com/balan-wonderworld-isle-of-tims-sounds-a-little-like-a-chao-garden/

Well

Motto
Aug 3, 2013

Speaking of Yuji Naka games, Rodea the Sky Soldier is getting delisted soon. The digital versions weren't the ones he worked on in the first place so no big loss, but what a mess the handling of that game was to the end.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006

I just rewatched the Cybershell video about Bark, Bean, and Fang and it ends on a hilarious note.

He says that Ray and Mighty don't show up in Sonic Mania and tells them to get hosed. :v:

Hitlersaurus Christ
Oct 14, 2005


quote:

Tim Garden

beep by grandpa
May 5, 2004

*setting my Steam friends' status to Invisible before launching sonic 4 ep 2*

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


https://twitter.com/reiley/status/1307421813455155205

Evil Eagle
Nov 5, 2009

beep by grandpa posted:

*setting my Steam friends' status to Invisible before launching sonic 4 ep 2*

Always knew you were a coward

Skeletome
Feb 4, 2011

Tell them about the tournament!

ep 2 isn't even THAT bad. its not good, but there's a wide spectrum of quality in sonic games

Anyone tried sonic GT?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUyW8jJQawE

I've played about 10 hours of it, it's really fun. The levels are huge and great for speedrunning. The drop dash feels phenomenal and there's some real momentum-based speed. Can be a little janky and the voice acting is HORRID but overall I'm really impressed with it

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
It's impressive to be sure but the levels are..way the gently caress too big and it's hard to know if you're going in the right direction outside of the very occasional signpost.

Also it's super slippery.

Skeletome
Feb 4, 2011

Tell them about the tournament!

Felt the same initially, but I'm surprised at how well I can remember them from frequent runs

Some of the race challenges are fun.

Super sonic is in, and his hard mode challenge has you completing levels in under a minute or you die. Pretty certain one level is impossible without glitching, but the rest are amazing to try for

Not sure about it feeling slippery, I think the drop dash and really good air controls make up for that

ArfJason
Sep 5, 2011
id be down to try that

Heran Bago
Aug 18, 2006



Motto posted:

Speaking of Yuji Naka games, Rodea the Sky Soldier is getting delisted soon. The digital versions weren't the ones he worked on in the first place so no big loss, but what a mess the handling of that game was to the end.

Rodea was so neat on Wii with the flying anywhere system. I just couldn't get over this dumb sound effect it made every time you lock on to a point.

Anyone know of a hack or cheat to remove that? I'd slip $20 to anyone who makes or made such a thing. :toxx: me on it.

Hikaki
Oct 11, 2005
Motherfucking Fujitsu Heavy Industries

Skeletome posted:

ep 2 isn't even THAT bad. its not good, but there's a wide spectrum of quality in sonic games

Anyone tried sonic GT?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUyW8jJQawE

I've played about 10 hours of it, it's really fun. The levels are huge and great for speedrunning. The drop dash feels phenomenal and there's some real momentum-based speed. Can be a little janky and the voice acting is HORRID but overall I'm really impressed with it

Sonic GT has proven to me that modern Sonic can actually be good. I'm in shock right now.

ArfJason
Sep 5, 2011
lol last week i saw a trailer for a game which reminded me of lets tap, lets tap, future tapping game.

Skeletome
Feb 4, 2011

Tell them about the tournament!

Hikaki posted:

Sonic GT has proven to me that modern Sonic can actually be good. I'm in shock right now.

and not a dash pad in sight!

Pants Donkey
Nov 13, 2011

The Drop Dash is merely a dash pad on demand

Hikaki
Oct 11, 2005
Motherfucking Fujitsu Heavy Industries

Pants Donkey posted:

The Drop Dash is merely a dash pad on demand

I think it's different because the way they implemented it (it charges while you're airborne), the drop dash still follows the basic idea of converting potential energy to kinetic energy. I would more call it a "slope on demand" because they both require height to be effective at increasing your speed. This is different from a dash pad, which is just a dumb speed button.

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Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5qUvOosL-s

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