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Flint_Paper posted:Folks I suck so so bad at Mania's special stage. So bad. I will never see super sonic and that pains me. I have played the blue sphere stage in front of a live paying audience and this failure...it kills me. First priority is getting the blue spheres until you achieve "fast". Then B-Line it to the UFO, getting rings only when convenient or necessary. Jump and hold directions for sharp turns every chance you get. With some practice, they get pretty easy up until the last few in mania mode, which are still quite doable. Or you can try to master the speedrun strats to get them in the first few seconds.
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Oct 16, 2020 09:46
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What are y'alls thoughts on difficulty in Sonic games? What makes for good difficulty in Sonic games? Cause I was just thinking about difficulty in platformers, and in particular Mario powerups vs. Sonic rings, and how with Mario powerups you have a pretty hard limit on how many times you can get hit, and making to a difficult section with a powerup can make a big difference. But with Sonic rings, you can kinda just keep picking them back up, or you don't have to go far to find more - it ends up being a very forgiving system and it kind of feels like it makes it hard to have more granular difficulty in Sonic games since you almost need to jump to instant kill effects to provide proper danger. I think of this partially because I think back to Sonic Advance 2, where the difficulty kinda just skyrockets around Sky Canyon with the introductions of bottomless pits you need to use a trick to clear - unless you've got a quick reflex or are in tune with the game's level design they'll probably get you. Or stuff like Sonic 2's Death Egg, where you need to do 2 boss fights without any rings. Middle ground difficult kinda seems hard to find in Sonic since it just becomes "well I got hit a bunch but I still beat it so whatever"? Not saying thats not acceptable, it just very different from most other platformers. I also think about Titan Monarch Act 2 - which is kinda tricky on it's own, but it felt like a lot of players (and myself) ran into the time limit on their first or early goes. Upon reflection, I kind of feel like this might be an interesting option for creating difficulty in a Sonic game, kinda shifting away from making the level more deadly, to pressuring the player to learn the level and get through it more quickly. (Granted, it can kind of make for unsatisfying first playthroughs, having to take ten minutes to fail, or just generally being punished for exploring or taking your time.)
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Oct 16, 2020 21:34
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sonic 2 final gauntlet still feels like the hardest part of any of the 2d games for me even tho at this point its entirely bcos i couldnt beat it as a kid and its just psychological lol
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Oct 16, 2020 22:23
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as someone who grew up with srb2 i remember when they patched in like 1.09 that picking up the same rings over and over would make them fade out faster, and then the lava stages having the rings fall through the lava but you walking on top of it. so i guess itd be cool to have that kind of environmental poo poo that could gently caress with your rings im thinking maybe like a magnetic prop that sucks them in so you're left with 2 or 3 if youre quick enough. or a badnik that vaccuums them up
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Oct 17, 2020 00:36
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Stux posted:sonic 2 final gauntlet still feels like the hardest part of any of the 2d games for me even tho at this point its entirely bcos i couldnt beat it as a kid and its just psychological lol I could never get over the inordinate pressure of having 0 rings even now. Probably the same reason I can never get past the first boss in the Game Gear Sonic 2.
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Oct 17, 2020 01:01
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Electric Phantasm posted:I could never get over the inordinate pressure of having 0 rings even now. Probably the same reason I can never get past the first boss in the Game Gear Sonic 2. Oh no, it wasn't just that. That boss was Super Bullshit 64, and would be even with three rings and a checkpoint.
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Oct 17, 2020 03:22
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I dont think Sonic should be challenging to complete, it should be challenging to master The rings are a great example - it's a forgiving system, but they're tied to your score and ability to go into special stages It feels like a natural extension of sega's arcade design
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Oct 17, 2020 11:34
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I only find specific bosses in Sonic to be difficult, namely Sonic 2 and Death Egg, but that’s more because I loving hate being forced to tackle bosses consecutively as it feels like artificial difficulty. I also never beat Rush’s final boss (not the Super Sonic one) as that one has some tough patterns. A lot of people found Mania hard in just the regular play. Like, I was shocked that people were complaining about game overs when I was sitting on 40+ lives like a dragon hoard.
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Oct 17, 2020 15:46
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Mania's bosses were harder on average than typical bosses from 1-3. I thought they were pretty clever at working around some limitations with the Sonic format. Because of the ring system it's tough to make a boss "just right". Usually they are trivial as long as you can hang on to a ring. So to make it hard they either introduce falling deaths (Sonic 3&K) or just don't allow rings (Sonic 2). That said, Mania was not a hard game. The hardest boss I can think of (Press Garden?) would have been one of the easier bosses in Freedom Planet.
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Oct 17, 2020 16:56
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i do like the idea of eggman bringing along a ring vacuum or something for boss fights, maybe hitting it could release rings it's taken sonic difficulty hasn't ever really manifested via bosses for me, the only bad ones are stuff like chemical plant where you can get owned by tails or anything in game gear 2. the worst kind of difficulty imo comes from blind gotchas you could only ever react to if you're playing at 25% speed. or those pipes the gg games love where you blindly choose routes and four options drop you into spikes and one leads you to another pipe maze both are common in game gear 2
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Oct 17, 2020 18:30
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The Biolizard in Adventure 2 was pretty tough - particularly since it introduced a new mechanic at the end of the fight which negated the ability to just tank hits.
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Oct 17, 2020 18:38
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Sonic levels shouldn't be hard after the 2nd or 3rd run. Getting all the red rings and finding all the secret areas should be.
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Oct 17, 2020 20:14
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I agree with the sentiment that the challenge should lie in routing and mastery, and that the difficulty for an initial run through a level should not be too prohibitive.
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Oct 17, 2020 21:18
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Sonic is definitely more akin to a racing or music game where it’s all about perfecting a run through a stage.
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Oct 17, 2020 22:32
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I like bosses not being too tough, especially sub bosses, because they're mostly a quick and light way of bookending levels. I'm not sure whether tough bosses would particularly work for Sonic, he's got a lot of weight and takes a while to accelerate relative to other platformers, so tough, precise bosses would be really hard to balance.
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Oct 17, 2020 22:42
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Pants Donkey posted:Sonic is definitely more akin to a racing or music game where it’s all about perfecting a run through a stage.
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Oct 17, 2020 23:12
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Pants Donkey posted:Sonic is definitely more akin to a racing or music game where it’s all about perfecting a run through a stage. Honestly, a Theatrhythm-style rhythm game for Sonic would own
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Oct 17, 2020 23:26
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Pants Donkey posted:Sonic is definitely more akin to a racing or music game where it’s all about perfecting a run through a stage. I feel like the Generations Modern Sonic/Boost Gameplay really kinda captures that particularly.
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Oct 17, 2020 23:54
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ArfJason posted:doing advance sprite edits and gifs was my childhood Hitlersaurus Christ posted:What was your fan character’s name Behold, the namesake of my "Zonekeeper" username that I've been using on the internet for 21 goddamned years:  So many wasted hours in MSpaint.
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Oct 18, 2020 00:57
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Oxyclean posted:I feel like the Generations Modern Sonic/Boost Gameplay really kinda captures that particularly. 100% what a great fuckin game
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Oct 18, 2020 00:59
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the thing that grinds my nuts into paste is that if i want to play something like modern sonic you have like 4 games and even then its just a fraction of those and one of those is forces. its like how when dmc released if you wanted to play something like dmc you had to replay dmc. only this style of game wasnt successful enough and nobody gives a poo poo because its epic lols to call sonic bad every time
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Oct 18, 2020 01:00
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Zonekeeper posted:Behold, the namesake of my "Zonekeeper" username that I've been using on the internet for 21 goddamned years: that's cute!
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Oct 18, 2020 01:12
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Oxyclean posted:I feel like the Generations Modern Sonic/Boost Gameplay really kinda captures that particularly. Apart from the music getting filtered when you boost. Let us turn that off, Sega, holy moly
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Oct 18, 2020 01:39
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Pigbuster posted:Apart from the music getting filtered when you boost. i remember when generations released on pc and darioff worked on some simple tools i spent a couple days trying to replace the boost tracks. it doesnt dynamically apply filtering to the track but rather has a different song file with the filter already applied and no matter what i did i could never replace it and would always result in a silent stage
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Oct 18, 2020 01:47
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they only really made good use of that system in sky sanctuary and one other I forget, where the boost track had extra drums and stuff too
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Oct 18, 2020 02:08
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The boost track should just be massively bass boosted
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Oct 18, 2020 02:14
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Dabir posted:they only really made good use of that system in sky sanctuary and one other I forget, where the boost track had extra drums and stuff too you didnt have to boost for those, they trigger if you're going at a certain speed iirc
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Oct 18, 2020 03:02
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Dabir posted:they only really made good use of that system in sky sanctuary and one other I forget, where the boost track had extra drums and stuff too green hill, those were the only 2. weird
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Oct 18, 2020 04:45
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Oxyclean posted:I feel like the Generations Modern Sonic/Boost Gameplay really kinda captures that particularly. It is maddening that they perfected boost style in Generations and that’s it. I appreciate Lost World for experimenting, but after that failure they should’t have struggled to find their footing again in Forces THAT badly.
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Oct 18, 2020 06:52
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Pants Donkey posted:That’s when I first had that revelation, as Modern stages tended more towards designs where you could achieve a flow and just zoom through things moreso than Classic. This is one the main reasons why I found Forces so disappointing. They made really really good boost stages in Generations and Unleashed, and...none of the boost levels in Forces felt that good to play
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Oct 18, 2020 09:51
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ArfJason posted:the thing that grinds my nuts into paste is that if i want to play something like modern sonic you have like 4 games and even then its just a fraction of those and one of those is forces. its like how when dmc released if you wanted to play something like dmc you had to replay dmc. only this style of game wasnt successful enough and nobody gives a poo poo because its epic lols to call sonic bad every time Sega is just completely insane and has been so for almost forty years. Look at the Golden Axed news that came out, these people are bonkers.
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Oct 19, 2020 03:49
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I was watching someone stream Sonic Chronicles and it's loving bananas that there hasn't been an actual good Sonic RPG whatsoever. Sonic already has the ingredients for a fun RPG if you think about it: a colorful cast of characters, a charismatic villain who summons eldritch monsters, a vast world full of scenic locales, having Big the Cat as a reason to put in a fishing minigame. Hell, you could probably even do a Paper Classic Sonic series and it'd be extremely cute. There's just so much untapped potential there that never gets utilized.
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Oct 19, 2020 05:45
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Also the Game Gears that come in four colors and each have four totally different games on them and are smaller than a GBA Micrro including the screen size making them nearly unplayable. Oh, but you can buy the full set of them for like $200 
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Oct 19, 2020 05:48
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Hell if I'm going to dig it all up again but from what I recall, Forces sucks because it was a relatively rushed reboot/retooling of some other more ambitious game, with far fewer staff than were on Generations. I still wonder if the avatar was originally supposed to be Boom Sonic.
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Oct 19, 2020 05:59
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amigolupus posted:I was watching someone stream Sonic Chronicles and it's loving bananas that there hasn't been an actual good Sonic RPG whatsoever. Sonic already has the ingredients for a fun RPG if you think about it: a colorful cast of characters, a charismatic villain who summons eldritch monsters, a vast world full of scenic locales, having Big the Cat as a reason to put in a fishing minigame. Hell, you could probably even do a Paper Classic Sonic series and it'd be extremely cute. There's just so much untapped potential there that never gets utilized. completely agree. I always thought an RPG that used the formation from Sonic heroes would be cool. Kind of like Mario & Luigi, you have to dodge enemy attacks, but on an isometric plane, and for fluff you're constantly running on a moving background.
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Oct 19, 2020 11:28
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Hell if I'm going to dig it all up again but from what I recall, Forces sucks because it was a relatively rushed reboot/retooling of some other more ambitious game, with far fewer staff than were on Generations. Allegedly the game was supposed to be mainly focused on the custom character, with Sonic not even appearing until later in the story (you can already tell Green Hill was moved to the beginning because it’s already dilapidated before Eggman has taken over). After a negative reaction from Sega of America and Europe they turned it into what it is now.
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Oct 19, 2020 12:32
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Give Toys For Bob a stab at it, they got Crash down perfect, they even did better grind rails.
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Oct 19, 2020 12:41
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anything that didn't replicate the core gameplay of the original 3 in Crash 4 sucked (excluding dingodile) the grind rails were horrible and laggy, the wall jump for tawna was heavily scripted and felt so jank definitely don't give them Sonic- sega can do jank on their own!
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Oct 19, 2020 17:11
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you are a criminal and should be put in jail.
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Oct 19, 2020 17:35
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let them drag me away! I really wanted to like Crash 4 more than I did. It's an absolute blast as long as you ignore 100%ing levels, which is a long, unfun slog- but also like half the fun of crash
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Oct 19, 2020 19:10
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