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Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Homora Gaykemi posted:

the Knux/Rouge stages wouldn't be quite so bad if they'd kept the SA1 style radar instead of deciding that it'd now only go off in the order they wanted you to grab the shards

To be fair, SA2:Battle at least added a fourth level to the sensor where when you’re right on top of a shard an exclamation point will appear over your character’s head, the Dreamcast original had no such indicator (which was annoying as poo poo when the shard in question happened to be buried underground).

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Lance of Llanwyln
Jun 11, 2008

GIVE ME MORE
SUPER BOWL
WINS


kirbysuperstar posted:

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP yosh

The Knux/Rouge stages are just awful unless you've played them like ten times and know the locations, coming in fresh it's just dogshit

Speed stages are the only good ones and because it's SA2 they're buggy as hell
What’s Shadow’s last stage? Final Rush or Final Chase?
It has this really awesome design and track, and those rotating spinners you run up/across are cool in theory, but the camera sucks poo poo so it’s hard to see all the enemies and obstacles and occasionally you get to the top of the up ones only for the janky rear end physics to break and flick you off to your doom, so instead of going fast and it being awesome, you have to take it slow and cautious so you don’t have to do this over again.
Still better than Sonic’s.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Lance of Llanwyln posted:

What’s Shadow’s last stage? Final Rush or Final Chase?
It has this really awesome design and track, and those rotating spinners you run up/across are cool in theory, but the camera sucks poo poo so it’s hard to see all the enemies and obstacles and occasionally you get to the top of the up ones only for the janky rear end physics to break and flick you off to your doom, so instead of going fast and it being awesome, you have to take it slow and cautious so you don’t have to do this over again.
Still better than Sonic’s.

Final Rush was Sonic’s stage and it was about 90% grind rails over bottomless pits (and the rest was floating platforms you could easily fall off of). Shadow’s was Final Chase and it was slightly better by comparison.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1989
I am trash man
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS





Dabir posted:

I can't possibly overstate how badly Tails and Eggman control in SA2. Their levels are borderline unplayable.

they're a straight downgrade from Gamma's stages

Larryb posted:

Final Rush was Sonic’s stage and it was about 90% grind rails over bottomless pits (and the rest was floating platforms you could easily fall off of). Shadow’s was Final Chase and it was slightly better by comparison.

Chase was the bad one because it relied entirely on a wonky gravity mechanic. Rails in SA2 are actually affected by momentum so Final Rush is good.

Buml0r
Sep 14, 2003


I remember quite enjoying that rails level at the time, but it was blummin hard.

Hey, here's a thought that's been going through my head lately.

Wouldn't it be nice if they did a remake of Sonic Unleashed -- waaaait for it -- and they took out the Werehog stages, instead turning the Werehog into a powerup for the running stages, and they built onto those running stages so that now they're bigger, with different routes to go through if you have the Werehog. He becomes basically Knuckles gameplay, where you can punch through walls to uncover secret tunnels, or haul yourself up flat surfaces using your claws and teeth to climb.

I reckon that would be quite fun. Can't decide what would be the best way to turn into him though, probably a voluntary powerup, so you CAN just run through as Sonic, but then as you replay the levels and start to want to know what that far-off platform or that glimmer of hidden ring just visible through a crack in a wall might be all about, you go Werehog, get in there, and maybe find your way to a new, better running but for Sonic.

Yes I know they won't do this, I am an old Sonic fan so I live in a world of fantasy and you're just going to have to allow it.

Buml0r fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Feb 22, 2021

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Augus posted:

they're a straight downgrade from Gamma's stages


Chase was the bad one because it relied entirely on a wonky gravity mechanic. Rails in SA2 are actually affected by momentum so Final Rush is good.

To be fair, I like Final Rush a lot better now than I did back when I first played the game on the Dreamcast (Protip: Spindash onto rails that are connected to platforms to automatically start grinding them at top speed, in the case of the ones on the floating platforms going upward do a homing attack instead).

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



Dabir posted:

I can't possibly overstate how badly Tails and Eggman control in SA2. Their levels are borderline unplayable.

Tails and Eggman stages are perfectly fine and might actually be the most fun to A-rank cause finding optimal score combos and executing them on the various waves of enemies is actually pretty intense.

Unless we're talking about Eternal Engine, that level is very bad.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Super Jay Mann posted:

Tails and Eggman stages are perfectly fine and might actually be the most fun to A-rank cause finding optimal score combos and executing them on the various waves of enemies is actually pretty intense.

Unless we're talking about Eternal Engine, that level is very bad.

Aside from Lost Colony I also generally found Eggman’s stages to be a lot more fun than Tails’

Lance of Llanwyln
Jun 11, 2008

GIVE ME MORE
SUPER BOWL
WINS


Larryb posted:

Aside from Lost Colony I also generally found Eggman’s stages to be a lot more fun than Tails’
Cosmic Wall is a super chill stage, if a bit long. Really, a lot of those stages overstay their welcome. If they were a bit faster-paced and really leaned into a score attack mindset, they would be really neat.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012





i cannot fathom all the sa2 hate occurring in here right now

Hitlersaurus Christ
Oct 14, 2005


Despite hating bottomless pits I loved Final Rush and got good enough at it that I could speedrun it, at least by 11-year-old standards.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012





final rush is sick, final chase is sick, and i love the treasure hunting levels (except rouge's pyramid caper)

Scrap Dragon
Oct 6, 2013

SECRET TECHNIQUE:
DARK SHADOW
BLACK FALLEN ANGEL!




Looper posted:

final rush is sick, final chase is sick, and i love the treasure hunting levels (except rouge's Mario Galaxy prototype)

MJeff
Jun 2, 2011

The M stands for MOX

Eggman and Knuckles were fine. Tails' levels were too platform-y and Rouge's levels were too gimmicky.

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003



The first time I played Sonic Adventure was when I hired a Dreamcast from the video store close to launch. I had a lot of fun with it, but also I had chicken pox and was taking anti-itch medication that made me high as all gently caress.

Was everyone else that liked it hosed up on drugs too?

azurite
Jul 25, 2010

Strange, isn't it?!




Am I missing something? Was I playing wrong or something? The rail grinding levels in SA2 were brutal! Jumping from rail to rail felt like it was impossible and I died so many times.

I haven't really played it since I was like 14, and this is a big reason why.

sharrrk
Feb 13, 2012

It's time to party!


Looper posted:

i cannot fathom all the sa2 hate occurring in here right now

these people are aliens

Evil Eagle
Nov 5, 2009



sharrrk posted:

these people are aliens

black creatures

sharrrk
Feb 13, 2012

It's time to party!


rail transferring in sa2 is a skill you have to learn but it works very reliably once you do. i honestly kind of don't like how rail transfers work in the modern games because of how automatic it is

sharrrk
Feb 13, 2012

It's time to party!


mad space sucks rear end and it rules. one of the coolest stages in a game filled with cool stages

Hitlersaurus Christ
Oct 14, 2005


It’s been at least a decade since I’ve played it but I recall switching rails being as simple as holding the direction you wanted to switch to and then tapping the jump button (or just jumping then repositioning yourself so you land on another rai). IIRC you can use the homing attack on the beginning of rails too.

Chieves
Sep 20, 2010


Rouge and Tails were later additions than Knuckles and Eggman, right? Kind of makes me wonder if their levels were either just ported over when the other character was added or if their levels were made from scratch and didn't have as much dev time put into them.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Chieves posted:

Rouge and Tails were later additions than Knuckles and Eggman, right? Kind of makes me wonder if their levels were either just ported over when the other character was added or if their levels were made from scratch and didn't have as much dev time put into them.

Yeah, based on the first trailer at least it seems like originally the game was just Sonic, Knuckles, and Eggman. Shadow was there from the beginning but I’m not sure whether he was originally planned to be playable or not (early screenshots show Sonic in Sky Rail after all).

Also I seem to remember you having to physically jump from rail to rail in SA2 but then from Heroes onward they switched to the easier method (except for 06 which went back to the way SA2 did it).

Larryb fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Feb 22, 2021

azurite
Jul 25, 2010

Strange, isn't it?!




Hitlersaurus Christ posted:

It’s been at least a decade since I’ve played it but I recall switching rails being as simple as holding the direction you wanted to switch to and then tapping the jump button (or just jumping then repositioning yourself so you land on another rai). IIRC you can use the homing attack on the beginning of rails too.

I'll have to see if that works. I remember doing normal jumps between rails and missing a fuckton.

Homora Gaykemi
Apr 30, 2020

"We live together in her Skull Cave. We cook each other dinner all the time. She gifted me this beautiful horse. Do you think I should ask her out?"*

*Ancient lesbo saying


Chieves posted:

Rouge and Tails were later additions than Knuckles and Eggman, right? Kind of makes me wonder if their levels were either just ported over when the other character was added or if their levels were made from scratch and didn't have as much dev time put into them.

I definitely remember reading that the game started development with branching story paths planned and speculation that whend they then decided to expand out to the hero/dark side stories instead some of the stages that were designed as alternate branches just got shunted off to new story character instead. This explains why there's a bit of an imbalance between the two in the types of stages and would then explain the level of focus given to some over others that were afterthoughts

Skeletome
Feb 4, 2011




Hate the mech stages but Cosmic Wall is genuinely fun. I wonder if every level would have been better with half the gravity

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012





I actually like Cosmic Fall. I mean it's still a Shadow the Hedgehog level, but..it's cool. The background is rad.

FIND THE COMPUTER ROOM

MechaSeinfeld
Jan 2, 2008



I really like SA2 but I won’t let that stop me from calling that level ‘Cosmic Fail’

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.




The Dreamcast games have aged poorly, no matter how many layers of irony you pile on top of the cutscenes or how much you like the music.

Hitlersaurus Christ
Oct 14, 2005


Something can age poorly and still be enjoyable, or even good!

BizarroAzrael
Apr 6, 2006

"That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

MJeff posted:

Cybershell debated a guy about SA2 vs. Sonic Heroes and I tried to watch it, but found it pretty insufferable and gave up after 20 minutes. See if you can last longer than that, I guess?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obtGE_8NAp8#t=340s

That guy ranked every Simpsons episode recently and the random bit I saw put a Ricky Gervais ep over The Cartridge Family, so I feel they can be dismissed out of hand now.

Procrastine
Mar 30, 2011




Mad Space is better than Meteor Herd. This is less a defense of Mad Space and more an indictment of Meteor Herd.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Mad Space was at least creative with its proto-Mario Galaxy style setup and all.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

The Islamic Orb Illuminati.

Lurdiak posted:

The Dreamcast games have aged poorly, no matter how many layers of irony you pile on top of the cutscenes or how much you like the music.

Lol imagine being this wrong

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


The Dreamcast games haven't aged poorly, they sucked when they came out too.

Xad
Jul 2, 2009

"Either Sonic is God, or could kill God, and I do not care if there is a difference!"



College Slice

sharrrk posted:

rail transferring in sa2 is a skill you have to learn but it works very reliably once you do. i honestly kind of don't like how rail transfers work in the modern games because of how automatic it is

tbh I just recently played through SA2 and at this point I've learned the level layouts enough that I never need to actually do a rail transfer, I usually jump most of the way down that one spiral rail part near the beginning of Final Rush, does anyone else do that? It was always really funny to do that in multiplayer because it looked like you just gave up but nope the rail's down there

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS



Lurdiak posted:

The Dreamcast games have aged poorly, no matter how many layers of irony you pile on top of the cutscenes or how much you like the music.

There is no irony in my love for Sonic Adventure 2.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1989
I am trash man
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS





Lurdiak posted:

The Dreamcast games have aged poorly, no matter how many layers of irony you pile on top of the cutscenes or how much you like the music.

who said anything about irony

Spiderdrake
May 12, 2001




Lurdiak posted:

The Dreamcast games have aged poorly, no matter how many layers of irony you pile on top of the cutscenes or how much you like the music.
It is time for you to battle... the Hardcore Sonic Fans

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Xad
Jul 2, 2009

"Either Sonic is God, or could kill God, and I do not care if there is a difference!"



College Slice

Spiderdrake posted:

It is time for you to battle... the Hardcore Sonic Fans

Before this is over, I'll show you the true power of CHAOS CONTROL

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