Sonic Megathread: They use the existing toilets but the layouts are all new

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Sonic Megathread: They use the existing toilets but the layouts are all new

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Trasson posted:

Maybe it's not super interesting, but it's still really neat.

For the longtime fans, it takes the basic gameplay paradigm of the first boss in the series (dodge a swinging ball to jump and hit the target without getting hurt) and adds in an extra dimension.

Like, that says great things. The first boss isn't some crazy contraption with a massive arena. It's just a very simple design that plays dynamically without any frills.

For the new player, it's a great tutorial boss. It teaches that bosses will have predictable patterns. It teaches that bosses will have defined places to hit. It teaches that sometimes you need to wait for the boss to be vulnerable. It teaches that bosses can have safe zones where one can get a breather and take it calmly. Finally, it teaches exactly how you'll bounce from an attack, and does so in a safe manner: there's a good chance if you jump for a hit you'll land on safe ground so you can learn the physics safely.

I mean, compare Sonic 3's first boss (Angel Island Act 1). It just sits there, shoots out some flames every now and then, then moves to the other side of the screen. There's very little to be learned from the fight. Worse, if you have a fire shield, you don't even need to try. Nothing about that boss prepares you with fundamentals for the game's later bosses. Now, the flip side is that Sonic 3 has some of the most varied and dynamic fights in the series, and nothing exactly can prepare you for crap like Lava Reef 2's boss or freaking Death Egg (either), but there's a cost in accessibility.

Compare its predecessors. Sonic 1's bosses were all about the physics and being careful about how you attack. Sonic 2's bosses were all about playing with limited timeframes and angles of attack. Note that only Sonic 1's final boss has "you can only attack here at x time" while that's present in nearly every boss in Sonic 2. Conversely, Sonic 2 has very few bosses that require you to be careful with your jump. Sure, there could be an obstacle or projectile, but if you hit you were probably safe. However, that's all over the place in Sonic 1 in a smooth progression:

-avoid landing on the ball (easy, with a nearly static target and slow predictable hazard)
-avoid landing into lava or flames (a bit more difficult as the target moves and the fire is a little less predictable)
-avoid landing in a death pit (dangerous, but you control how and where the danger is while also introducing a risk/reward tension into the attack)
-avoid landing on various obstacles (while there's no boss in the traditional sense, all of the boss fight mechanics of being careful of when and how you jump against a fixed obstacle are there. Bonus in that the "recollect rings" method of staying alive opens you to death by drowning)
-flipping things around: you're safe to land nearly anywhere but when and where you attack is taken away somewhat (not that difficult but an appreciated gimmick between two more annoying fights. Basically the same as Star Light itself)
-final fight. Landing is safe most of the time but extreme care must be taken to not attack too soon or too early. Safe zone is present but only safe for half of the boss's attacks (hard as balls and requires everything learned prior).

All of that is to get to my point: the Sonic Mania Green Hill boss feels like it's going for the smoother and more elegant boss design of Sonic 1 and 2 rather than the zaniness of Sonic 3 and CD. Focusing on the simple basics says far more positive things about the direction of the game compared to if something like a Sonic 3 boss came out with its "look at how crazy and different it is" which suggests style over substance*.

*Not that Sonic 3 is style over substance, really--there were two prior games to give training and context for all the rules it was breaking--but it does mean that it was less new player friendly in its basic design.

Wouldn't you know, I was brilliant as gently caress to figure all this stuff out at eight, and very good at video games, too.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2016 21:08

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 07:11

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

RoBUTTnik

# ¿ Jul 29, 2016 13:48

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Me, watching Polygon preview of Sonic Mania: Holy poo poo how are these guys so bad at a freaking Sonic game.
Me, after playing Sonic Mania for 30min: Holy poo poo how am I so bad at a freaking Sonic game.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2017 12:49

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Here's a really interesting mini-doc about the history of Sonic 2 speedruns if you are into that kind of thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvY8GEOCRdY

# ¿ Aug 20, 2017 21:01

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

MikeJF posted:

Sonic Boom: has its moments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tesyEwCz6O8

Ugh.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 10:55

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Lava Reef is cool. The Act 1 --> Act 2 transition in the original S3&K was super slick and the Death Egg growing larger and larger in the background was sick as heck.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 13:47

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

One thing Mania 2 could definitely improve upon is having better zone transitions, as that was one of the single coolest things about S3&K.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 14:24

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Dishwasher posted:

Sonic Time Twisted, a PC fan-game in development for 12 years, is pretty fun, has brand new art and levels, and is very satisfying so far. People, like myself, who think the reused level concepts and themes in Mania were a bit of a drag should check it out. It feels a bit less derivative, ironically enough. It's made by the same crew who released Spark The Electric Jester.

There's also Freedom Planet and its sequel coming out next year, which is the best evolution of 2D Sonic not named Mania.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 18:47

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

corn in the bible posted:

My favorite part of Freedom Planet is the 20 minute long torture scenes

Haha yes please skip all cutscenes if you ever play FP because they are all bizarre.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 18:59

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

The problem with Shadow is Shadow.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 19:23

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

MisterBibs posted:

Not when the Modern Sonic games haven't even sniffed 1/2/3/K's levels of success, no. Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Robotnik, and some sort of Metal Sonic. Everything else has been trying to reinvent the wheel.

The only 90s Sonic games still in the top 10 are Sonic 1 & 2.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 21:00

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Here's what makes a good Sonic character:

1. Does not talk.
2. Runs fast.
3. Is from Sonic 1, 2, 3, or Knuckles.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 21:16

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Gammatron 64 posted:

It seems Sonic has a thing for human girls. Sorry Amy.

I don't think Madonna counts though because I don't think she ever made it past the concept art stage. I wonder if the guys at Sega ever saw Who Framed Rodger Rabbit because Sonic was basically going to be dating Jessica Rabbit until Sega of America was like "oh God no, that's really not very appropriate." If only someone had stepped up and put their foot down regarding Princess Elise. Or anything about Sonic 2006.

Oh, speaking of, I finally got that game along with some of the other shittiest Sonic games. I've never actually played it before. Oh Lord what am I getting myself into

This is like looking at a suicidal depressive posting pics of his gun collection.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 22:16

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I think there's room for Sonic Team to do whatever it is they're doing with the mainline 3D Sonics while Team Mania keeps releasing new 2D games. Why not, it's profitable for each and fans on either end of the spectrum are getting what they want.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2017 16:04

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Sonic Mania is great for us old people in our 30s who post on this dead gay forum but the reality of our times is that most gamers below that age group grew up with the 3D Sonics and connect with them more.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2017 16:23

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Freedom Planet 2 should be out next year so it'll be interesting to see what GalaxyTrail does with their own iteration on the Sonic formula.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2017 19:19

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Dark_Tzitzimine posted:

https://twitter.com/blackbookalpha/status/901971073096335360

New Sonic villain, "Croque Madame."

# ¿ Aug 28, 2017 19:24

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I'm jealous of all you guys on Steam who got Denuvo, he seems like a pretty cool character.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2017 07:47

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Skeletome posted:

I feel like the man who really hates sonic games shouldn't get a shout out in a game that's a love letter to the franchise

I skipped the credits but I hope sonic stadium and retro get shout outs over various YouTube stars

dunkey owns.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2017 18:20

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Omelette is a really dumb name for girl Robotnik, they should have gone with Croque Madame.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2017 10:07

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I'm almost finished with Sonic Mania. I think it's okay. I'd probably buy Sonic Mania 2 with all new maps and some more original gimmicks, but I probably won't 100% everything. I'm looking forward to Freedom Planet 2 in 2018.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2017 14:49

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I can see why people complain about the OOZ endboss now. I'm replaying the fight and just abruptly died for no discernible reason twice in a row.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2017 10:43

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

The history of Sonic speedruns is pretty interesting, all of the 2D games feature some buggy geometry or major exploit that allow players to beat them in an impossibly short amount of time.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2017 15:45

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Defining Knuckles character traits:

1. Rougher than the rest of them.
2. Does not chuckle.
3. If given the option, would prefer to flex muscles.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2017 18:01

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

So do you think Angel Island is an actual regional name on the Floating Island or was it kind of just like an introductory "here's what you would call this place if you were totally new to it, I guess" sort of thing.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2017 15:49

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Kelp Plankton posted:

yo why hasnt there been a sonic game with a level named Fantasy Zone yet

How did you find my fanfics.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2017 20:35

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

azurite posted:

Is it a known phenomenon that good Mario players hate Sonic and vice versa simply because they're used to the physics on their chosen game?

I grew up with Genesis and my best friend at the time had a Super Nintendo and sometimes we'd argue who would win in a fight Sonic or Mario as the kids do, but we went over each other's houses and enjoyed all the games just the same. One thing we could definitely always agree upon was that Crash Bandicoot was a dipshit wholly unworthy of console mascotdom.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2017 14:18

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Big isn't the worst thing about Sonic Adventure but his sections induce a sort of existential moment where you ponder, "why the gently caress am I fishing in a Sonic the Hedgehog game" and it only gets worse from that point on.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2017 00:15

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 07:11

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Dang, Forces is getting killed. Those 2.5 months where Sonic was a good series again were fun, see you in another 23 years.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2017 15:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Sonic Megathread: They use the existing toilets but the layouts are all new