Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

The insta-shield in advance 1 works differently, if you hit something with it you don't bounce off. In Sonic 3 it just extends Sonic's own hitbox.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Groovelord Neato posted:

the only trolls are all the youngbloods saying eggman in the thread!

eggs
man

deal with it

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Augus posted:

It would be nice if they did an HD remake of Sonic Adventure that wasn't garbage.

be nice if pigs flew too

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Bubsy Sonic.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Which fangame is it that unironically uses Metal Gear Rising's final boss theme in its own final boss? I know it's one of the ones by the BtS/AtS guy.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzLWZA6vwhE
Yeah no just loving look at it.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Yorkshire Tea posted:

My single argument for Sonic 2 over Sonic 3.



...is that you're dumb? agreed

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

I love how weird CD's bosses are, how each one is a gimmick except for the (awful, yes) final boss which is a straight up fight. I wouldn't want all Sonic bosses to be like that, it only works because there's a standard to twist in the first place, but it's a neat way the game sets itself apart from the others.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Amppelix posted:

I hope y'all in this thread are aware that the coolest Sonic fangame is literally a Doom 2 mod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUlH110zCG4

Although if you want to check it out for yourself be aware that it's really, stupidly, hard. The final level has megaman vanishing blocks for god's sake, in vanishingly tiny size, while you're controlling an extremely fast and slippery Sonic in 3D. This speedrunner is making it look way too easy.

SRB2 is so good.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Camera could use a little work, especially in zoom tubes. IMO they should really be viewed side-on. And going up stairs *sucks* cause you jerk up each step, it's a bit nauseating.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

VikingofRock posted:

I actually liked the gimmicks in Sandopolis Act 2. The ghosts/lights add a sense of tension to the level, and then the deliberately slow things like the moving blocks play off that. In Sandopolis Act 2 going slow will literally kill you--what's more sonic than that?

Unless you just jump at the ghosts.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

beep by grandpa posted:

He's talking about the rising sand

which you can also beat by jumping at the ghosts

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

I think it's more of a proof of concept of 'yes Sonic can be fun in 3d without the scripting and boost pads and go-fast button'.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

The top speed is way too fast, but it does seem very well thought out in how Sonic moves otherwise. It at least doesn't look like Sonic slides everywhere like in every fangame engine so far. I'll give it a try later.

Doesn't seem to handle precision platforming all that well cause sonic slips around a little even at low speeds, also good luck getting onto one of the platforms that move up and down cause your first instinct is to use the shadows but they lie to you.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

A whole two good games and they weren't even the most recent two.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Sue posted:

Good games, maybe.

Good Sonic games, certainly not.

Those goalposts aren't too heavy, are they?

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

beep by grandpa posted:

I've had enough of the negativity in this thread. We are brothers. It greatly disturbs me when I think about how stubborn and absolutist some of SA's Sonic "fans" can behave so I'll begin the healing by saying some nice/constructive things about all of the Sonic games that aren't my favorite:

Sonic Lost World is extremely pretty and the music is nice, I think if they had another year or two to polish it up it could've been as good as Generations.

Uh-huh, with you.

quote:

Sonic 4 Ep 1 had really chill special stages and I had fun no-damaging the final boss for the achievement.
Uh

quote:

Sonic 4 Ep 2 was much better looking than Ep 1 and the physics were a bit better so I think they took some fan feedback.
Huh

quote:

Sonic 2006 has probably my favorite Main Theme of any Sonic game and honestly the story isn't that bad.
Ok you lost me

quote:

Sonic Unleashed was a necessary and pivotal step in what would lead to the best sonic games in a decade. Rooftop Run is probably in my top 5 fav Sonic levels of all time.
yeah well I played the wii version and it sucks poo poo

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Archie is good now though.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Vector!

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

at least we can stand in solidarity at having to put up with your posting

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

I dispute your assertion that anyone likes the werehog.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Or the slightly more expensive version of the sound chip that didn't have noise down every channel.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7-NPV0eiAM
woah.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Eggmanland still has it beat tbh

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

I thought it was that they lost the original music they'd done so they had to quickly grab some MIDIs off the internet.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

wooooooooooow my head's spinning

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Never fallen through loops in Heroes but been hosed up changing rails plenty of times.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Sonic's element is Heroes is wind.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

You could but we'd be wondering what the gently caress was wrong with you.

Hypothetically.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Oh man I just realised why that one portal threw a car

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Not in GBA it wasn't.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

So I was playing Sonic 2 and it turns out there's one starfish robot in Metropolis that isn't inside a solid wall and you can kill it by jumping into it. I wouldn't have thought you could since they're basically the bombs from Sonic 1. Well that's my contribution.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Most 3D fangames have awful physics and terrible design and have to use high speed and homing attacks to compensate.

So they fit the spirit of the originals perfectly!

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Sue posted:

Everybody who thinks the homing attack in 2D is a good idea should just play Sonic 4 and see how they like it.

The drop dash from Mania looks far more sensible (though not great enough that I can accept it as a replacement for S3K's superb insta-shield).

Can we talk about how much worse the insta-shield in Advance is purely because you can't bounce off things with it?

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

MikeJF posted:

Well, it's a bit of a sonic take on the ground pound, which got super popular in platformers after it was invented for a drat good reason.

I don't think it is, despite the name there doesn't look to be much of a drop component to it, it's just a burst of speed when you land. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Heh.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

PaletteSwappedNinja posted:

Sonic 3&K drags like hell - the levels are huge and while the gimmicks change a lot, the level of challenge plateaus fairly early on so it can be pretty tedious. Sonic 2 is the sweet spot.


The whole reason Mania is a remix game is because the engine is specifically modelled after the MD-era Sonic games and is made to reuse as many assets from those games as possible; if they had the resources to draw entire zones' worth of engine-appropriate assets they'd probably just make all-new stages, I think.

They are doing that though? And it's not entirely modelled after MD per se, it's more of a hypothetical 2D Sonic on the Saturn.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Yorkshire Tea posted:

So with Sonic 2, there's a map of almost every stage in my head. I don't know the entire layout, but for every stage until Oil Ocean I know where the "high" path is and what you need to do to get there. The levels are simple enough that I also know most of the enemy placement on the high paths meaning I can storm through a lot of the game with sufficient, but not unreasonable practice. And honestly, that's what I enjoy. I think it's because when you're playing well, it's obvious that you are because you're going through the level quickly and being rewarded with high ring counts.

Most people list Oil Ocean as a low point in Sonic 2 and I agree because it's here that the stage becomes too big, with the high path ceasing to be obvious. So you end up slowly going through a level with no real idea of whether you're playing "well" or not.

In what is unlikely to be a surprise the stages in Sonic 3 that are most problematic fall into this trap as well, Marble Garden, Carnival Night and Sandopolis all loop around like crazy so it's never clear whether you're playing the game "right" or not.

I've always felt the concept that a player intuitively knows whether they're playing the game "well" or not is undervalued in game design. A lot of people granted, enjoy the adventure of finding new things, but I find a lot of people, myself included, enjoy the idea that they're finding the "best" path through something and are being rewarded for it. Again, perhaps unsurprisingly I find that these people tend to really enjoy a lot of the Sonic games.

The thing about Sonic 3 that complicates this is that the 'right' way to play is really a bit more slow and explorey, so you can find enough chances to get the Emeralds. Look at Angel Island, you can have four emeralds by the end of the Zone, but other than the one that's handed to you at the start of Act 2, they're all on the bottom routes.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Rorac posted:

That actually makes a lot of sense, although I have to make one disagreement with Marble Garden specifically. That level is large, but it's also somewhat special in that there isn't really a specific high and low path, just different paths that take you down different routes (separate from the sonic/knuckles specific routes), and which path is better is actually left up to the player. This is as opposed to the high path usually being the fastest or otherwise best one. I think this may have been a deliberate design choice.

Basically, Oil Ocean feels like an experiment in ditching specific high/mid/low pathing, and it didn't really work out. I think that Marble Garden was a refinement of the idea, and did actually work. At the very least, Marble Garden has parts of it that are actually fast. I never felt like I could build up speed in Oil Ocean, and there's lots of slow sections in Marble Garden, but there's also segments where you can haul rear end. Hell, it's not even 'you can', with those slopes hauling rear end is mandatory.



Actually, in retrospect, I think my biggest problem with Oil Ocean is the speed. Or rather, the total lack thereof. I dislike Oil Ocean because it feels like you just can't get going for any appreciable amount of time. Marble Garden, Carnival Night and even Sandopolis has moments where you can just go full tilt, but you find nothing like that in Oil Ocean.



That's a bit unfair to S3 though. I'm pretty sure you can get every single emerald in the first act of S2.

Edit: I remembered wrong. Still, you can get them all in the first 2 acts and have one to spare if you hosed one of them up.

True but getting to emeralds in Sonic 2 is essentially part of the main gameplay loop - get rings, don't get hit, hit checkpoints. Sonic 3's big rings are a separate thing that you have to really go out of your way to concentrate on doing - and in a few places it does detract a bit from the level. Hydro City isn't awful, maybe a bit long and reuses the same set pieces a lot, but the main reason I don't like it is that I know there's at least three big rings and I can never find them all no matter how much I search. Just playing the level it's fast and fun, it even speeds you through the water sections like it's ashamed of them.

Dabir fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Mar 1, 2017

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

SeANMcBAY posted:

All the remixes by this guy own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4HmcoUjbXI

He decided that actually in retrospect most of his old remixes were pretty lazy, archived that channel and made a new one where he only puts up ones he's really put effort into. Now you've got a whole load more to listen to!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply