Shroud of the Avatar: Garriott's Ultima MMO successor thing (no more wipes)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > Shroud of the Avatar: Garriott's Ultima MMO successor thing (no more wipes)

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Canuckistan: Jan 14, 2004; I'm the greatest thing since World War III.; Soiled Meat

Free to play but you have to invest at least $1000 before you're part of the community.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 17:08

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 14:21

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

HardKase posted:

This is f2p now? I am installing it. I hate you guys.

Its been free to play for a long time now, but everything about it is utter trash. Theres been no actual updates to the game in years, the only thing that still happens is occassionally someone imports Unit store assets into Shroud of the Avatar and charges $50 a piece for each one.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 20:20

Cardboard Fox: Feb 8, 2009; [Tentatively Excited]

Canuckistan posted:

part of the community.

How large is this community?

# ? Apr 21, 2022 20:27

wdarkk: Oct 26, 2007; Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

Cardboard Fox posted:

How large is this community?

That reminds me, did they ever sell all of those castle packages?

# ? Apr 21, 2022 20:45

100 degrees Calcium: Jan 23, 2011

Lord British is building Cryptoland.... in the metaverse!

# ? Apr 21, 2022 21:03

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

wdarkk posted:

That reminds me, did they ever sell all of those castle packages?

No, and those who bought them never got them.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 22:15

wdarkk: Oct 26, 2007; Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

I said come in! posted:

No, and those who bought them never got them.

Ah yes, the most Shroud of the Avatar outcome.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 22:40

Gynovore: Jun 17, 2009; Forget your RoboCoX or your StickyCoX or your EvilCoX, MY CoX has Blinking Bewbs!

WHY IS THIS GAME DEAD?!

I said come in! posted:

No, and those who bought them never got them.

So basically every last shred of goodwill that LB has ever had has been pissed away.

Good luck selling those NFTs, your highness.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 00:18

FreeWifi!!: Oct 11, 2013; Okay, that's true. Good point, Marquess. Point for you. But you get a point taken away for being a dick. So, back to zero.

Cardboard Fox posted:

How large is this community?

On a good night there's about 30 people on

(theres rarely a good night in this game)

# ? Apr 22, 2022 00:30

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

did the castles even have a courtyard in the middle into which you could recall? shameful if not.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 01:02

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

gating my friends into my castle courtyard which is rife with energy vortices, blade spirits, and firewalls and then trapping their ghosts there with boxes, for the lulz

# ? Apr 22, 2022 01:04

Lum_: Jun 5, 2006

HardKase posted:

This is f2p now? I am installing it. I hate you guys.

Why the gently caress would you do that?

Source: me, who helped make the drat thing

# ? Apr 22, 2022 01:39

Lum_: Jun 5, 2006

The current state of SOTA in 2022:

Given that the one full-time non-volunteer developer now is working on "Effigy" (yes, that's the name of the next Lord British Production) the few SOTA users left seem to have figured out that the game may see fewer updates. Some have mentioned trying to buy the game, which I guess would be poetic and arguably the ones remaining already *have*.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/could-catnip-sell-sota-to-the-players-and-or-open-source-the-code.171777/

# ? Apr 22, 2022 02:06

2DCAT: Jun 25, 2015; pissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssss sssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssss; Gravy Boat 2k

Lum_ posted:

The current state of SOTA in 2022:

Given that the one full-time non-volunteer developer now is working on "Effigy" (yes, that's the name of the next Lord British Production) the few SOTA users left seem to have figured out that the game may see fewer updates. Some have mentioned trying to buy the game, which I guess would be poetic and arguably the ones remaining already *have*.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/could-catnip-sell-sota-to-the-players-and-or-open-source-the-code.171777/

Would probably be better value for money to just buy the original unity or ue4 marketplace assets tbh

# ? Apr 22, 2022 02:09

Lum_: Jun 5, 2006

I'll have you know my awful and nigh-unfixable code for full text conversations is only made obsolete by at least 10 Asset Store packages!

# ? Apr 22, 2022 02:11

FrostyPox: Feb 8, 2012

Oh yeah, I tried to play this a few months ago and it was not good, I almost forgot about it.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 02:17

Node: May 20, 2001; KICKED IN THE COOTER; Taco Defender

Lum_ posted:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/could-catnip-sell-sota-to-the-players-and-or-open-source-the-code.171777/

Uuuughhhh reading the comments is so painful.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 07:47

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Lum_ posted:

Why the gently caress would you do that?

Source: me, who helped make the drat thing

I am sad about how much of a piece of poo poo this game is. I loved Ultima. But it really is no joke that it is irredeemable trash that is a 1/10.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 07:52

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Popping in to mention that Tera Online is closing down forever in a couple months.

Shroud of the Avatar has outlasted Tera Online.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 08:19

Canuckistan: Jan 14, 2004; I'm the greatest thing since World War III.; Soiled Meat

Node posted:

Uuuughhhh reading the comments is so painful.

"SOTA Forums posted:

Some day on Richard Garriott's new game's forum, there will be a post that goes something like these examples:

- I know it seems technical and not so user friendly, but you may find Shroud of the Avatar, which is more user friendly to better fit your style of play.
- I'm having so much fun in this new content, but there's not enough of it yet, lets go play Shroud of the Avatar until the next instance get's added to this new game.
- This needs to be done exactly as it is on Shroud of the Avatar, come let me show you!

But if we don't become a catch all for this new venture, because the few leave and the multitudes of common game players were not more accomidated for before our technolians leave:

- You remember Shroud of the Avatar?
- Yes I hear it's having trouble keeping it's server going due to a lack of customers.
- Yes it's still in a zombie state, barely hanging on to it's life support.

One of these predictions will become true, it's which one, which is at issue here.

I know which prediction I'd put money on.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 09:59

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

I hadn't actually looked at this thing in awhile and holy poo poo, they really do release new unity-purchased assets for purchase every single month like clockwork.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 16:44

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

Canuckistan posted:

I know which prediction I'd put money on.

It would be a real shame if we ever reach a point where SotA is considered in a zombie state.

oh...

# ? Apr 22, 2022 19:54

Lum_: Jun 5, 2006

30.5 Days posted:

I hadn't actually looked at this thing in awhile and holy poo poo, they really do release new unity-purchased assets for purchase every single month like clockwork.

That's slowed down because even purchasing an asset off the store requires some development work to have placed in the game.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 20:14

FrostyPox: Feb 8, 2012

I don't get why those people love this game so much. Just play Ultima Online or Skyrim or some poo poo

# ? Apr 22, 2022 22:40

Node: May 20, 2001; KICKED IN THE COOTER; Taco Defender

FrostyPox posted:

I don't get why those people love this game so much. Just play Ultima Online or Skyrim or some poo poo

They probably play it to justify their investment in the game, which was probably thousands or tens of thousands of dollars

# ? Apr 22, 2022 23:00

FrostyPox: Feb 8, 2012

Oh right, 8,000 dollar castles or whatever lmao

# ? Apr 22, 2022 23:02

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

Lum_ posted:

That's slowed down because even purchasing an asset off the store requires some development work to have placed in the game.

That's why it's so crazy that they maintain this level of consistency when like, they don't have any paid staff, do they? Are there people volunteering to integrate purchased assets into the game to make chris spears money? No wonder he feels comfortable keeping the game going while he works on something else.

March:
* Cat ears for your character
* Castle Tower Teleporter
* Tiger/leopard cub pets

January:
* Heart themed furniture items
* "Wizard's Tower Village Home"

December:
* Stone Five-Story Home w/ Veranda
* Enchanted Wyvern Eggs
* Ornate Wooden Semi-Circle Display Table

November:
* A couple dozen stone statues
* Ancient Xenossian Helmets
* Playable music
* Epic Snowy White Pine Tree

And just on and on like this. How is this still an effective way of making money, it's bizarre.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 23:47

Lum_: Jun 5, 2006

Most of those are reissues from earlier releases. (Which irritates the faithful because they were originally told they would be exclusive one time only etc.)

AFAIK (and bear in mind I talk to no one involved on this, and until Garriott decided to become Lord CryptoBritish of NFTLand I had mostly purged this from my consciousness) in addition to Spears there's 1 designer, 1 artist, and 1 to 2 programmers who work on a contract basis from when I was there, and another programmer who was brought on from the community. Then there's other community people who are the equivalent of community volunteers/guides in other games whom I assume are paid in COTOs and glory. So it's enough to get out new content every once in a while but there is no logical way to keep 5-6 people paid even on a part time basis when you have a customer base measured in two digits.

FrostyPox posted:

I don't get why those people love this game so much. Just play Ultima Online or Skyrim or some poo poo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Fallacy_effect

# ? Apr 23, 2022 00:43

FrostyPox: Feb 8, 2012

Yeah I forgot it was crowdfunded and there were stupid expensive packages sold.

# ? Apr 23, 2022 13:58

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Would you like to engage in some sunk cost fallacy up to the 10 grand mark?

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=41907

Sale! Normally 11 grand, yours for only $10480. A barren patch of in-game land that can theoretically house more players than the game probably actually has online at any given time.

I'm not sure what 3D chat-only programs are out there but I'm sure one of them probably does effectively the same thing for free.

# ? Apr 24, 2022 10:37

FrostyPox: Feb 8, 2012

I've said it before and it may have even been in this thread but god drat if I wasn't lazy and didn't have ethics I'd probably jump in on this NFT/Kickstarter video game scam train, it seems like there's so many people out there just willing to throw stupid amounts of money at literally nothing but a promise.

I actually do think at one point maybe Garriot wanted to make a real product but now he has to know it's never gonna happen but loves rolling in cash

# ? Apr 24, 2022 15:38

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

I've been enjoying reading the forums and catching up

quote:

To answer an earlier question, I think the shift to "heritage" and "no trade" items is probably unrelated.

Having been here through the kinda timeline of events, my understanding (and I could be way wrong here) was that while large sums of money were changing hands buying and selling Sota "stuff" none of that money was actually going to the developers of the game.

For example, player owned towns - completely unavailable to buy from the "source" and yet thousands of dollars being spent since the only way to get one if you didn't get one initially, was to buy one from another player letting one go. After years of waiting for towns to be made available again, I ended up buying one through the secondary market myself, and I'd have MUCH preferred to throw that cash at the devs but there was simply no mechanism to do so.

There was a time when the only way to get a commission free vendor was to buy a "bundle deal", and you had to buy in about to the $500 mark to get yourself a tax free village deed and a commission free vendor, a house, and a handful of deco items. So people would buy these bundles on disposable accounts, strip the assets, and resell them for a profit, with commission free vendors going for $150-$200 (if memory serves) and the property deeds for about the same, plus itemizing all the other rewards and you could turn a tidy profit.

So, okay. Dev selling a bundle to a reseller is still selling a bundle, so they get paid. But they only get paid once. That person quits, decides to sell their stuff on - that's another new purchase the devs are denied since a reseller will often offer the items cheaper or piecemeal (rather than only in a bundle which was pretty limiting). And then that person sells it on and so forth.

And then there was the expiring of things to create rarity, which was quite frankly, shooting oneself in the foot. The scramble of resellers to buy things because they are about to NEVER BE AVAILABLE AGAIN would create a short term surge of income, but then that's it done, never again. However, these assets still have to be maintained (like old houses that nobody can buy that get leaky roofs and need dev time to fix), bugs will happen that need fixing, and there are ongoing costs to maintain all this glut of stuff that can never earn another cent for the devs. It just didn't make sense.

The other problem was, someone coming to the game new who missed out on pledges and kickstarter and etc. sees all this beautiful stuff everywhere and is saddened by the knowledge that they will never have it unless they cough up megamonies to some third party through potentially questionable transaction means. That or, the cost to entry for a new person in a new game being told they need to immediately unload a few hundred bucks...well, it was off putting.

So we saw a grandual change.

Before heritage, we saw devs directly selling things like vendors and deeds, at prices far less than the secondary market.
While I support this move because I'd much rather my "...omg need the shiny thing impulse purchase..." support the game in some way, I also understand the people who DID buy up loads of things as investments, with the intent to sell them on for profit - for them, this was a breach of faith. Suddenly, the CF vendors and crafting stations that were worht $150 last month are worth $30 this month in unlimited supply from the faucet. At this point, "speculation" purchase, and purchase with intent to resell, dried up significantly.

I know there's still people who do the real money market thing and make a profit, but I also know that a LOT of those players moved on once it became clear that things could change on a whim and that this wasn't a good investment choice.

It was then that we started to see heritage items - some original ones, some that were semi-close-but-not-quite-the-same as reward items, and then finally the full vault system which sells functionally identical items other than the "vault edition" tag and the fact that they aren't sellable. And while I personally was, and am still very much against, the concept of heritage items as decorations because of the myriad of problems they cause when trying to do collaborative deco projects and the resultant catastrophic permissions system change (that we are still stuck with, making shared lots or deco-for-hire a thing of the past), I absolutely understand the reasoning behind it at the time, which was, if players want to buy stuff for their personal use, and not to resell, then it shouldn't matter. The no-trade literally seems to have been added for the specific purpose of limiting re-saleability so that if you wanted a shiny beach ball, you had to buy that shiny beach ball from the devs. I'm ok with this.

Long winded history aside, where we are now is:

Devs buy/make/adapt assets, put in game
Players buy assets from dev. Devs get paid.

This makes sense to me, and is straightforward. But, I'm the sort of player that buys toys to play with them, not to collect them or hope they increase in value later on or as some sort of investment. Am I a little bummed that I picked up a tax free city deed last month for 10% of the price it cost me for one a couple years ago? I guess a little maybe, but at the same time, I got loads of enjoyment out of that deed and it was certainly worth it to me at the time. The fact that I can get MOAR for CHEAPER, from the point of view of a buyer-consumer, is always a good thing. I just assume any money spent on the game is gone. Its entertainment. Like theatre tickets. The fact that I can enjoy my pretty things for years is a bonus.

I don't need to own the world. I don't need to sell crafted items in an MMO on ebay. And I don't want to worry about nftcryptowhatsit. I just want to play and enjoy the game, buy cats to ride around on, and trees to make my town aesthetically pleasing, and new outfits. It would be nice to gift things to friends to pass them on (I still am not a fan of heritage!) but I think in terms of relative evils, this is the lesser one.

# ? May 1, 2022 22:43

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

I guess SOTA was already an NFT game

# ? May 1, 2022 22:43

Canuckistan: Jan 14, 2004; I'm the greatest thing since World War III.; Soiled Meat

I wonder if I can sell my items from my account. I never claimed anything from the Kickstarter $75 'crafter' level. Surely something in there is worth 10 bucks to a whale.

Edit - yes, I bought into the hype for $75. I consider it a cheap lesson into never pre-ordering or supporting Kickstarter games again.

# ? May 1, 2022 22:51

Freakazoid_: Jul 5, 2013; Buglord

Creating a virtual investment simulator is a fool's errand. You have to make a fun, functional video game first.

# ? May 2, 2022 07:50

JugbandDude: Jul 19, 2016; Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun

Shine on you crazy diamond!

Freakazoid_ posted:

Creating a virtual investment simulator is a fool's errand. You have to make a fun, functional video game first.

Well depends on the perspective: if you just want to make money, it's working fine for Earth 2 and other devs.

# ? May 2, 2022 14:05

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

JugbandDude posted:

Well depends on the perspective: if you just want to make money, it's working fine for Earth 2 and other devs.

That one Blockchain game about owning an actual real world island, didn't work out. That one shut down last month and the founders took all of the money and moved it to multiple accounts to escape any sort of accountability.

# ? May 2, 2022 17:49

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Just promise the world in a video game using whatever buzzwords attract punters to you. Get their money and pay yourself 6 figures while developing. Then the company "regrettably" goes bankrupt when the funding runs out. Oh well, whoops sorry try again next time. Repeat until they learn (they won't).

At no point do you ever need to deliver something approaching fun, a complete product, or even an actual product. The promise and dream is all you need.

# ? May 3, 2022 13:45

cmdrk: Jun 10, 2013

DancingShade posted:

Get their money and pay yourself 6 figures while developing.

6 figures? You're way undervaluing yourself compared to these washed up John Videogames characters.

# ? May 3, 2022 18:07

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 14:21

zwdzk: Dec 12, 2012; smug

Richard Garriott invented the metaverse and created the first metaverse to sell NFTs. He's a visionary and deserves our respect.

# ? May 11, 2022 01:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > Shroud of the Avatar: Garriott's Ultima MMO successor thing (no more wipes)

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