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Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Tighclops posted:

You ever notice how much of this show is Skype calls over bad CRT monitors

Some of it is video messages being played on bad CRT monitors!

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ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


The Babylon 5 staff

quote:

Oh goddammit it's Bester.

Me:

ThingOne
Jul 30, 2011


Would you like some tofu?



Salad Prong

It's nice to know Bester can feel things other than smug condescension but Jesus Christ he's literally a concentration camp guard in a relationship with a prisoner.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



it's a testament to how likeable Walter Koenig is that you can watch him be a literal gestapo and the best you can work up is a bit of disappointment.

ThingOne
Jul 30, 2011


Would you like some tofu?



Salad Prong

The B5 crew manage to get one up on him just often enough to keep him entertaining.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Yea, i wasn't saying anything about how fun he is to watch (very). Just, often when you see characters being really lovely in a show you actively dislike them. But with bester, because of his actor, you're like "mwah mwah mwah i guess"

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Whatís great about Bester is that he has a different agenda and often the B5 crew thinks theyíve one upped him but they havenít. Also what he does in S3 and S4 is ... hoooo boy.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





The whole use of Bester is really masterful storytelling. These days having a (mostly) bad guy be a compelling character is par for the course, but Bester showed the way.

It's interesting that we didn't see a lot of the psychological fallout from the two "just" wars in the show; the Shadow War and the Earth Civil War. Well, except for Garibaldi really not trusting Lockley. I suppose it just hadn't set in for most people.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!


mllaneza posted:

The whole use of Bester is really masterful storytelling. These days having a (mostly) bad guy be a compelling character is par for the course, but Bester showed the way.

It's interesting that we didn't see a lot of the psychological fallout from the two "just" wars in the show; the Shadow War and the Earth Civil War. Well, except for Garibaldi really not trusting Lockley. I suppose it just hadn't set in for most people.

Oh there's ONE group for whom the Shadow War has a HUGE psychological impact. That'd be the Drakh, of course.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013


ConfusedUs posted:

Vir is probably my favorite character in the show, tbh.

Londo and Gkar are great, but Vir is far more relatable than either. Heís just a dude who wants to do a good job

I get what you're saying, but at the same time when Londo and G'kar get stuck in an elevator together is sublime teevee.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Rappaport posted:

I get what you're saying, but at the same time when Londo and G'kar get stuck in an elevator together is sublime teevee.

Why not both?

Thatís probably the best individual scene in the series.

ThingOne
Jul 30, 2011


Would you like some tofu?



Salad Prong

It does seem pretty convenient that the one weakness of the Shadow vessels is telepaths, something almost every major race has. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just that there has to be more to this than we're being told.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.


ThingOne posted:

It does seem pretty convenient that the one weakness of the Shadow vessels is telepaths, something almost every major race has. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just that there has to be more to this than we're being told.

Season 5 spoiler
It's implied that the Vorlorns secretly engineered and developed the telepath gene in many races to use as pawns against the shadows. I think Lyta outright explains it at some point in season 5? My memory is fuzzy on that one.

Angry Lobster fucked around with this message at 12:19 on May 15, 2020

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

ThingOne posted:

It does seem pretty convenient that the one weakness of the Shadow vessels is telepaths, something almost every major race has. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just that there has to be more to this than we're being told.

Keep watching and don't read the above spoiler.


E: Which I'm not sure if we've discussed it before (we've probably discussed everything at this point), but that makes me think that (post S5 spoiler) they hint (perhaps heavily) that the Vorlons are actually the ones that broke "the truce" first. The Vorlons and Shadows were left behind to guide the younger races and not directly interfere. The Vorlons started genetically manipulating the younger races against the Shadows, so the Shadows started escalating as well. Although the Vorlons would have done so because the Shadows started putting sentients in their ships? Unclear. Regardless I like the way that we are led to believe the Vorlons are the "good guys" but it turns out they are just as bad if not worse than the Shadows in the end due to being huge do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do hypocrites.

Doctor Zero fucked around with this message at 12:12 on May 15, 2020

V-Men
Aug 15, 2001

Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

ThingOne posted:

It does seem pretty convenient that the one weakness of the Shadow vessels is telepaths, something almost every major race has. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just that there has to be more to this than we're being told.

There's a reason that the Narn don't have telepaths and why G'Kar propositioned Talia in season 1. But also because season 1 G'Kar was a sleazy skank.

ThingOne
Jul 30, 2011


Would you like some tofu?



Salad Prong

V-Men posted:

There's a reason that the Narn don't have telepaths and why G'Kar propositioned Talia in season 1. But also because season 1 G'Kar was a sleazy skank.

Right, at the end of the episode Garibaldi reads about how the Narn telepaths were all wiped out during the last Shadow War. It's kind of incredible how far G'kar's come this season; his conversation with Delenn would've ended very differently last season or even earlier this season and even now it took everything he had not to kill her.

hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001



V-Men posted:

There's a reason that the Narn don't have telepaths and why G'Kar propositioned Talia in season 1. But also because season 1 G'Kar was a sleazy skank.

I love how in s4 they call back to him being a creeper what with leaving his fake eye in Delenn and Sheridan's bedroom during their honeymoon...

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer

hope and vaseline posted:

I love how in s4 they call back to him being a creeper what with leaving his fake eye in Delenn and Sheridan's bedroom during their honeymoon...

"Woo-hoo?"

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I would question where the line is between guidance and interference. Like if the Shadows were doing their own "guidance" before the Vorlons broke the truce, that would mean that they were encouraging the races to fight, which is a lot less defensible. It's plausible that they went and talked some races into wiping out one of the Vorlons' pet projects before the Vorlons decided to gather a coalition to wipe them out.

Also I'd say that most of the alien plots are better than the humans, but then I'd still put Earth politics as more interesting than the Minbari most of the time.

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


Another CGI rerender mixed with live action. https://youtu.be/Ge6BPyfxVw0

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



Rewatching this series, and something I've noticed is how everyone has a tragic backstory.

Ivanova lost her whole family to various circumstances, Garibaldi was a drunk and lost friends because of his work, Sheriden lost his wife to ZA'HA'DUM, Marcus's brother was KIA for the rangers, Delenn lost her mentor and father figure (and spiritual leader for her culture), Vir and Londo were both considered huge jokes in their respective families and G'kar was literally a survivor of genocide.

The only one who didn't have a sob story background is Incel Lennier and Frankin.




Saw Comes The Inquisitor, and man is that a rough episode.


Putting aside the whole nonsense about Jack The Ripper (which is really sci fi 90's in a nutshell, I guess) the whole "inquisition" is working off the idea that Delenn and Sheridan consider themselves some sort of chosen ones with a great destiny entrusted to them by the universe, and it's just...such a weird idea to have? Like it's hybris of the highest order to imagine that sort of thing. Like for real, Delenn has a healthy confidence if she buys into the whole "destiny" nonsense.

AntherUslessPoster
Feb 12, 2019

Universe existed for 13.8 billion years before humans and will exist for trillions years more after the last human is forgotten.
So what was your problem again?


Well, Lennier is in unanswered love with Delenn and DOc has stim addiction and that thing that sent him travelling the universe so all of them are tragic in a way

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Iím just finishing Season 2 after introducing the series to my girlfriend, and why has it taken me over 20 years to realize Keffer bares more than a passing resemblance to Bashir on DS9?

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



AntherUslessPoster posted:

Well, Lennier is in unanswered love with Delenn and DOc has stim addiction and that thing that sent him travelling the universe so all of them are tragic in a way

Well sure but those both happened during the course of the show, and in Franklins case not until mid season 2, it wasn't part of their tragic backstory. I've seen better odds of having living parents in a superhero comic.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Isn't he on B5 because he refused to provide research on Alien biology for weapon making? Basically supposed to have dead ended his career.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


McCloud posted:

Well sure but those both happened during the course of the show, and in Franklins case not until mid season 2, it wasn't part of their tragic backstory. I've seen better odds of having living parents in a superhero comic.

Franklin's father was absent for most of his childhood and strict when he was around. He watched one of his friends die from exposure to space due to an airlock prank gone wrong. He later spent time in prison because he refused to turn over notes about the Minbari to Earth Force after the war started.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Now do the guy who worked the counter at the post office.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


TraderStav posted:

Isn't he on B5 because he refused to provide research on Alien biology for weapon making? Basically supposed to have dead ended his career.

Yes. Also Zack, like many of the B5 security staff, was in hard times before Garibaldi hired him, and Talia was Miss Cult Mentality 2258.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.


TraderStav posted:

Now do the guy who worked the counter at the post office.

No, he's just a straight-up dick.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



So from this we can conclude Babylon 5 was a magnet for human trainwrecks. See also: Sinclair


Something else I noticed re: the vorlon, spoiler for season 2 finale I thought Kosh looked kind of familiar...






I gotta tell ya, knowing they look like handsome squidward kind of takes away the mystique of the vorlons

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk


they look like handsome squidward to you

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



That's true.

To some he looked like handsome Drazi, to others he looked like Handsome G'kar!

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

McCloud posted:

So from this we can conclude Babylon 5 was a magnet for human trainwrecks. See also: Sinclair


Something else I noticed re: the vorlon, spoiler for season 2 finale I thought Kosh looked kind of familiar...






I gotta tell ya, knowing they look like handsome squidward kind of takes away the mystique of the vorlons



I love this post so much.

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


McCloud posted:

I've noticed is how everyone has a tragic backstory.


Read or listen to Becoming Superman: My Journey From Poverty to Hollywood

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


McCloud posted:

So from this we can conclude Babylon 5 was a magnet for human trainwrecks.

Much like Babylon 5's casting calls.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


McCloud posted:

That's true.

To some he looked like handsome Drazi, to others he looked like Handsome G'kar!

Oh, so regular G'kar?

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Oh, so regular G'kar?

Thank you, I was about to say!

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


McCloud posted:

So from this we can conclude Babylon 5 was a magnet for human trainwrecks.

Of all species. But there's a reason for that, and Londo spells it out very early on: nobody expected B5 to succeed. The first three stations were sabotaged, the fourth vanished. And despite what Sinclair says about humans keeping trying until it stuck, B5 was half the size of the other Babylon stations and was only built at all because the Minbari agreed to put up some of the cash if they got final refusal on its commander.

So yes, when it came to staffing B5 Earthforce mainly sent people who had nowhere else to go. The Centauri sent their embarrassments as well. The Narn took it seriously because they were desperate for respect and the Minbari of course knew what was really going on, but nobody else did.

Gnome de plume
Sep 5, 2006

Hell.
Fucking.
Yes.


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Oh, so regular G'kar?

This is what Londo saw, he just didn't want to admit it

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Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


If I remember right not all of the first three were sabotaged, at least one just "exploded" or something. Which kind of makes sense, I feel like the Babylon stations were completely unprecedented feats of space engineering at the time.

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