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McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



MrL_JaKiri posted:

Oh, so regular G'kar?

That would explain why his room was...well visited?

I guess hot pink really was his color



Jedit posted:

Of all species. But there's a reason for that, and Londo spells it out very early on: nobody expected B5 to succeed. The first three stations were sabotaged, the fourth vanished. And despite what Sinclair says about humans keeping trying until it stuck, B5 was half the size of the other Babylon stations and was only built at all because the Minbari agreed to put up some of the cash if they got final refusal on its commander.

So yes, when it came to staffing B5 Earthforce mainly sent people who had nowhere else to go. The Centauri sent their embarrassments as well. The Narn took it seriously because they were desperate for respect and the Minbari of course knew what was really going on, but nobody else did.

You know, the minbari acted awfully uppity for a race that basically had a cheat sheet for a thousand years.

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TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Well, didn't most of the not know? Only the inner circle did, so if they were driving all the success it stands to reason those on the outside benefiting from it would get real snobby about being top dogs.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk


I like how they never explain how the first three got zotted. Happened, moving on, zoom zoom

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

zoot zoot

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



sebmojo posted:

I like how they never explain how the first three got zotted. Happened, moving on, zoom zoom

The first 3 all blew up because no one ever listens to Zathras.

Dirty
Apr 8, 2003

Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates


As I recall, JMS said he called it Babylon 5 because of the 5-year story.

When his pitch was picked up and developed into a series and the name was everywhere I guess it stuck. It sorta meant that we have to slightly stretch credulity to accept that a calamity that might have befallen a project once or twice, happened 4 times and still they came back for more with the same name.

Babylon 1: "Sir, I've got really bad news about the Babylon Station construction project!"
Babylon 2: "Sir, you're not gonna believe this, we tightened security, but it happened again!"
Babylon 3: "You might want to sit down for this."
Babylon 4: "Okay, the good news is, it didn't explode."

Babylon 5 planning committee:
"Guys, do you think maybe the name has sort of negative connotations at this point? In the mind of the taxpayers, politicians, anyone who would ever want to set foot on it?"

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





The first one sank into the swamp

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


I thought it was implied 1-3 were also sabotaged by the shadows?

V-Men
Aug 15, 2001

Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

McCloud posted:

Rewatching this series, and something I've noticed is how everyone has a tragic backstory.

Ivanova lost her whole family to various circumstances, Garibaldi was a drunk and lost friends because of his work, Sheriden lost his wife to ZA'HA'DUM, Marcus's brother was KIA for the rangers, Delenn lost her mentor and father figure (and spiritual leader for her culture), Vir and Londo were both considered huge jokes in their respective families and G'kar was literally a survivor of genocide.

The only one who didn't have a sob story background is Incel Lennier and Frankin.




Corwin's backstory was that he had the lowest grade in his entire Academy graduating class.

Soylent Pudding posted:

I thought it was implied 1-3 were also sabotaged by the shadows?

In my headcanon it was sabotaged by the Anla-shok just so they'd have to build 4 and 5.

V-Men fucked around with this message at 12:46 on May 19, 2020

Eighties ZomCom
Sep 10, 2008






Dirty posted:

As I recall, JMS said he called it Babylon 5 because of the 5-year story.

When his pitch was picked up and developed into a series and the name was everywhere I guess it stuck. It sorta meant that we have to slightly stretch credulity to accept that a calamity that might have befallen a project once or twice, happened 4 times and still they came back for more with the same name.

Babylon 1: "Sir, I've got really bad news about the Babylon Station construction project!"
Babylon 2: "Sir, you're not gonna believe this, we tightened security, but it happened again!"
Babylon 3: "You might want to sit down for this."
Babylon 4: "Okay, the good news is, it didn't explode."

Babylon 5 planning committee:
"Guys, do you think maybe the name has sort of negative connotations at this point? In the mind of the taxpayers, politicians, anyone who would ever want to set foot on it?"

I wonder why it never occurred to JMs to go the DS9 route and just have another 4 Babylon stations around the galaxy that are only mentioned in passing, maybe having different purposes to Babylon 5.

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

Waiting for his chance

There's a lot of cheap drama in the phrase "last of the Babylon stations," but not if you mean it was the last one built and the others are all chilling out elsewhere.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


Zorak of Michigan posted:

There's a lot of cheap drama in the phrase "last of the Babylon stations," but not if you mean it was the last one built and the others are all chilling out elsewhere.

There was justification in it being known as the last of the Babylon Stations from the perspective of the original narration in the pilot, which is Londo telling a story in the past tense.

It makes less sense in S1 when Sinclair is talking about B5 in the past tense when it was still around after he was gone.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Soylent Pudding posted:

I thought it was implied 1-3 were also sabotaged by the shadows?

It was obviously Jinxo, just delayed a bit for B5.

Action Jacktion
Jun 3, 2003


Soylent Pudding posted:

I thought it was implied 1-3 were also sabotaged by the shadows?

It's never specifically addressed on the show but JMS confirmed that's what happened.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Soylent Pudding posted:

I thought it was implied 1-3 were also sabotaged by the shadows?

The show implies it pretty hard on its own with a pair of Shadow ships towing a bigass bomb towards Babylon 4 that'd almost certainly create a fourth "mysterious explosion" for the Babylon project.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005






Dirty posted:

As I recall, JMS said he called it Babylon 5 because of the 5-year story.

When his pitch was picked up and developed into a series and the name was everywhere I guess it stuck. It sorta meant that we have to slightly stretch credulity to accept that a calamity that might have befallen a project once or twice, happened 4 times and still they came back for more with the same name.

Babylon 1: "Sir, I've got really bad news about the Babylon Station construction project!"
Babylon 2: "Sir, you're not gonna believe this, we tightened security, but it happened again!"
Babylon 3: "You might want to sit down for this."
Babylon 4: "Okay, the good news is, it didn't explode."

Babylon 5 planning committee:
"Guys, do you think maybe the name has sort of negative connotations at this point? In the mind of the taxpayers, politicians, anyone who would ever want to set foot on it?"

It probably would've strained credulity less if the Babylon station concept had been applied over a longer period than ten years. Something like:

Babylon 1: late 21st/early 22nd century EA facility in Earth orbit, predates first contact with aliens, destroyed by anti-globalist terrorists
Babylon 2: a frontier waystation built shortly after contact with the Centauri for trade and cultural exchange with aliens, eventually overtaken by further technology and colony development and abandoned
Babylon 3-5: as written

Thanks for reading my fanfic, please rate and comment

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Nah, because part of B5 is the scope of its construction. Having prior successful stations diminishes that. It becomes just a new model, not a fantastic feat of deep-space engineering and diplomacy.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


Neddy Seagoon posted:

Nah, because part of B5 is the scope of its construction. Having prior successful stations diminishes that. It becomes just a new model, not a fantastic feat of deep-space engineering and diplomacy.

Which is funny because B5 was the one they made with the leftovers and change from the couch cushions

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



I think it's funny because the bloody minbari knew what was gonna happen to the first 4, and instead of gently suggesting they make the first 3 really crappy and then really spring for the last two they just let the humans plow a substantial amount of effort, credits and manpower into what they know will be 3 castles that will fall over and catch on fire

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






Biscuit Hider

McCloud posted:

I think it's funny because the bloody minbari knew what was gonna happen to the first 4, and instead of gently suggesting they make the first 3 really crappy and then really spring for the last two they just let the humans plow a substantial amount of effort, credits and manpower into what they know will be 3 castles that will fall over and catch on fire

It was absolutely the right move. Even if the Minbari and the humans were destined to be cosmic space bros in the end it was to the Minbari's benefit to keep the Earth Alliance as weak as possible. Having a recently hostile opponent waste resources on some giant space station boondoggles instead of making another fleet of warships was good insurance in case the prophecies left out a bit where the EA came at the Minbari again.

Horizon Burning
Oct 23, 2019


Neddy Seagoon posted:

The show implies it pretty hard on its own with a pair of Shadow ships towing a bigass bomb towards Babylon 4 that'd almost certainly create a fourth "mysterious explosion" for the Babylon project.

I thought War Without End says that the Shadows only tried the 'blow it up with a big bomb' strategy because they didn't recognise what B4 was until it was about to come online. As far as I'm aware, the earlier stations had some combination of accidents and sabotage by anti-alien racists.

JMS said: "The B1-B3 sabotages had nothing at all to do with the B4 situation; it was just done by forces opposed to the very notion of the Babylon Project.

"The first 3 Babylon stations never got much past the very earliest stages of construction, just some hull elements, that sort of thing, nothing that could be recognized. Other forces took them out, mainly for political reasons."

Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 01:59 on May 20, 2020

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



Pillbug

I guess if you never got past the initial structure stages it might become some kind of pride project. Like gently caress you were going to do this. Then 4 happens a few days before going online. Then you have to try again but you have no money and people are getting tired of it.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


TK-42-1 posted:

I guess if you never got past the initial structure stages it might become some kind of pride project. Like gently caress you were going to do this. Then 4 happens a few days before going online. Then you have to try again but you have no money and people are getting tired of it.

There's an illustration of the Babylon Station's completed exterior hull in the Chameleon Eclectic RPG, but you'd complete the hull before doing anything else. It's also easier to sabotage a station that size after the hull is complete and they're letting people on board to work. By the time they got to B4 they probably moved in the security staff before anything else.

As for why B5 wasn't sabotaged, it's probably because the Minbari were funding it. "Anti-alien interests" makes me think of nothing so much as MAGA chickenhawks who will rattle their sabres but fall meaningfully silent before getting to the point of actual war because they know they'll be destroyed. It's much easier for that kind of fascist coward to make war on "the internal enemy" than to risk anything at all.

AntherUslessPoster
Feb 12, 2019

Universe existed for 13.8 billion years before humans and will exist for trillions years more after the last human is forgotten.
So what was your problem again?


Hot take - it was minbari grey council behind b1-b3 because they needed that 4th for prophecies to come true

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Jedit posted:

As for why B5 wasn't sabotaged, it's probably because the Minbari were funding it. "Anti-alien interests" makes me think of nothing so much as MAGA chickenhawks who will rattle their sabres but fall meaningfully silent before getting to the point of actual war because they know they'll be destroyed. It's much easier for that kind of fascist coward to make war on "the internal enemy" than to risk anything at all.

I don't think it'd be a threat of another war so much as they'd know drat-well the Minbari would be the kind to send in their own people to investigate who pissed all over their peace effort and make sure they don't do it again.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


Neddy Seagoon posted:

I don't think it'd be a threat of another war so much as they'd know drat-well the Minbari would be the kind to send in their own people to investigate who pissed all over their peace effort and make sure they don't do it again.

Same difference. We know that anti-alien organisations like Home Guard have support in the military, and the sabotage of B1-3 likely couldn't have happened without it. Now among that support there are certainly total loving loonies saying "it's not 2245, this time we'll beat them!", but those people are not the people who make the plans.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer

Wholesome Twitter thread: B5 characters reacting to COVID-19 lockdown.

https://twitter.com/_lizbarr/status/1262957573147439115

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Neroon's was unexpected and perfect.

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008


Bester's last entry did me in It IS the kind of thing Bester would do, I feel.

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



Pillbug

yeah all of those are pretty spot on

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






Biscuit Hider

Bieeanshee posted:

Wholesome Twitter thread: B5 characters reacting to COVID-19 lockdown.

https://twitter.com/_lizbarr/status/1262957573147439115

Excellent

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

Fun Shoe

Bieeanshee posted:

Wholesome Twitter thread: B5 characters reacting to COVID-19 lockdown.

https://twitter.com/_lizbarr/status/1262957573147439115

Amazing.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


My god.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!



I canít remember if I ever rated this thread or not, but I just gave it another 5 just in case.

Baron von der Loon
Feb 12, 2009

Awesome!


Spent the evening watching Season 3's "Voices of Authority" and "Dust To Dust", two episodes whom I assumed were going to be fairly arc-free.


There's so much stuff I forgot about in the third season. Things are seriously starting to ramp up. From the Earth Government starting to try and take more control over the station, the evidence against President Clark, the alliance with the First Ones... and then the stuff with G'Kar came up.

I didn't remember any of this. I assumed the Dust-thing was just going to be a standard crime-solving episode with Bester and Garibaldi, but wow, that vision with G'Kar at the end was the good stuff. I seriously got goosebumps as I realised who he was talking to at the end, and what he was saying.

"I have always been here."

Absolutely loving this rewatch. What a great build-up to the big events.

Babylon 5 is an excellent series, is what I'm saying.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


I remember finding that to be a very profound episode. I loved it.

Youíre really making me jones for a rewatch, even though I just did my first time through a few months back.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



The thing with Babylon 5 is that every episode has small little building blocks to the greater narrative. I don't think there's any episode that is safely skippable past season 1.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


McCloud posted:

The thing with Babylon 5 is that every episode has small little building blocks to the greater narrative. I don't think there's any episode that is safely skippable past season 1.

I had about 4 episodes loaded up to challenge you until the last three words of your statement.

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McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



TraderStav posted:

I had about 4 episodes loaded up to challenge you until the last three words of your statement.

In lieu of a smug Mollari emoji, please picture this guy with an outrageous Centauri hairdo

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