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jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!


The_Doctor just got to A Spider in the Web in the young races thread and is geeking out over the conspiracy stuff. I can't bear to tell him that he'll never hear from Bureau 13 again because of the rights problem!

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Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Midjack posted:

So then say nothing or say why it's bad instead of just going "omigod it's soooo bad you wouldn't believe, OH NO DON'T LOOK FOR IT" like most of the replies did. Don't treat newcomers like dumbshits, treat them like equals.

Iím ... pretty sure thatís exactly what I did. I didnít break it down in detail in case they wanted to read it themselves.

Gnome de plume
Sep 5, 2006

Hell.
Fucking.
Yes.


Now I'm wishing we had the story of Josh and Borden, kind-of-friends on opposite sides who just aren't into the ancient clandestine war as everyone else.

Kind of like in Good Omens.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk


Gnome de plume posted:

Now I'm wishing we had the story of Josh and Borden, kind-of-friends on opposite sides who just aren't into the ancient clandestine war as everyone else.

Kind of like in Good Omens.

Lmao me too, goddam

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!

ultrafilter posted:

Were the season titles ever displayed anywhere outside the internet and the box sets? I think it might be a point of interest for the blind thread, but I don't want to even mention them if a regular viewer back then wouldn't have known about them. Amazon doesn't display them.

I changed my mind on this one. Since the season titles were announced on the usenet group and printed on the box sets, I don't think they're too spoilery. I will make it hard for people to accidentally see them, though.

Small White Dragon
Nov 23, 2007

No relation.

jng2058 posted:

he'll never hear from Bureau 13 again because of the rights problem!

...rights problem?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!

Small White Dragon posted:

...rights problem?

The phrase Bureau 13 was trademarked by a computer game that no one remembers.

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Small White Dragon posted:

...rights problem?

There was a Bureau 13 video game released around the same time as Spider in the Web was broadcast. JMS was unaware of the game when he created Bureau 13, but it was decided to remove them to avoid any further issues.

Curiously, when DS9 brought in their secret underground organization, they went with the similar Section 31...

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


ultrafilter posted:

The phrase Bureau 13 was trademarked by a computer game that no one remembers.

I'm sure you mean the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries.

1000 Brown M and Ms
Oct 22, 2008

F:\DL>quickfli 4-clowns.fli

Jedit posted:

He's going to be annoyed when he finds out why 3rd August 2258 was given as a Wednesday when it's actually going to be a Tuesday.

Was there actually a reason or was it just a production mistake?

Son of Sam-I-Am
Feb 12, 2002





head58 posted:

Didn’t he send her a limo full of flowers or something, just like he has Corwin do in that super awful episode?

The story JMS tells is that he took her to dinner, I think to celebrate renewal for season 5, but she misinterpreted the rose he gave her as a forward gesture. Knowing notorious story changer JMS it's probably impossible to know his true motive, but to me it seems likely it was supposed to be one of those "it was just innocent, unless... you feel the same way?" things.

Jedit posted:

He's going to be annoyed when he finds out why 3rd August 2258 was given as a Wednesday when it's actually going to be a Tuesday.

1000 Brown M and Ms posted:

Was there actually a reason or was it just a production mistake?

I didn't want to post even this over there, but I'm guessing someone just didn't take into account that every fourth century year (including 2000) was not a leap year.

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

I didn't want to post even this over there, but I'm guessing someone just didn't take into account that every fourth century year (including 2000) was not a leap year.

Unless Iím missing something, 2000 was a leap year? Certainly there was a February 29th, 2000.

Son of Sam-I-Am
Feb 12, 2002





Apparently I had it backwards 2000 was a leap year but 2100 and 2200 won't be.

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



Pillbug

Wait what? Why?

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Because basing our timekeeping system on rotations, lunar orbits, and solar revolutions, none of which have the slightest thing to do with each other, is not the intention of a loving god race of transdimensional space beings

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




TK-42-1 posted:

Wait what? Why?

A year isn't exactly 365.25 days either, so you have to do an additional one day correction every century or two. I forget exactly how long between those.

Son of Sam-I-Am
Feb 12, 2002





sounds like someone's about to go spelunking in wikipedia

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!


Small White Dragon posted:

...rights problem?

Zaroff posted:

There was a Bureau 13 video game released around the same time as Spider in the Web was broadcast. JMS was unaware of the game when he created Bureau 13, but it was decided to remove them to avoid any further issues.

Curiously, when DS9 brought in their secret underground organization, they went with the similar Section 31...

Technically, it was a series of books, a tabletop RPG, and a video game in a little franchise. It was sort of a Men in Black idea, where Bureau 13 was a bunch of people in a secret government organization with magic, superpowers, and/or guns fighting against supervillains, vampires, and alien invasions....but secretly so that the normal population never hears of it. There wasn't very much of it and it didn't last very long, but it happened to still be an ongoing thing during the '90s when Babylon 5 was on the air. So they complained when JMS used their trademark in his show, and the words Bureau 13 were never spoken again on B5, though of course the concept of the conspiracy that runs EarthGov from behind the scenes kept on going.

Personally, I like to think that Sheridan's hamfisted attempts at conspiracy hunting found him some references to the game franchise, and he just latched onto that as the name for the conspiracy he was after, and he never realized that "Bureau 13" was fictional.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


jng2058 posted:

Technically, it was a series of books, a tabletop RPG, and a video game in a little franchise. It was sort of a Men in Black idea, where Bureau 13 was a bunch of people in a secret government organization with magic, superpowers, and/or guns fighting against supervillains, vampires, and alien invasions....but secretly so that the normal population never hears of it. There wasn't very much of it and it didn't last very long, but it happened to still be an ongoing thing during the '90s when Babylon 5 was on the air. So they complained when JMS used their trademark in his show, and the words Bureau 13 were never spoken again on B5, though of course the concept of the conspiracy that runs EarthGov from behind the scenes kept on going.

Personally, I like to think that Sheridan's hamfisted attempts at conspiracy hunting found him some references to the game franchise, and he just latched onto that as the name for the conspiracy he was after, and he never realized that "Bureau 13" was fictional.

They were so good at keeping it under wraps that nobody ever heard of it.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


The original plan for the sequel to Babylon 5 was for Sheridan to get hit in an attack by the servants of the Shadows and wake up 2 years later having been preserved and revived by Bureau 13 and sent on a mission to save the galaxy from what threat of the Shadows that still remains.

He would then have to assemble a team to help him, with characters like a genetically engineered Drazi, a Pakmara assassin, a powerful telepath criminal, and a Minbari paladin, while also having to find out what his old friends have been doing. G'kar somehow became a vigilante and got stuck in a standoff with 3 gangs at once and Delenn became a high-powered hacker obsessed with revenge.

Come to think of it, the blind thread just got up to the aliens who kill their son because he had surgery, I wonder how they'll react to the plague. I always thought that episode did similar themes much better.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Absurd Alhazred posted:

They were so good at keeping it under wraps that nobody ever heard of it.

They were so good at marketing that on a trivia contest giveaway on AOL like 5 people showed up, and only I got any questions right.

I don't think I even have the prizes anymore.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk


SlothfulCobra posted:

The original plan for the sequel to Babylon 5 was for Sheridan to get hit in an attack by the servants of the Shadows and wake up 2 years later having been preserved and revived by Bureau 13 and sent on a mission to save the galaxy from what threat of the Shadows that still remains.

He would then have to assemble a team to help him, with characters like a genetically engineered Drazi, a Pakmara assassin, a powerful telepath criminal, and a Minbari paladin, while also having to find out what his old friends have been doing. G'kar somehow became a vigilante and got stuck in a standoff with 3 gangs at once and Delenn became a high-powered hacker obsessed with revenge.

Come to think of it, the blind thread just got up to the aliens who kill their son because he had surgery, I wonder how they'll react to the plague. I always thought that episode did similar themes much better.

You left out babcom attaining sentience and creating a hot robot girlfriend for keffer, who'd been resurrected into a flawed body using the life draining machine

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


TK-42-1 posted:

Wait what? Why?

Leap years don't happen on the century rollovers, except if it's divisible by 400. So the year 2400 will be a leap year.

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

Fun Shoe

head58 posted:

Didnít he send her a limo full of flowers or something, just like he has Corwin do in that super awful episode?

I thought the benevolent parasite alien historians were a pretty neat concept, though I agree it and the rest of the episode was not executed well.

It's me, the bad idea liker.

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


McCloud posted:

her girlfriend was murdered and then dissected.

Do any books actually show that to be true? I think Bester said that to get an emotional response (that, in universe, leads to internal thoughts becoming "louder" and allow telepats to read mind without detecting).

Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

The story JMS tells is that he took her to dinner, I think to celebrate renewal for season 5, but she misinterpreted the rose he gave her as a forward gesture. Knowing notorious story changer JMS it's probably impossible to know his true motive, but to me it seems likely it was supposed to be one of those "it was just innocent, unless... you feel the same way?"

From Claudias book.

"Toward the end of season four Joe Straczynski started calling me into his office for private conversations. He didnít do that with many cast members, but I felt that it was a natural progression of the friendship that had been growing over the course of the series. It was common knowledge that Iíd broken up with John (Flinn director of photography on Babylon 5), but I hadnít advertised the fact that I had started seeing a new paramour. One day Joe asked me if Iíd like to go and see a show with him. I agreed, and never gave it a second thought. We were all pretty buddy-buddy on the set and the cast and crew would often socialize after work, though Joe had never asked me to go anywhere with him before. I suddenly knew Iíd made a mistake in accepting his invitation when the next day a dozen red roses appeared at my front door. poo poo, this is a date! But maybe it wasnít. Maybe Joe was just being nice. I went out to meet him, and when I saw the black stretch limo pull up any doubts Iíd harbored were washed away. gently caress, this is definitely a date! I was more than a little freaked out. Iím not normally thrown off guard by men, but it does make a difference when your boss, the guy who puts the words in the mouth of your character, who can kill or dishonor your character, asks you out on a date. Itís not entirely inappropriate; this was Hollywood after all, and things like that do happen. But that night it totally threw me for a loop. I wondered what people would think. Here I am, Iíve just come off a long relationship with the director of photography, and now Iím climbing into a limo with the showís creator. And then I started to worry about Joeís expectations. Iíd said yes to seeing the show, Iíd accepted the roses, and then I climbed into the limo with him. How do you give back roses without causing offense? In hindsight, I should have made a joke about the whole thing: Roses? You know, I donít date writers, Joe. I married the last writer I dated, and theyíre still searching for his body. We went to the show, and I endured some awkward conversation. It was clearly an uncomfortable evening for both of us. When he dropped me off back at home I quickly thanked him and closed the door to the limo before he had time to move in for anything physical. It was a small thing, really, just a miscommunication between friends. But these things do change relationships. They change how people act toward one another. After that night I donít think we ever recaptured the trust and friendship that weíd previously enjoyed. Back on set Joe stopped calling me into his office, and Iíd stay in my trailer on breaks and head home straight after work."

MikusR fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Jun 22, 2020

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007






Biscuit Hider

Edit: nope

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

Apparently I had it backwards 2000 was a leap year but 2100 and 2200 won't be.

Yep, and that's evidently the same mistake JMS made while calculating the date.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.


Speaking of Claudia's book, Babylon Confidential is a parade of sadness with ocasional funny anecdotes.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


Angry Lobster posted:

Speaking of Claudia's book, Babylon Confidential is a parade of sadness with ocasional funny anecdotes.

And the story of how Babylon 5 killed Princess Diana.

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


Angry Lobster posted:

Speaking of Claudia's book, Babylon Confidential is a parade of sadness with ocasional funny anecdotes.

Read (or better listen to Londo reading) Becoming Superman. That book goes places.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

MikusR posted:

Read (or better listen to Londo reading) Becoming Superman. That book goes places.

WHAT.

Please tell me he does the accent.

Audiobook producer going "Uh, Peter, what the fu--" JMS: "Just let him. He won't stop."

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


MikusR posted:

Read (or better listen to Londo reading) Becoming Superman. That book goes places.

I bought it on Kindle not knowing Peter did the narration. Looks like a second order is called for.

I haven't gotten to it yet

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Angry Lobster posted:

Speaking of Claudia's book, Babylon Confidential is a parade of sadness with ocasional funny anecdotes.

Both accounts of the date place it in late S4, so it couldnít have had an effect on anything beyond Ivanovaís endpoint in SiL. Itís far more likely that JMS picked up on the tenor of Claudiaís actual life stories and slotted Ivanova into them, although some of that may just be the uncanny casting.

It is interesting, given Becoming Superman, that a substantial number of B5 performers either were alchoholics or recovering alchoholics or drug addicts or recovering drug addicts. Maybe thatís just down to probabilities and distributions in that population at that time, though.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Narsham posted:

Both accounts of the date place it in late S4, so it couldnít have had an effect on anything beyond Ivanovaís endpoint in SiL. Itís far more likely that JMS picked up on the tenor of Claudiaís actual life stories and slotted Ivanova into them, although some of that may just be the uncanny casting.

It is interesting, given Becoming Superman, that a substantial number of B5 performers either were alchoholics or recovering alchoholics or drug addicts or recovering drug addicts. Maybe thatís just down to probabilities and distributions in that population at that time, though.

Most of the proven non-fuckups who were going to do genre were already hoovered up by DS9.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Narsham posted:

It is interesting, given Becoming Superman, that a substantial number of B5 performers either were alchoholics or recovering alchoholics or drug addicts or recovering drug addicts. Maybe thatís just down to probabilities and distributions in that population at that time, though.

The show didn't have money for stars, they had to get Z-list actors.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.


Well I suppose all the actors with addiction problems were either having troubles finding employment, were cheaper or both.

MikusR posted:

Read (or better listen to Londo reading) Becoming Superman. That book goes places.

Ok, I need to read/listen that book.

Angry Lobster fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jun 22, 2020

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


Vavrek posted:

WHAT.

Please tell me he does the accent.


Unfortunately only a line or two at the begining.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

gently caress yeah itís on audible and I have a poo poo load of credits I have no idea what to do with since I no longer have a commute. Grabbed it.

I also have a physical copy but so worth it hear hear that accent again even if itís super brief.

E: Oh hey Claudia Christianís book is on there too. Grabbed it.

E: E: hold on. I thought her name was Christiansen. Did I slip into a parallel universe, or is this some kind of Mandela effect thing going on? Or it could be Iím just an idiot.

Doctor Zero fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jun 22, 2020

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Doctor Zero posted:

or is this some kind of Mandela effect thing going on? Or it could be I’m just an idiot.

These are the same thing (and it's always been Christian)

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Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

These are the same thing (and it's always been Christian)

Well, I more meant did anyone else also think that, but thanks for confirming.

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