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Goast
Jul 23, 2011


CainFortea posted:

Splooge tanks.

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abrosheen
Oct 28, 2010


I finished watching season 1 on Google play, and started season 2 on Vudu. I see the difference in the cg, it is very noticably better to me. But I noticed right away that all the non cg stuff was better on Google play. I did a side by side of one episode, and the non cg on Google is actually legit widescreen and I think it's also less grainy. So no matter what we have to lose something to watch depending on choice. Why the hell is there no fully decent version of this drat show?

Son of Sam-I-Am
Feb 12, 2002





WB, or specifically someone high up at WB, still detests it, according to JMS.

Zat
Jan 15, 2008

I SUPPORT ALL THE PREDATORS


abrosheen posted:

I finished watching season 1 on Google play, and started season 2 on Vudu. I see the difference in the cg, it is very noticably better to me. But I noticed right away that all the non cg stuff was better on Google play. I did a side by side of one episode, and the non cg on Google is actually legit widescreen and I think it's also less grainy. So no matter what we have to lose something to watch depending on choice. Why the hell is there no fully decent version of this drat show?

That is absolutely true.

Here's an explanation on why the widescreen version is such a mess (at times great, other times dogshit): https://www.engadget.com/2018-06-22...eo-quality.html

Or for a more technical description: https://www.modeemi.fi/~leopold/Bab...VDTransfer.html

The gist of it is: "The main problem is that while the complete series (except The Gathering) was shot in a widescreen aspect ratio, special effects shots were not properly prepared in order to create a good-quality widescreen presentation. Even worse, [...] the current methods of making effects widescreen are far from ideal."

Zat fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jul 26, 2020

AntherUslessPoster
Feb 12, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 27 days!


Iymarra posted:

I really, REALLY wonder if the doctor is playing a long game here, given the comment about 'Grey' sector. Still, a nice synopsis.

He was attentive to details before, even slightest ones. Maybe he's too good at watching sci-fi and he's got a great memory, idk.
But are there really a lot of 'grey' things going in other shows so 'grey' becomes a namesake for 'something shady'?

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


AntherUslessPoster posted:

He was attentive to details before, even slightest ones. Maybe he's too good at watching sci-fi and he's got a great memory, idk.
But are there really a lot of 'grey' things going in other shows so 'grey' becomes a namesake for 'something shady'?

He only uses the word "grey" in the context of Grey Sector, so that's not an issue. Also, if he's got a great memory then why is he referring to the Babylon Triangle as the Grey Sector Triangle? The only person with a worse memory for names than that is Garibaldi himself, who in G17IM refers to Grey Sector as being like the Centauri Triangle.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.


Ayin posted:

Same, except I'm going to barrel on past Just finished 2x22

I'm so glad this thread cued me into the vudu version, thank you. I was dreading have to witness cropped fleet battles.

Yesterday I watched the first episode of season 3 as soon as TheAdvaark posted his review and... I couldn't stop there, I wanted more, I'm weak.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

The vinging has already started. Itís too late for the watchers to vote.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Streaming Services are a 3 edged sword.

abrosheen
Oct 28, 2010


Dr. Franklin is kind of a creep in The Long Dark. He is SUPER handsy with a patient that is physically and psychologically at his mercy.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Franklin is a daytime soap opera doctor who fell through a wormhole and ended up in a serious sci-fi space opera.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!

He got better after he got stabbed.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Seriously I liked him a lot better after walkabout and realized that all that arrogant self righteousness is actually A Thing in his character and he hates himself for it.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


I just rewatched The Long Dark an hour ago and I think it was well intentioned but something happened that caused a scene to drop or the direction was off. While it definitely has Franklin being really inappropriate, I feel that the intention was that during the shock of her sudden grief she leaned toward Franklin and he bought into it hook line and sinker, forgetting what proper decorum should be for a doctor, likely due to his own loneliness which wasn't foreshadowed. If there was one more scene where she was seen processing the loss or highlighted his loneliness it may have worked. I can see that being more of what JMS intended than what we got.

Instead we get creeper Franklin.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!

You kinda got a little of that in some of the first season episodes, but yeah, it's not a good look.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I feel like by TV standards, the relative appropriateness of a relationship was much less of a concern at the time. Especially since most TV was episodic and if there is going to be a romance with a non-regular character, you gotta get the whole thing done in 45 minutes.

Although admittedly the only other adult show from specifically around that time that I watched was DS9, and it's theoretically possible that in the alleged original pitch that DS9 stole half of its grand plan from, maybe there was a note that the doctor was just extremely horny.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


Doctor Zero posted:

Seriously I liked him a lot better after walkabout and realized that all that arrogant self righteousness is actually A Thing in his character and he hates himself for it.

You should probably have realised that in GROPOS, but yeah.

As for The Long Dark: Cobra's pretty much nailed it. Before B5 it was very unusual for any romance on a genre show to not be bottled, so it wasn't remarkable when it happened here. I don't want to say that Franklin's loneliness wasn't foreshadowed, though; after all, he's the only major human character who didn't have their ex show up in S1.

Come to think of it, I don't recall Franklin ever discussing a past relationship. He strikes me as the kind of person who focuses on what he's doing and doesn't notice the lack until it intrudes.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Jedit posted:

You should probably have realised that in GROPOS, but yeah.

Interesting you should say that. My B5 Journey began with the airing of The Gathering and the first few episodes of S1. It seemed okay, but bounced hard off Sinclair's early hammy acting (I still cringe at the delivery of the "Maybe the universe blinked..." line, even though I like him a lot more now.) My dad would watch it every week but I saw maybe 60-70% of them, in particular missing out TKO and GROPOS. Luckily I saw all the most important ones, arc-wise (although of course we didn't know that at the time). In between seasons, a friend convinced me to give it a consistent watch by really digging into the mysterious presented so far, and when S2 started I watched consistently and was thoroughly hooked by about episode 3-4 of S2.

So, yeah I missed GROPOS first go around (and was a little confused when Dodger showed up again, but still got the point).

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDgWXhuDG_E

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm



That might be the first time I've noticed that the Narn cruiser is visibly damaged.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


I'm on the verge of wishing harm to an rear end in a top hat. You all know who.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!


The CGI looks great but the contrast between it and the live shots is bugging me. I wonder how the show would look if someone ran it through a neural net upscaler.

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


Jedit posted:

I'm on the verge of wishing harm to an rear end in a top hat. You all know who.

The Doctor?

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Jedit posted:

I'm on the verge of wishing harm to an rear end in a top hat. You all know who.

?? I donít see any new activity in the new watchers thread. What did I miss?

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


I think they mean the guy who's sitting on all those high-res renders.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


Polaron posted:

I think they mean the guy who's sitting on all those high-res renders.

No, I mean the WB exec who won't allow a HD remaster.

abrosheen
Oct 28, 2010



My god, it's beautiful.

Jedit posted:

No, I mean the WB exec who won't allow a HD remaster.

Also, Zat, thank you for the explanation to my previous question.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



SlothfulCobra posted:

I feel like by TV standards, the relative appropriateness of a relationship was much less of a concern at the time. Especially since most TV was episodic and if there is going to be a romance with a non-regular character, you gotta get the whole thing done in 45 minutes.

Although admittedly the only other adult show from specifically around that time that I watched was DS9, and it's theoretically possible that in the alleged original pitch that DS9 stole half of its grand plan from, maybe there was a note that the doctor was just extremely horny.

I kind of feel like it was a product of its time somehow. In the 90's I don't think too many people blinked that this girl hooks up with someone from the main cast, even under those circumstances. I'm sure it happened frequently that the main characters of movies and series were wildly inappropriate by todays standards (A-team, Airwolf, Knightrider, Bond, etc etc)

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Jedit posted:

No, I mean the WB exec who won't allow a HD remaster.

Both of them!

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


OK, now I'm going to come out and say that The Doctor is a fake newbie. There is absolutely no way that anyone legitimately calls Anna Sheridan being alive in 2X16.

Bell_
Sep 3, 2006

Tiny Baltimore




That post made me suspicious, too, but maybe if you watched enough other shows one could pick it up?

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.


He knows because TheDoctor is with them

The Shadows

They are here

Ayin
Jan 6, 2010

Have a great day.

Jedit posted:

OK, now I'm going to come out and say that The Doctor is a fake newbie. There is absolutely no way that anyone legitimately calls Anna Sheridan being alive in 2X16.
Or he saw someone mention it sometime in the past two decades and it's just lurking in his subconscious

Anonymouse Mook
Jul 12, 2006

Showing Vettel the way since 1979



Bell_ posted:

That post made me suspicious, too, but maybe if you watched enough other shows one could pick it up?

I was wondering if it was this. Could it be that with the way modern shows work and try to build up reveals, that these are more predictable to modern viewers in the way that they may not have been on the 1990s?

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


I mean, it is sort of the next logical gutpunch after learning there were any survivors at all.

Horizon Burning
Oct 23, 2019



I don't see why he'd be a fake newbie but if Morden survived then it's entirely possible other people survived, and the Captain's dead wife not being dead would be a pretty standard thing to see. Like Mook says, people are probably 'better' at seeing twists coming.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Mira Furlan having gone on to star in might predispose the viewer to look for hints of twists, as well.

abrosheen
Oct 28, 2010


Sheridan literally says, in a season 2 episode I recently watched, that his wife could still be alive for all he knows. This is when Kosh and Delen are trying to get him to release Morden. They set it up for viewer speculation.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!

About halfway through the series a discussion came up online about the predictability of the series. JMS's response is worth reading. From the guide page for Messages From Earth:

quote:

"We already knew everything this episode revealed."
If I can, let me address one aspect of this, for your consideration.
Back when I was working on MURDER, SHE WROTE, we'd sometimes get letters saying, "This wasn't a good episode because I figured out the ending. It wasn't a surprise." (Which is, to some extent, your point here.)

The problem we had with that particular letter was this: of COURSE you figured it out. Because you were paying attention to all the clues we had put out there in the episode.

There seems to be this notion that nobody should be able to jump ahead, or else something's wrong or bad about the episode. Absolutely not true. If you're going to play fair with the audience, whether it's B5 or M,SW, you've got to put enough bits of information out on the table so that the person who's really following it can figure it out...so that at the end, those who *didn't* figure it out can back up the tape, watch for the clues or leads, and see where it all came from. That's playing fair.

If NObody gets it, you haven't done your job right.

If EVERYbody gets it, you haven't done your job right.

The best case scenario is a bell-shaped curve. Some don't have a clue what's coming, some manage to figure it out, and the majority have a kind of vague sense where it's going, but there are still surprises along the way. If the bell-curve shifts one direction or the other, then you're in trouble.

So far, B5 seems to be hewing right to the bell-curve. For every person who says "okay, this was expected," there's been another saying, "I had no *idea* this was going to happen here, or so fast." (Many of these have been right on this forum, in fact.)

Finally, do bear in mind that you have an advantage here that 99% of all the viewers don't: the discussion here on CIS, and direct comments from me. For instance, I just noted elsewhere that we've got major turns at the end of this season, and one 2/3rds into year 4. Now, if at those points, somebody says, "Well, I knew this was coming, that's bad," I intend to whap them, because the reason they likely knew it was coming was because I *said so* right here.

But that same 99% doesn't have this advantage.

This is the main difference I've noted in the mail that's come in: the net-folks are constantly trying to figure out what's coming up next, treating it like a mystery story (which, really, it's not, any more than ANY novel is a mystery in that you don't necessarily know its turns and twists as you're reading it), whereas the non-netted folks tend to just take it as it comes.

See, that's the other part of this. People on the nets tend to treat it as though it's a mystery novel, and when it doesn't hit that aspect, say it's flawed as a result...when it was never INTENDED to function as a mystery novel. It's a novel period. A mystery novel depends absolutely on the riddle at the center of it. This is a saga, which uses a different structure. It isn't a mystery any more than Lord of the Rings is a mystery, even though when I first read it I was wondering what was going to happen next.

Also, a mystery novel is done when the mystery is finally unraveled. Not so the B5 story. By the end of this season, most of the mysteries will be unraveled, and the pieces laid on the table for all to see. It then becomes a matter of what the characters *do* about it thereafter.

If I'm doing my job right, and setting up things to come properly, and giving all the clues to it, then by definition a certain number of people HAVE to figure out what's coming. As long as it's the smaller portion, that's as it *should* be. So you'll understand why I tend to get in here for a moment when that's held up as something bad or poorly done. (And, again, even you note that the only reason you knew about the shadows on Mars was via reading it here, or others read it via the comics. Again, that's a very small portion of the audience; most I've heard from had NO idea about that aspect of it. If you hadn't read it here, you likely would have been surprised by it.)

Anyway, just something to consider in all of this....

Somebody's who's familiar with science fiction, fantasy and story conventions in general is going to see a lot of what's in B5 coming because it's a fairly typical saga. The details are novel, but the story structure isn't, and it's not trying to hide where it's going from the audience.

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MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




Yeahl, I called that one too when I was first watching. Plenty of other stuff surprised but that one really isn't hard to call.

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