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Maelstache
Feb 25, 2013

I don't have the time to fill out questionnaires


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Well, 5 years earlier but who's counting!

Oh man, what a goof. In my defence, the huge time delay in TNG being run on British TV meant we were still getting "new" episodes several years after the show went off the air.

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MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

I'm a bloomin' mathematical genius!
BOOM BOOM!



Maelstache posted:

Oh man, what a goof. In my defence, the huge time delay in TNG being run on British TV meant we were still getting "new" episodes several years after the show went off the air.

Yeah, I was well confused as a young'un in the nineties when I missed an episode of B5 and couldn't buy it on video the next day to catch up

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

I, too, have lost a Kingdom.


coyo7e posted:

Are there any documentary movies or books on the show's production and all the poo poo that went crazy? I have heard a lot in snippets here and there but it seems like something that'd be a really interesting thing to sit down and watch or read.

There's a bunch of behind-the-scenes interviews and production art here. I can't remember which interviews include it but there was apparently some drama between the CGI guys and Doug Netter.


One cool tidbit is that the Omega-class destroyers were originally intended to launch their fighters from the very edge of the rotating section, using the centripetal force to fling them out like B5's Cobra bays did.

V-Men
Aug 15, 2001

Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

There's a bunch of behind-the-scenes interviews and production art here. I can't remember which interviews include it but there was apparently some drama between the CGI guys and Doug Netter.


One cool tidbit is that the Omega-class destroyers were originally intended to launch their fighters from the very edge of the rotating section, using the centripetal force to fling them out like B5's Cobra bays did.

I'd love to see a cross-section schematic. Starfuries seemed way to big for a dozen to be held inside a destroyer, let alone to allow them to maneuver into docking areas for repair.

turn left hillary!! noo
Feb 12, 2002



We just watched "And the Sky Full of Stars" tonight. The Battle of the Line is such a great story, absolutely stuffed with pathos. It's like, we're going to lose, but we're going to fight anyway because gently caress you, that's why.

That's why I can't even recommend skipping the pilot, because of Sinclair's monologue about it at the end where he throws away his medal. The mystery of the Minbari surrender when they had Earth in their sights and about to pull the trigger, is strewn throughout season 1 and I can't imagine that being so uninteresting as to make a complete watchthrough that bad.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



The monologue is about 2/3 of the way through, in his quarters. This had me confused for a bit.

Speaking of being confused, though, the bit at the end where he's talking to Delenn—she's mystified by the concept of poetry and he has to explain it to her, but then in S1E7 her people have that poet laureate who is the subject of the Earth nativists' intimidation

turn left hillary!! noo
Feb 12, 2002



Oh, was it that early? It's been a month or more since we watched the pilot. Even though I've seen the entire show probably 6 times, I still remember things mostly in broad strokes; the details like that get a little fuzzy very quickly.

Payndz
Sep 22, 2006

Your friend and protege,
Tom Copperfield.


Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

There's a bunch of behind-the-scenes interviews and production art here. I can't remember which interviews include it but there was apparently some drama between the CGI guys and Doug Netter.
IIRC, the guys at Foundation Imaging put their hearts and souls into the VFX for B5, going well beyond what they were asked to do to make the work as impressive as possible given the tight time and the limited budget on the grounds that they were blazing a trail and wanted to show that awesome CG wasn't just for big-budget movies. Then Doug Netter thought "Wait, why should these nerds be getting money from Warner Bros that could be coming to me?", set up Netter Digital Imaging, ordered Foundation to turn over all the art assets to his new company, then fired them. The FI crew were understandably pissed off.

I always thought that the difference was visible on screen. Foundation's space battles were more 'flowing', for want of a better word. NDI's battles tended to be "lots and lots of ships going to screen right shooting at lots and lots of ships going to screen left."

Baka-nin
Jan 25, 2015



Payndz posted:

IIRC, the guys at Foundation Imaging put their hearts and souls into the VFX for B5, going well beyond what they were asked to do to make the work as impressive as possible given the tight time and the limited budget on the grounds that they were blazing a trail and wanted to show that awesome CG wasn't just for big-budget movies. Then Doug Netter thought "Wait, why should these nerds be getting money from Warner Bros that could be coming to me?", set up Netter Digital Imaging, ordered Foundation to turn over all the art assets to his new company, then fired them. The FI crew were understandably pissed off.


Ah I see, an excellent display of the Rodenberry manoeuvre.

Dirty
Apr 8, 2003

Let's get our doughnut on

Payndz posted:

I always thought that the difference was visible on screen. Foundation's space battles were more 'flowing', for want of a better word. NDI's battles tended to be "lots and lots of ships going to screen right shooting at lots and lots of ships going to screen left."

Totally agree - nearly all the memorable space battles are in the first 3 series. In the fourth series, they looked a little mushier. And instead of ships getting chunks blasted away, we had stock explosions placed over them, pretty much how TNG had to do it with physical models.

They did improve, though. No Surrender, No Retreat and Endgame were pretty cool, although right before Endgame, Between Darkness and the Light's battle against the shadow destroyers is pretty weightless.

Kingtheninja
Jul 29, 2004

"You're the best looking guy here."


Finishing up Believers right now (great episode), and I want to echo the sentiment for Sky full of Stars. That ending really got me stoked to find out more about the mysterious ending of the conflict. Do we get answers to that before Sinclair leaves the show? Or does it get answered anyway?

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



They sure do like their scenery-chewing British-accented one-off antagonists on this show, I gotta say I loved the ersatz Malcolm McDowell guy's line about "they fixed you some milk and cookies"

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

I'm a bloomin' mathematical genius!
BOOM BOOM!



Kingtheninja posted:

Finishing up Believers right now (great episode), and I want to echo the sentiment for Sky full of Stars. That ending really got me stoked to find out more about the mysterious ending of the conflict. Do we get answers to that before Sinclair leaves the show? Or does it get answered anyway?

Don't worry, you'll learn about what and why

turn left hillary!! noo
Feb 12, 2002



Data Graham posted:

They sure do like their scenery-chewing British-accented one-off antagonists on this show, I gotta say I loved the ersatz Malcolm McDowell guy's line about "they fixed you some milk and cookies"

I thought of him more as a poor man's Julian Glover.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Don't worry, you'll learn about what and why

Yup.

There's little bits and pieces through the next few seasons, and then it's all laid out in the B5 movie "In the Beginning."

There's 6 B5 movies:

"The Gathering" which also served as the pilot, so you might have already seen that. If not, you should watch it if only for the introduction of an important character later.

Then there's "Thirdspace" which takes place about midway through season 4.

"In the Beginning" is the best of the B5 movies by a LONG shot, in so much as it's very, very good, and the others range from "total poo poo crap" (Legend of the Rangers) to "it was ok, I guess." (the rest.) But it is VERY spoiler-heavy. It gives background details on smaller things hinted at or briefly mentioned in earlier episodes. You shouldn't watch it until after you've finished Season 4.

"River of Souls" takes place sometime in Season 5. It's got Martin Sheen, but that's about all it's got going for it.

"A Call to Arms" takes place after Season 5. It's ok. Served as a sort-of pilot for the B5 spin-off series, "Crusade." Which if you want more B5 in any form you can watch after you watch "A Call to Arms."

"The Legend of the Rangers" comes after "Call to Arms", and it was also intended to be a pilot for another spin-off. It's complete dig poo poo. Like..it's better to not watch it. You'll be tempted for more B5, and think "it can't be that bad." but it is, and it will taint all the other B5 you watched.

Then there are two "short films" made about ten years ago called "The Lost Tales." They're ok. Each is self-contained and pretty much entirely centered on one character.

Kingtheninja
Jul 29, 2004

"You're the best looking guy here."


Holy poo poo, just watched episode 13. I don't even know. Must continue to follow up on this mystery.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

I'm a bloomin' mathematical genius!
BOOM BOOM!



DrBouvenstein posted:

"In the Beginning" is the best of the B5 movies by a LONG shot

It falls too much into the "And Yoda was friends with Chewbacca!" trap, with all the main characters being not only influential in the Shadow War but also interacting significantly with the others.

EvilTaytoMan
Sep 10, 2008

DON'T MOVE OR THE POGO GETS IT

DrBouvenstein posted:

Yup.

There's little bits and pieces through the next few seasons, and then it's all laid out in the B5 movie "In the Beginning."

There's 6 B5 movies:

"The Gathering" which also served as the pilot, so you might have already seen that. If not, you should watch it if only for the introduction of an important character later.

Then there's "Thirdspace" which takes place about midway through season 4.

"In the Beginning" is the best of the B5 movies by a LONG shot, in so much as it's very, very good, and the others range from "total poo poo crap" (Legend of the Rangers) to "it was ok, I guess." (the rest.) But it is VERY spoiler-heavy. It gives background details on smaller things hinted at or briefly mentioned in earlier episodes. You shouldn't watch it until after you've finished Season 4.

"River of Souls" takes place sometime in Season 5. It's got Martin Sheen, but that's about all it's got going for it.

"A Call to Arms" takes place after Season 5. It's ok. Served as a sort-of pilot for the B5 spin-off series, "Crusade." Which if you want more B5 in any form you can watch after you watch "A Call to Arms."

"The Legend of the Rangers" comes after "Call to Arms", and it was also intended to be a pilot for another spin-off. It's complete dig poo poo. Like..it's better to not watch it. You'll be tempted for more B5, and think "it can't be that bad." but it is, and it will taint all the other B5 you watched.

Then there are two "short films" made about ten years ago called "The Lost Tales." They're ok. Each is self-contained and pretty much entirely centered on one character.

There's only one good bit in Legend of the Rangers, and that's when G'Kar finishes talking to the ambassadors. Sadly I can't find a gif or YouTube video of the clip anywhere.

Baka-nin
Jan 25, 2015



Yes Legend of the Rangers is terrible. I remember the Scifi channel had a Babylon 5 week, each day was a marathon of the show ending with one of the films. I think it was in release order because Legend was last, and man was it awful. Not only was it a rather dull story but the very tone of it was noticeably different from the rest of the show, and its plot basically cheapened the struggles in the main show by introducing an even more powerful ancient and secretive alien empire of evil.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



"Believers": drat, someone's reeeeeally got a mad-on for Christian Scientists

turn left hillary!! noo
Feb 12, 2002



JMS has a weird relationship with religion. He describes himself as an atheist but is fascinated by faith, and while he thinks God doesn't exist, he wishes he did. He was also caught up in a cultish sect of Christians for some time (prior to the show) so he has some understanding on both sides of the fence, as it were, and while some of the more egregious examples like unthinking dogmatists understandably get his goat, he's pretty respectful of most other points of view.

Later on, not really a spoiler, Dr. Franklin describes his religious views as "Foundationist" which is basically a searcher who tries to find the truth in all religions. I don't remember if he says it but it strikes me that this is probably the closest to JMS's philosophy.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



Also I'm getting the impression that Netter is a world-class douchebag. He wrote himself into the show as an offscreen General?

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength

Kingtheninja posted:

Holy poo poo, just watched episode 13. I don't even know. Must continue to follow up on this mystery.

Ah yes, the episode introducing our helpful associate Mr. Morden? Good times, good times.

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

Flying the friendly skies in relative safet-oh god the engine fell off


Data Graham posted:

Also I'm getting the impression that Netter is a world-class douchebag. He wrote himself into the show as an offscreen General?

Netter is the president who gets blown up.

Kingtheninja
Jul 29, 2004

"You're the best looking guy here."


Finished Babylon squared. Very curious about the man in the blue spacesuit. And I'm trying to figure out if/how it ties into the shadowy strangers.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


Baka-nin posted:

Yes Legend of the Rangers is terrible.
I think it's worth watching it once. if only to experience this scene in all its amazing and baffling glory.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



Raygereio posted:

I think it's worth watching it once. if only to experience this scene in all its amazing and baffling glory.

Holy gently caress. That's amazing.

That's the kind of thing that must have sounded fantastic on the written page, but...

Burning_Monk
Jan 11, 2005
Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to know

Kingtheninja posted:

Finished Babylon squared. Very curious about the man in the blue spacesuit. And I'm trying to figure out if/how it ties into the shadowy strangers.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.


Kingtheninja posted:

Finished Babylon squared. Very curious about the man in the blue spacesuit. And I'm trying to figure out if/how it ties into the shadowy strangers.

No one ever listens to Zathras.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

You wildly underestimated my liver's ability to metabolize toxins.

Almost every time something comes up in B5 and you think "this seems important I wonder if it'll come up later" the answer is yes.

Also a lot of the times when something happens and you don't even notice it four seasons later it'll come back and your mind is blown. For all B5's flaws I've never seen another show that connects together so well. I don't think there are any episodes that don't connect with the overall plot in some fashion. Some more than others but all of them do at least a bit.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010


Grand Fromage posted:

Almost every time something comes up in B5 and you think "this seems important I wonder if it'll come up later" the answer is yes.

Also a lot of the times when something happens and you don't even notice it four seasons later it'll come back and your mind is blown. For all B5's flaws I've never seen another show that connects together so well. I don't think there are any episodes that don't connect with the overall plot in some fashion. Some more than others but all of them do at least a bit.

The arc of Babylon 5 is basically contained in this one scene

kingturnip
Apr 18, 2008


EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:

Later on, not really a spoiler, Dr. Franklin describes his religious views as "Foundationist" which is basically a searcher who tries to find the truth in all religions. I don't remember if he says it but it strikes me that this is probably the closest to JMS's philosophy.

How well Franklin's faith serves him probably fills any remaining blanks in pretty well.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009



In episode 12, "By Any Means Necessary", holy poo poo has the writing come on by leaps and bounds since the first episode. Remember how I was grousing about clumsy partial/interrupted lines? This time that whole scene between the union boss lady and Sinclair/Garibaldi is just full of lines where they talk over each other and yell to cut each other off while the one who was interrupted keeps on going for a good five or six words that sputter out like a dying dirtbike. It's way more engrossing.

Of course I don't for a minute buy that any strikebreaking in history has actually gone down remotely the way it does in this play-acted googly-eyed rendition, but it was plenty entertaining anyway. And the B story of G'Kar and Londo fighting over a flower was dreadfully fun; they've both just disappeared into their roles.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009




Something tells me I have erred in watching this prematurely.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Data Graham posted:

In episode 12, "By Any Means Necessary", holy poo poo has the writing come on by leaps and bounds since the first episode. Remember how I was grousing about clumsy partial/interrupted lines? This time that whole scene between the union boss lady and Sinclair/Garibaldi is just full of lines where they talk over each other and yell to cut each other off while the one who was interrupted keeps on going for a good five or six words that sputter out like a dying dirtbike. It's way more engrossing.

Of course I don't for a minute buy that any strikebreaking in history has actually gone down remotely the way it does in this play-acted googly-eyed rendition, but it was plenty entertaining anyway. And the B story of G'Kar and Londo fighting over a flower was dreadfully fun; they've both just disappeared into their roles.

That's one of the episodes that makes skipping S1 a bad idea. It's also the first really well directed episode.

shadow puppet of a
Jan 10, 2007

NO TENGO SCORPIO



90's fashions and decor are my 2nd favourite thing about Babylon 5. Look at those high-waisted pleatmaster pants and baggy pastel cloth jackets.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Who cares about fashion. Let's talk about that Daffy Duck poster.

Delsaber
Oct 1, 2013



When the Fashion It So blog finally runs out of TNG episodes I'm sure Babylon 5 will be right up their alley.

Milky Moor
Aug 27, 2006


One of the things I do adore about B5 is how heavily they stuck to the idea that, in two hundred years, no one will have any idea what fashion (see above) or humor (Zooty! Zoot zoot!) or religion (Garibaldi's Pope comment in season 4) will look like.

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Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010


Data Graham posted:

Something tells me I have erred in watching this prematurely.

That is . . . the worst scene in B5. I'm trying to think of a tryhard argument but that is really the low point.

It's actually kinda funny because JMS was a major goon creeper on Claudia. So, him making her do weird sexual stuff and, being a professional actress (who has worked in some adult material) she's 100% willing to do whatever stupid poo poo she's asked. But she isn't going to enjoy it despite how many "extra" instructions the make-up department were given.

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