Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

I don�t know Crusade was decent and really just getting interesting when it was canceled. I think it would have ended up being good.

# ? Sep 18, 2020 14:20

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 05:22

Dirty: Apr 8, 2003; Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates

A few pages ago, there was mention of Garbaldi's glowing eyes. I remember looking for this many years ago on my VHS copy and it had either been edited out or the family VCR was too 90s to get the job done. So I decided to have another look for it because I've heard the story so many times, I began to wonder if it was even true.

It's not on the DVDs, but thanks to a very awful-quality YouTube clip, and for everyone who hasn't seen it before, behold:

# ? Sep 18, 2020 14:48

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

Have you seen the alien city from Messages From Earth?

# ? Sep 18, 2020 14:58

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

ultrafilter posted:

Have you seen the alien city from Messages From Earth?

You mean a show with a small budget in the 90s couldn�t quite pull off CGI environments with the quality of, say, the Mandelorian? What a shock!

Given their resources, the effects ranged from good to still embarrassing (although the worse stuff was Technomage-related and may not have been intended to look any better). Scripting was OK to great, perfomances good or better, plotting looked good from what little we know. If you cut out the TNT interference and watch from what was supposed to be the series start, it�s one of the stronger starts to a 90s sci fi show.

As for the actual early eps that show the worst of the TNT sabotage, there�s a certain enjoyment in seeing JMS troll the execs (you want alien sex? OK!) but they aren�t great.

# ? Sep 18, 2020 15:11

Bell_: Sep 3, 2006; Tiny Baltimore
A billion light years away
A goon's posting the same thing
But he's already turned to dust
And the shitpost we read
Is a billion light-years old
A ghost just like the rest of us

Narsham posted:

As for the actual early eps that show the worst of the TNT sabotage, there’s a certain enjoyment in seeing JMS troll the execs (you want alien sex? OK!) but they aren’t great.

Probably doesn't hold a candle to Earth-style.

# ? Sep 18, 2020 15:16

Dirty: Apr 8, 2003; Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates

ultrafilter posted:

Have you seen the alien city from Messages From Earth?

Narsham posted:

You mean a show with a small budget in the 90s couldn�t quite pull off CGI environments with the quality of, say, the Mandelorian? What a shock!

I don't think that's what he means. I just went and looked it up on the Lurker's Guide as I couldn't remember an alien city being in that episode.

JMS posted:

About the alien city
The executive producer thinks, "He's mistaken, has to be; it must be a series of patterns in the image that look like a city." Being a thorough person, however, the executive producer fires up his copy of the tape, and fast forwards to the shot in question. Pauses, then advances, frame by frame.

Then stops. The executive producer stares at the screen for a very, very long time. Eventually, words form. The executive producer knows that if he posts those words here, not only will they throw him off the system, they will come to his house, burn it down, and sow the ground with salt.

The executive producer knows what that single frame is, knows that it has nothing to do with his show, knows that it's a frame from Hypernauts that somehow crossed into the EFX shot in double-exposure via a computer glitch while rendering. No one saw it. No one noticed it. Until now.

Tomorrow morning, the executive producer is going to make phone calls, and say all the words he can't say here. When he is finished, twenty seven miles of telephone coaxial cable are going to hang melted from the telephone poles. Shortly thereafter, the executive producer is going to put a gun to his head and blow his brains out, in the sure knowledge that if he does not do so, he will most assuredly do it to someone else.

The executive producer thanks you for bringing this to his attention, and would write further, but is currently modeming from a laptop computer on top of his roof, from which he is considering jumping, and the wind up here is causing line noise.

JMS likes to overreact, I guess.

But to answer the question - no, I haven't! I'm not sure how to find that, as there's no description as to where it happens in the episode.

# ? Sep 18, 2020 15:18

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Narsham posted:

You mean a show with a small budget in the 90s couldn�t quite pull off CGI environments with the quality of, say, the Mandelorian? What a shock!

Given their resources, the effects ranged from good to still embarrassing (although the worse stuff was Technomage-related and may not have been intended to look any better). Scripting was OK to great, perfomances good or better, plotting looked good from what little we know. If you cut out the TNT interference and watch from what was supposed to be the series start, it�s one of the stronger starts to a 90s sci fi show.

As for the actual early eps that show the worst of the TNT sabotage, there�s a certain enjoyment in seeing JMS troll the execs (you want alien sex? OK!) but they aren�t great.

It's not as bad as Blake's 7, whose budget was so poor they had all their plantside scenes at the same abandoned Midlands quarry, and a lack of sufficient actors to operate the teleporters was a recurring plot point.

# ? Sep 18, 2020 15:20

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

Narsham posted:

You mean a show with a small budget in the 90s couldn�t quite pull off CGI environments with the quality of, say, the Mandelorian? What a shock!

No, I mean that one frame of the White Star flying through hyperspace was replaced with this:

# ? Sep 18, 2020 15:22

Bell_: Sep 3, 2006; Tiny Baltimore
A billion light years away
A goon's posting the same thing
But he's already turned to dust
And the shitpost we read
Is a billion light-years old
A ghost just like the rest of us

Dirty posted:

JMS likes to overreact, I guess.

But to answer the question - no, I haven't! I'm not sure how to find that, as there's no description as to where it happens in the episode.

Having listened to his autobiography, Jurasik narrated that entire reaction in my mind, because the voice JMS wrote with was identical.

# ? Sep 18, 2020 15:30

Dirty: Apr 8, 2003; Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates

ultrafilter posted:

No, I mean that one frame of the White Star flying through hyperspace was replaced with this:

Nice. Well, that's the most of Hypernauts I've ever seen.

EDIT: Enhance. Guess this was a bit harder to edit out.

Dirty fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Sep 18, 2020

# ? Sep 18, 2020 15:30

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Dirty posted:

JMS likes to overreact, I guess.

Hello! And welcome to the JMSiverse where hyperbole isn�t just our philosophy, it�s our way of life!!

# ? Sep 18, 2020 16:03

Incelshok Na: Jul 2, 2020; by Hand Knit

I missed out on the Byron hate the first time I watched S5 but that's because I was powerfully attracted to him. Just a giant nerdy 16 year old boner slowly making a sticky dark stain of precum halfway down the inner thigh of my jeans.

My mom really loving hated Byron for that reason.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 00:14

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

Don�t post about your teenage boner, please and thank you.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 00:25

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

TK-42-1 posted:

Hague getting killed off screen was a good device for showing that stuff is happening no matter what the b5 crew is doing. Gave the whole situation a bit of gravitas even if it was somewhat improvised.

I really liked the switch out of Hague. It added scope to the universe, and let's be frank, Marlon Foxworthy is good but a almost too on the nose for the role. His second who takes over worked better and had a great delivery on most of his lines.

re: Crusade.

At the very least it gave us the long shot of the Excalibur firing its wave motion gun at a planetary target and the ensuing mushroom cloud topping out at the limits of the atmosphere. Very nicely done FX shot.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 01:11

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

mllaneza posted:

I really liked the switch out of Hague. It added scope to the universe, and let's be frank, Marlon Foxworthy is good but a almost too on the nose for the role. His second who takes over worked better and had a great delivery on most of his lines.

It was fun seeing the guy from Animal House again.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 01:12

ashpanash: Apr 9, 2008; I can see when you are lying.

They switched out Hague not for any dramatic reason, but because he took a role in DS9. Not that he was fired, from what I understand he just couldn�t do both. And DS9 paid more.

JMS presented his death as a sort of retribution to the actor himself. But JMS was/is really loving petty.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 02:25

Assepoester: Jul 18, 2004; Can't post for 10 years!; Melman v2

ashpanash posted:

They switched out Hague not for any dramatic reason, but because he took a role in DS9. Not that he was fired, from what I understand he just couldn�t do both. And DS9 paid more.

JMS presented his death as a sort of retribution to the actor himself. But JMS was/is really loving petty.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 02:52

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

It's too bad that Andreas Katsulas wasn't enough to paper over the B5-ST rift, but I enjoyed Majel Barrett's appearance, and if that's what it took, that's what it took. Still, I have a special spot in my heart for dual ST-B5 alumni. My favorite (after Katsulas and Talman) is this guy:

William Denis Hunt

Not only is he one of the B5-ST alumni, his very first acting gig was Emperor Wang in Flesh Gordon. They brought him back 16 years later for the sequel, and the dude decided he had a taste for it, got an agent, and had a 30 year acting career. FG was in 1974, the sequel in 1990, and he was still working last year.

Flesh Gordon is an odd film. There's not much actually sexy stuff beyond some pubes and breasts; OK, and some penis-themed evil robots. It's not a good movie by any stretch of the imagination. But if you look at the effects credits there are 5 Oscar awards and untold Emmy's for effects amongst the people who made it; makeup, animation, visual effects and the like. The guy who directed the Thriller video worked on this movie. Bjo Trimble of early Star Trek production and fandmom did makeup. Several other people with extensive Star Trek or Star Wars effects credits cut their teeth here. The low budget really shows, but the effects all show talent and ability to work with the budget and deadline they have. Check it out if you're interested in the history of special effects, or bad movies that are worth watching.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 03:59

Angry Salami: Jul 27, 2013; Don't trust the skull.

I can't imagine Hague would have been around for long even if the DS9 thing hadn't happened - the whole story in "Point of No Return"/"Severed Dreams" is Sheridan and the crew trying to find excuses to avoid going along with Clark's new policies without directly confronting them, only to realize the situation isn't going to resolve itself and they need to take a stand.

Hague's death and the failure of the military counter-coup plays into that story perfectly; I'm willing to bet he'd have died or been taken out of action in Severed Dreams regardless of what happened.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 07:02

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

mllaneza posted:

Flesh Gordon is an odd film. There's not much actually sexy stuff beyond some pubes and breasts; OK, and some penis-themed evil robots. It's not a good movie by any stretch of the imagination. But if you look at the effects credits there are 5 Oscar awards and untold Emmy's for effects amongst the people who made it; makeup, animation, visual effects and the like. The guy who directed the Thriller video worked on this movie. Bjo Trimble of early Star Trek production and fandmom did makeup. Several other people with extensive Star Trek or Star Wars effects credits cut their teeth here. The low budget really shows, but the effects all show talent and ability to work with the budget and deadline they have. Check it out if you're interested in the history of special effects, or bad movies that are worth watching.

Flesh Gordon was originally intended to be a hardcore skinflick, until the makers realised that they had the making of a decent script. They cut out the explicit sex and scraped up a bit of money for SFX and a couple of actors who weren't porn stars (some of whom were the SFX team working two jobs). The movie was actually going to be Oscar nominated for the effects, but the Academy didn't give an award in the category that year.

You also possibly didn't know, but the stop motion monster was voiced by an uncredited Craig T Nelson - better known these days as Mr Incredible from the Pixar movies.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 09:31

Torrannor: Apr 27, 2013; ---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

I actually can't believe The Doctor is just taking a break before Severed Dreams of all episodes, after a two episode build up!

# ? Sep 19, 2020 10:14

Dirty: Apr 8, 2003; Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates

mllaneza posted:

At the very least it gave us the long shot of the Excalibur firing its wave motion gun at a planetary target and the ensuing mushroom cloud topping out at the limits of the atmosphere. Very nicely done FX shot.

That is a nice shot. Crusade was interesting with VFX. Some were pretty nice, others were just way too ambitious or rushed.

ashpanash posted:

They switched out Hague not for any dramatic reason, but because he took a role in DS9. Not that he was fired, from what I understand he just couldn’t do both. And DS9 paid more.

I remember hearing at the time (no idea if this is true) that he was already booked for B5, then when DS9 came up his agent just pulled it in favour of DS9. So I can ... sort of ... see why JMS may be grumpy and not want him back, especially as the character was probably no longer necessary after Severed Dreams anyway.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 12:34

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

mllaneza posted:

I really liked the switch out of Hague. It added scope to the universe, and let's be frank, Marlon Foxworthy is good but a almost too on the nose for the role. His second who takes over worked better and had a great delivery on most of his lines.

He was also the wrong actor. JMS thought he was booking Everett McGill: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0569239/

# ? Sep 19, 2020 13:14

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

ashpanash posted:

They switched out Hague not for any dramatic reason, but because he took a role in DS9. Not that he was fired, from what I understand he just couldn�t do both. And DS9 paid more.

JMS presented his death as a sort of retribution to the actor himself. But JMS was/is really loving petty.

If you�ve read his autobiography, you�ll get a good sense of why JMS can be vindictive in a disproportionate sort of way.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 14:31

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

JMS was planning on having General Hague disappear after Severed Dreams anyway, so killing him off was no big deal. From the guide page:

JMS posted:

Re: Foxworth...it was really the only thing to do. I'd created the character *specifically* to have him available for this episode, after which he'd basically fade away while others took up his standard. It was all leading up to this. Without being in this episode, there was nothing more to do with Hague, hence I felt quite comfortable with his fate, it changed nothing.

# ? Sep 19, 2020 14:35

Dr. Gargunza: May 19, 2011; He damned me for a eunuch,
and my mother for a whore.; Fun Shoe

MrL_JaKiri posted:

He was also the wrong actor. JMS thought he was booking Everett McGill: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0569239/

I love that story. (I also think we ended up getting a better episode because of the mixup. Everett McGill is terrific, but he brings a much different, more intense energy than Bruce McGill's more relaxed style.)

e.: "Trademark: Cold sinister staring eyes"

# ? Sep 19, 2020 16:47

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

The binge is almost over. I hammered my way through two discs in the last two days and now I just have Sleeping in Light to watch tomorrow. Watching Objects In Motion and Objects of Rest, with their themes of doing things for the last time, made me think that this will probably be the last time I watch B5 - at least, all the way through. There are parts of it that haven't aged well. If it was made today it wouldn't have been made the same way. But there's parts of it that will last forever, and it changed TV forever.

# ? Sep 20, 2020 00:30

Winifred Madgers: Feb 12, 2002

To the contrary, it gets better every time I watch it, and the fact that it would be made differently today is definitely a point in its favor, because in any way that actually matters it couldn't possibly be made any better today.

# ? Sep 20, 2020 00:57

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

I finished s5 and went back to s1 and in some ways it looks better: the alien nature of b5 is done much more vividly. There's a sort of excitement in it which is missing later.

# ? Sep 20, 2020 01:30

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Jedit posted:

The binge is almost over. I hammered my way through two discs in the last two days and now I just have Sleeping in Light to watch tomorrow. Watching Objects In Motion and Objects of Rest, with their themes of doing things for the last time, made me think that this will probably be the last time I watch B5 - at least, all the way through. There are parts of it that haven't aged well. If it was made today it wouldn't have been made the same way. But there's parts of it that will last forever, and it changed TV forever.

You may think this but I�ve watched the show like 4-5 times and I just love it more each time.

# ? Sep 20, 2020 03:48

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Jedit posted:

You also possibly didn't know, but the stop motion monster was voiced by an uncredited Craig T Nelson - better known these days as Mr Incredible from the Pixar movies.

drat right I did !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW4lFV2NA0o

# ? Sep 20, 2020 04:42

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Doctor Zero posted:

You may think this but I�ve watched the show like 4-5 times and I just love it more each time.

I'm not thinking it because I dislike the show now. I've enjoyed rewatching it very much. I'm thinking it because it's an investment of nearly 90 hours and I just don't know when or if I'm going to have that time again. There are other things I want and need to do.

# ? Sep 20, 2020 09:17

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Jedit posted:

I'm not thinking it because I dislike the show now. I've enjoyed rewatching it very much. I'm thinking it because it's an investment of nearly 90 hours and I just don't know when or if I'm going to have that time again. There are other things I want and need to do.

See you in 15 years or so.

# ? Sep 20, 2020 10:07

Winifred Madgers: Feb 12, 2002

Watched "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place" tonight. My daughter who's watching with us was like, "what's Z Minus 14 Days mean, I thought it was T-minus," so I explained that that's just for rocket launches, but yes, they're counting down to something. She did go through the options and hit on Z'Ha'Dum as one of them. I can't wait till she actually sees what happens there, though.

# ? Sep 22, 2020 04:12

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1309261506828054528

# ? Sep 25, 2020 00:01

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Oh man, I just found out Keffer is played by the 2nd douchebag from Weird Science who isn't Robert Downy Jr.

# ? Sep 25, 2020 00:09

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

ultrafilter posted:

https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1309261506828054528

# ? Sep 25, 2020 00:13

TK-42-1: Oct 30, 2013; looks like we have a bad transmitter

savage

# ? Sep 25, 2020 01:02

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

The character had nothing to say, and he said it.

# ? Sep 25, 2020 04:45

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 05:22

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

The Name of the Pod had a complaint I just heard about the bizarre and patently absurd conspiracy theory about B5 doing human hybrid experiments during the ISN episode in season 4, and while I get the objection at the time, it's hilarious listening to it now in the age of QAnon.

# ? Sep 26, 2020 21:08

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