|
ZOG
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2024 18:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 12:05 |
|
|
Well that's a loving snipe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2024 18:28
|
|
|
I figured it spoke for itself, as it were
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2024 18:59
|
|
|
Just watched Soul Mates. The bit where Susan asks Delenn if she tried washing her hair with water and she acts like the thought never occurred to her has me wondering about male Minbari who grow beards. Are their beards like really grody, or are they brittle because they use the exfoliant Delenn mentions on them?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2024 23:23
|
|
|
Eighties ZomCom posted:Just watched Soul Mates. The bit where Susan asks Delenn if she tried washing her hair with water and she acts like the thought never occurred to her has me wondering about male Minbari who grow beards. Are their beards like really grody, or are they brittle because they use the exfoliant Delenn mentions on them? Flarn also acts as beard wax.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 00:29
|
|
|
I love the little karate poses Lennier does when threatened
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 00:38
|
|
|
Eighties ZomCom posted:Just watched Soul Mates. The bit where Susan asks Delenn if she tried washing her hair with water and she acts like the thought never occurred to her has me wondering about male Minbari who grow beards. Are their beards like really grody, or are they brittle because they use the exfoliant Delenn mentions on them? Well thinking about the difference between beard hair and scalp hair makes me immediately jump to the question of whether Minbari have body hair. I guess it'd be interesting if there were some other kinds of differences for species beneath the neck. G'kar has been shirtless with spots that go all the way down, and we've learned too much about Londo's weiner.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 03:05
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Well thinking about the difference between beard hair and scalp hair makes me immediately jump to the question of whether Minbari have body hair. I think it's one of those things you have to chalk up to 'it's TV'. Minbari have no head hair, or eyebrows, but some Minbari have and cultivate beards and moustaches, and it's not clear if they have any other body hair. Any of the answers that fit what we see don't really make a lot of sense unless Minbari chose to engineer themselves to have just that specific bit of hair (or maybe the Vorlons did for some inscrutable reason). I think it would make sense if the Minbari 'actually' had no hair at all, and that the facial hair we see is just an 'unrealistic' affectation of the TV show, but that's not quote:I guess it'd be interesting if there were some other kinds of differences for species beneath the neck. G'kar has been shirtless with spots that go all the way down, and we've learned too much about Londo's weiner. you left off the 's', Centauri have six  We know from various parts of the show and Crusade that humans and aliens have a decent amount of sex, but the biology doesn't have to be especially compatible for that to work, so there are probably wide variations in what form and equipment the 'covered by robes' parts of the body have. Especially with technology in the mix, do those Centauri women have some kind of fancy programmable six vibrator rig sitting around at home?
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 04:10
|
|
|
Gyrotica posted:As an aside, there could be lots of reasons other First Ones don't do it. There’s an extra point to the Shadows using pilots as they do: the Shadows claim that species grow stronger through conflict. But the key way in which they’ve lost their own way is that they do not believe this seriously for themselves: the Shadows can sit at “home” and fight an entire war through their proxy pilots. Now, they might do that because individual Shadows seem more vulnerable than Vorlons (compare the trouble with Ulkesh’s death versus Londo’s guards gunning down the two Shadows with Morden), but really it’s because they already consider themselves fully evolved. They knock over anthills, but they aren’t considering themselves as ants.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 06:04
|
|
|
Narsham posted:There’s an extra point to the Shadows using pilots as they do: the Shadows claim that species grow stronger through conflict. But the key way in which they’ve lost their own way is that they do not believe this seriously for themselves: the Shadows can sit at “home” and fight an entire war through their proxy pilots. Now, they might do that because individual Shadows seem more vulnerable than Vorlons (compare the trouble with Ulkesh’s death versus Londo’s guards gunning down the two Shadows with Morden), but really it’s because they already consider themselves fully evolved. They knock over anthills, but they aren’t considering themselves as ants. Also when the shadows fought Kosh it took multiple shadows enough time to kill him that he had a whole conversation with Sheridan while the fight was going on. The explanation for Ulkesh could just be that non-first-one weapons aren't that effective on Vorlons, but the Shadows killing Kosh would have access to Shadow tech and were expecting to fight a Vorlon so presumably would come loaded for I think it's interesting that the philosophy of the Shadows is about chaotic, individual advancement but individual Vorlons are much stronger than individual Shadows. You'd think the 'gain power through struggle' faction would be stronger individually, but they're clearly not.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 17:02
|
|
|
Pantaloon Pontiff posted:I think it's interesting that the philosophy of the Shadows is about chaotic, individual advancement but individual Vorlons are much stronger than individual Shadows. You'd think the 'gain power through struggle' faction would be stronger individually, but they're clearly not. It fits well IMO. The Shadows are individually weak so they focus on inducing chaos and struggle on the younger races so as to lead them indirectly. The Vorlons are individually strong so they lead much more directly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 17:10
|
|
|
Pantaloon Pontiff posted:Also when the shadows fought Kosh it took multiple shadows enough time to kill him that he had a whole conversation with Sheridan while the fight was going on. The explanation for Ulkesh could just be that non-first-one weapons aren't that effective on Vorlons, but the Shadows killing Kosh would have access to Shadow tech and were expecting to fight a Vorlon so presumably would come loaded for There are also fewer Vorlons. The Vorlons achieved their perceived perfection through advancement of the individual, but the Shadows did it through advancement of the masses. After all, you can't gain power through struggle if there's nobody to struggle against.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 17:11
|
|
|
Are there actually fewer Vorlons or are they just more reticent to leave their planet since they can't go invisible? I guess living technology would also blur things there.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 18:19
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Are there actually fewer Vorlons or are they just more reticent to leave their planet since they can't go invisible? Well, we never really hear back from the census workers we send, so...
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 18:54
|
|
|
ultrafilter posted:It fits well IMO. The Shadows are individually weak so they focus on inducing chaos and struggle on the younger races so as to lead them indirectly. The Vorlons are individually strong so they lead much more directly. They have a philosophy that constant individual struggle leads to strength and that working together leads to weakness, but that hasn't applied to them. If they're constantly engaged in struggle and conflict, it should lead to tough individual shadows who are prepared to hold their position with strength. They don't have to start with the ability, it could be advanced mental powers, some kind of link to hyperspace, or technological devices like power armor or force fields, but I'd expect them to be capable of dealing with a surprise attack from one of their companions, and certainly with a couple of primitive Centauri guards. Justin says "It's really simple. You bring two sides together. They fight. A lot of them die, but those who survive are stronger, smarter and better." "It's like knocking over an ant-hill. Every new generation gets stronger, the ant-hill gets redesigned, made better." But that doesn't seem to have actually applied to the Shadows, they haven't gotten stronger, smarter, and better the way the Vorlons have. It does fit with the idea that they've lost their way and aren't actually living the philosophy they're supposed to exemplify. Pantaloon Pontiff fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Feb 28, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 19:02
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Are there actually fewer Vorlons or are they just more reticent to leave their planet since they can't go invisible? I believe it's mentioned at one point - by Lorien IIRC, and he'd know - that the Vorlons are few in number. But you're making me doubt now, and it could have been Delenn who said it. If it was then her information could be inaccurate.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 19:05
|
|
|
It's Kosh that mentions the Vorlon are few in number, it's his initial excuse for them not intervening personally in the conflict when Sheridan requests help - which turns out to mean few sympathetic Vorlon who actually care about the younger races, not as an entire race because when they take the gloves off and start attacking the Shadows directly, they certainly don't appear to be few in number
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 23:34
|
|
|
Well, given the intelligence of their ships they probably don't need much in the way of crews. I can imagine most Vorlon ships only having one or two of them aboard.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 23:40
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Well, given the intelligence of their ships they probably don't need much in the way of crews. I can imagine most Vorlon ships only having one or two of them aboard. Or even none. Kosh's ship flew uncrewed on at least one occasion. But yeah, I'd be ready to assume that every Vorlon ship had only a single pilot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:03
|
|
|
It's easy to imagine a situation where the Shadows are acting openly and are seen as heroic while the Vorlons manipulate in the background and are obvious villains. For that matter, if JMS hadn't been trying to do the "Vorlons seem good but everything they actually do isn't, while Shadows seem evil but some of the things they do are good" twist, it'd be possible to have both factions operating openly from the start of the show. Ironically, I'd guess either that both would have supported the Narn-Centauri war (that it should be fought, not taking sides), or that they'd have split with the Shadows supporting the Narn and the Vorlons supporting the Centauri. It's interesting that I never spent much time thinking about that conflict in terms of anything outside of the past Narn conflict with the Shadows and the Morden-and-Shadows influence over Londo and Refa and their faction. If the Shadows didn't want to neutralize the Narn and hadn't liked Londo's "what do you want" answer so much, where might they actually fall in terms of broader ideology? And where would the Vorlons fall.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 19:35
|
|
|
Pantaloon Pontiff posted:I think it's one of those things you have to chalk up to 'it's TV'. Minbari have no head hair, or eyebrows, but some Minbari have and cultivate beards and moustaches, and it's not clear if they have any other body hair. Any of the answers that fit what we see don't really make a lot of sense unless Minbari chose to engineer themselves to have just that specific bit of hair (or maybe the Vorlons did for some inscrutable reason). I think it would make sense if the Minbari 'actually' had no hair at all, and that the facial hair we see is just an 'unrealistic' affectation of the TV show, but that's not Maybe only the Minbari that are a descendent of Valen can grow beards?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 20:28
|
|
|
Pantaloon Pontiff posted:We know from various parts of the show and Crusade that humans and aliens have a decent amount of sex, but the biology doesn't have to be especially compatible for that to work, so there are probably wide variations in what form and equipment the 'covered by robes' parts of the body have. Especially with technology in the mix, do those Centauri women have some kind of fancy programmable six vibrator rig sitting around at home? Human-made massage chairs are VERY popular back on the Homeworld!
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2024 08:26
|
|
|
An internet friend of mine started up a "watch B5 week-by-week" and while she and the others are newbs I've seen this show too many times as it is. We just got up to Deathwalker and I was impressed. I always remembered it as a mid-tier episode between two great episodes but it's actually a fascinating little one-off that I assume might have managed to have payoff if Andrea Thompson hadn't had to leave in the middle of season two. My only complaint is that Sinclair's deescalation of the League ship threat seems a little abrupt. Anyone else have any episodes they remembered as kinda "meh" that really shone on a rewatch?
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2024 22:00
|
|
|
It always throws me that TKO has *that* main plot and then the Ivanova sitting shiva for her father subplot which is really good character stuff
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2024 22:11
|
|
|
hope and vaseline posted:It always throws me that TKO has *that* main plot and then the Ivanova sitting shiva for her father subplot which is really good character stuff I'll be watching that episode next week... Not looking forward to the main plot. Yesterday I rewatched "Signs and Portents" and it was all I could do not to rant incessantly about how fun a villain Mr. Morden is to the newbies since at this point he hasn't done too much yet.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 06:30
|
|
|
Ed Wasser has so much fun with that character. He comes off as charismatic and a little annoying early on, then he's charming but so slimy you just want to punch him (or threaten to put his head on a pike), then when things are falling apart the mask cracks and he does a lot more intimidation than persuasion. Really great villain performance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 13:36
|
|
|
Wasser nailed the 'oily dickhead businessman' vibe perfectly. He was one of my favorite characters in a series full of great ones.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 13:56
|
|
|
Pantaloon Pontiff posted:Ed Wasser has so much fun with that character. He comes off as charismatic and a little annoying early on, then he's charming but so slimy you just want to punch him (or threaten to put his head on a pike), then when things are falling apart the mask cracks and he does a lot more intimidation than persuasion. Really great villain performance. He's a bridge extra in an early episode, and i think canonically he is a different character but i like to think that's just Deep Cover Morden
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 22:57
|
|
|
I would have loved a really solid scene between Morden and Cartagia. Both actors do different kinds of evil so well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 23:36
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:He's a bridge extra in an early episode, and i think canonically he is a different character but i like to think that's just Deep Cover Morden The only continuity problem with that being 'really' part of the show that I can think of is that he's shown to travel under his own ID which says deceased later on, you'd think he'd have a better cover ID. Maybe he's just arrogant once he's in position as liason to important people and doesn't bother with that kind of detail anymore.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2024 23:55
|
|
|
Why no Zathras Day?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 00:15
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:He's a bridge extra in an early episode, and i think canonically he is a different character but i like to think that's just Deep Cover Morden In the pilot, at that. Canonically he is a different character, his part has a name.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 00:27
|
|
|
Jedit posted:In the pilot, at that. Canonically he is a different character, his part has a name. DEEP COVER MORDEN
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 00:28
|
|
|
Jedit posted:In the pilot, at that. Canonically he is a different character, his part has a name. Are you saying that the Shadow's hacking tech can't change a character name in a set of credits? Seems pretty simple for First One tech.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 00:43
|
|
|
The Last Call posted:Why no Zathras Day? Because no one listens to Zathras.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 04:21
|
|
|
The Last Call posted:Why no Zathras Day? Because everyone celebrate different Zathras, everyone being too confoosed. Bad idea. Very bad idea. Zathras said as much to begin with, and Zathras gave up on it altogether because nobody celebrate the work he does.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 08:47
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:He's a bridge extra in an early episode, and i think canonically he is a different character but i like to think that's just Deep Cover Morden He's only in the Pilot episode (which not everyone watches), then shows up as Mr Morden.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 09:25
|
|
|
DrBouvenstein posted:Maybe only the Minbari that are a descendent of Valen can grow beards? Dukhat had a beard, and JMS said he wasn't a descendant of Valen. It's just a rarity among the Minbari, like human redheads.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 09:53
|
|
|
Just Another Lurker posted:He's only in the Pilot episode (which not everyone watches), then shows up as Mr Morden. exactly, deep cover morden.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 13:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 12:05 |
|
|
Guy from the bridge in the pilot got reassigned to deep space exploration, then “came back” in the same way Anna came back.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2024 13:57
|
|
