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It'd be interesting to see if the guys using machine learning to do upscaling could pull a higher res print out of the old NTSC poo poo. The idea is basically a big computer brain that guesses the missing pixels. Some of this stuff is wild. Check out this DS9 stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49oj2JUtn0A Fixing those crusty old CGI sequences might be harder work, but they may well be able to pull at least something that doesn't look like a lovely old VHS copy out of it, aspect ratio notwithstanding. and yeah if the original CGI data exists, that'd be wild. Although I'd hope that rather than just rerender it, they actually took a pass at it with modern 3D modelling and sculpting tools to pull the cruft out of the thing. duck monster fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Aug 17, 2019 |
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Aug 17, 2019 02:26
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Payndz posted:The space battle choreography* was several steps above anything else on TV at the time, even if the models are low-poly by today's standards. The fluid action in 'Severed Dreams' still stands up now. There's a long shot in No Surrender, No Retreat with a tiny Whitestar in the foreground and action happening in the middle and distant fields. It gave a real sense of scope and scale. What the models really need is new textures. More polys is a luxury when you're using 256x256 8-bit textures with not a proper shader in sight. I'd prefer the models don't get touched unless you can keep the original animation. Can you imagine cringing at the Starfury flyby at the end of the S3 credits every time because they didn't get it quite right ?
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Aug 17, 2019 03:32
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mllaneza posted:There's a long shot in No Surrender, No Retreat with a tiny Whitestar in the foreground and action happening in the middle and distant fields. It gave a real sense of scope and scale. Nnnnnnnno?
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Aug 17, 2019 05:08
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Babylon 5's CGI is extremely dated, but I guess when they decided what they wanted spaceships to have funky designs like massive rotating sections or weird organic-seeming bits as well as swarms of fighters, that was the only real way to make it work on a TV budget. I feel like budget constraints strangled a lot of spacebattles before they could ever be, which then is reflected the slow death of space sim videogames. Star Trek's standard of floating ships a couple feet from eachother slowly slugging lasers at eachother was seldom something to get jazzed about.
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Aug 17, 2019 05:10
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sebmojo posted:Nnnnnnnno? Odds are we'll never know for sure.
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Aug 17, 2019 05:22
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SlothfulCobra posted:Babylon 5's CGI is extremely dated, but I guess when they decided what they wanted spaceships to have funky designs like massive rotating sections or weird organic-seeming bits as well as swarms of fighters, that was the only real way to make it work on a TV budget. Budget sure, more money would have helped, but a lot of the time they were pushing the tech to the limit and inventing new stuff just to get more ships on the screen.
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Aug 17, 2019 11:48
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duck monster posted:It'd be interesting to see if the guys using machine learning to do upscaling could pull a higher res print out of the old NTSC poo poo. The idea is basically a big computer brain that guesses the missing pixels. Something's hosed up in my Firefox and I'm getting empty boxes in place of YT embeds. Anyone know what I've done?
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Aug 17, 2019 18:02
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SlothfulCobra posted:Babylon 5's CGI is extremely dated, but I guess when they decided what they wanted spaceships to have funky designs like massive rotating sections or weird organic-seeming bits as well as swarms of fighters, that was the only real way to make it work on a TV budget. Some of DS9's Dominion War stuff was pretty good, particularly the big battle shots in Sacrifice of Angels. And the production staff thought so too, because they reused a bunch of those shots for the Battle of Cardassia in the series finale. 
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Aug 17, 2019 21:00
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Trek's tight-arsed producers love doing that, whether on TV or film. "That really cool and distinctive VFX shot that you remember from a year or two ago? Here it is again!" [Bird of Prey explodes] I mean, Christ, in Generations they could at least have flipped the shot to make it look slightly different, but nope.
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Aug 17, 2019 22:12
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Shooting and compositing miniatures was loving expensive, and while Trek enjoyed a relatively hefty budget, they also enjoyed better-paid actors - and possibly those tight-arsed producers did have to answer to someone higher up in the chain of command (I could blame Berman for this as well but that would be stupid). When DS9 went military, they had to come up with cheaper methods of doing space battles (there was some talk about this in one or another DVD extra). B5's ability to skip recycling the majority of the effects shots was an excellent thing. Back when the series was airing (it wasn't broadcast where I live, but a friend of mine got VHS tapes mailed from US, commercials included) we'd be all snarky edgelords about Trek's endless reuse of VFX, although we very much preferred how its miniatures looked on screen - Lightwave just couldn't do lighting very well, mostly because global illumination was not part of the package back then (though GI isn't exactly small potatoes calculation-wise so it's questionable if FI could ever have rendered stuff in time), and those particle explosions were... Well, it certainly emphasised the fact that this is all make-believe. In my filthy mind I imagine having enough cash to simply remake the whole show from the ground up. B5 has a lot of personality, but it deserves much higher production values.
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Aug 18, 2019 20:50
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Genre shows occupy a different place in American culture now, and a remake could get the budget to do vastly better on production values, and probably get a better cast overall. The problem is that you're effectively remaking a 70 hour movie. What if you get to season three before you realize that New Londo and New G'Kar just don't have the chemistry as actors to pull off the elevator scene? Unless some writer with tremendous talent wants to make a passion project out of a remake/relaunch, I think it's best left as-is.
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Aug 19, 2019 02:52
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Just wait about 5 years, and we can deepfake a whole remake of the show.
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Aug 19, 2019 03:02
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Zorak of Michigan posted:Genre shows occupy a different place in American culture now, and a remake could get the budget to do vastly better on production values, and probably get a better cast overall. The problem is that you're effectively remaking a 70 hour movie. What if you get to season three before you realize that New Londo and New G'Kar just don't have the chemistry as actors to pull off the elevator scene? Unless some writer with tremendous talent wants to make a passion project out of a remake/relaunch, I think it's best left as-is. That's true, although I wouldn't mind trying...
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Aug 19, 2019 07:19
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Sandepande posted:In my filthy mind I imagine having enough cash to simply remake the whole show from the ground up. B5 has a lot of personality, but it deserves much higher production values. I used to think a remake would be cool, but I talked myself out of it. Most of the fun of B5 was seeing TV sci-fi doing stuff I had literally never seen before. It was, at times, jaw dropping in the 90s from both a story and visual standpoint. But as someone who has seen the show and knows the story, I don't think I'd get anything out of a remake. It already exists and I got my enjoyment out of it. Watching a remake, I just know my mind would be dissecting the changes they'd made.
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Aug 19, 2019 10:49
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Dirty posted:I used to think a remake would be cool, but I talked myself out of it. Most of the fun of B5 was seeing TV sci-fi doing stuff I had literally never seen before. It was, at times, jaw dropping in the 90s from both a story and visual standpoint. But as someone who has seen the show and knows the story, I don't think I'd get anything out of a remake. It already exists and I got my enjoyment out of it. Watching a remake, I just know my mind would be dissecting the changes they'd made. It's a pet peeve of mine that B5 looks like crap a lot of the time. Distinctive and it's got flair, but it looks crap - though it doesn't, in the end, become a real problem, thanks to the strength of its storytelling. It'd be cool to see if that story would hold up with different actors and different sets etc.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:36
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Starting a show with a 5 year plan for how things will go is a risky proposition, and if they tried rebooting the show, they'd have to be at least as flexible as the original series was.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:31
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25 years late and finally decided to start watching this show after hearing goons praise it for ages in every other thread. Watched Gathering last night, and it was very meh but I liked the characters and foundation. I cracked s01e01 tonight and it was already much more polished. Since s01 gets some ill reviews, I am looking forward to burning through this and getting to the good stuff.
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Aug 20, 2019 02:32
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There is actually a lot to like in s1, and it probably helps to know it gets a lot better.
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Aug 20, 2019 02:37
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sebmojo posted:There is actually a lot to like in s1, and it probably helps to know it gets a lot better. I believe it. So far, really finding myself liking Londo and hating the dark mysterious new alien that doesn't talk outside of its suit. Plus the telepaths seem to be a bit pretentious. Captain has a solid set of lettuce on his head though. Tightened it up between the movie and the pilot.
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Aug 20, 2019 02:44
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Keep posting impressions as you go along, it's always fascinating seeing these unfold.
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Aug 20, 2019 03:27
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TraderStav posted:25 years late and finally decided to start watching this show after hearing goons praise it for ages in every other thread. Watched Gathering last night, and it was very meh but I liked the characters and foundation. I cracked s01e01 tonight and it was already much more polished. Since s01 gets some ill reviews, I am looking forward to burning through this and getting to the good stuff. I was in this same position about a year ago. Definitely recommend going through it all as given to you (Amazon? DVDs?) and not skipping episodes or twisting yourself in knots trying to insert the movies in chronological order. There are some episodes I might not bother with on a rewatch but even the least interesting ones have something to offer.
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Aug 20, 2019 03:48
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Nice thing is The Gathering is the worst B5 ever is and it continuously improves. Seasons three and four have like... one turd episode total?
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Aug 20, 2019 05:36
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Grand Fromage posted:Nice thing is The Gathering is the worst B5 ever is Congratulations on successfully removing Legend of the Rangers from your memory. Note: I haven't actually seen it, other than that one scene. (You know which one.)
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Aug 20, 2019 06:08
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Vavrek posted:Congratulations on successfully removing Legend of the Rangers from your memory. It at least has one of the best lines in the show's run. G'Kar: Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else. Some people just love playing a role.
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Aug 20, 2019 08:34
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The movies other than In the Beginning are bonus content I don't usually think about.
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Aug 20, 2019 08:40
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Jedit posted:It at least has one of the best lines in the show's run. Maybe I should watch it in my current run-through. I didn't realize he was in it.
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Aug 20, 2019 10:02
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Jedit posted:It at least has one of the best lines in the show's run. FTFY
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Aug 20, 2019 10:08
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Keep posting impressions as you go along, it's always fascinating seeing these unfold. Will do. That's why I posted in here. I love watching new folks take on other shows and such that I follow. wizzardstaff posted:I was in this same position about a year ago. Definitely recommend going through it all as given to you (Amazon? DVDs?) and not skipping episodes or twisting yourself in knots trying to insert the movies in chronological order. There are some episodes I might not bother with on a rewatch but even the least interesting ones have something to offer. Started with pulling them down from Sweden but the copies I got were trash. Then I stumbled on them on Amazon and will be watching them from there. I'm a completionist so won't skip around and just plow through. I've watched some poo poo in my day so have the fortitude to work through some bad episodes, especially with the assurance it's an upward slope.
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Aug 20, 2019 10:48
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Jedit posted:It at least has one of the best lines in the show's run. I was always rather happy with: "Today is a good day to die." [disgusted]"Oh, with you, every day is a good day to die." There's three really promising characters who barely get any development and might have redeemed the show. If they'd dropped the weapons-pod idea. (The telepath, the Narn, and the Drazi, if you're wondering. JMS' human leads never tend to be as interesting as the aliens.)
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Aug 20, 2019 15:22
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Sandepande posted:It's a pet peeve of mine that B5 looks like crap a lot of the time. Distinctive and it's got flair, but it looks crap - though it doesn't, in the end, become a real problem, thanks to the strength of its storytelling. It'd be cool to see if that story would hold up with different actors and different sets etc. It's one of those things where B5 was/is such a heavy influence in a lot of modern sci-fi that I find myself pointing a lot of people in the series' direction (which happened at length when ME3 was more of a thing). Invariably, a lot of them bounce off of the appearance of it/the pure cheese of the first season. That's about the main reason I'd want to see a remake, but I'd rather see it done beat-for-beat with no deviations-- er, save maybe smoothing out some of the rough edges, but good luck getting anyone to agree on what those actually are. As has been said, though, getting the lightning-in-a-bottle that was G'Kar and Londo is loving rough-- but I'd imagine that they could do a lot of 'chemistry reads' for that with the elevator scene specifically in mind. It'll never happen, but, I mean. In a perfect world, that's what I'd be looking for. EDIT: I should note, a lot of the people that bounce off of it these days are the 25 and younger crowd, the ones that didn't grow up with pure cheese as part of their TV-watching diet. The CGI and a lot of the early bit-part acting is just hella abrasive, and I can't really blame them for seeing it that way. That shot of the Vorlon ship is a great example of cool aesthetics being absolutely chewed up by the use of loud-rear end primary colors. Old Boot fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Aug 21, 2019 |
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Aug 21, 2019 05:35
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Old Boot posted:It's one of those things where B5 was/is such a heavy influence in a lot of modern sci-fi that I find myself pointing a lot of people in the series' direction (which happened at length when ME3 was more of a thing). Invariably, a lot of them bounce off of the appearance of it/the pure cheese of the first season. That's about the main reason I'd want to see a remake, but I'd rather see it done beat-for-beat with no deviations-- er, save maybe smoothing out some of the rough edges, but good luck getting anyone to agree on what those actually are. Yeah, the looks of it don't bother me, though we always thought it lost pretty heavily to Star Trek in terms of set design - meaning that Trek had more "period-appropriate" look, while B5 always felt more slapdash and somehow primitive and not terribly futuristic. Still, they do give it its personality, which is a bonus. And I agree that remake should go for similarity as far as possible. I'd also like a billion monies.
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Aug 21, 2019 07:14
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Old Boot posted:It's one of those things where B5 was/is such a heavy influence in a lot of modern sci-fi that I find myself pointing a lot of people in the series' direction (which happened at length when ME3 was more of a thing). Invariably, a lot of them bounce off of the appearance of it/the pure cheese of the first season. That's about the main reason I'd want to see a remake, but I'd rather see it done beat-for-beat with no deviations-- er, save maybe smoothing out some of the rough edges, but good luck getting anyone to agree on what those actually are. I'm not saying a remake would be bad, but it's not just a case of having the budget. B5 is wholly a product of it's time and the circumstances in which it was made. I get what you're saying - the ideal version of B5 is one that looks like it has the budget of a prestige TV show today, but that's more of fantasy what-if, because no matter the money thrown at it, any remake would have to be a different animal, and then it's like, well, why remake it? (eg do you keep the dangling plot threads from actor changes? Or do you keep Lyta or Talia? Takashima or Ivanova? Out of those 4, who gets to be the sleeper agent) If you're recommending it because it's influenced a lot of modern TV, then those people need to watch the original rather than something that's remade through modern eyes. B5 was partially influenced by Blake's 7 which, when it was firing on all cylinders, had some really great dialogue and characters. But like with B5, I don't really think it's something I need to recommend or get people to watch. I liked it, but no one else needs to - they can stomach the bad bits, or skip it altogether. There's a ton of great stuff from before my time that I have trouble getting into or connecting with, and I don't think a remakes of those would really help me with that.
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Aug 21, 2019 11:58
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It would purely be a vanity project and not at all a business (or artistic) one...
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Aug 21, 2019 14:17
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Dirty posted:I'm not saying a remake would be bad, but it's not just a case of having the budget. B5 is wholly a product of it's time and the circumstances in which it was made. I get what you're saying - the ideal version of B5 is one that looks like it has the budget of a prestige TV show today, but that's more of fantasy what-if, because no matter the money thrown at it, any remake would have to be a different animal, and then it's like, well, why remake it? (eg do you keep the dangling plot threads from actor changes? Or do you keep Lyta or Talia? Takashima or Ivanova? Out of those 4, who gets to be the sleeper agent) If you're recommending it because it's influenced a lot of modern TV, then those people need to watch the original rather than something that's remade through modern eyes. OTOH, The Thing '82 is by all rights a remake and is amazing. Dumb aside, uh-- aside, I mean, I have zero hope that a remake will ever happen, or even be done right. I just figured that if we're talking pie in the sky, like, yeah. That's what I'd be after. Either that, or if we're in 'I also want a pony' territory, bankrupt WB by turning the whole thing into CGI so they don't even have to hire new actors. Uncanny valley the poo poo out of it and make the space battles so mindbendingly awesome that no one notices or cares.
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Aug 21, 2019 14:26
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https://twitter.com/i/status/1158835349931479040 If we can do this, we can do ANYTHING.
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Aug 21, 2019 14:36
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B5 Virgin update: Watched episode 4 or 5 last night, the one with the organic technology from the ancient race that was found and created the super monster. Up until the end of this episode I was getting pretty irritated that this big station has basically no crew so everytime a problem needs solving the Commander gets personally involved and leads the charge. Then his head of security calls him out on that bullshit directly (trying to be a hero? or trying to find a reason to die?) and pleasantly surprised that it was intentional and part of the narrative. Good on you B5. Additionally, I really liked the episode with the slave-girl seducing Londo to get the purple files, but falling in love herself. While it's been done before, the actors really sold it well and it was a good story all around.
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Aug 23, 2019 13:35
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TraderStav posted:it was intentional and part of the narrative. Get used to saying this.
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Aug 23, 2019 13:40
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TraderStav posted:the one with the organic technology from the ancient race that was found and created the super monster. You just described every episode on the show.
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Aug 23, 2019 16:20
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I said come in! posted:You just described every episode on the show. Okay. Does it help if I clarify it was the one where the commander confronts him 1:1 in a non-descript alleyway? Also, while the super monster can melt steel, the commander can take a direct shot and shrug it off to go hand-to-hand with him?
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Aug 23, 2019 18:00
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I said come in! is teasing you a bit with something you don't have the context for yet.
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Aug 23, 2019 18:06
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