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Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Maelstache posted:



Just Ivanova and Sheridan left of the B5 command staff, then? Oh, and Corwin. And those others that never spoke.

Lochley.

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Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Milky Moor posted:

Biggs did fantastic work in every scene he's in.

Let's not get carried away. Biggs did relatively well with his louder moments when he needed to be passionate and shouty and whatnot, but otherwise, he had all the subtlety of a brick to the head.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Originally planned to be the finale, wasn't it?

That's what Straczynski claims but I'm not entirely sure that tracks. In any event, much of what he says needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Sort of. Originally, according to JMS on usenet at the time, the plan was to finish with what became episode 18, Intersections in Real Time - 3 to go, not including Sleeping in Light (shot with S4, with Deconstruction shot with S5 which is why it doesn't have Claudia Christian but SiL does). Now quite a lot happens in those three episodes, but if anyone thinks that the content in those episodes was sufficient to stretch out into the plot of an entire (or half a season)... man, they don't know what filler means.

This is what I mean when I say that a lot of Straczynski's Usenet postings, especially from when the show was in active production, need to be taken with a grain of salt, because the guy was certainly not above drinking his own Kool-Aid from time to time (off the top of my head, claiming the similarities to Lord of the Rings were entirely coincidental, or that there was no way they drew inspiration from The Prisoner or Homicide: Life on the Street when doing Intersections in Real Time). But, in fairness, what creator doesn't stretch the truth from time to time?

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Wayne Alexander is basically B5's version of Jeffrey Combs.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


bobkatt013 posted:

Sinclair was unable to film so they used only footage already shot. They claimed he could not get there, but it might have more to do with his mental illness.

I imagine he was deteriorating at that point. O'Hare already seemed to be playing a completely different character in his appearances in The Coming of Shadows and especially War Without End. In the latter he seemed like he was doped to the gills on benzos or something.

Timby fucked around with this message at Oct 14, 2016 around 01:50

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Data Graham posted:

It's also pretty unclear how Dr. Franklin knew so much about Minbari physiology prior to the open-gunports incident; I thought that incident was their first contact.

The wiki says Franklin was off doing some personal mission, but none of that comes out in the show to date that I recall?

In the Beginning plays pretty fast and loose with some characters' backstories, notably Sheridan, Franklin and G'Kar.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Oh wow it's uh not exactly what you'd expect, thanks DG

Well, poo poo, now I have to know.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Data Graham posted:

It'll be tough for the show to regain its momentum, especially with Ivanova gone. Looking forward to seeing how successful it is.

The fifth season definitely has its rough spots (you'll learn to cringe every time you hear the name "Byron," and unfortunately Tracy Scoggins never really fits in or gets comfortable) but it also has some of the flat-out very best episodes of the entire series.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Data Graham posted:

What's up with the title on this one, though? Is it a quote from something? Sounds really pretentious if it's just made up to sound like one.

Straczynski never missed an opportunity to be pretentious or crawl up his own rear end.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


turn left hillary!! noo posted:

Ohhh, yeah, that's right. That's way early in season 1 isn't it?

That's also the same episode, I believe, in which Kosh tricks Talia into copying all of her memories into a recording droid, who then gives Kosh the data crystal. I don't think that's ever fully explained. Unless Kosh somehow knew that Talia was a Psi-Corps spy and wanted to be able to blackmail her if necessary.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


turn left hillary!! noo posted:

I believe the spoilered portion was going to happen either way, but the backup made in that episode would have been used to restore her as she followed what more or less became Lyta's arc.

That's my understanding, as well. And then of course Jerry Doyle had to be a drunk jackass and run Thompson off the show following their breakup.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Panzeh posted:

Her acting is really not there and she's definitely a feature character which is kinda the problem with the show.

"Acting is really not there" is definitely the show's biggest problem (O'Hare, Jurasik and Katsula were really the only ones who ever stood out), but as KHS said, Furlan's ability to emote is better than most of her colleagues. Her biggest problem is having to deliver some really, really rough dialogue while still tripping over her accent.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Party Plane Jones posted:

She didn't speak English before she started work on Babylon 5, IIRC.

Yep. She had just emigrated from ... Yugoslavia, I think, like a month or two before she auditioned for Babylon 5; Straczynski cast her because he felt her difficulties with the language made her feel more "alien."

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


CountFosco posted:

Am I the only one who likes Boxleitner's acting? Sure, he doesn't have much range, but within his limited range he's pretty good.

He's fine when he's being the badass action hero captain or whatever, but he's awful in quieter moments. Much like Doyle was a poor man's Bruce Willis, Boxleitner has always come across to me as a poor man's Michael Douglas.

If you want to give yourself cirrhosis of the liver, do a re-watch of the series starting with season 2 and take a drink every time Sheridan says, "nonononono." You'll be needing a liver transplant by War Without End.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


gourdcaptain posted:

Also, I don't remember the full context because it's been a while, but when they announce the Interstellar Alliance, didn't Sheridan say he was elected president? By whom? They just announced it! Queue the friend and I who watched it around the same time calling Sheridan "President-for-Life" through season 5.

I think they say the League of Non-Aligned Worlds, when it agreed to dissolve and form the Alliance, just basically named Sheridan president.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Panzeh posted:

I thought it was a cool line but delenn's delivery was flat, much like her character overall.

Eh, it's a cool line if you watch it with the mentality of a 15-year-old. Straczynski was relatively good at plotting (although how militant he gets when people call him out for cribbing from other sources is rather distasteful), but he sucks at dialogue.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


pentyne posted:

Of course B5 fans remember Koening as Bester a character so memorable it's overshadowed anything he ever did in Star Trek.

Bester has more screen time and dialogue in Mind War than he does in probably all of the Star Trek movies combined (well, maybe if you take IV out).

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Milky Moor posted:

Everything about Kosh 2 is more intimidating. He's all hard angular lines with two big horns looming over everything. Kosh 1 had this warm, pleasant green and brown tones with a pleasant voice. Kosh 2 is purple and red and his voice sounds like a sneering buzzsaw.

"Respect? From whom?"

Jeffrey Willerth and RD Chamberlain don't get nearly enough credit for the work they did. As someone mentioned earlier, Willerth was able to achieve so, so much with the most subtle movements, and the way Chamberlain could work his voice was phenomenal.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Milky Moor posted:

The story, by the sounds of things, seemed like it would've become very similar to B5 (The plague would've been cured early and then the crew would've been fighting an EA conspiracy based around shadowtech).

And then after he couldn't do that story with Crusade, what was his plan for The Memory of Shadows? Oh, just an Earthforce officer and Galen uncovering an EA conspiracy based around Shadowtech.

Dude can't help but repeat himself. It's funny that he wrote the subplot of Garibaldi worrying about Sheridan's cult of personality, because Straczynski cultivated the mother of all cults of personality around him.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Jedit posted:

Telling the second part of a story in a different medium after being unable to tell it in the original medium is not repetition.

Going back to the "there's a conspiracy within Earth's government and there's Shadow fuckery involved" well after doing it in B5 proper is absolutely repetition.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Von_Doom posted:

Douglas Netter did the sfx. Crusade dying also iced his company he made just to do b5 shows.

As I recall, he built Netter Digital in a kind of lovely way, basically doing a smash-and-grab on Foundation Imaging, robbing them of most of their best staff and rendering them a skeleton crew. Foundation was ready to go under until they got the Voyager contract at the last minute.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Neddy Seagoon posted:

Not at all. It is slow as hell, and the only relevant plot point carried forward is Lyta saw into Kosh's mind.

"Entil'zha Valen" is rather important, too.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


pentyne posted:

I thought In the Beginning was the pilot because that's what TNT showed when they started their B5 run and that seemed like a pretty good start for me to the show.

For ages, some friends of mine were militant that you shouldn't watch In the Beginning as an intro because of the Valen spoiler, but, really, it's the best possible introduction one can get to the show: You get a heavy dose of Boxleitner for better or for worse, you've got one of Londo's best moments (the speech about the humans), G'Kar and Franklin are depicted pretty well despite their limited screentime, and Reiner Schöne is one of my favorite character actors. There's some hamfisted stuff in there--thinking specifically of Ivanova--but in general it works very well to give you a taste of the series.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


shadok posted:

They took a lot of them out digitally in the remaster.

Here's a family tree from "The Neutral Zone" which uses the TNG actors' names, and Maryann and Ginger from Gilligan's Island.



Here's the HD remaster:



And all the time and money spent on taking care of little things like that is precisely while we'll never see a full-HD remaster of an effects-heavy show again.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


turn left hillary!! noo posted:

Season 5 gets real good again after the halfway point.

The Centauri plotline is just so, so, so goddamn good.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Shbobdb posted:

I liked the memoirs of that kid from SeaQuest who committed suicide. He lost his virginity to one of those dolphins and talks about it at length and girth.

What the gently caress

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Pick posted:

I had a dream last night that I won a call-in trivia show hosted by Alex Trebek. My final question required me to know that Babylon 5 had a crossover episode with Seinfeld. I know this didn't happen, but... it's too bad.

Well, Ian Abercrombie appeared on both shows in the same year...

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Marmaduke! posted:

I noticed watching Despicable Me yesterday that Gru has the same voice as Londo. Which is neat.

I'm now imagining Steve Carell doing impressions of Peter Jurasik in the recording booth to warm up.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Grey 17's A plot is 17 flavors of terrible, but the B-plot with Neroon is what makes it worth watching. Still a very weak episode in general, though.

Also, Jesus, so many new posts, I thought someone else had died.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Mill Town posted:

So I uh survived The Gathering and now I'm starting a series rewatch. Amazing how much has changed since 1994, when apparently hitting on your coworkers while trapped in elevators with them was a normal and cool thing to do.

Doyle would surprise Andrea Thompson by being behind the elevator doors with no pants on. That was his way of hitting on her.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Yeah, don't ever let anyone tell you businesses or corporations are governed solely by the almighty dollar. There's plenty of people in charge who will happily shoot themselves in both feet out of utter pettiness and spite.

Bear in mind, though, that any statement from Straczynski has to be taken with a grain of salt, because he has a long, long history of filtering the truth to make him look good; he's almost Roddenberry-esque in that regard. For all we know, he went to WB and asked for a Blu-ray release, but then added, "Also, I want the full rights to B5 back, I want you to resurrect Katsulas and Biggs and Conaway, and also I'd like a pony."

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Narsham posted:

He's admitted fault a lot more frequently than Roddenberry ever did. Then again, the number of professional relationships he's had that have gone utterly sour has been conspicuously high.

We do have multiple other people corroborating his explanations of why WB has treated the show so poorly, and it certainly fits with other accounts of their corporate structure.

I'm not saying he's explicitly wrong--I have no problem believing that WB doesn't want to throw one more cent at B5--I'm just saying that he's high on his own farts most of the time, so anything he says has to be taken with that in mind.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


turn left hillary!! noo posted:

O my God, please please let this happen. I have goose bumps just thinking about it. And my eyes are beginning to tear up.

It's literally never going to happen unless Straczynski surrenders the IP rights. For many projects, new scans are not in the cards financially, or are only profitable if a company acquires all rights. Television shows only compound your costs, since the consumer isn't paying the same per hour for TV as they would for a film project.

And even when a company has all rights, sometimes there still isn't enough revenue to make the financials work. Look at all the classic TV shows that CBS started scanning in HD, but did not finish.

It's definitely cheaper than, say, the TNG in HD project, but that doesn't mean it's cheap.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Wouldn't there have to be substantial restoration work done on the negatives for a new transfer? I seem to recall reading something about when they dug them out of storage for the DVDs, they discovered a significant amount of damage, like rats had chewed through some of them or something.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


V-Men posted:

Roddenberry must have gotten kookier with age.

Roddenberry was always a drunk, and then in the '70s he discovered LSD and later cocaine. He was extremely mentally unstable by the time TNG was in development (decades of substance abuse will do that to you), often forgetting things 30 seconds after he said them, and as a result his lawyer, Leonard Maizlish, was acting in his stead much of the time.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Narzack posted:

I'll definitely get used to him, and 2 episodes in, I do like him. I just really liked Sinclair.

If you want to get shithoused quickly, take a drink every time Boxleitner says "nononono."

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Gene's Vision, inasmuch as it's remembered (peaceful post-scarcity Utopia where no one suffers), didn't really exist until he started working on the script for what became The Motion Picture.

By that point, his brain was addled from three decades of alcoholism, smoking himself stupid on whatever weed he could get his hands on regardless of quality, and smoking whatever else looked good. Then he was an early adopter of LSD, just as he was with cocaine, and he took to coke like a fish to water.

Dude was a goddamn mess over his last 15 years, driven by money and sex, because his brain was too fried to imagine otherwise.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


LongDarkNight posted:

With LeGuin dead who else is left?

Silverberg is still kicking!

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Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


Yes, Mira Furlan spent a lot of time tripping over her Croatian accent.

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