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Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

We watched A Call to Arms last night and, other than the music and being a pilot episode, it was way better than I thought I remembered. Turns out I hardly remembered it at all. It's totally decent and I like Galen a lot. I remember liking him in Crusade too, but I don't remember much else about it.

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Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Yeah.... It's not the same show without Christopher Franke. It'd be like watching Star Wars without (at least someone vaguely emulating) John Williams. If it were in a similar vein maybe, but Chen was just way out there.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

did you drink zima whilst doing so?

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

ConfusedUs posted:

Comes the Inquisitor is an unskippable episode. It is incredibly important to both Delenn and Sheridan's characters and the looming Vorlon/Shadow conflict.

Plus the actor who plays Jack is super menacing. I love everything about that guy.

Wayne Alexander. Same actor as the Drazi ambassador, Lorien, and like a dozen bit parts. Basically a regular cast member, just not often as the same character.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Once you've watched the show through a few times, you can pick him out even in all the different alien prosthetics he gets into.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Narsham posted:

OK, getting increasingly confused by the "Wayne Alexander was the Drazi Ambassador" conversation. I'm pretty certain (and IMDB states) that the only Drazi Wayne Alexander played in B5 was the one in Intersections in Real Time. Alexander played Lorien, Sebastian, G'Dan, and of course the Drahk leader.

Mark Hendrickson and Kim Strauss played the Drazi ambassador

Whoooooops, lol. I knew he did a Drazi now and then and the ambassador seemed like he fit the bill.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

I like all of the episodes. Even the bad ones.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

I will buy the rights to it for $1. Whoever sells it to me will get credit for a profit and therefore a success. Going once, going twice....

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Luigi Thirty posted:

He said that the VFX elements were rendered at 2K to film for the archival masters. :circlefap:

O my God, please please let this happen. I have goose bumps just thinking about it. And my eyes are beginning to tear up.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Luigi Thirty posted:

He said that the VFX elements were rendered at 2K to film for the archival masters. :circlefap:

I mean I get the politics angle recently discussed, but if this is the case, why have we been suffering all these years with the apparently LD-sourced upscaled vfx on the DVDs? Just for the widescreen? Why has no one just straight up transferred these high quality masters I never even knew existed until now for a Blu-ray or even an updated DVD release? That seems like easy money to get a whole bunch of nerds like me to re-buy them, because I totally would even if they stream an HQ transfer, because our rural 4G internet is not completely reliable.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Not to mention, at 2k, cropped and upscaled vfx shots for a widescreen transfer really wouldn't look that bad, if they wanted to put juuuust a little more work into it....

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Doctor Zero posted:

Supposedly because nobody at WB thinks anyone would buy it and they just keep ignoring JMS. :shrug:

One of the things I absolutely would do if I ever won the lottery is try to buy B5 from WB. Or at least fund a restoration project ala Star Trek.

:same:
:yossame:

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

I never play the lottery, so your chance is as good as mine.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Doctor Zero posted:

Quite honestly I think a B5 reboot is a bad idea. I think it was everything all falling mostly into place at the right time that made it magical. I’d be more interested in making sure JMS could do whatever he wanted with it from now on.

It is a bad idea. I said it in the OP but it bears repeating: you could not make a show like B5 today. It's too earnest; it gets dark without cynicism; the characters are flawed but still undeniably Big drat Heroes.

Buuuut then The Orville happened, so I don't know anything. No, I'm not saying that's in the same league, or that all my reasoning applies in the same way, just that in some ways it's a throwback that I wouldn't have thought could possibly happen or succeed in 201X.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

I could dig that.

I haven't seen Lost in Space yet but my wife has seen a bit of it and said she thinks it's ok so far. Maybe I'll give it a chance after all.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Yeah. Ideally I'd like a camera-negative widescreen transfer remastered with cropped scans of the VFX portions of the 35mm master in the vault, even more than a hypothetical VFX upgrade or whatever. A pristine version of essentially what's on the DVDs. I'd sure take a simple 4:3 HD transfer of that master though.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

That said, a new widescreen transfer from the camera negatives, coupled with cropped/zoomed effects from the 2K 4:3 master, should be good enough even for Blu-ray. I doubt it'll ever happen because of the expense, so a straight transfer of the master in 4:3 is the best we are plausibly ever going to get, and I'd be happy with that.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Jedit posted:

I'm pretty sure Infection doesn't introduce organic technology; the Vorlons have it, and I think we're told as much in the pilot.

Wait, we're arguing which episodes to skip and now you're saying watch The Gathering??

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

sam_jackson_hold_onto_your_butts.gif

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

I watch it every time.

Edit: I should probably add this is not a recommendation for anyone else to do the same. I've lost count but I think I've been through the complete series at least 6 times.

Winifred Madgers fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jun 11, 2018

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Vavrek posted:

Best time is after you've decided to give the show a fair shot, whether because friend or family has recommended it to you, or because you've seen a few episodes and liked what you've seen. Takes place a year or so before the first episode, and (unlike ... what was it called, thread, In The Beginning?) was actually meant to be watched before the first episode. Aired like a year before the first episode, too.

A lot of people will say (are saying) it's bad, etc., which I don't really agree with, but there's a different caveat I'll give (which is most important if you're actually watching it before season 1): The Gathering is a murder mystery. That's not really the sort of story Babylon 5 normally tells.

In The Beginning, yes, which should definitely not be watched in the beginning unless you 100% do not care about spoilers at all. B5 telegraphs a lot of stuff so that's not as big of a concern as with some shows, though.

Also, yeah, no, The Gathering is unequivocally bad, and I say this as a completionist who always watches it. It has redeeming qualities, but its main function is to help the jump in quality into season 1 relatively shine.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Narzack posted:

Is there a spoiler-free B5 thread for us first time watchers?

No, but if you'd like to discuss it as you're watching, please feel free to make one and link it in here so we can follow; I always enjoy newbie impressions.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

I had a lot more sympathy for Winn when I watched through DS9 recently, which I didn't expect. After she settled down into the Kai role and began doing actual good things like the peace treaty with Cardassia, and before her turn at the end, she was a lot more nuanced than I remembered. Yeah, she was still an antagonist and not a fun person for the crew to deal with, but they also gave her a lot of unnecessary grief at times (especially Bashir one time that I recall explicitly) that kept the antagonism going, it was definitely a two-way street a lot of the time.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

The Minbari, or at least Delenn, seem to quasi-worship the universe itself. She talks occasionally about sapient beings being made out of the universe both materially and spiritually, in the sense of ourselves as emergent/splintered consciousnesses as a manifestation of the universe trying to understand itself.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

mllaneza posted:

Try the "this show is why Game of Thrones was able to be made" angle.

a point against it imo.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

On the subject of season 5, I envy anyone who has more B5 to watch for the first time.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Groetgaffel posted:

I saw close to 30 new posts in this thread since last I checked and feared someone had died.

Babylon 5: I saw lots of new posts and feared someone had died.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Appreciating the new thread title.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Yeah there was some discussion of that in here a while back. I'm really trying hard not to get caught up in false hope.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Parts Kit posted:

Forgot how great of a scene it is when (Season 3

You can usually just leave it here and be fine tbh.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

I not saying leave off the spoiler tags; I'm more saying any given scene in season 3 is likely to be great.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Timby posted:

Except for O'Hare's departure. God drat do I hate Bruce Boxleitner.

I can understand preferring O'Hare, but... huh?

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Pick posted:

I am so tired of apologizing for stuff in life, Babylon 5 is awesome and it's rad. It's really good, & I am proud to like it. Or at least totally at peace with liking it.

I've never apologized for it in my life. I might make a caveat for the potential viewer about the way it's solidly rooted in the '90s, and set expectations about the style of acting and whatever. But it's unironically my favorite show of all time and I don't foresee it being surpassed.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Pick posted:

Woah is this thread relatively new or something? I'm surprised, I looked through my post history in it and there's a lot less than I expected. Yeah let's make it fuckin clear, Babylon 5 is my favorite show (and my parents' favorite show) and that will be true forever and ever. amen.

I posted the OP 2 years ago almost to the day. If you'd asked me and I had to answer without checking, I would've said it's even newer than that, but then I remember I did change my username a couple months before the 2016 election, so that makes sense. It just doesn't seem like that was that long ago, either.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Tighclops posted:

because of this show I am permanently unable to remember which way longitude and latitude go

for me it's paralysis when zipping and buttoning my pants. which first??

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

I said come in! posted:

Are Sinclair and Valen the same people?

The same person, singular, yes.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Kurr de la Cruz posted:

Does the music get any better? That's really the only cringey part to me.

Wow, this is like the wrongest opinion in the history of everything.

Edit: I guess I don't remember the first season music as especially different, although most of the best music is probably yet to come.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Do any shows even do an opening theme anymore? Pretty much everything has just like a sting over a logo anymore I think.

I guess The Orville does a theme, maybe that will be updated.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

V-Men posted:

Voltron Legendary Defender's theme is stuck in my head. If you mean network TV, I have no idea. Person of Interest had a theme song, with narration describing the premise of the show.

Yeah, Person of Interest came to mind after I posted that. I haven't watched a lot of current shows lately so my sample size is probably skewed. I was thinking more in the vein of Lost, Agents of SHIELD, Once Upon a Time. Now that I post that it seems like it's more just a thing on ABC.

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Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Sanguinia posted:

I've been marathoning through this show for the first time in almost 20 years since I saw it airing on TV as a wee lad. Even though I didn't fully get it, this show was one of the most formative pieces of fiction for me growing up. Boy does it hold up despite some obvious flaws... until Season 5.

I went into Season 5 looking to give it all the benefit of the doubt, thinking it couldn't possibly be as bad as everyone claimed, but man oh man... And it's not even all the Telepath storyline. That's bad, don't get me wrong. The creepy telepath supremacism Byron keeps spouting, about how his followers need to be Better Than Mundanes by escewing violence, and then when they act like normal people he gets all sad and weepy about how they don't understanding his dream, that's bad. Lita letting herself get caught up in his cult, that's bad. The idiot ball Sheridan gets handed in various dealings with them, that's bad. Byron's continual lack of self-awareness in his refusal to take any real responsibility for his actions or those of his followers while doing everything in his power to shield them from consequences, that's bad.

But man is the thing that REALLY gets under my skin of Lochley. She's so god drat self-righteous about having collaborated with a murderous fascist regime that tried to literally holocaust the entire planet, and when she gives her big loving speech to Garibaldi about HONOR AND DUTY and he just loving swallows it WHILE THE CREW APPLAUD, I was almost sick to my stomach. I almost couldn't believe the same showrunner who gave us the Clark presidency wrote that garbage. The best part is that we get to see exactly what kind of person she is when Bester shows up. The fact that she can look Sheridan in the eye and talk about Bester's "side of the story," about what he did to Garibaldi, and how right she was for treating him to loving tea and banter while throwing his victim in the brig... She never puts one toe out of line with Bester that entire episode. She folds to everything she's ordered to do, won't bend a single rule despite claiming to hate him and the Psi Corps and what they represent ('yes Mr. President, I grant that they are fascists, buuuuut...'). He marches in Jack Boots a-polished, and she rolls over for him right up until the very last second, when she gets bailed out by a technicality without having to stick her neck out even the smallest bit. And then she has the unmitigated gall to LECTURE BYRON about how much she's risking. gently caress OOOOOOFFFFF.

Unless there's some BIIIIIG reveals coming up to make her less of a monstrous quisling, I don't know how much of her I'm going to be able to stomach, especially because all of the characters around her who actually have principles and courage keep bowing to her bullshit arguments.

I'm going to take a moment here and be a little contrarian. B5 isn't generally about bludgeoning the viewer with black and white - the Shadows are given their say, the Vorlons prove to be not much better, and all of the individual characters have flaws and virtues - even Bester has moments of genuine humanity. Lochley's devotion to military discipline and the chain of command is both a strength and a weakness. You've covered the weakness part, but it's her loyalty and rock-solid commitment to duty that gets her the job, and the fact she chose the wrong side doesn't make those qualities any less admirable.

I don't think you're supposed to take her, or any other character in isolation, as unequivocally "good." There's a continuum and she's not really at one end or another, she's just as human as the rest of us. She's more there to make the viewer uncomfortable as she comes in and skewers the new status quo, and gives a voice to those on the wrong side, to humanize them as well.

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