Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Started my ... hmmm let�s see. 4th watch through of the series. This time reading the corresponding episode notes from the script books like I always wanted to. I agree with something said waaaaaay back that the 1st season really isn�t all that bad in retrospect. I used to think O�Hare to be awfully wooden and sometimes he is, but it�s not as bad as I thought.

Goddamn this show is so loving good.

# ¿ May 5, 2018 23:21

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 15:51

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

turn left hillary!! noo posted:

I mean I get the politics angle recently discussed, but if this is the case, why have we been suffering all these years with the apparently LD-sourced upscaled vfx on the DVDs? Just for the widescreen? Why has no one just straight up transferred these high quality masters I never even knew existed until now for a Blu-ray or even an updated DVD release? That seems like easy money to get a whole bunch of nerds like me to re-buy them, because I totally would even if they stream an HQ transfer, because our rural 4G internet is not completely reliable.

Supposedly because nobody at WB thinks anyone would buy it and they just keep ignoring JMS. :shrug:

One of the things I absolutely would do if I ever won the lottery is try to buy B5 from WB. Or at least fund a restoration project ala Star Trek.

# ¿ May 18, 2018 10:57

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Narsham posted:

If you, as exec, find and cultivate the next Game of Thrones, you look like a guru. If you respond to GoT's success by saying "let's reboot Wizards and Warriors," you look like an idiot even if the idea works.

I don�t disagree and I�m sure there�s an unhealthy amount of self-preservationist thinking going on in there but there has to be a way to make it work. Lost in Space got a reboot after all.

Quite honestly I think a B5 reboot is a bad idea. I think it was everything all falling mostly into place at the right time that made it magical. I�d be more interested in making sure JMS could do whatever he wanted with it from now on.

(And also now on my list of lottery dreams is rebooting Wizards and Warriors. )

E: also on this list is hiring Brian Blessed to remake famous scenes from movies and TV in his own Blessed style. :swoon:

I�d better win before he dies.

# ¿ May 18, 2018 20:11

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Old Boot posted:

No.

What do you have a problem with entire plot arcs being resolved by literally drawing names from a hat?

# ¿ May 23, 2018 15:28

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Something that�s bothered me that sadly wasn�t addressed in the script books at least not that I could find.

1. Shadow ships need a living being as a cpu
2. Telepaths being shipped to the shadows to act as CPUs. They hate psi corps because TPs can jam them.
3. Anna Sheridan used as a CPU but she�s not a telepath
4. :confused:

So is this a mistake in writing or am I missing something? If the shadow ships need telepaths then why would they use THAT PERSON if she�s not one? If they are �upgrading� the CPUs to be resistant to telepaths then why would the Shadows condition them to hate Psi Corp because presumably they�d be immune to blocking otherwise why bother?

There�s fan speculation about it but nothing from JMS that I can see. What am I missing?

# ¿ Jun 1, 2018 21:44

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Ah that jibes. I always thought that Psi Corp hate was a defense, but it�s more that they are conditioned to hate the other TPs that aren�t being used so they can eventually wipe them out. Sort of like how they culled the Narn telepaths after the last war.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2018 23:40

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Infection strongly hints about the organic tech being borrowed shadow tech. It�s not necessary though because they cover it later as well. I used to recommend people skip around but I no longer do so. Sure some aren�t great in S1 but they�re really not that bad. I now just tell people that S1 is off and on but get through that and you�re good.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2018 13:01

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

pentyne posted:

Its a good comparison to the first season and pilot of Star Trek TNG. The show that it became was almost completely different in every aspect, from pacing, aesthetics, direction, etc.

It's like telling people to skip most of that first season of TNG. Sure there's the terrible polywater episode, the Ferengi are pretty bad, there's the borderline racist episode with the planet of Africans, but then you had some fantastic episodes that showed just how good TNG would become.

That�s a good analogy. The very beginning of TNG is waaaay worse than the beginning of B5.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2018 03:35

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

BrandonGK posted:

There's a part of me that wishes we could've had a Babylon 5/DS9 crossover just to see an indignant speech-off between Bruce Boxleitner and Avery Brooks.

I support this only so long as we somehow get Dukaht and Dukat in the same room.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2018 14:34

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

It�s fun to watch after everything to see how caricature everyone was at the start.

Actually S2 is probably a good time. You already know you�re in, so it won�t turn you off but then everyone hasn�t evolved lights years past it so it�s not as jarring.

E: holy poo poo E:f,b in the B5 thread. Who�d a thunk it.

Doctor Zero fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jun 12, 2018

# ¿ Jun 12, 2018 03:22

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

It's impossible to reply to this post without making something that wasn't a spoiler into one

Ehhh I think it�s safe to say that some big end game events are mentioned so early on on in the series that just knowing they are coming isn�t a spoiler because how they get there is the real fun. It�s never what it seems on the surface.

Narzack posted:

Alrighty, I'll just peace out from the thread and just watch the gently caress out of the show. I do like it a lot. about halfway through the gathering, and I don't see what all the hate is for, apart from some really weak acting from the Lt. Com.

If you can stand the temptation, come in and post periodic impressions. We love living vicariously through a first timers eyes.

E: FFS twice in two pages. v :shobon:

Doctor Zero fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jun 13, 2018

# ¿ Jun 13, 2018 00:16

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Maelstache posted:

The curse strikes again, Harlan Ellison now.

https://deadline.com/2018/06/harlan-ellison-dies-sci-fi-writer-was-84-1202419133/

Well, maybe not. Unlike some of the others he lived to a good age and had a long career outside the show. One of the last from that golden era of sci-fi writers, I guess.

Sucks. But he�s been in poor health for a while.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2018 23:50

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Baka-nin posted:

Hmm, Guess I should finally dig my copy of Dangerous Vision's from the cupboard and finish it. Speaking of which Ellison's contribution to it has very strong connections to the episode The Inquisitor. Ellison apparently had a decades spanning obsession with the old Ripper.

That episode comes from JMS� obsession with ol Jack. He even gives his own opinions of his true identity in the script book. Although as consultant I�m sure Uncle Harlan has a hand in it too.

Come to think of it, I think it was required that any sci-if TV show between 1960 and 1995 have a Jack the Ripper story.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2018 01:07

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Baka-nin posted:

JMS sharing the obsession would explain how it got shot and broadcast, given how well, unique it is, but the episode is just a transplant of Ellison's short story "The Prowler in the City at the Edge of the World" Jack has the same motivations for the killings and both Jack's were sent into the future by a group of people who are so technologically advanced they may as well be magic. He becomes their puppet and both have this weird need to empathise with the `woe is me` pleas from a brutal serial killer. And Ellison wasn't one to let people even potentially get away with slightly ripping off his ideas without raising a massive fuss in public so they must have come to an agreement.

Even the structure with Delenn's interrogation is quite similar to Jack and Juliette. Basically what I'm saying is if you liked Comes the Inquisitor but are curious to see what would happen if Delenn failed track down The Prowler in the City.

Interesting. I haven�t read the story, just JMS� account. Since Harlan was a consultant I�m sure he had a huge influence. JMS freely admits that. I�ll have to look it up.

E: poo poo. I just realized my dad had Dangerous Visions and Again, Dangerous Visions. I read them both ages ago, but when he passed I got a bunch of books and they weren�t in there. Huh. He must have donated them or something. Oh well. Ordered both. :cheers:

Doctor Zero fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jun 29, 2018

# ¿ Jun 29, 2018 03:27

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

How many Centauri does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

# ¿ Jul 4, 2018 14:06

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Darth Freddy posted:

Oh poo poo give me time and I can recap season 1 while I'm at work.

Sadly after making her watch he-man and the perfection that is Flash Ahhh ahhh Gordon, I am no longer allowed to show her sci-fi.

This is your chance. This isn�t sci-fi it�s high drama.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2018 03:58

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

It�s the cost for shipping. In another episode they talk about the price per ounce of stuff. Just like Oranges too. It�s basically not economical unless you are really determined and/or wealthy.

It�s kind of like Kobe beef. Why would I pay ridiculous prices for exporting it from halfway around the world when I got regular beef (or in their case whatever substitute) right here?

# ¿ Jul 10, 2018 03:41

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Jedit posted:

Pak'ma'ra are carrion eaters. You really don't want to go in there.

And that hump? It�s not a hump. It�s where they have their...

# ¿ Jul 11, 2018 03:36

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Polaron posted:

Isn't the hump the male? They're like anglerfish.

Yeah. Of course everyone (myself included) originally thought it was a genitals joke.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2018 14:01

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Narsham posted:

Given the original plague struck Drafa in ancient times, at best she could have been responsible for reviving it. But there's no clear mechanism through which that could have happened. The Shadows seem more likely, though it's also possible that the disease recurred randomly and it was the Markab response that guaranteed their extinction.

Seems like.y to be engineered because it�s very unlikely for a disease to be 100% contagious and 100% lethal.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2018 04:05

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

skooma512 posted:

I also like they weave it into the story later but using the markab gate as a weapon, because it's not being used by anyone by scavengers now. This is far better than having an entire species wiped out and it not having any kind of consequences later.

I'm getting toward mid-season 4 and it's so much better the second time around/now that I'm older. Is season 5 worth watching? I just stopped at Sleeping in Light last time.

It�s honestly not as bad as you remember it being. At least that was what I thought after my first rewatch. And there�s still some good things intertwined in there. And the Centauri Prime stuff is WORTH IT.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2018 13:24

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I think the weird thing for me about the Shadow War cycle is that while it's portrayed in dialogue as two superpowers manipulating things behind the scenes to try and bring younger races around to their way of thinking, the Shadow Wars seem to be about rallying the troops and driving off the Shadows themselves rather than their proxies.

It started out that way but over tens of thousands of years the shadows (and vorlons) started getting more and more direct. The shadows have been the most obvious during the show but the vorlons probably actually started the escalations by tampering with the races physiologically.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2018 21:58

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Pick posted:

Kosh 💕

We are all Kosh. :swoon:

E:f;b

My ex and I watched Babylon 5 as it aired. (She wasn�t my ex then). I remember when JMS said on Usenet that after we knew what the Shadows are doing 30% of the fan base will probably agree with them. And he was right on. My ex was one. :ohdear:

We were T one point going to get VORLONS and SHADOWS for personalized plates but we couldn�t get Shadows. For the best after all I guess.

Doctor Zero fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jul 19, 2018

# ¿ Jul 19, 2018 01:37

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Darth Freddy posted:

Passed a war with out end, part two. Holly poo poo balls I remember none of this besides the comedy relief. Ending was bad rear end. Only question where the hell didthe two Vorlon come from?

I think one of them is supposed to be Kosh. Ask us again later about more details. Answering your question would spoil a bunch.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2018 03:17

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Selachian posted:

I'm another one who's rewatching it with my wife -- I watched it when it first aired, she never did. Part of the fun is spotting all the guest stars who became known for bigger roles -- there's Lurch! There's Freddy! There's Minister Tagomi from The Man in the High Castle! Last night we got up to "The Long Night" and were deeply amused to see young Bryan Cranston playing a Ranger.

Omg the awkward silence in that is utterly heartbreaking. One of the most moving moments in TV period.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2018 04:19

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

SlothfulCobra posted:

I'd expect G'Kar to get along more with Romulans.

I see what you did there.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2018 11:45

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

turn left hillary!! noo posted:

You can usually just leave it here and be fine tbh.

There are people watching for the first time posting.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2018 03:40

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Timby posted:

Boxleitner is a one-note actor who, in a show filled with low-rent actors, somehow stood out as being the worst. I mean, poo poo, he made Scoggins look competent. I get that people love lines like "NOW GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR GALAXY!" but he delivers them with a level of cheese that would make the entire state of Wisconsin go, "Wait, God drat."

And I've said it before, but if you want to get yourself into an alcoholic coma / develop acute liver failure, take a shot every time he says, "No ... nonononono." Holy gently caress.

Boxlietner has at least three notes. Optimistic, incredulous, and righteously indignant.

And I love them all.

:swoon:

Doctor Zero fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Aug 6, 2018

# ¿ Aug 6, 2018 03:30

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

V-Men posted:

What does he use when he sends stuff straight to hell?

Okay 4 notes.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2018 13:27

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Kurr de la Cruz posted:

Starting to binge this series since I was more of a Trek fan when I was a kid when it aired. DS9 is my favorite trek, and I can see some overlap, but so far I don't really think one ripped off the other. I'm really liking this show. Is there any turds I should avoid, or should I just immerse myself in it completely????

Also I love the centaurian dude with the crazy hair. Londo I think? Favorite dude so far.

enjoy the ride! Don�t skip anything first time through.

Paramount almost beyond doubt ripped off whole swaths of B5 but that shouldn�t be held against DS9 so much as Paramount suits.

Jedit posted:

Did Doyle actually know the truth? I thought it was a secret between JMS, O'Hare and Doug Netter.

Not likely but if you deal with a literal schizophrenic day to day you�re going to call the person crazy eventually.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2018 01:03

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I sincerely love the music in Star Trek TOS, but it's not a universal appeal and there's a broad swath of people who find it silly and unacceptably over-the-top*. Like other elements of TOS, there was definitely a push to get TNG away from that style and to have it be its own thing, which meant less bombastic and more subdued music.

Unfortunately there were producers like Rick Berman who wanted to go too far in that direction, to the point where he specifically pushed back against leitmotifs and insisted that music should not be too exciting as he felt it would take attention away from what was happening on the screen.

*to which I say, look, if you can't go over the top in space, where in the gently caress can you indulge?

edit: gently caress, beaten

TOS was done by Alexander Courage who also did Planet of the Apes and it�s loving glorious and I will cut anyone who disagrees. :ese:

C.f. The Doomsday Machine theme and music.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2018 00:39

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Kurr de la Cruz posted:

Londo and G'Kar stuck in the elevator is now my most favorite sci-fi thing of the 90s.

HELLO! Can anyone HEAR me?

^{I can hear you...}

:laugh:

# ¿ Aug 26, 2018 22:59

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

mllaneza posted:

Londo's wife was played by Jane Carr, she's an English character actor who's been in tons of things; I wish they'd brought her back to - great character, great actress. Daggair was played by former Miss Chicago 1948 Lois Nettleton and she's had a long and distinguished career as well.

The notable guest you missed was in The Quality of Mercy. The doctor with the alien device was none other than June Lockhart, making her the second actor to appear on both Babylon 5 and Lost in Space.

Oh hey, Peter David wrote Soul Mates. No wonder it has some of the best dialogue in the whole season, if not show.

Fun tidbit about that. Bill Mumy bugged JMS incessantly to get June a part and JMS finally relented ... and then didn�t give her and Lennier any time together. :haw:

...Although Mumy got the last laugh by walking by camera without make up as an extra in one of her scenes.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2018 13:53

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

tastychicken posted:

The Centauri arch in S5 is drat good though. Don't stop watching.

Don�t go to the Centauri Arch. The spoo is terrible. Way too fresh.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2018 17:59

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Vavrek posted:

Complete tangent off of those words, but: Has anybody read any of Alfred Bester's work? I first heard of him because of Babylon 5; I'm a fan of that era of SciFi writing and have been meaning to read The Demolished Man since I learned of it.

Depends on your tolerance of fairly dated sci-fi. Since you like B5 I assume it's a high tolerance. :haw:

But seriously, start with some of his short stories. That will get you a feel for his style. You need to keep in mind that at the time his work was published, this was radical, ground breaking stuff. But in it, if you get past the style of the times, there are a lot of revolutionary ideas in which you can see the genesis of cyberpunk, and modern anti-heroes. It's really fascinating from a literary deconstructionist point of view. I haven't read the Demolished Man, but I would recommend The Stars My Destination.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2018 14:15

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

You can tell it�s fake because Lindeloff would never be able to identify the themes of the Shadow War.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2018 14:37

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

wizzardstaff posted:

Are reactions from a first-time viewer going through the series something this thread enjoys, or should I keep it to myself?

It sustains us. We will even go into spoiler mode for you!

# ¿ Oct 25, 2018 21:38

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

This is me settling in to watch the reactions over the next few weeks of new watchers. :munch:

I got a vendor sales rep to start watching B5. She was talking about how she loved GoT and was upset it was almost over but she loved how it had an overall arc. I said �well... if you REALLY like that kind of thing you should watch the show that started the whole multi-season arc thing to begin with but you have to have a tolerance for 90s TV. � I also said if she could get to the 3rd episode of S2 and not be hooked it wouldn�t be for her probably.

She messaged me on LinkedIn saying she started and liked it so far. I�ll have to see if she made it through S1.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2018 22:22

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Grand Fromage posted:

I agree don't read anything. It's very good. It doesn't really get going until episode four, but as a B5 veteran I don't think that'll throw you.

I read the first book so when my wife and I watched the first season I waited for the poo poo to hit the fan keeping an eye on her reaction. Her :tviv:

reaction was memorable.

So, yes. Don�t loving read anything. Just watch it.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2018 00:18

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 15:51

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Timby posted:

It was written by longtime Star Trek writer David Gerrold, so your instinct probably isn't far off. I don't think he ever worked on the show again.

He only wrote the one episode. JMS a really wanted Gerold to write this one, ostensibly because David had recently adopted his son so knew what being a parent was like. But I suspect JMS intentionally wanted it to feel Star Trek just to pull the rug out at the end.

Guest writers got less frequent because JMS was a madman and decided he had to write everything himself when the arc cranked up.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2018 10:58

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

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