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PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Water Cooling used to be the realm of urban legends, absurd tales of the most determined technomancers achieving insane clocks via arcane watery arts. Whether it's tales of submerged PIII systems occupying a bathroom or hooking up your own homebrew tubing with an old car radiator, water cooling has a general perception of being unwieldy and dangerous. Only those with too much time and money can make it work.



That's changed today. While custom loops still remain a bit more challenging, requiring larger wallets and a bit of work, the advent of closed loop coolers (or All In Ones) has brought water cooling to the masses. Coolers like the Corsair H50 were the first to seriously bring water cooling into the mainstream, allowing you to simply mount a CPU block/pump to your motherboard, and a radiator to your case. Even customizing your water cooling loop has gotten easier, with open, expandable coolers like the EKWB Predator allowing you to purchase additional blocks (in some cases even pre-filled) and install them in your existing AIO. On the custom side of things, more and more manufacturers are offering professional, quality solutions to tubing, blocks, fittings, and radiators. No matter what you're thinking of, cooling your parts with water has become easier and sleeker. No longer is it the realm of virgin wizards experimenting with leak-prone equipment.

For the most part, though, water cooling is about aesthetics, about the hobby, and in some cases about the noise. Temperatures on good, modern heatsink+fan solutions are more than enough for most overclocking setups, provided you have decent airflow. Plus, the HSF solutions are cheaper, too. If you're looking to save money, you're in the wrong place.



I only recently got my PC watercooled. I'd run my 2600k under an H50 for five years, and finally put in an EKWB kit. It runs great, and I hope to get a GPU block sometime soon, but I still have a lot to figure out. If I get everything figured out (or if someone else wants to post) I'll put a guide or something up. The hardest part is figuring out what to buy.

Any goons thinking of using water? Any else already cooling with water?

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Feral Integral
Jun 6, 2006


Anyone still submerging their entire PCs in oil-filled fish tanks?

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

PerrineClostermann posted:

Any goons thinking of using water? Any else already cooling with water?
I am, and honestly it was a mistake. Air cooling will always provide better cooling with lower noise levels because heat pipes move heat more effectively than pumped water, without the noise of a pump. Water cooling only makes sense in situations you need to pump the heat to a remote radiator due to space constraints, like in SFF PCs. On the plus side, putting a water cooler on your GPU lets you exhaust heat from the case in a manner similar to a blower, but without the noise.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Alereon posted:

I am, and honestly it was a mistake. Air cooling will always provide better cooling with lower noise levels because heat pipes move heat more effectively than pumped water, without the noise of a pump. Water cooling only makes sense in situations you need to pump the heat to a remote radiator due to space constraints, like in SFF PCs. On the plus side, putting a water cooler on your GPU lets you exhaust heat from the case in a manner similar to a blower, but without the noise.

Maybe compared to all in ones but not a custom loop if done well. My aquaero is able to run all my fans in the 300rpm range and my d5 pump can be turned down enough so its inaudible.

Granted im using 840mmx60mm of rad space for a i7 and a single 980ti lol. But thats the point.

Don Lapre fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2016 around 21:40

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Well yeah if you are willing to use an external radiator about the size of your case you can get pretty impressive results with low noise, but I don't think that's what most people are considering when they think about water cooling.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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People talk about pump noise, but even when I was testing the loop and had only the pump running I couldn't hear anything. I believe it's a ddc pump; I used an ekwb l360 kit.

By the way, kits are a great way to save money on building a custom loop.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


PerrineClostermann posted:

People talk about pump noise, but even when I was testing the loop and had only the pump running I couldn't hear anything. I believe it's a ddc pump; I used an ekwb l360 kit.

By the way, kits are a great way to save money on building a custom loop.

Cause you have a good pump

Aunt Beth
Feb 23, 2006

Baby, you're ready!

Grimey Drawer

Water cooling is only practical IMHO at scale, and generally only at infrastructure rather than component level (I.E. back of rack radiator cooling). It only makes sense to cool via water at the chip level when talking enterprise-class RISC machines, mainframes, or supercomputers. Consumer stuff is all designed to be air cooled because air cooling Just Works.

Lolcano Eruption
Oct 29, 2007
Volcano of LOL.

The problem is that everyone assumes that Corsair makes good CLCs but they're garbage. Cooler Master, NZXT, Swiftech make some good ones. EK if you're baller.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Aunt Beth posted:

Water cooling is only practical IMHO at scale, and generally only at infrastructure rather than component level (I.E. back of rack radiator cooling). It only makes sense to cool via water at the chip level when talking enterprise-class RISC machines, mainframes, or supercomputers. Consumer stuff is all designed to be air cooled because air cooling Just Works.

Oh definitely. If someone wants to cool a component, it's air all the way. If they want to cool a little quietly or don't want a big heat sink hanging off their mobo, they go AIO. You only build a custom loop if you want to build a custom loop. They're super expensive and only provides a small boost in cooling performance.

My kit for cooling a CPU cost 270 USD. My H50 was 80 retail, and I only got it because it was 50% off. Even so, a good HSF performed as well and would be five bucks cheaper at the time. Water cooling is a hobby, not a necessity.

(Though that h50 turned out to be a great choice, given how lovely my air flow was in that htpc case I used)

penus penus penus
Nov 8, 2014

by piss__donald


AIOs on GPUs are awesome. The net difference in noise is pretty unreal. However I've never had audible pump noise. I used a kraken x40 and a thermaltake performer 2.0 (which was like $40). I stopped recommending it because lots say they had bad pump noise so perhaps I was lucky.

Open loops are cool but from a more for fun point of view these days imo. I just can't justify the cost though.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Lolcano Eruption posted:

The problem is that everyone assumes that Corsair makes good CLCs but they're garbage. Cooler Master, NZXT, Swiftech make some good ones. EK if you're baller.

Corsair and Nzxt coolers are both made by coolit and asetek and coolermasters are or were direct copies of asetek.

Basically two companies coolit and asetek make almost every all in one closed loop on the market whether it's on a GPU or a couple.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Alereon posted:

I am, and honestly it was a mistake. Air cooling will always provide better cooling with lower noise levels because heat pipes move heat more effectively than pumped water, without the noise of a pump. Water cooling only makes sense in situations you need to pump the heat to a remote radiator due to space constraints, like in SFF PCs. On the plus side, putting a water cooler on your GPU lets you exhaust heat from the case in a manner similar to a blower, but without the noise.

gently caress'n A. Came to post this. gently caress water cooling. Too many failures, not enough benefit.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Failures?

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.



You have more points of failure than air coolling. Though AIO companies like corsair and nzxt will replace failed components that fail as a result of a leak it is a case by case basis. Dont know about other companies like coolermaster.

For the most part custom loops are fine once initially set up and leak tested cause the components are higher quality.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Oh, sure, definitely.

I do just wanna say that it's not some leak-prone nightmare, though. My H50 performed well despite being bent and twisted this way and that, and the custom loop I put together as a first-timer worked.....first time. It's all actually relatively straightforward. It's just that watercooling is generally something you do for the sake of watercooling.

penus penus penus
Nov 8, 2014

by piss__donald


Is there an AIO that has two pumps ?

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


THE DOG HOUSE posted:

Is there an AIO that has two pumps ?

Not that ive ever seen. Coolit and Asetek make most of them and they both do pump on block. Antec has a design that puts the pump in the fan hub.

These things are being produced as cheap as possible so throwing another pump in isn't worthwhile not to mention issues with space and noise.

penus penus penus
Nov 8, 2014

by piss__donald


Don Lapre posted:

Not that ive ever seen. Coolit and Asetek make most of them and they both do pump on block. Antec has a design that puts the pump in the fan hub.

These things are being produced as cheap as possible so throwing another pump in isn't worthwhile not to mention issues with space and noise.

Oh I worded that badly. Is there a AIO with two, er blocks? I'm not sure the correct word. If there is one cheap enough I might bolt it to the side of a RVZ02 mitx case and watercool my gpu and cpu lol

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


THE DOG HOUSE posted:

Oh I worded that badly. Is there a AIO with two, er blocks? I'm not sure the correct word. If there is one cheap enough I might bolt it to the side of a RVZ02 mitx case and watercool my gpu and cpu lol

EK predators are available with quick disconnects and you can order prefilled gpu blocks to attach to them but qdc connectors are big and an rvz02 is way too small.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

I'm the tortoise in the race, but I'm a joyful tortoise.


I've been thinking about the EK Predator, the stock blower on the Titan X is inadequate and my Hyper 212 on my CPU doesn't seem to cut it like it used to even when I keep it free of dust, which makes a big difference. Being able to replace both coolers with one solution that actually works well would be nice.

Prescription Combs
Apr 20, 2005
   6

Water cooling is fun. I've had an AIO in the past and now an EKWB L240 kit. Need to get a GPU block one of these days and add that in to the loop as well.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


MaxxBot posted:

I've been thinking about the EK Predator, the stock blower on the Titan X is inadequate and my Hyper 212 on my CPU doesn't seem to cut it like it used to even when I keep it free of dust, which makes a big difference. Being able to replace both coolers with one solution that actually works well would be nice.

As nice as the EK predator is, id just tell someone to go custom loop if they are gonna start doing multiple components.

penus penus penus
Nov 8, 2014

by piss__donald


Don Lapre posted:

As nice as the EK predator is, id just tell someone to go custom loop if they are gonna start doing multiple components.

I looked and looked and didnt really find what I was looking for, which was a basic AIO with two blocks instead of one. It's simpler for me just to buy two cheap AIO's. As for fitment... I'm planning on mounting them to the outside lol.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


THE DOG HOUSE posted:

I looked and looked and didnt really find what I was looking for, which was a basic AIO with two blocks instead of one. It's simpler for me just to buy two cheap AIO's. As for fitment... I'm planning on mounting them to the outside lol.

If you want to go AIO with 2 blocks you do this

http://www.ekwb.com/predator/

and a prefilled block. Basically any EK block can be purchased prefilled. Then you just connect it inline with the cpu and radiator.

penus penus penus
Nov 8, 2014

by piss__donald


Don Lapre posted:

If you want to go AIO with 2 blocks you do this

http://www.ekwb.com/predator/

and a prefilled block. Basically any EK block can be purchased prefilled. Then you just connect it inline with the cpu and radiator.



Yeah that thing looks sweet as hell but the waterblock alone practically costs as much as the whole setup I want. I'm going to jump on the first h55s I see that are on sale, hopefully for around $50 a pop, and a $30 G10, drill some holes and attach them to the side of the case. It's going to look funny.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Custom water blocks are expensive. I think the one I need for my 1070 is around 140 shipped.

Prescription Combs
Apr 20, 2005
   6

PerrineClostermann posted:

Custom water blocks are expensive. I think the one I need for my 1070 is around 140 shipped.

Yeah, the one for my MSI 1070 is that price not including the extra tubing and fittings. EK-FC1080 GTX TF6

Gibbo
Sep 13, 2008

"yes James. Remove that from my presence. It... Offends me" *sips overpriced wine*


Oh what's this a new water cooling thread?


*AIO coolers*


PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Hey now, some of us run custom loops!

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"



AIOs have a lot more failures than air coolers (i.e. "infrequent" is a lot more than "none") and custom loops have a lot of points of failure (every single component, joint, and tubing run).

The potential gains from CLCs are much greater, of course.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


THE DOG HOUSE posted:

Yeah that thing looks sweet as hell but the waterblock alone practically costs as much as the whole setup I want. I'm going to jump on the first h55s I see that are on sale, hopefully for around $50 a pop, and a $30 G10, drill some holes and attach them to the side of the case. It's going to look funny.

If custom waterblocks are out of your budget the G10 is the obvious answer.

For the price of a custom loop you can get multiple 120/140mm AIOs and the components to hook them up. It's probably not as good overall but it's a pretty obvious trade-off if you have the case space available.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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I've had more air coolers fail than water coolers, actually. My arctic freezer pro 7 (iirc) failed; I had to replace the fan with one I harvested from a case fan and super glued on to the heat sink. I've had two coolers fail similarly on my xfx 6870s.

That said, it is true that water cooling failures could be much worse, if a leak is involved. And I have had a lot more air cooled devices than water cooled.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


PerrineClostermann posted:

I've had more air coolers fail than water coolers, actually. My arctic freezer pro 7 (iirc) failed; I had to replace the fan with one I harvested from a case fan and super glued on to the heat sink. I've had two coolers fail similarly on my xfx 6870s.

That said, it is true that water cooling failures could be much worse, if a leak is involved. And I have had a lot more air cooled devices than water cooled.

Yeah, I guess I should say that I mean "fail catastrophically" when I talk about liquid cooling. Modern CPUs will throttle right down if they die, and most motherboards are even smart enough to sense it. AIO fluid can be (but isn't always) corrosive, and CLCs pick up metals after a period of time in the loop. But fan failures (for either liquid or air) are simple, slap on a new fan and off they go.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Gibbo
Sep 13, 2008

"yes James. Remove that from my presence. It... Offends me" *sips overpriced wine*


PerrineClostermann posted:

Hey now, some of us run custom loops!

I can't contribute right now except for poo poo posting because I'm phone posting from the hospital.

It loving cracks me up how people continue to think AIOs are worth it in any way. You're paying more than an air cooler for less functionality, a pump that barely counts as a toy, and a total system volume that is just begging to burn out from a simple leak.


It's no wonder they're popular though. Idiot friendly, you get to talk about your cool "water cooled" system, and for whatever reason, Americans love to pay more form less.


And then people extrapolate the failure of these toys out to full custom loops and say poo poo like "water cooling is loud and pumps fail all the time"


Why there's a prime example of an idiot statement right at the top of this thread even.

Alereon posted:

I am, and honestly it was a mistake. Air cooling will always provide better cooling with lower noise levels because heat pipes move heat more effectively than pumped water, without the noise of a pump. Water cooling only makes sense in situations you need to pump the heat to a remote radiator due to space constraints, like in SFF PCs. On the plus side, putting a water cooler on your GPU lets you exhaust heat from the case in a manner similar to a blower, but without the noise.

Gibbo fucked around with this message at Aug 14, 2016 around 20:01

well why not
Feb 9, 2009



acting like the rule of cool isn't in play for PC mods is pretty naive

dougdrums
Feb 25, 2005

MORTAL KOMB---
Uh, never mind. You're basically tonguing a nuke's butthole right now.


I have two machines with the cooler master AIO units in them. They're probably unacceptably loud if you're not deaf. One of the pumps died after about two years of constant use, but cooler master sent me a newer model in its place.

I bought them mostly because the pump has a lower profile, it is easier to work around, and is generally convenient. I know that I could have gotten something cheaper that would do the job, but I'm too much of a stupid american to realize this apparently.

It also humors me to have a computer with a radiator, because it is completely unnecessary for something that sits in my house.

Elsewhere, I've seen electronics being cooled with distilled water, as it is less conductive. I really don't know much about the topic, but I figured there was distilled water or some other non-conductive liquid in those AIO units, is that not the case?

dougdrums fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2016 around 13:13

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


dougdrums posted:

I have two machines with the cooler master AIO units in them. They're probably unacceptably loud if you're not deaf. One of the pumps died after about two years of constant use, but cooler master sent me a newer model in its place.

I bought them mostly because the pump has a lower profile, it is easier to work around, and is generally convenient. I know that I could have gotten something cheaper that would do the job, but I'm too much of a stupid american to realize this apparently.

It also humors me to have a computer with a radiator, because it is completely unnecessary for something that sits in my house.

Elsewhere, I've seen electronics being cooled with distilled water, as it is less conductive. I really don't know much about the topic, but I figured there was distilled water or some other non-conductive liquid in those AIO units, is that not the case?

AIO units often have an ethylene glycol mixture because they use aluminum radiators and copper coldplates which will corrode each other. Saves them money.

Custom loops can use distilled water and a biocide because any decent custom loop products are copper/brass/nickle which will not react with each other.

There are some companies that make aluminum radiators for custom loops but its basically no name ebay chinese poo poo and thermaltake (do not buy thermaltake custom loop poo poo)

Don Lapre fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2016 around 13:58

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Deuce
Jun 18, 2004
Mile High Club

dougdrums posted:

I have two machines with the cooler master AIO units in them. They're probably unacceptably loud if you're not deaf. One of the pumps died after about two years of constant use, but cooler master sent me a newer model in its place.

I bought them mostly because the pump has a lower profile, it is easier to work around, and is generally convenient. I know that I could have gotten something cheaper that would do the job, but I'm too much of a stupid american to realize this apparently.

It also humors me to have a computer with a radiator, because it is completely unnecessary for something that sits in my house.

Elsewhere, I've seen electronics being cooled with distilled water, as it is less conductive. I really don't know much about the topic, but I figured there was distilled water or some other non-conductive liquid in those AIO units, is that not the case?

Distilled water is the go-to choice for custom cooling because it is readily available at the grocery store for a dollar per gallon. However, it should not be considered to be "non-conductive." Straight out of the bottle, its conductivity will be very low, but it will pick up ions from the metal in your loop over time, and become conductive.

"Non-conductive" labeled fluids will be much more expensive, and run into the same issue. Over time, they become conductive.

Basically, just go with distilled water and a biocide.

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