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PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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That sounds fine. See how high they get.

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rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

Reminder: don't use prime95 as it's all SSE accelerated and causes a small part of the COU to get to like 90c.
Intel Xtreme Tuning Utility has a good load test

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


rage-saq posted:

Reminder: don't use prime95 as it's all SSE accelerated and causes a small part of the COU to get to like 90c.
Intel Xtreme Tuning Utility has a good load test

Unless you are going to use apps that use them.

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

Don Lapre posted:

Unless you are going to use apps that use them.

There are no apps that are going to ever behave like the prime95 test on a modern CPU

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Which types of tubes do you have to worry about dissolving plasticizer with?

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

rage-saq posted:

Reminder: don't use prime95 as it's all SSE accelerated and causes a small part of the COU to get to like 90c.
Intel Xtreme Tuning Utility has a good load test
Prime95 is cool and good, the point is that you don't need to freak out if your CPU gets too hot during the AVX2 test, because the CPU will crank up the core voltage when AVX2 is used (just like it does when you run a real app). You shouldn't just avoid testing your CPU stability because you're worried a particular test won't pass.

headlor
Nov 17, 2003
prepare the quantum monkey

I'm going to rebuilt my 'babies first watercooling' setup I did a while ago and add some common sense stuff like drain valves. Also thought I'd add my gtx 1070 into the loop while I was at it because the fans are noisy af.

So some novice questions:

1) is a 240mm by ~50mm deep copper radiator enough to safely cool CPU and GPU? It's got a couple of 120mm fans on it, and the components only have light overclocks (25-50% or so)

2) any better bit of software for managing fan speeds vs temp than speedfan? It's ok, but is kind of binary. 'Under target temp, drop to min rpm' or 'slightly above, 100% FULL SPEED AHEAD BRRRUUUM'. Ideally something I can design a curve for would be good.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


headlor posted:

I'm going to rebuilt my 'babies first watercooling' setup I did a while ago and add some common sense stuff like drain valves. Also thought I'd add my gtx 1070 into the loop while I was at it because the fans are noisy af.

So some novice questions:

1) is a 240mm by ~50mm deep copper radiator enough to safely cool CPU and GPU? It's got a couple of 120mm fans on it, and the components only have light overclocks (25-50% or so)

2) any better bit of software for managing fan speeds vs temp than speedfan? It's ok, but is kind of binary. 'Under target temp, drop to min rpm' or 'slightly above, 100% FULL SPEED AHEAD BRRRUUUM'. Ideally something I can design a curve for would be good.

Rule of thumb is 120mm per component plus one. So 360mm minimal. Also the more radiator space the lower you can run your fans.

For fan control I recommend an aquaero. The baller ones with screen are about $160 but you can get one without a display for $70-$100.

It's a standalone computer that can run a pump and fans. You can hook multiple temp sensors to it and have your fans spin up based on an ambient water temp Delta.

Works completely independent of the PC once set up. No need to worry about changing it with new hardware or anything.

headlor
Nov 17, 2003
prepare the quantum monkey

Don Lapre posted:

Rule of thumb is 120mm per component plus one. So 360mm minimal. Also the more radiator space the lower you can run your fans.

For fan control I recommend an aquaero. The baller ones with screen are about $160 but you can get one without a display for $70-$100.

It's a standalone computer that can run a pump and fans. You can hook multiple temp sensors to it and have your fans spin up based on an ambient water temp Delta.

Works completely independent of the PC once set up. No need to worry about changing it with new hardware or anything.

Those aquaero controllers look awesome, exactly what I want. Out of budget though, so maybe live with speedfan for the immediate future and plan to put one in with sensors etc at a later date.

I'll add another bank of radiators then. Least there is no way too much cooling can be a bad thing.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Welp. Ordered the parts for my 6 month flush/upgrade. Adding on to an EKWB L360 kit, into a Corsair Air 540 case.



Hope I didn't miss anything...

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

PerrineClostermann posted:

Welp. Ordered the parts for my 6 month flush/upgrade. Adding on to an EKWB L360 kit, into a Corsair Air 540 case.



Hope I didn't miss anything...

You are missing the back on the 1070 waterblock.
If you don't have the 1070 yet get the MSI Sea Hawk EK X. The PCB was designed with the waterblock in mind so its basically the best card and the price is good too.
Additionally, the newer Corsair ML120s are way, way, way better than the SP120s both from a performance and noise perspective. They are hands down the best 120mm fans you can get.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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The back? As in a backplate? I already have an EVGA SC 1070, which comes with a backplate already. Should I have ordered the EKWB backplate then?

Also, the ML120s are twice the price of the SP120s. Sixty bucks for a pair of fans is a bit much.

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

PerrineClostermann posted:

The back? As in a backplate? I already have an EVGA SC 1070, which comes with a backplate already. Should I have ordered the EKWB backplate then?

Also, the ML120s are twice the price of the SP120s. Sixty bucks for a pair of fans is a bit much.

You mean 3 dollars more expensive
https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Prem...k/dp/B01G5I6MRK

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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...What the gently caress, Performance PCs.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cors...e-pack-fan.html

Welp, lemme see if I can cancel part of the order.

e: Wait, Performance PCs has the Pro fan. What's the difference?

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

PerrineClostermann posted:

...What the gently caress, Performance PCs.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cors...e-pack-fan.html

Welp, lemme see if I can cancel part of the order.

e: Wait, Performance PCs has the Pro fan. What's the difference?

Nothing useful, it's all black and has removable rubber corners.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Huh. Well, alright then.

Also, recommendations on an affordable fan controller? Not sure if I can really trust my header to run a ton of fans off it.

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

PerrineClostermann posted:

Huh. Well, alright then.

Also, recommendations on an affordable fan controller? Not sure if I can really trust my header to run a ton of fans off it.

What mobo? I have an 8 fan pwm splitter that pulls power from a psu lead and signal from the mobo. I use the excellent Asus thermal radar 2 to control it based off some inline temp sensors.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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rage-saq posted:

What mobo? I have an 8 fan pwm splitter that pulls power from a psu lead and signal from the mobo. I use the excellent Asus thermal radar 2 to control it based off some inline temp sensors.

Asus P8P67 Evo. I've got my pump and two fans running off the CPU Fan header and three cheap 120mms running off the PWR Fan header. Apparently I have an untapped Chassis Fan header though....hmm.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Ml120 basically has to run true pwm

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Don Lapre posted:

Ml120 basically has to run true pwm

All my headers are 4pin, wouldn't that suggest they're PWM?

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


PerrineClostermann posted:

All my headers are 4pin, wouldn't that suggest they're PWM?

No. All pwn headers are 4 pin. All 4 pin headers are not pwm. Your manual will give the pinout data on your fan headers.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Don Lapre posted:

No. All pwn headers are 4 pin. All 4 pin headers are not pwm. Your manual will give the pinout data on your fan headers.

drat. Looks like only the CPU fan header is PWM. CHA_FAN1 just ties it to 5v, which I presume is equivalent to a 100% duty cycle. My CPU_FAN header supports 1A. How much power do fans drain? Is there an adapter that lets my fans run off my PSU while co-opting the CPU PWM signal?

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

PerrineClostermann posted:

drat. Looks like only the CPU fan header is PWM. CHA_FAN1 just ties it to 5v, which I presume is equivalent to a 100% duty cycle. My CPU_FAN header supports 1A. How much power do fans drain? Is there an adapter that lets my fans run off my PSU while co-opting the CPU PWM signal?

Check your BIOS, a lot of Asus motherboards let you select PWM vs DC per header. Otherwise you need an adapter like this cheap and small one: https://www.amazon.com/Splitter-Mol...+splitter+molex

Also, if you are talking about the ML120s, you can do 2 of them on one mobo header safely, they are pretty power efficient.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Hmm. Well, I'm doing some math here. My pump is an EKWB pump res combo, using a DDC 3.1. They don't list this normally, as it's only available in their kits, and I'm not sure what the power draw is. I've seen a few generic figures for DDC 3.1s of about 10w, which would put it at 834 mA current. My header is rated for 1A, and I'm currently running two 3pin fans on the same header.

As I apparently have no actual PWM fans, do you think I could get away with ML120s slaved to the same PWM signal as the pump? My splitter apparently handles the signal properly, so I could just move the 3pin fans to a splitter on the chassis header and put the ML120s on the CPU header with the pump...

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Just a quick clarification, there's two kinds of PWM: Using the 4th pin of the header to send a PWM control signal to the fan's built-in speed controller, and actually applying PWM to the 12V power for the fan. I think the former should be available on any 4-pin header. The latter is rare and used to control fans that don't support speed control and don't react well to voltage control. I'm not sure what Don Lapre is saying these Corsair fans need but since they have 4-pin plugs I would expect them to work from any 4-pin header on your board, but I haven't looked at your specific board.

Alereon fucked around with this message at Nov 27, 2016 around 06:15

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Alereon posted:

Just a quick clarification, there's two kinds of PWM: Using the 4th pin of the header to send a PWM control signal to the fan's built-in speed controller, and actually applying PWM to the 12V power for the fan. I think the former should be available on any 4-pin header. The latter is rare and used to control fans that don't support speed control and don't react well to voltage control. I'm not sure what Don Lapre is saying these Corsair fans need but since they have 4-pin plugs I would expect them to work from any 4-pin header on your board, but I haven't looked at your specific board.

A lot of motherboards don't actually send a pwm signal on their 4 pin headers but a constant 5v. Many boards only actually send a pwm signal on the CPU header.

Example
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forum...pic.php?t=66283

quote:

First off, watch out for the chassis fan headers, they're not what they seem. This board has 6 fan headers: CPU_FAN, CPU_OPT, and CHA_FAN 1-4. All of them look like normal 4-pin fan headers, but CHA_FAN 1-4 are *not* true 4-pin PWM fan headers. They don't provide any PWM control capability, and in fact act mostly like 3-pin fan headers, controlling all fans, whether 3 or 4 pin, using 3-pin style voltage control. The 4th pin, which should be used to control 4-pin fan speeds while the motor power stays at +12V, is instead hardwired for a constant 100% duty cycle PWM signal (fixed +5V). 4-pin fans will see this PWM signal and always run at full throttle, while the motor power is adjusted 3-pin style to control the actual speed resulting from that full throttle. 3-pin fans will work with these headers as if they were plain old normal 3-pin fan headers. 

If you run an ml120 off one of these fake pwm headers it will run properly at full speed but the only way to speed control it is voltage control which the ml maglev bearing does not work properly with.

You often also see people plugging their pumps pwm control into these and wonder why they can't control the speed, because there is no actual pwm signal being sent. Just a constant 5v.

Here is a gigabyte z97n wifi



You can see we get pwm on the CPU header but constant 5v on the system headers.

Don Lapre fucked around with this message at Nov 27, 2016 around 07:02

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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From my mobo's manual:

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


I'd probably buy a proper pwm fan controller like one of the aqua computer models or buy fans that work properly with DC control.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Those Aqueros only support one PWM channel unless you get to the expensive 6 series. drat.

e: I wonder if I could repurpose a Raspi as a PWM controller...

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

PerrineClostermann posted:

Hmm. Well, I'm doing some math here. My pump is an EKWB pump res combo, using a DDC 3.1. They don't list this normally, as it's only available in their kits, and I'm not sure what the power draw is. I've seen a few generic figures for DDC 3.1s of about 10w, which would put it at 834 mA current. My header is rated for 1A, and I'm currently running two 3pin fans on the same header.

As I apparently have no actual PWM fans, do you think I could get away with ML120s slaved to the same PWM signal as the pump? My splitter apparently handles the signal properly, so I could just move the 3pin fans to a splitter on the chassis header and put the ML120s on the CPU header with the pump...

A few things
1: Your DDC isn't drawing power from the header, it should be drawing power from your PSU with an RPM sensor / PWM signal to adjust duty cycle on the pump.
2: Do you need your DDC to run at a lower duty cycle? I don't know how loud those things are but my EK D5 PWM is so quiet that even at max speed its pretty much inaudible.
3: I'm not sure if the PWR_FAN has special significance on your mobo, typically only the CPU_FAN is required before mobos decide to take control and shut down if there is no RPMs coming through, but not always. If this is the case then you could:

Leave your DDC unhooked and run at full speed, get a PWM fan splitter and hook up your rad fans to the CPU_FAN fan header and control them with PWM and run your two case fans off the two CHA_FAN1/2 headers and get DC rpm control.

In the future, look for an Asus motherboard that has a lot of fan headers and supports thermal radar / fanxpert like a TUF. Thermal Radar is a pretty fantastic fan control system that you can tie fan curves to all kinds things including hybrid metrics. Cheaper than an aquero by a bit.

rage-saq fucked around with this message at Nov 27, 2016 around 08:20

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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rage-saq posted:

A few things
1: Your DDC isn't drawing power from the header, it should be drawing power from your PSU with an RPM sensor / PWM signal to adjust duty cycle on the pump.
2: Do you need your DDC to run at a lower duty cycle? I don't know how loud those things are but my EK D5 PWM is so quiet that even at max speed its pretty much inaudible.
3: I'm not sure if the PWR_FAN has special significance on your mobo, typically only the CPU_FAN is required before mobos decide to take control and shut down if there is no RPMs coming through, but not always. If this is the case then you could:

Leave your DDC unhooked and run at full speed, get a PWM fan splitter and hook up your rad fans to the CPU_FAN fan header and control them with PWM and run your two case fans off the two CHA_FAN1/2 headers and get DC rpm control.

In the future, look for an Asus motherboard that has a lot of fan headers and supports thermal radar / fanxpert like a TUF. Thermal Radar is a pretty fantastic fan control system that you can tie fan curves to all kinds things including hybrid metrics. Cheaper than an aquero by a bit.

1: The only electrical connection the DDC has is the 4pin fan header. It has no SATA or molex connection.
2: You've got a point. It's pretty damned silent, even when I had it hooked up to the 3pin testing adapter (and was thus running 100%). If it doesn't jeopardize the lifetime of the pump, I could plug it in to the chassis fan header...provided that header can handle the current draw. I'll email ASUS.
3: I've disabled the warnings on the CPU_FAN not being present, it should work fine.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Don Lapre posted:

A lot of motherboards don't actually send a pwm signal on their 4 pin headers but a constant 5v. Many boards only actually send a pwm signal on the CPU header.
Thanks for the info, that's ridiculous as there's no reason to even include a 4-pin connector if you're not going to send a PWM control signal, 4-pin fans plug into 3-pin headers just fine. I guess I'm spoiled by good motherboards with speed control on every header.

Truga
May 4, 2014


Lipstick Apathy

Yeah, I got hosed by asus "4 4 pin fan connectors" marketing once, I'll be super careful next time I'm buying expensive motherboards. The CPU headers are PWM (but only the same signal for both ), and the other two are just 5v on pwm and use voltage to control speed

Luckily those swiftech 8way pwm splitters exist, though I'd still prefer it if I could run the pumps on a different pwm than fans more easily.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Alereon posted:

Thanks for the info, that's ridiculous as there's no reason to even include a 4-pin connector if you're not going to send a PWM control signal, 4-pin fans plug into 3-pin headers just fine. I guess I'm spoiled by good motherboards with speed control on every header.

Yeah, I found that strange. PWM 4pin fans have their fourth pin pulled internally to 5v, right?


Truga posted:

Yeah, I got hosed by asus "4 4 pin fan connectors" marketing once, I'll be super careful next time I'm buying expensive motherboards. The CPU headers are PWM (but only the same signal for both ), and the other two are just 5v on pwm and use voltage to control speed

Luckily those swiftech 8way pwm splitters exist, though I'd still prefer it if I could run the pumps on a different pwm than fans more easily.

I ended up ordering one of those. To be safe, I'm trying to figure out how much power I can pull from my PSU over a SATA Power connector. It just lists 12v output as a whole, which I hope means I don't need to worry about it at all.



And to complicate PWM, I've found there are headers/controllers that don't actually send a PWM control signal on a 4th pin, but still claim PWM. Turns out they apply PWM to the 12v power supply, turning fans on and off rapidly. Sigh.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

PerrineClostermann posted:

And to complicate PWM, I've found there are headers/controllers that don't actually send a PWM control signal on a 4th pin, but still claim PWM. Turns out they apply PWM to the 12v power supply, turning fans on and off rapidly. Sigh.
To be fair that is actually a totally legitimate way to control speed and is usually better than voltage-based speed control if the fan doesn't have a built-in controller. It's how you control larger motors as well.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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I'm just disappointed about the confusion in terms that has arisen by all of this

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Yeah I agree, there's no reason for it to be such a clusterfuck at all.

Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.


Pillbug

PerrineClostermann posted:

I ended up ordering one of those. To be safe, I'm trying to figure out how much power I can pull from my PSU over a SATA Power connector. It just lists 12v output as a whole, which I hope means I don't need to worry about it at all.


This page indicates 4.5A on each rail, which sounds reasonable but I have no idea how you'd verify it.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

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Eletriarnation posted:

This page indicates 4.5A on each rail, which sounds reasonable but I have no idea how you'd verify it.

Seems like the general specification for a SATA power connector, and I can't imagine a PSU not supplying up to that, so I should be good. My pump can draw around .8-1A through its 4pin header, and I'll only have a few fans on it as well.

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Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


PerrineClostermann posted:

Yeah, I found that strange. PWM 4pin fans have their fourth pin pulled internally to 5v, right?


I ended up ordering one of those. To be safe, I'm trying to figure out how much power I can pull from my PSU over a SATA Power connector. It just lists 12v output as a whole, which I hope means I don't need to worry about it at all.



And to complicate PWM, I've found there are headers/controllers that don't actually send a PWM control signal on a 4th pin, but still claim PWM. Turns out they apply PWM to the 12v power supply, turning fans on and off rapidly. Sigh.

You have a single 12v rail. The only thing you would have to worry about is pulling too much power for the actual wire to start melting, which you wont.

Also if you are running 2.5" drives they run on 5v. But still you have 24a, more than you would ever use for sata power connectors.

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