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Mo0 posted:ive been keeping up via Wikipedia, did they announce it before voting or after the person got booted? After the votes were cast but before they were read. The blue tribe knew about the twist on their re-vote after the first tie. I didn't like that twist. First, holding Tribal Council in front of another tribe is stupid, especially when Australian Jeff was directly exposing alliances like Brooke and Flick to the other side. In the U.S. version, sitting in on another tribe's TC was a reward that had to be won at a challenge. Second, Australian Jeff should have revealed the twist right before the vote rather than after. This way it would have actually felt like a complicated tribe swap instead of acting as a de facto Outcasts twist where they automatically and instantly return to the game without having to do anything. It's unlikely that revealing the twist before the vote would have changed much, but it at least it would have given plausible deniability to the more skilled players down the road. Craig, Andrew, Sue, and Jennah Louise are (unfairly) screwed now if Nick makes it to the swap or merge, whereas if they found out about the twist beforehand they would at least have a chance to come up with a convoluted lie about why they sent Nick to the other tribe. Not only is that version of the twist more fair, it's also more drama-- Nick's confusion about why the vote flipped on him, and a battle of lies and confusion when he reunites with them later is more interesting than a straightforward revenge plot that he did nothing to earn.
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Aug 31, 2016 00:42
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 01:21 |
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While twists like this might make "good drama" in the moment, they hurt the show long term. If you count production letting the red tribe get as close to voting out Kat as possible without actually writing her name down, all 3 tribes have now had someone they tried to vote out immediately re-enter the game. In the long term, this discourages aggressive gameplay and big moves since it's harder to justify backstabbing a big power player if you can't trust that voting them out will actually send them home. ETA: Also "good drama" is not necessarily satisfying. If, during a runaway game of Jeopardy, Alex Trebek automatically bumps the second place player's score before Final Jeopardy to make the match competitive, it might be "good drama" but it's in no way satisfying because it nullifies most of the suspense of the episode and that second place player did nothing to earn that second chance. mancalamania fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 02:06
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(more episode 9 discussion) I think you could argue either wait with Kat/Kristie's decision, mostly because it's unclear when the next merge or swap will be since a season this big is unprecedented on U.S. Survivor. If another swap is only a few rounds away, Kat/Kristie were probably correct to cut their ties with the old Aganoa as soon as possible since they were clearly on the bottom of that group and had essentially no chance of winning the game by sticking with them. Better to cut Rohan now to signal that they are free agents going into the next iteration of these tribes where there will probably be a Vavau vs. Saanapu showdown. On the other hand, if they are stuck with these tribes until a merge at, say, 12, than Kat/Kristie probably made the wrong choice. Vavau will probably be going to the majority of Tribal Councils until the next swap, and their only buffer from being at the very bottom of the tribe is Phoebe. In that case, their only realistic chance for even making the merge are to stumble upon the idol Craig is looking for without having a clue or hope that Andrew makes that move against Craig that he wanted to make in Episode 6. Both options seem somewhat unlikely, and the latter possibility is completely out of their control. It's even more complicated when you remember that Kat/Kristie didn't actually know for sure who was voting for who or who the idol was being played on. Had they both voted Sue but Phoebe and Rohan both voted for Kat, it would have been a 2-2 tie and Kat would have went home on the revote. And they had strong reason to think that exact scenario might happen since (1) Rohan and Phoebe had told Kat they were going to vote her out in old Aganoa, and (2) Rohan DID vote Kat this round for no coherent reason.
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Sep 11, 2016 21:23
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In defense of those who said that Kat was safe in the short-term for voting out Rohan (myself included), Vavau (Andrew in particular?) made a very strange move by targeting Kat instead of Phoebe in Episode 10. Had they tried to keep Kat and Kristie close and voted Phoebe out (and assuming Phoebe didn't play her new idol), then they keep Kat/Kristie close in case there is a swap or merge before they can finish eliminating all of the Aganoa on their tribe. Instead, by voting out Kat, they alienate Kristie and keep Phoebe who has no allegiance to Vavau at all. It also appears that Phoebe has a much stronger social game than either Kat or Kristie, and leaving her in play probably made that vote against Andrew a lot more likely to happen. It's unclear how much of that was the edit, or if Kate/Craig were going to turn on him anyway, but it certainly seems Phoebe was key in turning Kate who then turned Andrew. ETA: It's also surprising that so many of the challenges in these episodes were so physical after the intentionally(?) unbalanced tribe swap. Kat's move to vote out Rohan made sense if Vavau could avoid a few Tribals, but Vavau hasn't really had a chance in any of the challenges in Episode 10 or 11. mancalamania fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 00:54
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obliriovrons posted:I also feel like the way this season has played out will really put the next season of Australian Survivor in a tough spot. As mentioned earlier, the sheer length of the game puts a strain on the people who have been making attempts to play strategically, even if you're not counting the twists, and I think the twists have done a lot to discourage future players from being compelled to make the big moves that can make this such an exciting show. Sure, you've got an opportunity to blindside a close ally and really shake up the balance of power in your tribe, but chances are pretty decent that there just won't be a vote, or that that person will switch to the other tribe and be entirely out of your reach. So what are they left with, a second 55 day season where nobody is particularly willing to do anything for 24 episodes? That doesn't sound great to me. I agree with this, and the worst part is that this is completely avoidable. In both cases of the tribe swaps at Tribal, the twists would have still been entertaining if the players knew about the twist before going into Tribal. There would still be strategy in deciding who to vote off of your tribe knowing that they were going on to a new tribe; in fact it would be new and exciting strategy that we've never really seen play out before! And similarly, in Episode 13, a Tribal where the Vavau members are pleading their case to Brooke is still exciting, especially if they start throwing others under the bus in the process. But misleading the cast into thinking they are voting someone off until the last possible second has really unfairly backfired in the faces of a lot of the big players this season and will have long term effects on the show.
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Sep 21, 2016 04:49
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At this point, even if there is a flip against the majority we will still end up with an unsatisfying winner since Matt, Kristie, and Jenna-Louise have all been varying degrees of stupid or invisible for most of the game. I guess I'm rooting for some convoluted situation where there is a flip and Sam, El, Flick, and Lee all go out back to back but Brooke somehow still sneaks into the Finals through some crazy combination of luck, Immunity wins, and social maneuvering after the alliance collapse. What a weird season.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:07
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 01:21 |
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obliriovrons posted:Don't have a 55-day season and don't have 24 people. I think a vast majority of the problems with this season can be chalked up to how altering the format in this way changes the entire flow of the game. Most of the good game players were voted out fairly early on, the players all seem exhausted, and I'm honestly exhausted with it too. This is certainly part of the problem, but I think the bigger issue was the way they dissolved the 3 tribes into 2. Not only did it create a scenario where one tribe would probably win every challenge, it kept some of the basic tribal lines intact. If they really wanted to do it this way, there should have been a second (random) swap at some point before the merge to mix up the dynamics a bit. It also doesn't help that a big chunk of the minority alliance in the post-merge consisted of people that were all-but-voted-out and saved by a last minute twist (Conner, Kristie, and Nick), so these were not exactly the best opposition to the majority. Fast Luck posted:yeah she should be voted out already but for a fake tribal, and the reason she's been left around now is because she's so quiet they forget about her Imagine the alternate universe where Kristie was voted out last night, and Phoebe was in the final 7 as the sole remaining Vavau. While I don't think that would actually happen, I have to wonder how different this season would have been if that happened, given that a big reason the majority alliance has been so unstoppable is that El and Lee had no ties to the minority alliance besides Kristie who didn't even seem to realize she was in the minority. Phoebe would have been the only one to have a chance of flipping El and Lee and it's easy to imagine a completely different post-merge game if that happened.
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Oct 11, 2016 14:55
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